Screaming Babies at Mass

[centurionguard]

As a parent of now 20 somethings and about to be custodial grandparent to a 10 month old (pray for us all O Lord), I can weigh in a bit.

When my children were little, I was both ‘super conscious’ of their noise as well as ‘less conscious’. Let me explain. In certain social situations (Church, the in-laws, any social setting other than that geared to tiny children) I was ‘hyper conscious’ of their noise level and quick to remove them lest they disturb others.

BUT say at my own home, or at a playground or some place geared to children, I would be ‘less conscious’ because over long experience I knew and accepted a ‘certain level’ of noise was normal for my children. As my own father would cheerfully call to us when we ourselves were young, “Keep it down to a dull roar, kids”.

Now, perhaps for those who have come of age in a time when Church is NOT viewed as a ‘social setting’ or among those who have not been educated themselves to understand that the entire universe is not geared to their children (and by educated I don’t mean formal degree–this relates as much to the high school dropout as well as the Ph.D. candidate). . .they are ‘less conscious’ of their child’s noise.

Furthermore in a society where everything has grown louder and louder and ‘silence’ is nearly unheard of (can’t even go to stores without incessant piped music, and quite frankly, the more the STORES are geared to children the LOUDER the music is), the ‘basic noise level’ of the average child has gone UP.

When I was young, we were expected to keep really, REALLY silent.

When my children were young, they were expected to keep silent but 90% of the time at least a few times they would ‘have’ to speak. So they were always reminded to use ‘indoor’ or ‘quiet’ voices.

Now that the children of these children are young, a ‘quiet’ voice to them would equate to a conversational level of my own children’s time, and probably a rather loud ‘projected’ voice of my parents’ time!

So the ‘screaming baby’ with oblivious parents might be explained in that said parents EXPECT that noise level as ‘normal’ from their child, expect Church to be no more and no LESS accommodating than every other ‘place’ in the universe where they go, not because the parents are stupid and not because they’re lazy, but simply because it’s what they think is acceptable for them, and therefore, should be accepted by everybody else.

When I was young, we were expected to keep really, REALLY silent.

When I was growing up as a young kid you learned to respect and fear two things God and my human Father. This meant behavior in a Catholic Church had to be Angelic.
People respected the Church and when there was a time to speak and when there was a time to stay silent. My parents were strict and I respected them for it.
Today is a far far cry from the late 1950’s and through the 1960’s

 

[Hmgbrd]

This is a difficult subject because often Churches are over accoustic which magnifies sound instead of having the sound disperse as when there is Mass outside. Sometimes I think that some parents have gotten used to the screaming and truly don’t notice it anymore or are just too tired. They should be applauded for making the effort to be there and to expose their children to the Mass. I am of course not speaking of normal baby/young child sounds. Here are some solutions that I suggest:

1. I have seen in one church a room with a plate glass window at the back of the Sanctuary and with piped in sound for the parents with uncontollable children to see and experience while not being a disturbance to others.
2. When children are old enough, parents can “practice mass” at home to practice with their children focusing behavior in a public place so that when they are brought into the environment the chances for success are greater.
3. I believe that there are “baby” masses that the parents can attend just until their child is under control.
4. Perhaps by sitting so that one can make a quick temporary exit in case of disaster might be helpful.

No one likes to be labeled as an intolerant. But tolerance goes both ways. There are older parishoners that are hard of hearing with hearing aids. The technology of these aids are such that a screaming child is a terrible distraction. These older parishoners also have a right to be there. The responsibility in the end lies with the parents.

 

[Defender1]

If a baby gets out of control at mass, what should be done? I’m not talking about goo goo ga ga, I’m talking about Invasion of the Body Snatchers (youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo) and the parents just sit oblivious and do nothing. Obviously the little monster should be taken out of the sanctuary, but…

• Should the priest ignore the disturbance and carry on?
• Should the priest stop in the middle of a sentence and just wait for the parents/ushers/congregation to do something?
• Should the priest halt, look over at them, and tell them point-blank to take the baby out?

