Second Coming Errors of Protestantism.

[spauline]

You are referring to the 1,000 yrs reign with Christ and the saints.

Let us took at the passage:

The saints are martyrs. These are Christians who died in the first Century since the Book of Revelation was written around 80-90 AD. The beast is pagan Rome. The saints were rewarded heaven because they died for their faith in Christ. So they live with him now in heaven. 1,000 has many symbolic meanings. Peter makes it clear that 1,000 yrs for God is like a day. So you can’t take it literally. Do you suppose Jesus’ reign for 1,000 yrs will end? I don’t think so. The Gospel made it clear that Jesus’ kingdom is for all eternity.

This is not the official teaching of the Church, this is my interpretation. I also like to add that when Satan is bounded for 1,000 yrs ended, Satan was let loose. We are living out now. Just look at the secular world now where the Truth is a Lie and the Lie is the Truth. You know today, the world is becoming to Anti-God.

But, Manny, you differ from the mystics, who say this is not the great apostasy but only the minor one. In the days to come, according to best mystics’s scenario, we will pass through a DRESS-REHEARSAL for the end of the world, but the world won’t end yet. Rather, the tribulation will expose the non-Catholic darknesses for what they are, reunite Christians, and restore the Catholic Gospel for the whole of humanity. Only after this extended age of peace shall there come the unforgivable and irredeemable apostasy.

hence, from another view, the dragon has never been chained yet. First he was waging war in heaven (pagan Rome) to prevent the conversion of the Gentiles, where he falsely accused the martyrs, but the martyrs defeated him and he was cast to earth. He pursued the woman (the Dark Ages).

But the woman flew to safety and rested for a minor period (Middle Age Catholic Christendom). The dragon then spewed a flood of heresies after her (Protestantism, the Enlightenment), but the Magisterium, the “earth”, the “pillar and ground of truth”, swallowed his lies and preserved her (Trent, Vat I).

The angry dragon ran off to make war with her, and raised the great deception (the modern secular apostasy). Currently, the world worships the beast and false prophet of apostate secular messianism.

But eventually the consequences of the depravity come (the vials). In the peak of it, the dragon shows up to gather the nations for battle (the coming Minor Chastisement).

But Christ “returned” and cast the beast and false prophet into the fire (Christ ushered in the supreme extent of his Redemption WITHIN human history in the age of peace, FIGURATIVELY.) And during the age of peace, the dragon was chained, because Jesus’ Catholic grace reigned in most mens hearts (except the Jews, mainly).

But the dragon was released a final time (the GREAT apostasy), when Revelation 13 thru 16 were fulfilled all over again, but after that, Jesus finally returned literally.

Just my :2cents:

 

[Lev23]

God does not owe the Jews any land or protection.

Zionism is based on the faulty assumption that God still owes the Jews the land He promised to give to Abraham’s descendants. Scripture, however, teaches that God has already fulfilled His promises to the Jews. (Jos. 21:43) (1 Kings 8:56) (Neh. 9:7-8)

Thus, those who believe that God still owes the Jews land and protection by divine decree deny the plain meaning of Scripture and make God a liar. In fact, the loss of Israel’s ancient holdings is a sign of God’s divine judgment against the Jews for rejecting His Son, Jesus Christ, their Messiah. God warned Israel in (1 Kings 9:6-9).

Scripture is clear that God owes the Jews nothing more, and suggests that the Jews are suffering the ramifications of rejecting Jesus Christ. They have been “broken off” of the root of Christ “because of their unbelief” (Rom. 11:19-20). However, Paul says that the Jews can be grafted in again, “if they do not persist in their unbelief,” for God has the power to do so (Rom. 11:23).

The Old Covenant that God entered into with the Jews has been superseded by the New Covenant of Christ. (2 Cor. 3:14) (Heb. 7:18, 8:7, 10:9). I am refering to the “Mosaic covenant" not the Abrahamic covenant which was based on grace through faith and was incorporated into the New Covenant of Christ. All this means that the Jews are no longer in a saving covenant with God until they renounce Judaism and are baptized into Jesus Christ.

This has been happening with individual Jews since the time of Christ. Scripture does not teach a future mass conversion of the Jews.

Peace,

Ryan

Ryan, this looks alot like what Salza writes on his scripture catholic website. All this information is a shame. How can God be done with Israel if there is a remnant of Israel in the Church?

This promised remnant is proof that Jesus is coming back to save the rest of Israel when they repent and call on him, so all Israel will be saved. Peter tells them this sort of thing in Acts 3. So to say that this only happens when individuals come to him now pulls the rug out on the prophecies concerning his coming to save Israel at his second coming. Yes, it is far better for a Jew to come to Christ now than to endure what is to come before Messiah comes back.

