Scripture: What's myth and what's history?

[John_oxios]

John,

PLEASE read what is actually posted, and not what you THINK was posted. Yes, history, But “history” is not a mathematical process. I hope that the opinions and explanations that you have been given will assist you to understand the Holy Scriptures even better than you have in the past.

God bless you.

 Hello PeterC,
                   They're enlightening, but that Alfred North Whitehead was a Protestant, and it seems to me he was a believer in evolution along the line of Herbert Spencer, who developed the philosophical theory that gave Darwin's theory with all its holes credibility. Spencer said, Space, matter, force, motion and time, that the more we come to know of these things, they can be redefined (paraphrased).

But as Vernon J.McGee wil say, it took forty yrs. of Herbert Spencer’s life to come to that conclusion,Only to afirm what God gave us that in the first few vss in 1st Genesis, In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the Earth (matter) while a wind (force) moved (Motion)over the waters."

so yes there is nothing new under the sun. Even though we have God’s word, man has fallen pre to the same sin for six to eight thousand yrs. History doesn’t repeat itself… but it rhymes.
God bless,
John

 

[PeterClatworthy]

John. Please do not insult our God given intelligence. Jonah and the Whale is clearly not a historical fact. Let us not open up the Holy Scriptures to ridicule.

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Hello PeterC.
This IS fun to me!!!
As iron sharpens Iron! Been in the trench’s defending my Faith, as a Catholic Deacon who introduced me to Apologetics once told me, You’re going to miss this, He’s was right. I’ve been doing this on line since 2001, try www.studylightforums.org, and a few other sites, having trouble logging on to the Studylight site since I got this Mac several weeks ago though.

I enjoy my job, and I am pleased that you do too.

In the trenches? That pre-supposes that you are fighting some kind of war. Just because someone is not a Roman Catholic does not mean that he or she is automatically fighting you. I, for one, am extremely interested in your views, and the views of others.

In my case, I am here for a reason. To try to answer questions about Freemasonry per se and to provide information in order that you, and your Church may make more informed decisions in the future.

That entails questioning statements and opinions that may be expressed here without the level of knowledge that is necessary for it to make sense.

That is not fighting the Catholic Church. It is an effort to inform the Catholic Church. Its policies are its business. I can only offer free advice, if I am allowed, based upon a wealth of knowledge and experience and I hope that people here find it both informative and useful.

While I am here I will also try to protect this forum from statements made by others that are biased, omit historical fact deliberately or otherwise, give contrary construction, and divert attention in order to deceive, misinform, mislead, and misrepresent.

That being said, I acknowledge that I am a guest here, and rely on the forum’s kindness, patience, courtesy and tolerance.

 

[Pete_Holter]

John. Please do not insult our God given intelligence. Jonah and the Whale is clearly not a historical fact. Let us not open up the Holy Scriptures to ridicule.

Hi Peter!

Did you know that we discussed Jonah on this thread beginning at Post 138? Do you think that Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, Jerome, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius, Augustine, and others were insulting us and opening up the Scriptures to ridicule?

“Let him, therefore, who proposes to inquire why the prophet Jonah was three days in the capacious belly of a sea monster, begin by dismissing doubts as to the fact itself; for this did actually occur” (Letter 102, To Deogratias).

Your brother in Christ,
Pete

 

[John_oxios]

I enjoy my job, and I am pleased that you do too.

In the trenches? That pre-supposes that you are fighting some kind of war. Just because someone is not a Roman Catholic does not mean that he or she is automatically fighting you. I, for one, am extremely interested in your views, and the views of others.

In my case, I am here for a reason. To try to answer questions about Freemasonry per se and to provide information in order that you, and your Church may make more informed decisions in the future.
That entails questioning statements and opinions that may be expressed here without the level of knowledge that is necessary for it to make sense.
That is not fighting the Catholic Church. It is an effort to inform the Catholic Church. Its policies are its business. I can only offer free advice, if I am allowed, based upon a wealth of knowledge and experience and I hope that people here find it both informative and useful.
While I am here I will also try to protect this forum from statements made by others that are biased, omit historical fact deliberately or otherwise, give contrary construction, and divert attention in order to deceive, misinform, mislead, and misrepresent.

