SDA Beliefs

[benidict]

He musted be resurrected thou, otherwise wouldnt be with Jesus. Can you explain more about that idea tha the ark of covenant, and revelation poinrt to something special happening to Mary? It sounds interesting, Ta

now now rexpi. usually you do not have the trouble spelling like i do. are you drinking fosters??? just kidding. i know you wouldnt do that. also the cockateel is my favorite bird for a pet. very affectionate. is it true you have them wild tin austrailia. i would love to see a whole bunch of them together. Peace

 

[po18guy]

I was hoping this thread was a little fresher. Much of SDA beliefs are consistent with mainline protestantism (and even Catholicism), but their fringe beliefs (and their source, the SDA foundress) are quite easily deconstructed. They love Christ, but are badly mislead on doctrine. They remain one of the most anti-Catholic of the fragmented denominations out there. Google “Ellen Gould White” and read up a little - about her serious head injury; the coma; the alleged mercury poisoning; the subsequent “visions”; her many “revelations” that drove SDA doctrine. As with so many predatory denominations, they pray on poorly catechized Catholics.

 

[po18guy]

I got the authority of the Bible, the word of God, Which by the way is the one that corrects people and churches.
Please show me in the Bible all of your beliefs. For example the idea than Mary is alive, that she was inmaculate, that she still a virgin, that we can talk to her in order to be accepted by Jesus…
Authority is within the word of God.

The bible is a wonderful source of wisdom - essential, but it also tells us that it is incomplete. Read Luke 3:18, John 20:30 and 21:25, Acts 2:40, 1 Corinthians 11:34 to begin with. The bible tells us that scripture needs authoritative interpretation before it can be understood. See Nehemiah 8:8 and Acts 8:30-31. The bible tells us that we must not privately interpret scripture - see 2 Peter 1:20. It also tells us that scripture can be distorted: 2 Peter 3:16. One thing the bible does not do: tell us that it is complete, or is the sole rule of faith. Nowhere. So, why do we believe this?

Our Lord teaches us that His Church is the final voice. See Matthew 18:15-17. The bible teaches us that not it, but the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth: 1 Timothy 3:15. The bible tells us that our faith is perfected, not through scripture, but face to face: 1 Thessalonians 3:10. This runs counter to what you have been taught, but remains the strength of the Church which our Lord founded.

You have come to this site for a reason. I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you to all truth.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[greggy53]

I got the authority of the Bible, the word of God, Which by the way is the one that corrects people and churches.
Please show me in the Bible all of your beliefs. For example the idea than Mary is alive, that she was inmaculate, that she still a virgin, that we can talk to her in order to be accepted by Jesus…
Authority is within the word of God.

So you teach that all believers when they die they sleep and wait for judgement? If so doesn’t Bible tell us of a prophet that didn’t die, but was scooped up in a chariot and went directly to heaven? If what you say is true who are the saints that stand before the altar of God in Revelations? Are they dead people too? We Christians don’t rely on just the Bible for our beliefs. We rely on the Church which Jesus established (that’s in the Bible)

 

[excubitor]

Let me share with you some Bible and please dont take it the wrong way, I just want to show you what I once found… Please read this by yourself, dont believe what I am saying without reading the bible and confirming all these verses.

Eccl 12:7 Dust returns to the earth, and so the spirit to God who gave it.

This is what the Catholic church teaches.

Job 27:3 & James 2:26 The spirit is that breath of God, without that we are just dead.

Without the spirit the BODY is dead. That is directly what James states and is the teaching of the Catholic church.

Gen 2:7 When God made man He took dust, added Breath of life (spirit) and man became a living soul. The opposite happens to death. The dust and breath are separated and the soul ceases to exist for a time… The soul can die, it is not immortal (Ezek 18:4, Matt 10:28)

Unfortunately the word soul can be used to indicate the whole man, body and soul together, or it can mean just the soul itself which has been detached from the body at death. So we need to be aware of the context in order to determine how the word is being used. So we might say 100 souls were lost at sea. In Matt 10:28 however there is no confusion. It is specifically stating that a human person is made up of body and of soul.
The other thing is that death to a soul does not necessarily mean the same thing as death to a body does. When a body dies it goes into the ground and rots. When a soul dies it goes into hell where it suffers interminably. Death to the soul is mainly a seperation from God. It is only your own interpretation which states that death to a soul means that there is a complete lack of awareness.

Now, Jesus called death a SLEEP (John 11:11-14)
All the dead sleep in the same place (Job 3:11, 13-19)
David also taught the same thing… Death = Sleep. The word cemetery means ‘the sleeping place’ (Ps 13:3) And Where do the dead sleep? Dan 12:2… In the dust of the earth. The dead remain in the grave.

