Seceeding from the Union

[pete_29]

There is no way a a state separated from us could possibly survive as anything other than a third world country. It would be disastrous. To discuss this is madness, and the people in the states advocating for secession are deluded.

It might not be disastrous. The red states grow most of the food and have a good percentage of the industry.

 

[GEddie]

And the rest of flyover country will have oil and refineries to make gasoline (which leftists hate with a passion so they won’t have any in their states) and we also have all this nice agriculture. Try to live without food or oil/gas. I challenge you.

No, we have one point of view (leftism) imposing its viewpoint on the rest of the nation using the power of government. There is no tolerance of differing points of view. And you proved it by calling people who disagree with leftism “racists” and “bigots” You demonize people for having a different opinion! You declare people to be evil for having a different opinion! “How dare you think different! I will call you names and demonize you!!!” is what you are saying.

We are not a melting pot.

We have one group of people (leftists) seeking to impose their beliefs on others by using the government to do so.

Zero tolerance of diversity, MOST ESPECIALLY when the opinion is disagreeing with leftists.

And seven years ago, the leftists were saying the same about GWB. The shoe is on the other foot now, and it will change feet again.

I am sure you remember all those “liberals” who threatened to emigrate when GWB won reelection. Since Canada was apparently their preferred destination, I wonder what Canadians thought of us then?

Look, you can leave the USA whenever you care to if some other nation gives you a visa; but you can’t take American square mileage with you. That’s what national sovereignty means.

Shalom, ICXC NIKA

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

If people can leave any lawfully elected government whenever they wish, then what authority does the government even have?

The government should respect their citizens and stop kicking them around. We are not animals! We should be treated with dignity and respect. We are used to get our money that we work hard for. They just give it away to people who do not deserve it (leeches on the system) Or waste it. We need real Hope and Real change and it will not come from the U.S.A

 

[BobCatholic]

And seven years ago, the leftists were saying the same about GWB. The shoe is on the other foot now, and it will change feet again.

Not really.

The electorate is turning more and more and more left. In 2008 they elected a cipher with “present” as his voting record (except for abortion, he was very PRO abortion)

Then in 2012 they re-elected this guy who did nothing but shove Obamacare down our throat. And played more golf than GWB did in 8 years!

And those same leftists will use the government to impose their beliefs on others.

Two left feet don’t walk very well. And I don’t want to be there when it trips.

 

[GEddie]

Not really.

The electorate is turning more and more and more left. In 2008 they elected a cipher with “present” as his voting record (except for abortion, he was very PRO abortion)

Then in 2012 they re-elected this guy who did nothing but shove Obamacare down our throat. And played more golf than GWB did in 8 years!

And those same leftists will use the government to impose their beliefs on others.

Two left feet don’t walk very well. And I don’t want to be there when it trips.

The “right” wasn’t happy about Clinton, either, yet the country survived him.

Look, nO one likes losing elections, but unless your eyes are rolled back, life goes on. I have faith in the people of this country.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ThatOrthodoxGuy]

The “right” wasn’t happy about Clinton, either, yet the country survived him.

Look, nO one likes losing elections, but unless your eyes are rolled back, life goes on. I have faith in the people of this country.

ICXC NIKA

Its more than just a election

 

[Seeker1961]

Now there’s a petition on there to get all the people who signed the petitions to withdraw from the union kicked out of the country and never be allowed back!

As the right often said to anyone who disagreed with them during the Bush years. “if you don’t like what’s going on here, you’re free to leave”.

That doesn’t sound so nice now that the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

 

[Pat_Albertson]

Now there’s a petition on there to get all the people who signed the petitions to withdraw from the union kicked out of the country and never be allowed back!

As the right often said to anyone who disagreed with them during the Bush years. “if you don’t like what’s going on here, you’re free to leave”.

That doesn’t sound so nice now that the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

All it means is that the people who made those petitions either don’t know or else don’t understand the content of the 1st Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

How are you free to petition the government for redress of grievances if you are subsequently punished for it?