The reason I’m asking is because I no longer think it’s worth anyone’s while to patiently expect other people to have the presence of mind, the good breeding, and the social skills to know what to do in a situation like that and to actually do it. It seems to send the message that nothing is wrong, and the offenders end up never getting the hint. I’m not talking about screaming babies where the parents deal with it immediately, I’m talking about parents that are oblivious. I have found that telling people what to do right then and there tends to solve the problem immediately and tends to prevent it in the future, and expecting oblivious parents to read everyone else’s mind just makes the whole situation unpleasant for everyone involved.

Thoughts?

Finally someone said something
here about this . I was too shy

Its a big problem . I belong to a parish with over 10,000 people in it in SC . IT is a big church with two nice size quiet rooms . What agitates me is the fact that these parents(knowing very well that there is a quiet room ) will take there children into the mass and sit in the pew with everyone else .I almost think it is a pride thing for them to do so . They have too much pride to put their children in the quiet room .They feel that its tough luck for everyone else . They figure "These kids are gonna have to grow up sooner or later and accept church so these folks can just learn to deal with it " I remember the late Father Connor (GOd rest his soul) was in the middle of the consecration when a couple in the front pew had a youngin that was moving around making noises interrupting father , so he stopped everything he was doing and just looked at the parents of this child for what seemed like a few minutes and then the parents got the point and he went back to his job . People need to learn to put their loud children in the sound proof rooms and that the mass is far too important for them to bring their loud children into to it .

 

[Defender1]

1. I can’t say I’ve ever seen a baby in the “sanctuary.”
2. The Mass is not a show and every baptized person has a right to be there. That includes babies who act like babies. Those who deliberately disrupt the Mass can and should be removed. Those who disrupt the Mass due their condition, e.g., infancy, may be removed or may be kept in the congregation.
3. Parents have the right to make the decision to remove babies, but are under no obligation to do so. There is no obligation for a child to attend Mass until 7 years of age. However, that does not mean the child - or parent for the child - can simply be excluded. As a baptized member of the body of Christ, that child has a right to be there.
4. The non-parents/caretakers need to act like grown-ups and deal with the vicissitudes of life including tolerating screaming babies if the parents decide to keep the screaming child at Mass.
5. Life is messy.

It is always right for that child to be removed right away when crying occurs . In fact why not put the infant in the cry room to begin with ? It should be a rule in each parish stating that children under a certain age should be in cry room lets say 4? In my church , at a certain point children a certain age to a certain age leave mass to learn some productive things about the gospel teaching while father speaks to the adult congregation . Mass is way too important to be interrupted by children .

 

[Defender1]

Well, when/if I’m a Priest, the way I would handle the situation is to ignore it during Mass, and then after speak with the parents about it, tell them that it distracts people from the Mass (And impairs them from hearing), and then tell them that if it happens again to simply take their baby out until it comes down. I would do the same with smaller children as well.

If I am a priest I am going to send a signal to one of the ushers and he would get a piece of paper from me telling him what I want done in the situation . The note would say 'Ask so and so to step out with the baby until he or she calms down " Mass is way too important to take this situation for granted .

 

[Joan1969]

If a baby gets out of control at mass, what should be done? I’m not talking about goo goo ga ga, I’m talking about Invasion of the Body Snatchers (youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo) and the parents just sit oblivious and do nothing. Obviously the little monster should be taken out of the sanctuary, but…

• Should the priest ignore the disturbance and carry on?
• Should the priest stop in the middle of a sentence and just wait for the parents/ushers/congregation to do something?
• Should the priest halt, look over at them, and tell them point-blank to take the baby out?

The reason I’m asking is because I no longer think it’s worth anyone’s while to patiently expect other people to have the presence of mind, the good breeding, and the social skills to know what to do in a situation like that and to actually do it. It seems to send the message that nothing is wrong, and the offenders end up never getting the hint. I’m not talking about screaming babies where the parents deal with it immediately, I’m talking about parents that are oblivious. I have found that telling people what to do right then and there tends to solve the problem immediately and tends to prevent it in the future, and expecting oblivious parents to read everyone else’s mind just makes the whole situation unpleasant for everyone involved.

Thoughts?