That being said, I acknowledge that I am a guest here, and rely on the forum’s kindness, patience, courtesy and tolerance.

Hello PeterC,
Maybe it doesn’t happen where you are, but according to Protestants, Baptists, Jehovah Witnesses(Who will knock on your door once a month), 7th day Adventist,Muslims, the ‘Five per-centers’ and anyone who can get their hands on a Chick web comic… Catholics are not saved, they cal Rome the whore of Babylon, idloators, Necromancer so and so on… even the guys who stand on the soapbox/buckets at the beach or on corners… only know what they’ve been taught about the Catholic Church… most Catholics do not understand where these guys are coming from or they get twisted even pulled away from the faith. In the Trenches? Done some time in Prison… where because you are Catholic, people feel the need to convert you, by attacking you with our own scriptures and practices… ex-Catholics are the worst…and even Catholics will disagree with our practices (i.e. You). It is the Cross by which we are saved, by which we are partakers in Divine Nature,See 2Peter1:4) Every Sunday, or daily Mass) Through the knowledge of Christ Jesus (1Peter 1:3).
“Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ” ( St. Jerome).
I haven’t been doing this all my life, I haven’t been doing this for forty yrs… I had a rift with God at an early teens, I grew up with a punishing God(?) I came back seeking God through 12 step programs, and then Protestant bible studies, It wasn’t until late 2000 a Catholic deacon invited me back to Church, by saying, "You use to be Catholic? I want to see you @ Mass on Sunday did I step back in Church other than for a funeral or a wedding. Now this deacon did a bible study, whoa a Catholic Bible Study unheard of ?.. funny thing was I was more familiar with the bible than he was…eventually he was replace with Deacon John Levison,Ellensburgh, N.Y. who introduced me to Catholic apologists Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, Envoy Magazine, I read S.Hahn’s experience in his book “A Father Who Keeps His Promises” the essence of what he said, was, "First time @ a Mass he sat in the Back to see what it was about, with his bible, he then realized he was living the book of Revelations @ the Mass, all the angels and saints were there, the altar and the Lamb of God, were being celebrated, he wouldn’t stand, or kneel, then the priest raised the Eucharist and said, This is the Lamb of God… and Scott said he couldn’t help but kneel and say “My Lord and my God.” and that is what brought me Back, it took S. Hahn 1yr to convert he planned to do it over five… but he couldn’t keep away, because whan you realize a truth and don’t follow it…that’s disobedience to it.
So I’ve been soaking in the Catholic Church ever since, I know everything we do IS Biblical, and i can show you! I do RCIA and I’ve helped many a Protestant and Jews convert to our faith by understanding theirs, Protestants also have a different language… i.e the same words with different meanings, also preconceived notions about
the RCC, mainly because they have been lied to about it! I know I sat in those very same seats and heard the lies, being of Catholic Background I would ask the pastor, 'I don’t remember it like that? and investigate what he said, a Baptist Pastor confronted, (knowing my background) I brought a CCC with me and tried to show him what the catholic Church really taught… he wouldn’t look at, he simply turned his head away, needless to say I never attended his service again, I did go to his Bible studies though.

The Catholic Church is not at war, our doors are always open, however, we do need to learn how to defend our beliefs against those who will try to bamboozle our members into there’s. A Baptist believes parts of the N.T. were added in, by the RCC, to promote our theology, dogmas, beliefs… so they don’t pay atention sections to John, won’t even discuss them! (My experience). At a local street fair, the Presbyterians pull out a table and pretend to tell us all about the Catholic Church we talk for hrs. I leave them twisted by their own falsehoods, they still try to convert me and a few other ‘Bible’ Catholics.