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’m sorry, but this just strikes me as “I didn’t get what I wanted so I’m going to take my toys and go home!”

I remember my liberal friends going off the deep end when GW Bush won a second term and I told them the same thing: sometimes you win, sometimes you lose-character is in how you handle it when life doesn’t go your way.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Maybe people are tired of getting kicked around from a powerful government? If they do want to leave its their choice.

N. Korea, China, Iran, Afghanistan…just a few, think those people sympathize with you’re getting ‘kicked around’?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But isn’t pointing a gun at them to keep them disastrous also:shrug:

I’m not sure but I think people do have an option to renounce their citizenship if they’re serious. I think you have to be in another country if you want do be fully relieved of all obligations though, like taxes, military, etc.

 

[pnewton]

As the right often said to anyone who disagreed with them during the Bush years. “if you don’t like what’s going on here, you’re free to leave”.

That doesn’t sound so nice now that the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

I’m not sure but I think people do have an option to renounce their citizenship if they’re serious. I think you have to be in another country if you want do be fully relieved of all obligations though, like taxes, military, etc.

I didn’t like it then, and I do not like “love it or leave it” now, even if it comes with a friendly thumbs up. Such inane suggestions ignore the right of a people to their own homeland.

I think this whole issue is academic, but if it were not, I would not abandon my home (Texas) because of actions taken by people outside. Mostly, I would accept what burdens I am put under, because like is fundamentally unfair, because we really do have a tyranny of the majority now long predicted and because any such struggle is bound for failure at this time. Thus, any armed struggle would be immoral. Any legal struggle is futile. Long before enough support exists to allow for peaceful secession, support will exist to allow for increased state’s rights as a balance to the federal government. We are a long way from either and moving in the wrong direction.

This will not always be the case. The United States will eventually have to pay the Obama bill. This will result in a destabilization of the country and may finally allow for positive change (I hope).

 

[BobCatholic]

The “right” wasn’t happy about Clinton, either, yet the country survived him.

Look, nO one likes losing elections, but unless your eyes are rolled back, life goes on. I have faith in the people of this country.

ICXC NIKA

Clintin didn’t pass Hilllarycare. Obama did pass Obamacare. Which is a huge power grab by the federal government. I consider it Obama’s Enabling Act.

Then in 1994 we actually had a republican party who did good things such as a balance the budget. Today, we don’t have a republican party. It is a shell of its former self, if I can be that optimistic in saying so.

Do not compare then and now. You are comparing Apples and Roast Beef (beyond apples and oranges)

We used to have a 2 party system. Now we have one party and the other one says “wait, we wanna catch up! wait for us!!!”

 

[LaSainte]

I do not agree when as it inevitably will the oil runs out Texas will be a goner. Becuase it is oil (or ahl) that is the only thing that keeps Texas in it’s current position. Agrriculture won’t keep Texas going like oil will.

My grandparents during their lives had a ranch that barely enabled them to survive, it was oil on their property that made the difference between bare survival and a small degree of comfort.

Now with the frequent droughts they would not survive at all.

As for the borders anyone knows that the border to the south is hardly deffended at all.

Yes but just offshore in the Gulff of Mexico, there is TONS of oil and Texas has all the ports leading out there. That oil will not run out for the foreseeable future and with Texas controlling the ports, nobody else would be able to tap into it. Texas also owns all the refineries for converting the oil into gas. That’s why gas is always cheaper in Texas

 

[BobCatholic]

Yes but just offshore in the Gulff of Mexico, there is TONS of oil and Texas has all the ports leading out there. That oil will not run out for the foreseeable future and with Texas controlling the ports, nobody else would be able to tap into it. Texas also owns all the refineries for converting the oil into gas. That’s why gas is always cheaper in Texas

Oil means nothing if you cannot refine it for uses.