Hi to all,

I would say the first line that any pastor should take would be to clearly communicate expectations to the whole parish so that parents don’t get humiliated. Public humiliation in the name of supposing that the parents “should” know how to handle the situation is seriously insensitive. Different churches and pastors may have different approaches and preferences; the parents may well be following some social rules that they learned in a different place. There’s no substitute for the truly polite reaction, which is to speak up before it’s an embarassment to anyone to do so. If a particular family needs to be addressed, then it should happen privately. Being approached by the usher is not private.

I have kids with autism, and believe me it’s hard to make that judgement call or to have control over the situation at all times. We have no cry room, and the cry rooms I have seen often lead to much worse behavior on the part of kids (including my own); they are free to run, talk and play beyond the age where it’s reasonable. They aren’t the “perfect” solution that some suppose.

If you don’t have young kids, be ready to see things from the parent’s perspective. It’s not so obvious.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I can handle the screaming babies (within reason). To me it’s the music of angels.

Now, when parents just let their 2-5 year olds run wild–that drives me nuts. They act like it is the congragation’s job to baby sit their kids.

 

[Castello]

If a baby gets out of control at mass, what should be done? I’m not talking about goo goo ga ga, I’m talking about Invasion of the Body Snatchers (youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo) and the parents just sit oblivious and do nothing. Obviously the little monster should be taken out of the sanctuary,

Babies are not monsters.

Babies are not to be in the sanctuary during Mass - what kind of priest would permit that? Even baptismal fonts that are “down front” are usually at the side of the sanctuary.

Perhaps you do not actually mean that there are babies in the Sanctuary. Do you mean to say in the nave?

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

If I am a priest I am going to send a signal to one of the ushers and he would get a piece of paper from me telling him what I want done in the situation . The note would say 'Ask so and so to step out with the baby until he or she calms down " Mass is way too important to take this situation for granted .

I think this would be just a tad bit drastic, since usually it only lasts about five minutes. If, for some reason, it lasted for about twenty minutes, I would definitely do something about it, such as making a gesture to an usher, and he would kindly ask the parent(s) to take the baby outside or into the cry room until it calmed down.

 

[ardis3958]

If I am a priest I am going to send a signal to one of the ushers and he would get a piece of paper from me telling him what I want done in the situation . The note would say 'Ask so and so to step out with the baby until he or she calms down " Mass is way too important to take this situation for granted .

I agree mostly but I think a better solution is to have well-trained ushers who will automatically know what to do.

In a big inner-city parish ushers also have to manage the homeless and the insane and probably have to know basic self-defense and CPR, plus where the bathrooms are LOL

 

[Formosus]

If a baby gets out of control at mass, what should be done? I’m not talking about goo goo ga ga, I’m talking about Invasion of the Body Snatchers (youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo) and the parents just sit oblivious and do nothing. **Obviously the little monster **should be taken out of the sanctuary, but…

Obviously this “little monster” is a child of God who deserves to receive the Divine Graces of the Liturgy just as much as you do.

Should parents try to calm their child down? I think so. Is it the congregations job to deny a baby Grace that is found in the Liturgy? I don’t think so. If anything, the priest could discreetly talk to the couple after Liturgy or perhaps a notice should be placed somewhere in the entrance asking parents to keep such things in mind. Personally, I would love to see more infants at my church, crying or not. Infants are the future of our Church and we as a Church should work to expose infants to Christ. Jesus Himself says, let the children come to Him.

As for kids 2-6 etc that someone else mentioned, if they are misbehaving then it is the parents job or the usher’s job to take care of that sort of disturbance. Infants can not be faulted for crying as it is how infants act.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Babies are babies, there is only so much you can do.

If people can’t understand that babies act like babies, then there is something wrong with the grown people. Babies act like babies, and adults should like adults. It means because we’re supposed to know better and understand better, then we should act like it by showing charity and understanding.

I’ve been talking with a mom last Friday about this situation when someone gave her harsh words because her children were misbehaving at Liturgy. She said she stopped going to church for a number of years. Glad that she even made it back today. Most people completely stop, or move to a more understanding congregation. I have family who moved to a Baptist Church just because they have Sunday daycare. Is that what we want to be? The cause of that?

 

[Usige]

As the father of 5 of these horribly despicable “monsters,” I am so heartened by the sheer amount of charity in this thread.

First expecting anyone with small children to immediately banish themselves to a cry room is ridiculous. All people are welcome in the house of the Lord and should not have to separate themselves for your convenience.