I am here and other forums to learn and understand and to protect our faith against Gossip, I am not a College Grad, I am a tractor trailer driver, who did not pick up a bible til 1998, and after reading the book “The Great Lion of God,” by Taylor Caldwell, a fire suddenly burned in my heart for more scripture… friends of mine were worried I was studying to be a rabbi from the amount of time I was reading and studying the hebrew Scriptures.

God bless,
John

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Right. Sounds complicated. Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on our doors here in the UK, but to be fair I have never heard them use such vehement language as you suggest. I have come across the “Exclusive Brethren” and I found them to be somewhat offensive.

I am afraid that America seems to be a very aggressive and intolerant nation nowadays.

I am happy that you are happy being a Roman Catholic and I wish you well. I hope that you have found what you are looking for.

And as I said right from the beginning if you want to believe that the legend of Jonah and the Whale actually happened, then that makes absolutely no difference to me because I accept legend as necessary and concomitant with the other elements that define “history”.

I probably won’t swim in the sea in the future, just in case. :ehh:

 

[juliamajor]

ceilede.co.uk/ seems like syncretism

 

[PeterClatworthy]

ceilede.co.uk/ seems like syncretism

Yes it does doesn’t it? They do say that that they are a modern version of the original Céli Dé with more of an emphasis on the pre-Christian Druidism. I believe that it was started, in Scotland about 30 years ago.

 

[adriancombe]

There’s a good treatment of the OP’s question here:

catholicintl.com/catholicissues/ciresi.htm

 

[John_oxios]

Right. Sounds complicated. Yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses knock on our doors here in the UK, but to be fair I have never heard them use such vehement language as you suggest. I have come across the “Exclusive Brethren” and I found them to be somewhat offensive.

I am happy that you are happy being a Roman Catholic and I wish you well. I hope that you have found what you are looking for.

And as I said right from the beginning if you want to believe that the legend of Jonah and the Whale actually happened, then that makes absolutely no difference to me because I accept legend as necessary and concomitant with the other elements that define “history”.

I probably won’t swim in the sea in the future, just in case. :ehh:

The Point is Jesus affirms the Story of Jonah, the Jews in their commentary also affirm the 'Story’of Jonah…although hard for non believers to believers (i.e. your historians) If you let them away parts of the Bible where do you draw the line?
After Leviathan swallowed Jonah his purpose was fulfilled and not seen again!
Swim all you want just watch out for sharks and man-o- war fish!

Now as far as ‘J.W’s’ go they all use the same patter when they knock on your door, they have books lines on how to approach people after knocking on their doors… Ever hear a J.W. take out a KJV, and read 1John 5:8 ?

1Jo 5:8 “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

then they’l tell you its not on any of the ancient Mss. and that it was added in!
and then in aghast many people will ask what else is added in… and then they have your ear and attention.
Fact is their correct, But you won’t find it in a Catholic bible, it may be added in the footnote.
How did it get there? The KJV authors had a copy of Erasnus’ Textus Receptus… (the latin translated back to Greek and Hebrew) By Erasmus,himself.He didn’t have access to ancient MSS… but he worked with what he had… so a congregation of Scholar insisted that Erasmus add that vs in… Erasmus said I can’t find it any of the available Mss I have so show me one… they showed Erasnus the verse, but it is said they copied a mss and added it in themselves.
The Truth is a Priscillian, who was a staunch Trinitarian added it into his Vulgate, was later corrected by the Church, and his Vulgates were destroyed, the KJV, and Erasmus’ associates were wrong for including it in. The real truth is Erasmus, never thought his textus Receptus would be held up to so high a regard as The ultimate word of God that the KJV only-ists insist it is.

How many people would dig that deep to see how it got in the Bible?? People think at times I’m a little over zealous.

I’ve had as many as ten J.w.'s at my table, first they brought the elder to wrestle with me, and then some more, and eventually they would come to my door and we would red scriptures and discuss them without trying to convert one another, after all I can bring you faith , I cannot convert anyone, that’s the Holy Spirit’s job.