The wicked die because their bodies are dead and their souls are dead in hell. The righteous are said to be sleeping in that their bodies are dead but their souls are still alive in hell waiting to be returned to enliven the body in the same way that waking up enlivens the body. Which is why Jesus said of Abraham.
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

By which he is saying that the righteous are not dead but only their bodies appear dead. Its like a little seed. It appears lifeless but when planted into the ground it germinates and flourishes into new life.

Eccl 9:5-6, Death is an unconscious state, the dead know not anything.
Eccl 9:10, There is no working, nor planning, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave.

Ecclesiastes also says that life is meaningless vanity. The book is speaking entirely from a humanistic perspective as to say what life and death is like from a worldly perspective if we were to be entirely without God. It teaches us to put no stock in this earthly life and rather to set our sights on things above, things which are heavenly. The resurrection is the hope of the Christian and is a heavenly gift.

Ps146: 3-4, the plans of the dead perish.
So there is no mental or physical activity in death.

All the earthly plans perish. If you were building a house or planting a field then those plans all end at that point and become someone elses responsibility. This does not mean that there is no awareness in heaven or in hell.

The dead are NOT in heaven…

The scriptures say otherwise. The apostle John had an amazing vision. He saw the souls of the martyrs crying out. Clearly these souls were in heaven under the altar and they were aware because they were calling out for vengeance.
*Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? *

Ps 115:17. The dead praise NOT the Lord.
Ps 6:5. God is not known by the dead.

Again the distinction between the dead and those who are asleep. The dead who are dead in soul and in body do not know or praise God. They curse God in hell. This distinction is made very clear in Ps 115
17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. 18 But we will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord
So clearly from this passage the righteous never cease from blessing the Lord even when their bodies die, Whereas the dead who are dead in body and in soul “go down” which is a reference to the descent into hell of the disembodied souls of the wicked.

 

[excubitor]

Acts 2:34. David was not in Heaven 1000 years after his death.

The passage is unmistakeably talking about the resurrection of the body. It states in verse 29 that David’s body is dead and buried and in a sepulchre. The passage states that Christ alone ascended into heaven. Christ alone has been resurrected from the dead with his body united again with the soul into everlasting life, and then by his own power ascended bodily into heaven. None of this passage proves that David’s soul has not been taken into heaven with all the Saints. All it proves is that David’s body has not been taken into heaven.

There are lots of evidences in the bible in this regard, but not all is sadness… There is HOPE!

John 11:25, the dead will live again!
Job 14:10-12, the dead rise from the sleep of death “when the Heavens are no more”
Rev 6:14, the Heavens roll away at the second coming of Jesus.
Job 14:13-15, Job would wait patiently in the grave till the coming of Christ. When the Lord called, Job would hear His voice and come out!

How is it possible for Job to wait patiently in the grave or hear the voice of Christ if he is completely unaware? I think you have defeated your own argument.

John 5:28,29, at the Second Coming of Jesus the dead are raised from the grave!

Same point here in John 5
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

So those who are in the grave have a choice whether they are going to hear the voice of the Son of God or not? How is this possible if they are completely unaware.

1 Cor 15:51-54, the righteous dead become immortal and incorruptible at the Second Advent of their Lord!

The resurrection is the glorious hope for the dead. If the dead were to ascend to Heaven at death then there would be no need for the Second Coming, the day of judgment, rewards at Christ’s appearing or a resurrection, dont you think so?

No. Clearly it is an unnatural state for souls to be disembodied. As I related previously the souls in heaven cry out “How long”. This is not to say that the souls in heaven are not in joy but this joy is largely in anticipation of the resurrection. The catechism makes very clear that the hope of Christians is the resurrection without which we are of all men most miserable. I believe that this is not well understood by Catholics so I encourage Catholics to read the section on the resurrection in the Catechism.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a11.htm

1 Cor 15: 16-23, says if there is not resurrection then the dead are perished. But Paul declares the dead shall live again at the Second Coming!

Again the passage is talking about the resurrection of the flesh. Without the resurrection the flesh of the body would stay rotten in the ground. This would be entirely unsatisfactory. Christ showed the importance of the fleshly body when after he was resurrected he ate and drank with the disciples and encouraged them to touch and handle him. He went to great pains to ensure that they understood that he was not a ghost but was a man. A man is not really a man without his body, he is a ghost. Therefore we long and hope for the renewing of our bodies into immortality at the parousia of Christ.

