scripture and homosexuality

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Frost said:
We do know some of God’s will, which he has revealed to us. It’s called “the Bible”. :rolleyes:
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I’m not sure why you want to bandy words with this guy. He is a homosexual who wants scriptural approval (or at least not condemnation) of his twisted “lifestyle.” He will not find it, but will continue his perversion anyway. Homosexuals CAN change, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but most do not want to.
 
sydcatholic80 said:
Yes Eden, that fact was also discussed. Then someone brought up the possibility of using a condom for hygienic reasons and then continuing the act in the vagina to completion.

Yes, conversations of this detail are occurring on another thread in this forum.

How is this act of sodomy OK with other catholics on the forum?
I was of the understanding that all sodomy was bad (based on Natural Law arguments).

It becomes a slippery slope when there can be exceptions for a different set of circumstances.
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I just don’t understand why it would be appealing anyway. Shouldn’t the fact that you need to use a condom or wash with soap and water afterwards to keep the vagina clean from gastro-intestinal germs be enough to illustrate that it’s “not meant to be”? 🤷
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Feet:

Do you believe in any form of sin?
What IS sin in your book?
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anything that comes against loving god, loving your neighbor as yourself, and loving one another as christ loved us.

natural law is something concocted from the mind of man, and appears to be without any scriptural basis. when one is saying god’s law in referring to this natural law they are really saying my belief system’s law.

any law that seek’s to exclude out of a technicality, without any reference to spirit, is not of the new covenant of christ , therefore not of christ , and therefore not of god.
 
feetxxxl said:
anything that comes against loving god, loving your neighbor as yourself, and loving one another as christ loved us.

natural law is something concocted from the mind of man, and appears to be without any scriptural basis. when one is saying god’s law in referring to this natural law they are really saying my belief system’s law.

any law that seek’s to exclude out of a technicality, without any reference to spirit, is not of the new covenant of christ , therefore not of christ , and therefore not of god.
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And how is it in any way loving God or your neighbour to pretend that homosexual marriage is OK when clearly it has been an unmitigated disaster for HIS institution of marriage in those countries where it has been made legal? Why have you closed your ears to the truth - the statistics - that I’ve given you about homosexual marriage, which show the truth - that to allow it can only lead to ruin?
 
LilyM said:
And how is it in any way loving God or your neighbour to pretend that homosexual marriage is OK when clearly it has been an unmitigated disaster for HIS institution of marriage in those countries where it has been made legal? Why have you closed your ears to the truth - the statistics - that I’ve given you about homosexual marriage, which show the truth - that to allow it can only lead to ruin?
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arent you saying, clearly thru my belief system it is an unmitigated disaster?

beyond a technicality, your view of biology, and yiour devotion to natural law what is your objection.

your concern about marriage being defiled by homosexuals seems a bit superficial when when one views the facts about heterosexual cohabiting trends in the united states

members.aol.com/cohabiting/facts.htm

homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a brother , frienf, counselor, administrator, teacher, etc this indicates spirit.

homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals. out of mutual love, respect, attraction, devotion and trust for a shared committed life. this also indicates spirt.

they worship and hold up christ as their savior with the same devotion, sincerity, and love as heterosexual worshippers. this is an indication and test of spirit.

what is your examination of spirit?
 
You are missing the point.

No one is saying that identifying as a homosexual is wrong, but performing homosexual acts is a sin.

God said go forth and multiply, not go forth and mutually masturbate each other.

Men can love other men. They cannot however be properly married. They can be “married”, but they cannot be Married sacramentally. Marriage is a trinity, like the blessed trinity, the third party being the life that is created as a fruit of the love.

Look, talking about how loving homosexuals are and how much they help in the community and how that justifies their living in the spirit is ********. I give to the homeless, give up my seat on the bus, listen to others, go to church every sunday, love God and defend him when possible, but i still sin. I still masturbate, and think lustful thoughts. I still tell little lies every now and then.

One of the greatest steps i took forward in my journey spiritually was accepting my sinfulness, and moving towards following the laws of God rather than trying to justify my own sin. Accepting our own personal fallibility and weakness breeds humility, and gives the main reason Jesus Christ came down to earth: to live the life of man so that God could relate better to our weakness.