I can only :

Pe 3:15
" [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in
Christ…

The Bible as far as I am concerned Is God’s word, I believe it, Who am I to say, I can’t believe in utter such nonsense as a great fish swallowing a disobedient prophet of God?
When I was a child, heck I believed in Pinocchio!!!
God bless,
John

 

[John_oxios]

John,

First of all, where did I say in any of my postings that I did not believe in the birth death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ?

Secondly, what do you mean exactly by a “feel good” religion please, so that I might give you a sensible answer? Do you not feel good about your religion?

For instance, do your female parishioners still cover their heads when worshipping Our Lord, as required by the Word of God in the Holy Bible, or have you changed the rules to make them feel good? That is what I call “anything goes”.

Sorry PeterC,

                Right off your web Page:

JOINING A CÉILE DÉ GROUP - AND THE MINIMUM COMMITMENT LEVEL FOR MEMBERSHIP

If you are new to Céile Dé, we want you to feel welcome and want you to have the opportunity to get a good sense of what both our Céile Dé groups and the aims of the tradition generally are about, so that you can be sure that Céile Dé offers a path that feels right for you.

Web Page:
ceilede.co.uk/faq.aspx
5th box,

I'm felling beter already!!!

Show me that anywhere in the RC Catechism? To Join our Church you spend 7 to 8 months learning about Catholicism, and before you receive any of the sacraments, you Vow to believe in ALL the teachings of the Catholic Church, NO EXCEPTIONS!!!
If you don’t fully understand them than we ask you to pray… ask for guidance until you do

As far as the age of the Order?

A Jehovah witness will tll you Abel in Gen. 4 was the first ‘witness’ Yet Charles Tazz Russel their founder was fiirst an Adventist,
His prophecies have yet to ring true… people still follow his religion though:

Well, in all fairness, lets take a look at how the Watchtower Society began its journey! Charles Tazz Russel started Zion’s Watchtower! He claimed that Christ return would be 1914. How did he come to this conclusion? He took a meassurement inside of a pyramid! His own wife said he was crazy, and the embarassing pyramid shaped head stone, is a reminder of his “prediction”.​

geocities.com/paulblizard/russell.html

One of the strangest “revelations” from the pyramids was his calculated date of 1914. The date was based on his measurements of the interior passageways of the pyramids. He said that 1914 would be the end of the world and God had revealed it to him exclusively. However,
when his 1914 date for the end of the world failed, he tried to cover his tracks. The calulations were first printed in
1897 where he stated: “…this measurement is 3416 inches, symbolizing 3416 years… This calculation shows
A.D. 1874 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble…” (Thy Kingdom Come, Series III, p. 342, 1897 edition) Then in the 1916 edition it was changed to read: “We find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years…This calculation shows
that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble…” Russell’s pyramid actually grew 41 inches in 19 years!

BillyGraham predicted the earth will end 1950 or 52? again in the 70’s, in 1990 he stated the Earth will not be around too much Longer… People still folow him?

Martin Luther, a scholar for sure at least predicted the end of the World 1752? he was smart enough to pick a date after his death! People still follow His teaching/ theology through Melancthon!

I’m not crazy about wikipedia as a ref. but this will do:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_MelanchthonPhilipp Melanchthon (born Philipp Schwartzerd) (February 16, 1497 – April 19, 1560) was a German reformer, collaborator with Martin Luther, the first systematic theologian of the Protestant Reformation, intellectual leader of the Lutheran Reformation, and an influential designer of educational systems. He stands next to Luther and Calvin as a reformer, theologian, and molder of Protestantism. As much as Luther, he is the primary founder of Lutheranism[1] The point is everyone who starts a religion will claim some form of ancient beginning?

Melanchthon made the distinction between law and gospel the central formula for Lutheran evangelical insight. By the “law” he meant the Papacy and rigid rituals controlled by priests; the “gospel” meant an individual directly confronting Christ through Bible reading, hymns and prayer

Its easy for a group or sect to write their own History, all you have to do is find someone to believe it!!!

