Scriptural basis for praying to saints?

[captainmike]

“i’ll pounce all over this one,” someone says. not so fast. this one will be a little different.

i’m not asking what the basis is for talking to saints. i’m not asking for the basis for asking saints to pray for us.

i’m asking something different.

why do we call talking to saints praying? what’s the basis for that?

oh, sure, there’s the passage in revelation in which the incense is referred to as the “prayers of the saints.” but that’s referring to the saints’ prayers to God, not our “prayers” to the saints.

why can’t we come up with a different word to describe the way we talk to saints?

i often ask my earthly mother to pray to God for me. but i never refer to that as “praying” to my mom to do so.

we catholics are great at coming up with words to distinguish between things. for example, we speak of worship or “dulia” or even “hyperdulia.”

so, don’t say we can’t come up with another word. it wouldn’t be hard to do at all.

and doing so would decrease confusion a lot. whenever a protestant asks me why we “pray” to Mary, i have to say, “it’s not really prayer in the sense that you’re thinking of it. rather, we ask Mary to pray for us to God.”

so, why not call it something different?

honestly, i sometimes think that we like to make our religion seem a lot different from non-Catholic Christian religions. this is one way in which we do so, IMO.

 

[Mintaka]

We use the word “prayer” and “pray” with both saints and God, for the same reason we use the word “petition” with both humans and God. To pray is to ask or request. A petition is a prayer or a request. We can pray God or prithee our true loves, and we can humbly petition Congress or the town council or St. Bob to do stuff for us.

I suppose we could attempt to command God and the saints and our moms to do stuff for us, instead of asking nicely. But it doesn’t tend to work, not with any of the above. Maybe Congress, sometimes.

 

[captainmike]

We use the word “prayer” and “pray” with both saints and God, for the same reason we use the word “petition” with both humans and God. To pray is to ask or request. A petition is a prayer or a request. We can pray God or prithee our true loves, and we can humbly petition Congress or the town council or St. Bob to do stuff for us.

I suppose we could attempt to command God and the saints and our moms to do stuff for us, instead of asking nicely. But it doesn’t tend to work, not with any of the above. Maybe Congress, sometimes.

it unnecessarily causes confusion with our protestant brethren. it would be easy to come up with a word to distinguish between the kind of talking we do to God versus, say, the kind of talking we do to St. Joseph. the communication is as different as the sun is from the moon.

 

[Mintaka]

I think it would be confusing not to call talking to saints “prayer.”

I mean, there has to be a difference between people talking to St. Bob because they’re delusional, versus people talking to St. Bob because they’re religious, versus people talking to St. Bob because they’re telepaths in a science fiction novel.

As it is, a lot of people thinking us talking to saints is no different from mediums talking to dead people or necromancers calling up spirits from the vasty deep.

Also, since our Protestant brethren keep changing their terms and breaking up into ever-smaller congregations, there’s no way you could avoid confusing somebody. It’s for them to worry about confusing us about their tiny obscure doctrines and terminologies.

 

[carolynpetty]

There a difference between prayer and worship.

I can pray to you for something, but only worship God.

 

[pablope]

“i’ll pounce all over this one,” someone says. not so fast. this one will be a little different.

i’m not asking what the basis is for talking

 

[bzkoss236]

We use the word ‘pray’ as it is supposed to be used, meaning “to ask of”. Just as the correct usage of the word ‘gay’ means “joyful” or “merry”. But people have used the word differently over time and bring it to mean something other than its original meaning, such as ‘gay’ now meaning “homosexual”. But pray still means “to ask of”, though the only context our Protestant brethren her it in is in prayer to God as an act of worship. While prayer can and should be used as an act of worship towards God, that is not its only meaning. Just as you can sing as an act of worship towards God, but we don’t say that every time someone sings that they are worshiping. If I sing to you, that doesn’t mean I worship you. So, why should me praying to you mean that I’m worshiping you? It doesn’t.

 

[captainmike]

We use the word ‘pray’ as it is supposed to be used, meaning “to ask of”. Just as the correct usage of the word ‘gay’ means “joyful” or “merry”. But people have used the word differently over time and bring it to mean something other than its original meaning, such as ‘gay’ now meaning “homosexual”. But pray still means “to ask of”, though the only context our Protestant brethren her it in is in prayer to God as an act of worship. While prayer can and should be used as an act of worship towards God, that is not its only meaning. Just as you can sing as an act of worship towards God, but we don’t say that every time someone sings that they are worshiping. If I sing to you, that doesn’t mean I worship you. So, why should me praying to you mean that I’m worshiping you? It doesn’t.

take a look at your signature: “St. Bernard, pray for us!”

now, are you praying to St. Bernard to pray for you to God?

very confusing.

we need a different word.

suggestion:

we Pray to God.

we Petition the Saints to pray for us.

this is how it should be.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I sometimes say “ask the heavenly saints for intercession” depending on the maturity of the person to whom I speak.