Job 19: 25-27, Job’s hope was in the resurrection in the last day.
1 Thess 4: 16-17 says dead and living righteous BOTH go to heaven together. Amazing verse! and Heb. 11: 39-40 says that ALL God’s people recieve heaven together.

All this passage states is that at the return of Christ that the bodies of those living will be changed to immortal bodies very shortly after the bodies of the dead are resurrected into immortality. I bet you did not notice verse 14.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Now where is Jesus coming from? Heaven. Who is he bringing with him? The dead in Christ. How can Jesus bring the dead in Christ with him from heaven if they were not formerly in heaven? Clearly what is being described here is Christ coming from heaven with the souls of the saints to reunite them with their resurrected bodies. And so shall they ever be with the Lord. Now this reunion of body and soul most clearly does not occur in the spiritual heaven of God’s throne, but rather in the clouds of this earthly sky.

I believe that there is absolutely no valid reason why any Christian could object to the Catholic teaching of the resurrection. I suspect that you will read what I have written here and what the catechism says and you will not change your tune one iota. Why is that? It is because the whole purpose which you are seeking to achieve is to justify your animosity against the Catholic church and to justify your membership of the SDA.

You are caught in a vicious web and you will not be able to get out of it. Even though it is explained to you, you will favour your SDA interpretations. So why have I bothered responding to you? Because I believe that my post will help and educate fellow Catholics to better understand the teachings of the church with regards to the resurrection.

 

[Rexpi]

The passage is unmistakeably talking about the resurrection of the body. It states in verse 29 that David’s body is dead and buried and in a sepulchre. The passage states that Christ alone ascended into heaven. Christ alone has been resurrected from the dead with his body united again with the soul into everlasting life, and then by his own power ascended bodily into heaven. None of this passage proves that David’s soul has not been taken into heaven with all the Saints. All it proves is that David’s body has not been taken into heaven.

How is it possible for Job to wait patiently in the grave or hear the voice of Christ if he is completely unaware? I think you have defeated your own argument.

Same point here in John 5
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

So those who are in the grave have a choice whether they are going to hear the voice of the Son of God or not? How is this possible if they are completely unaware.

No. Clearly it is an unnatural state for souls to be disembodied. As I related previously the souls in heaven cry out “How long”. This is not to say that the souls in heaven are not in joy but this joy is largely in anticipation of the resurrection. The catechism makes very clear that the hope of Christians is the resurrection without which we are of all men most miserable. I believe that this is not well understood by Catholics so I encourage Catholics to read the section on the resurrection in the Catechism.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a11.htm

Again the passage is talking about the resurrection of the flesh. Without the resurrection the flesh of the body would stay rotten in the ground. This would be entirely unsatisfactory. Christ showed the importance of the fleshly body when after he was resurrected he ate and drank with the disciples and encouraged them to touch and handle him. He went to great pains to ensure that they understood that he was not a ghost but was a man. A man is not really a man without his body, he is a ghost. Therefore we long and hope for the renewing of our bodies into immortality at the parousia of Christ.

All this passage states is that at the return of Christ that the bodies of those living will be changed to immortal bodies very shortly after the bodies of the dead are resurrected into immortality. I bet you did not notice verse 14.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Now where is Jesus coming from? Heaven. Who is he bringing with him? The dead in Christ. How can Jesus bring the dead in Christ with him from heaven if they were not formerly in heaven? Clearly what is being described here is Christ coming from heaven with the souls of the saints to reunite them with their resurrected bodies. And so shall they ever be with the Lord. Now this reunion of body and soul most clearly does not occur in the spiritual heaven of God’s throne, but rather in the clouds of this earthly sky.

I believe that there is absolutely no valid reason why any Christian could object to the Catholic teaching of the resurrection. I suspect that you will read what I have written here and what the catechism says and you will not change your tune one iota. Why is that? It is because the whole purpose which you are seeking to achieve is to justify your animosity against the Catholic church and to justify your membership of the SDA.

You are caught in a vicious web and you will not be able to get out of it. Even though it is explained to you, you will favour your SDA interpretations. So why have I bothered responding to you? Because I believe that my post will help and educate fellow Catholics to better understand the teachings of the church with regards to the resurrection.

Well lets fellow catholics and others decide for themselves then… To me is clear and by the way the very first lie of Satan at Eden was this… You surely wont die. Whats the point of Jesus coming if we can go straight to Heaven or Hell? Like I said let people decide in their hearts.