Nobody, But the Catholic Church can trace its roots back to Christ… That’s the story and I’m stickin’ to it:knight2:

God Bless,
John

 

[John_oxios]

Its easy for a group or sect to write their own History, all you have to do is find someone to believe it!!!

Nobody, But the Catholic Church can trace its roots back to Christ… That’s the story and I’m stickin’ to it:knight2:

“To be steeped in Church history, is to cease to be protestant” (Cardinal Neuman)

"All roads lead to Rome’ (St. Augustine)

The Catholic Church believes, if you 're in a Christ based religion that that is a good start,
but if you seek Him diligently, eventually you will become Catholic!

Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, SubSection 3, Heading 4

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions **as "a preparation for the Gospel **and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.

//www.kofc.org/un/catechism/search.action

God Bless,
John

 

[John_oxios]

There’s a good treatment of the OP’s question here:

catholicintl.com/catholicissues/ciresi.htm

Thanks for this, The last paragraph:

Conclusion

Divine Revelation and “myth” are irreconcilable.

The Bible mentions “myth” in a negative light.

Tradition, via the Church Fathers, criticizes the term and concept of "myth."

The Magisterium of the Catholic Church, in numerous official pronouncements, has not employed in a positive way the term or concept of “myth.”

"Myth" has a place in secular literature, but no home in the Catholic Faith.

Salvatore J. Ciresi is a part-time faculty member of Christendom College’s Graduate School and a full-time civilian employee for the U.S. military. He resides with his wife and children in Spotsylvania, Virginia, where he directs the St. Jerome Biblical Guild.

 

[John_oxios]

John. Please do not insult our God given intelligence. Jonah and the Whale is clearly not a historical fact. Let us not open up the Holy Scriptures to ridicule.

Jesus said it, I believe it!!

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Nobody, But the Catholic Church can trace its roots back to Christ… That’s the story and I’m stickin’ to it:knight2:

God Bless,
John

And may God bless you too John, I am sure that he will. I agree, totally, that the Roman Catholic Church traces its roots back to Jesus our Saviour as does the Celtic Christian Church.

May I take this opportunity to wish you and yours, also ALL other contributors to this forum a very happy and prosperous New Year.

 

[John_oxios]

In my case, I am here for a reason. To try to answer questions about Freemasonry per se and to provide information in order that you, and your Church may make more informed decisions in the future.

That entails questioning statements and opinions that may be expressed here without the level of knowledge that is necessary for it to make sense.

While I am here I will also try to protect this forum from statements made by others that are biased, omit historical fact deliberately or otherwise, give contrary construction, and divert attention in order to deceive, misinform, mislead, and misrepresent.

That being said, I acknowledge that I am a guest here, and rely on the forum’s kindness, patience, courtesy and tolerance.

kofc.org/un/eb/en/resources/cis/CIS371.pdf

Freemasons:
A fraternal order that originated in London in 1717 with the formation of the first Grand Lodge of Freemasons. From England, the order spread to Europe and elsewhere. Its principles and basic rituals embody a naturalistic religion, active participation in which is incompatible with Christian faith and practice. Grand Orient Freemasonry, developed in Latin countries, is atheistic, irreligious and anticlerical. In some places, Freemasonry has been regarded as subversive of the state; **in Catholic quarters, it has been considered hostile to the Church and its doctrine. **
In the United States, Freemasonry has been widely regarded as a fraternal and philanthropic order. For serious doctrinal and pastoral reasons, Catholics were forbidden to join the Freemasons under penalty of excommunication, according to church law before 1983. Eight different popes in 17 different pronouncements, and at least six different local councils, condemned Freemasonry.
The first condemnation was made by Clement XII in 1738. Eastern Orthodox and many Protestant bodies have also opposed the order. In the U.S., there was some easing of the ban against Masonic membership by Catholics in view of a letter written in 1974 by Cardinal Franjo Seper, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The letter was interpreted to mean that Catholics might join Masonic lodges which were not anti-Catholic. This was called erroneous in a declaration issued by the Doctrinal Congregation Feb. 17, 1981.
**The prohibition against Masonic membership was restated in a declaration issued by the Doctrinal Congregation Nov. 26, 1983, with the approval of Pope John Paul II, as follows. **
“The Church’s negative position on Masonic associations remains unaltered, since their principles have always been regarded as irreconcilable with the Church’s doctrine.
Hence, joining them remains prohibited by the Church. Catholics enrolled in Masonic associations are involved in serious sin and may not approach Holy Communion. Local ecclesiastical authorities do not have the faculty to pronounce a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which might include a diminution of the above- mentioned judgment.” This latest declaration, like the revised Code of Canon Law, does not include a penalty of excommunication for Catholics who join the Masons. Local bishops are not authorized to grant dispensations from the prohibition. The foregoing strictures against Masonic membership by Catholics were reiterated in a report by the Committee for Pastoral Research and Practice, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, released through Catholic News Service June 7, 1985