 

[bzkoss236]

take a look at your signature: “St. Bernard, pray for us!”

now, are you praying to St. Bernard to pray for you to God?

very confusing.

we need a different word.

suggestion:

we Pray to God.

we Petition the Saints to pray for us.

this is how it should be.

Math and physics can be confusing too, and can be explained using easier or other words, but there are still properly defined words to use.

But I guess it’s a matter of personal preference. You can use a different word that means the same thing.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

take a look at your signature: “St. Bernard, pray for us!”

now, are you praying to St. Bernard to pray for you to God?

very confusing.

we need a different word.

suggestion:

we Pray to God.

we Petition the Saints to pray for us.

this is how it should be.

No, we don’t. We need to stop people hijacking words, narrowing the definition down, and then complaining that the centuries old usage of the original definition is what needs to be changed.

Prayer is not something ‘offered to God alone’. Prayer is petition.

Now, if you want to come up with a word for ‘prayer to God alone’ and use THAT word meaning ‘prayer to God alone’, and allow ‘prayer’ to have its original understanding kept, I’m all for it.

How about “Praydeus”? It gets in a nice Latin word for God (Deus), makes God the ‘object’ of pray, and is only one little extra syllable.

I pray to you to listen to my prayer to make understanding of prayer once more ‘universal’.

I pray to the saints that they in turn offer their prayers and mine to God --a ‘prayDeus!’

 

[bzkoss236]

No, we don’t. We need to stop people hijacking words, narrowing the definition down, and then complaining that the centuries old usage of the original definition is what needs to be changed.

Prayer is not something ‘offered to God alone’. Prayer is petition.

Now, if you want to come up with a word for ‘prayer to God alone’ and use THAT word meaning ‘prayer to God alone’, and allow ‘prayer’ to have its original understanding kept, I’m all for it.

How about “Praydeus”? It gets in a nice Latin word for God (Deus), makes God the ‘object’ of pray, and is only one little extra syllable.

I pray to you to listen to my prayer to make understanding of prayer once more ‘universal’.

I pray to the saints that they in turn offer their prayers and mine to God --a ‘prayDeus!’

:clapping:

 

[thistle]

“i’ll pounce all over this one,” someone says. not so fast. this one will be a little different.

i’m not asking what the basis is for talking to saints. i’m not asking for the basis for asking saints to pray for us.

i’m asking something different.

why do we call talking to saints praying? what’s the basis for that?

oh, sure, there’s the passage in revelation in which the incense is referred to as the “prayers of the saints.” but that’s referring to the saints’ prayers to God, not our “prayers” to the saints.

why can’t we come up with a different word to describe the way we talk to saints?

i often ask my earthly mother to pray to God for me. but i never refer to that as “praying” to my mom to do so.

we catholics are great at coming up with words to distinguish between things. for example, we speak of worship or “dulia” or even “hyperdulia.”

so, don’t say we can’t come up with another word. it wouldn’t be hard to do at all.

and doing so would decrease confusion a lot. whenever a protestant asks me why we “pray” to Mary, i have to say, “it’s not really prayer in the sense that you’re thinking of it. rather, we ask Mary to pray for us to God.”

so, why not call it something different?

honestly, i sometimes think that we like to make our religion seem a lot different from non-Catholic Christian religions. this is one way in which we do so, IMO.

scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

 

[fred_conty]

“CAN” you do this? Open the metal"CAN".
“NO” I won’t. Did you “KNOW” this?
The meat was “LEAN”. “LEAN” on me.
“BE” still. Look at the “BEE”.

Language is confusing if meanings are not understood.
Prayer and pray can be used in different ways. That is just language.

Only a thought.

 

[Ignatius]

i’m not asking what the basis is for talking to saints. i’m not asking for the basis for asking saints to pray for *us.*why do we call talking to saints praying?

The word pray means to ask. The problem is that most people don’t know the English language well any more.

Definition of PRAY

transitive verb
1**:** entreat, implore—often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea <pray be careful>

intransitive verb
1**:** to make a request in a humble manner

Origin of Pray
Middle English, from Anglo-French prier, praer, preier, from Latin precari, from prec-, prex request, prayer; akin to Old High German frāga question, frāgēn to ask, Sanskrit pṛcchati he asksFirst Known Use: 13th century

Related to PRAY
**Synonyms: **appeal (to), beseech, besiege, entreat, impetrate, implore, importune, petition, plead (to), supplicate