Irrationally arguing and ignoring the arguments of others concerning sins shows spiritual immaturity.

Whether you like it or not, homosexual acts are sinful and selfish in nature.
 
revelations said:
You are missing the point.

No one is saying that identifying as a homosexual is wrong, but performing homosexual acts is a sin.

God said go forth and multiply, not go forth and mutually masturbate each other.

Men can love other men. They cannot however be properly married. They can be “married”, but they cannot be Married sacramentally. Marriage is a trinity, like the blessed trinity, the third party being the life that is created as a fruit of the love.

Look, talking about how loving homosexuals are and how much they help in the community and how that justifies their living in the spirit is ********. I give to the homeless, give up my seat on the bus, listen to others, go to church every sunday, love God and defend him when possible, but i still sin. I still masturbate, and think lustful thoughts. I still tell little lies every now and then.

One of the greatest steps i took forward in my journey spiritually was accepting my sinfulness, and moving towards following the laws of God rather than trying to justify my own sin. Accepting our own personal fallibility and weakness breeds humility, and gives the main reason Jesus Christ came down to earth: to live the life of man so that God could relate better to our weakness.

Whether you like it or not, homosexual acts are sinful and selfish in nature.
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when i say homosexual, i am saying those who live and support homosexual one flesh bonding, the same way that being heterosexual means the same about their own orientation.
 
revelations said:
You are missing the point.

No one is saying that identifying as a homosexual is wrong, but performing homosexual acts is a sin.

God said go forth and multiply, not go forth and mutually masturbate each other.

Men can love other men. They cannot however be properly married. They can be “married”, but they cannot be Married sacramentally. Marriage is a trinity, like the blessed trinity, the third party being the life that is created as a fruit of the love.

Look, talking about how loving homosexuals are and how much they help in the community and how that justifies their living in the spirit is ********. I give to the homeless, give up my seat on the bus, listen to others, go to church every sunday, love God and defend him when possible, but i still sin. I still masturbate, and think lustful thoughts. I still tell little lies every now and then.

One of the greatest steps i took forward in my journey spiritually was accepting my sinfulness, and moving towards following the laws of God rather than trying to justify my own sin. Accepting our own personal fallibility and weakness breeds humility, and gives the main reason Jesus Christ came down to earth: to live the life of man so that God could relate better to our weakness.

Irrationally arguing and ignoring the arguments of others concerning sins shows spiritual immaturity.

Whether you like it or not, homosexual acts are sinful and selfish in nature.
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why do you differentiate between adopted and biological…are not we ourselves adopted?

you dont understand, those gay couples who are doing all those positive things could not do them if the essence of their own relationship including the sexual intimacy was positive and life giving of itself.

could homosexual couples give equal loving nurturing homes for raising children if the essence of their relationship was anything less than a heterosexual marriage?

its your choice to have a belief system that says masterbation is a sin.

what is the spirit of masterbation that it comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself?

agreed so how does the spirit of homosexuality come against loving ones neighbor as oneself?
 
feetxxxl said:
why do you differentiate between adopted and biological…are not we ourselves adopted?

you dont understand, those gay couples who are doing all those positive things could not do them if the essence of their own relationship including the sexual intimacy was positive and life giving of itself.

could homosexual couples give equal loving nurturing homes for raising children if the essence of their relationship was anything less than a heterosexual marriage?

its your choice to have a belief system that says masterbation is a sin.

what is the spirit of masterbation that it comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself?

agreed so how does the spirit of homosexuality come against loving ones neighbor as oneself?
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Hey mate, sinners do some positive things. Judas was a good treasurer. Adulterers sometimes raise good children. Hitler hated cruelty to animals and made the trains run on time, Mussolini was very good to his son-in-law apparently. Mao Zedong loved his last wife dearly and was very good to her.

Saying that homosexuals do some good things, even within their relationships, doesn’t negate the sinfulness of the homosexual act. It is totally irrelevant to the sinfulness or otherwise of that one act. Even satan can appear as an angel of light, so even evil can appear to at least some degree as good - most of us don’t do sins because they are blatantly or obviously sinful or evil, most of us do them under the delusion that they are good in some way.