 

[po18guy]

Well lets fellow catholics and others decide for themselves then… To me is clear and by the way the very first lie of Satan at Eden was this… You surely wont die. Whats the point of Jesus coming if we can go straight to Heaven or Hell? Like I said let people decide in their hearts.

Just know that many SDA beliefs are distinctly peculiar, and very new to Christianity. This raises flags - or should. I do not question the faith or love of SDA members, but only the organization’s doctrines.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

I got the authority of the Bible, the word of God, Which by the way is the one that corrects people and churches.

So your saying you need to correct The Catholic Church that wrote the bible?

Please show me in the Bible all of your beliefs. For example the idea than Mary is alive, that she was inmaculate, that she still a virgin, that we can talk to her in order to be accepted by Jesus…
Authority is within the word of God.

The only authority to interpret scriptures is The Catholic Church!

Matthew

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

I was hoping this thread was a little fresher. Much of SDA beliefs are consistent with mainline protestantism (and even Catholicism), but their fringe beliefs (and their source, the SDA foundress) are quite easily deconstructed. They love Christ, but are badly mislead on doctrine. They remain one of the most anti-Catholic of the fragmented denominations out there. Google “Ellen Gould White” and read up a little - about her serious head injury; the coma; the alleged mercury poisoning; the subsequent “visions”; her many “revelations” that drove SDA doctrine. As with so many predatory denominations, they pray on poorly catechized Catholics.

Hi po18guy, I agree with you. I have a friend of mine who just joined an SDA church several months ago and has now become very anti-catholic! I’ve never been to any of their services but i can tell you he sees me in a much different light.
Good post and thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

The passage is unmistakeably talking about the resurrection of the body. It states in verse 29 that David’s body is dead and buried and in a sepulchre. The passage states that Christ alone ascended into heaven. Christ alone has been resurrected from the dead with his body united again with the soul into everlasting life, and then by his own power ascended bodily into heaven. None of this passage proves that David’s soul has not been taken into heaven with all the Saints. All it proves is that David’s body has not been taken into heaven.

How is it possible for Job to wait patiently in the grave or hear the voice of Christ if he is completely unaware? I think you have defeated your own argument.

Same point here in John 5
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

So those who are in the grave have a choice whether they are going to hear the voice of the Son of God or not? How is this possible if they are completely unaware.

No. Clearly it is an unnatural state for souls to be disembodied. As I related previously the souls in heaven cry out “How long”. This is not to say that the souls in heaven are not in joy but this joy is largely in anticipation of the resurrection. The catechism makes very clear that the hope of Christians is the resurrection without which we are of all men most miserable. I believe that this is not well understood by Catholics so I encourage Catholics to read the section on the resurrection in the Catechism.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a11.htm

Again the passage is talking about the resurrection of the flesh. Without the resurrection the flesh of the body would stay rotten in the ground. This would be entirely unsatisfactory. Christ showed the importance of the fleshly body when after he was resurrected he ate and drank with the disciples and encouraged them to touch and handle him. He went to great pains to ensure that they understood that he was not a ghost but was a man. A man is not really a man without his body, he is a ghost. Therefore we long and hope for the renewing of our bodies into immortality at the parousia of Christ.

All this passage states is that at the return of Christ that the bodies of those living will be changed to immortal bodies very shortly after the bodies of the dead are resurrected into immortality. I bet you did not notice verse 14.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Now where is Jesus coming from? Heaven. Who is he bringing with him? The dead in Christ. How can Jesus bring the dead in Christ with him from heaven if they were not formerly in heaven? Clearly what is being described here is Christ coming from heaven with the souls of the saints to reunite them with their resurrected bodies. And so shall they ever be with the Lord. Now this reunion of body and soul most clearly does not occur in the spiritual heaven of God’s throne, but rather in the clouds of this earthly sky.

I believe that there is absolutely no valid reason why any Christian could object to the Catholic teaching of the resurrection. I suspect that you will read what I have written here and what the catechism says and you will not change your tune one iota. Why is that? It is because the whole purpose which you are seeking to achieve is to justify your animosity against the Catholic church and to justify your membership of the SDA.

You are caught in a vicious web and you will not be able to get out of it. Even though it is explained to you, you will favour your SDA interpretations. So why have I bothered responding to you? Because I believe that my post will help and educate fellow Catholics to better understand the teachings of the church with regards to the resurrection.

Thanks excubitor for a great post!

Matthew

 

[greggy53]

The only authority to interpret scriptures is The Catholic Church!

Matthew

Exactly, that is why there are more than 10, 000 protestant denominations all claiming to have the correct theology and interpretaions of scripture.