.

So in Celi De, its o-kay to be a FreeMason, but its not o-kay for women to go to Mass or pray without veils?

God bless you and have a blesses NEW YEAR,

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Thank you for posting this John.

It makes it quite clear that any condemnation by the Catholic Church is specifically targeted at the Moderns form of freemasonry that was self-started in 1717 and constituted in 1723, The Grand Lodge of London, “a product of the Enlightenment”.

"Who will show me the Mother Lodge? Those of London we have discovered to be self-erected in 1716. Ask for their archives. They tell you they were burnt. They have nothing but the wretched sophistication of the Englishman Anderson and the Frenchman Desagulliers. (SOURCE: Freemasonry - Its Pretensions Exposed In Faithful Extracts Of Its Standard Authors, 1828)

The Free Masonrie of the Grand Lodge of All England IS the Holy Priestly Order of the Céli Dé .

“The Druidical College of Derry was converted into a Culdee Monastery. About the year 561 Columba and twelve companions left Ireland to build the Monastery of Icolmkill (sic Iona), and Masonic legend assigns the lectures of Harodim to this Monastery; they founded Colleges at Govan and Kilwinning.” (SOURCE: The Druids and the Politics of Celtic Scholarship, John Toland: 1670-1722)

“Icolmkill - An island situated near the Hebrides, to the south; once the seat of the Order of the Culdees, and containing the ruins of a monastery of St Columba, founded A.D. 565. It was here, according to tradition, that the rite of Heredom originated.” (SOURCE: The Royal Masonic Cyclopaedia of History, Rites, Symbolism, and Biography, published by J.W. Bolton, Kenneth R.H. MacKenzie: New York, 1877)

“From a Masonic document now in my possession, I can prove that no very long time ago the Culdees of York were Freemasons, that they constituted the Grand Lodge of England, and that they held their meetings in the Crypt under the great Cathedral of that city. The circular chapter-house did very well for ordinary business, but the Secret Mysteries were carried on in the crypts. The Lodge, which was the Grand Lodge of All England, had been held under the Cathedral in the Crypt at York.” (SOURCE: p.718, Anacalypsis Vol. 1, Godfrey Higgins: 1833-1836.)

"He affirms that he can prove this from a manuscript then in his possession. “I searched,” he says, "the Masonic records in London, and I found a document which upon the face of it seemed to shew that the GRAND LODGE of all England had been held under the Cathedral in the Crypt of York.

"The documents were given me by W. Blanchard Esq., and transferred by me to the person who now possesses them, and with whom they ought most properly to be placed, His Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex. (SOURCE: pp. 50 & 51, Secret Traditions in Freemasonry, published by Rebman Limited, Arthur Edward Waite: London 1911)

"In England they (sic Culdees) occur nowhere but at St Peter’s, in York, as mentioned above. At York, Athelstane found them, and gave them his friendship and protection. It is said that he employed them in building churches, convents and castles. Archbishop Usher and others treat of this subject, but the old writers on the papal side of the question are said to have purposely avoided making mention of the Culdees. This sect was first spoken of in connection with the Masonic society by Ignatius Aurelius Fessler, a distinguished Masonic writer of Germany. (SOURCE: p.369, Masonic Eclectic or Gleanings from the Harvest Field of Masonic Literature Part 2, John W. Simons: 1860)

"This church and the civilization introduced by the Romans were swept away by the Picts and Saxons, and the members, called Culdees, were compelled to hide in the wilderness of Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and the small islands between Great Britain and Ireland; chiefly in Anglesey and Iona, where they preserved their Apostolic institutions, which were modeled after the most ancient Christian church, which, it is well known, was the secret or Masonic form.