And how could homosexual marriages break up at a rate 50% higher than heterosexual if their spirit was exactly the same as the spirit of heterosexual marriages, hmmm? It isn’t, and to think otherwise is a delusion. But you obviously don’t believe that there is even such a thing as sexual sin, nor that there is any moral code outside the one you choose to concoct out of thin air for yourself.
 
feetxxxl said:
why do you differentiate between adopted and biological…are not we ourselves adopted?

you dont understand, those gay couples who are doing all those positive things could not do them if the essence of their own relationship including the sexual intimacy was positive and life giving of itself.

could homosexual couples give equal loving nurturing homes for raising children if the essence of their relationship was anything less than a heterosexual marriage?

its your choice to have a belief system that says masterbation is a sin.

what is the spirit of masterbation that it comes against loving ones neighbor as oneself?

agreed so how does the spirit of homosexuality come against loving ones neighbor as oneself?
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Adultery - having sex with someone other than your spouse. Masturbation - having sex with yourself. Adultery - sinful, since you are clearly lacking in love for your spouse to commit it, you’re ignoring God’s design that you ‘become one flesh’ with your spouse. Masturbation - a form of adultery, similarly lacking in love for your spouse or future spouse, since with them alone you must ‘become one flesh’ in a sexual way.
 
Frost said:
God has revealed to us what he has seen fit. And in this revelation he says that homosexual relations is a sin. Mind of God or not, I don’t think he would lie to us. Do you?
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this has already been discussed as to whether scripture says its a sin…how do the words in scripture actually say specifically that homosexuality is a sin? we all know the verses. see my opening statement page 1
 
LilyM said:
Hey mate, sinners do some positive things. Judas was a good treasurer. Adulterers sometimes raise good children. Hitler hated cruelty to animals and made the trains run on time, Mussolini was very good to his son-in-law apparently. Mao Zedong loved his last wife dearly and was very good to her.

Saying that homosexuals do some good things, even within their relationships, doesn’t negate the sinfulness of the homosexual act. It is totally irrelevant to the sinfulness or otherwise of that one act. Even satan can appear as an angel of light, so even evil can appear to at least some degree as good - most of us don’t do sins because they are blatantly or obviously sinful or evil, most of us do them under the delusion that they are good in some way.

And how could homosexual marriages break up at a rate 50% higher than heterosexual if their spirit was exactly the same as the spirit of heterosexual marriages, hmmm? It isn’t, and to think otherwise is a delusion. But you obviously don’t believe that there is even such a thing as sexual sin, nor that there is any moral code outside the one you choose to concoct out of thin air for yourself.
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how can you equate having an affection for something, with living 24/7 having to raise and nurture another human being and your support group is another person who you also have a 24/7 existence with. whom you go to bed with and get up with everyday and have sexual intimacy with.

this is called a family.
 
feetxxxl said:
how can you equate having an affection for something, with living 24/7 having to raise and nurture another human being and your support group is another person who you also have a 24/7 existence with. whom you go to bed with and get up with everyday and have sexual intimacy with.

this is called a family.
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Of course homosexual couples have affection and sex and 24/7 living together - so do adulterous couples, so do fathers who sleep with their daughters and brothers who sleep with their sisters. Or so they will say - and even believe. What none of these have is a real family. Neither do they have God’s blessing on what they do.
 
feetxxxl said:
this has already been discussed as to whether scripture says its a sin…how do the words in scripture actually say specifically that homosexuality is a sin? we all know the verses. see my opening statement page 1
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In your opening statement you do not present any arguments. Please explain why you think 1 Cor, Tim and Romans are not relevant.
 
Feet,

If you can’t control your sexual enery, then it’s best to get married (to a woman) as Paul said. However, he also says that being single is best, because you can devote all your energy to God.
You might try directing your energy toward God, instead of to homosexual acts. You will be amazed how much more satisfying it is. Sex is not supposed to be used for debauched pleasure. Homosexual acts are anti-nature, and definitely anti-God.
 
Frost said:
In your opening statement you do not present any arguments. Please explain why you think 1 Cor, Tim and Romans are not relevant.
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im not sure what you are asking? explain how the words say otherwise.
 
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