We have not built a refinery in over 30 years. Because the environmental movement and Big Oil are in bed together. The environmentalists make sure no more refineries are built in the name of “protecting the environment” when in reality it is in the name of higher gas prices.

The last refinery attempt was in New Mexico, in the middle of the desert. It never got out of planning because of the environmentalists.

And this is why gas prices tripled in the past 5 years. We hit our capacity for gasoline and that’s it people. We have not hit peak oil. We have hit peak refinery capacity.

As more and more cars go on the road, we will see gas lines forming as gasoline is rationed.

We could DOUBLE OIL PRODUCTION tomorrow. And gas prices would still be ridiculously high and getting more in short supply.

Oh, and did I forget to mention the greedy government whose taxes are 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of gas?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I didn’t like it then, and I do not like “love it or leave it” now, even if it comes with a friendly thumbs up. Such inane suggestions ignore the right of a people to their own homeland.

I think this whole issue is academic, but if it were not, I would not abandon my home (Texas) because of actions taken by people outside. Mostly, I would accept what burdens I am put under, because like is fundamentally unfair, because we really do have a tyranny of the majority now long predicted and because any such struggle is bound for failure at this time. Thus, any armed struggle would be immoral. Any legal struggle is futile. Long before enough support exists to allow for peaceful secession, support will exist to allow for increased state’s rights as a balance to the federal government. We are a long way from either and moving in the wrong direction.

This will not always be the case. The United States will eventually have to pay the Obama bill. This will result in a destabilization of the country and may finally allow for positive change (I hope).

I did not say this as an invitation to leave. I am trying to give food for thought so people will see the extent of what they are talking about giving up.

This type talk is a sign of despair and we’re not done yet; however, there’s an old teaching, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

 

[pnewton]

This type talk is a sign of despair and we’re not done yet; however, there’s an old teaching, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

That is kind of the point, isn’t it? Lincoln used this, but he never could defend it. This country was designed, and would have best worked, as the united states, a community of houses, not a single house. We had the single house as part of the British Empire and decided division was needed.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That is kind of the point, isn’t it? Lincoln used this, but he never could defend it. This country was designed, and would have best worked, as the united states, a community of houses, not a single house. We had the single house as part of the British Empire and decided division was needed.

Abe got it from an even better source.

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

As we left British rule the colonies decided to become the UNITED states.

The civil war is history. If we know it, we can avoid the errors.

 

[GEddie]

Oil means nothing if you cannot refine it for uses.

We have not built a refinery in over 30 years. Because the environmental movement and Big Oil are in bed together. The environmentalists make sure no more refineries are built in the name of “protecting the environment” when in reality it is in the name of higher gas prices.

The last refinery attempt was in New Mexico, in the middle of the desert. It never got out of planning because of the environmentalists.

And this is why gas prices tripled in the past 5 years. We hit our capacity for gasoline and that’s it people. We have not hit peak oil. We have hit peak refinery capacity.

As more and more cars go on the road, we will see gas lines forming as gasoline is rationed.

We could DOUBLE OIL PRODUCTION tomorrow. And gas prices would still be ridiculously high and getting more in short supply.

Oh, and did I forget to mention the greedy government whose taxes are 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of gas?

If Texas did secede (it will not) and if the T2R’s leaders had any semblance of a mind (no guarantee of that), the first order of business would be to round up all the environmentalists (no biggie, most of them live in Austin), and provide them an armed escort to the Oklahoma border.

Then provide loans to the owners to expand the refineries at Baytown, Corpus Christi, etc.

And frack, baby, frack.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If Texas did secede (it will not) and if the T2R’s leaders had any semblance of a mind (no guarantee of that), the first order of business would be to round up all the environmentalists (no biggie, most of them live in Austin), and provide them an armed escort to the Oklahoma border.

Then provide loans to the owners to expand the refineries at Baytown, Corpus Christi, etc.

And frack, baby, frack.

ICXC NIKA

But the hobbit will destroy the ring before hand…