Now it is only in such districts as Druidism is known to have lingered in for generations that hereditary priestly descent in the Christian Church has been observed. In Brittany it prevailed until it was abolished by Hildebert, Archbishop of Tours, in 1127. At the end of that century Giraldus Cambrensis complains of it as a disgrace to Wales that sons should follow their fathers in the priestly office. Moreover, it is precisely in these localities where Druidism had been most strongly entrenched that we find the largest Culdee settlements. At Ripon and York they dwelt and flourished, in the time of Bede, and they worshipped at the Church of St. Peter in the latter city so late as the year 936. *(SOURCE: The Mysteries of Britain: Secret Rites and Traditions of Ancient Britain Restored: 1905) *

Pure history.

 

[John_oxios]

=PeterClatworthy;6117697]Thank you for posting this John.

It makes it quite clear that any condemnation by the Catholic Church is specifically targeted at the Moderns form of freemasonry that was self-started in 1717 and constituted in 1723, The Grand Lodge of London, “a product of the Enlightenment”.

The** Free Masonrie **of the Grand Lodge of All England IS the Holy **Priestly Order of the Céli Dé **

.

Hello PeterC,
:yup: kpeople: Well that’s two reasons I can’t subscribe to it! :tiphat:

God bless,
John

 

[PeterClatworthy]

.

Hello PeterC,
:yup: kpeople: Well that’s two reasons I can’t subscribe to it! :tiphat:

God bless,
John

John,

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

It was good enough for St Columba:

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and it was good enough for St Patrick.

 

[John_oxios]

John,

It was good enough for St Columba:
and it was good enough for St Patrick.

Hello PeterC
Hello, So say you, However I doubt very much he was into:

 Pure and genuine Anglo-Saxon Free Masonrie is religious.  Its religion has **its roots firmly planted in the pre-Davidic Ancient Mysteries**.  As the servants of God, **we hold a true belief in God,** the life of everything, the source of all beings, the preserver of all things, and the immortality of the soul

.

Anybody can paint a picture, draw up a stain glass window, write a book and call it the gospel according to___ it doesn’t make it truth!

Is this a true belief outside the Church? Pre-Davidic mysteries? In Christ any thing hidden will be revealed through His Church. What can freemasons give you that ya can’t get in Christ’s Church?
Pre-Davidic ancient mysteries?? C’mon, how can you prove what you say about these is true? Like I said you just rewrite what you want and the members have to adhere to your so-called truths?

The Jews don’t need the written Law, Because when you accept Christ, the law is written on our hearts and we our Guided by Christ’s Church and the Holy Spirit.
Where does it say St. Patrick accepted your freemason teachings?

Gal 2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me.

Gal 2:2 I went up by revelation; and I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain.

3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not compelled to be circumcised, though he was a Greek.

4 But because of false brethren secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage–
5 to them we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.

Eph 1:9 For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ
10 as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him, according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will,
12 we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of his glory.
13 In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
:16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,

Isn’t it the Church empowered to bind and loose? (forbid and permit) and as that power what it binds or permits is bound or permitted in Heaven!! Show me freeMasonary in the Gospels? Paul’s writings? In any of the Epistles? Revelations?

Grace comes at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 1:7 “so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ”
pre davidic mysteries of ??? Free masonary______ I dun__no know!!!

Why good is freemasonary? Better to spend your time as fashion police in your Local Church, if the Gospel, and the Bible is read entirely… ‘Faith comes by hearing’ the Words of Jesus Christ,