I fully agree that parents should remove their children if they are getting out of hand, but on the other hand some people give us dirty looks if our children make a peep. My wife has been scolded for quieting a fussy baby by nursing them when she can’t easily leave because of the end of pew trolls (you know the 2 people that refuse to move from the end of a pew meant for 20 or 30 people and make people crawl over them). “How dare she use her breast for what God intended them for.” Guess what? the little “monsters” never learn to respect the mass if they are always being kicked out. In fact some kids that find mass boring figure it out and try to make disturbances to leave.

Instead of muttering about the monsters perhaps it might help praying to give the parent’s strength and be happy that they are trying to raise their children to be faithful to the Church.

 

[ardis3958]

…perhaps a notice should be placed somewhere in the entrance…

I’m against this but in favor of the ushers doing an intervention instead. Because you can’t just nail a list of all possible offenses on the front door and expect the problems to be solved. (Martin Luther tried that as I remember and it didn’t go over well.) You would have to list

• people whose perfume is so strong it’s a fire hazard,
• clothing that natives in the rainforest would consider immodest
• people talking before mass,
• people talking in church,
• people praying other prayers almost out loud during mass especially after communion,
• people substituting gender-neutral words for every single he, him, his, Father, and Lord
• lovers making out at the sign of peace,
• people with colds sneezing into their hands and then shaking hands,
• people sticking their tongues out while holding their hands out for communion
• people who don’t open their mouths wide enough for communion
• ministers who jam their fingers into your mouth when giving you communion
• keys in your hands for communion,
• people taking communion back with them to the pew or home to someone else or worse
• people leaving after communion
• how to get into a pew when someone is already sitting on the aisle end of it and refuses to slide over,
• how to crawl over people who aren’t going to communion and force you to crawl over them,
• people who don’t know how the communion lines are supposed to work and where to go,
• how to deal with kneelers when there are other people in the pew with you,
• how to shake hands when everybody around you turns to you at the same time and not act like you’re disrespecting anyone,
• how to stay out of everyone’s way if you want to kneel for communion when everybody else is standing,
• how to deal with the person next to you wanting to hold hands for the Our Father
• how to come in late if you have to
• people sneering and smirking at the ushers for the sake of making a statement about the church and money, when they take the collection
• people standing around in the back when there are places to sit
• people changing babies diapers in the pew
• and of course the old cell phone ringer/beeper issues but now also actually talking on the phone during mass
• etc. etc. etc. I could go on, really I could…

So when you walk in the front door a poster like that would say we are all about rules, and that would send the wrong message. And if you have kids, I don’t think you’re going to stand there and read all that.

 

[ardis3958]

As the father of 5 of these horribly despicable “monsters,”

Explain to me how Grover Monster on Sesame Street is horrible and despicable.

 

[Wildkit]

If the crying or behavior is so dispicable, why not offer the mass up to our Lord on behalf of the other people and parents (intercede where necessary) and ask if you could take the child outside for the remainder of the mass? Somehow I would not think a loving gesture would be ignored by our Lord.

 

[MissRose73]

When I was growing up as a young kid you learned to respect and fear two things God and my human Father. This meant behavior in a Catholic Church had to be Angelic.
People respected the Church and when there was a time to speak and when there was a time to stay silent. My parents were strict and I respected them for it.
Today is a far far cry from the late 1950’s and through the 1960’s

It would be nice to return to those days more with the kids who are close to the age of reason and above it behaving themselves at church. Sometimes it takes a stern look to get the attention of a child. Some kids don’t respond to the “look”.

Babies and toddlers I will give more of a break to if the parent is trying to soothe them and then remove them if they won’t calm down.

 

[Hmgbrd]

Lovers making out at the sign of peace??
Changing babies diapers in the pew???

ROTFL

ardis3958 we love you anyway!!!

 

[ardis3958]

Lovers making out at the sign of peace??
Changing babies diapers in the pew???

ROTFL

ardis3958 we love you anyway!!!

???

When you’ve been to as many masses as I have, you get to see it all.

 

[ConstantineTG]

???

When you’ve been to as many masses as I have, you get to see it all.

Depends really where your focus is during Mass