But this statement is sadly ironic- "Thus, those who believe that God still owes the Jews land and protection by divine decree deny the plain meaning of Scripture and make God a liar."

Satan wishes all people(the gentiles, Jews and the Church of God)would believe God owes nothing to the Jews. In fact, it has nothing to do with “owing them”, but fulfilling his promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. If Satan can get mankind to believe the Jews are the problem, and to execute a “final solution” that will once and for all rid the world of Israel, then Satan has made God a liar. Because there will be no promises of restoration and the Messiah coming back to Israel to rescue them from the nations. This is said in scripture so many times. Whether it is the remnant of Israel or the broken branches of Israel, Satan hates them all for bringing forth Jesus, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. He wants to lie to the remnant about the promise and keep the broken branches unruly, so that they won’t claim their promises through Jesus of Nazerath.

So stop teaching this that the Jews were not “good enough”, so God will never fulfill the promise of full restoration to the land and righteous reigning from the Messiah, Jesus of Nazerath. The promise to the land is forever, but know we know it is through Messiah, and scripture is clear that they will be in the land after being brought back from all corners of the earth when the call on his name.

Think about this, some say todays Israel is not the Israel to be brought back into the land today(like scripture foretold) because they are disobedient. Well how was Israel when they were brought into the land for the first time?

 

[Lev23]

I intended to directly quote (1 Kings 9:6-9)

“But if you turn aside from following me, you or your children, and do not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and the house which I have consecrated for my name I will cast out of my sight; and Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples. And this house will become a heap of ruins; everyone passing by it will be astonished, and will hiss; and they will say, Why has the LORD done thus to this land and to this house?' Then they will say, Because they forsook the LORD their God who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore the LORD has brought all this evil upon them.’”

It is IMPOSSIBLE to cherry pick scripture to find ways to cast away Israel for how bad they were when you realize what God says in Jeremiah 31 about the New Covenant and Israel.

**Jeremiah 31:31-37
31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.

33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

35 This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:

36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the LORD,
“will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me.”

37 This is what the LORD says:
“Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,”
declares the LORD.**

 

[ryanoneil]

scripturecatholic.com/zionism.html

Lev23 There is the link. All the scripture is there. Maybe you should take it seriously. You are right by saying there is a remnant of Israel in the Church. God is only done with Israel if they persist in the disbelief of Christ. That is the whole point. The problem is not with modern Jews as a people but with their disbelief in Jesus Christ.

“FINAL SOLUTION”? I believe you are the only one talking about the destruction of the Jews in this conversation. I am saying nothing like that what so ever.

You are falsely attributing a future mass conversion of Jews in Acts 3. Peter clearly states that “God has thus brought to fulfillment what he had announce beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Messiah would suffer.” He is calling for them to repent now. The Messiah Jesus has already been appointed to them. (His first advent)

You are correct that he mention Christ’s second coming and universal restoration. Some scholars believe that this verse perserves a very early belief in an imminent second coming. This is the only place in Acts this belief is mentioned and** if** it were true it’s the only mention of a future messiahship in the entire New Testament. In reality, the times of refreshment is the time of eternal rest and happiness. It is the end. Scripture has to be looked at in it’s totality. You are the one that is cherry picking Scripture.

“A prophet like me will the Lord, your God, raise up for you from among your own kinsmen; to him you shall listen in all that he may say to you. Everyone who does not listen to that prophet will be cut off from the people.” Moreover, all the prophets who spoke, from Samuel and those afterwards, also announced these days. (v. 22-24)

This has all been fulfilled in Christ’s first advent.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

This has all been fulfilled in Christ’s first advent.

So stop teaching this that the Jews were not “good enough”, so God will never fulfill the promise of full restoration to the land and righteous reigning from the Messiah, Jesus of Nazerath. The promise to the land is forever, but know we know it is through Messiah, and scripture is clear that they will be in the land after being brought back from all corners of the earth when the call on his name.

I’m not refuting your claim SCRIPTURE IS! We both agree that salvation is available to Jews now. What we disagree on is Christ’s second coming. Most all the Scripture you’ve provided refers to Christ’s first coming. Please quote scripture refering to Christ’s second coming.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[spauline]

Ryan, the Church teaches in the CCC (non-dogmatically) that, in the times of great apostasy, that is, as the Gentiles close their eyes to Christ permanently, the eyes of the fullness of the Jews shall be opened. Remember when I discussed the notion that the Church passes through the same spiritual stages as the Jews, the same as the individual Catholic saint? So then, when Christ came the first time, most Jews rejected Him, and the Gentiles were receptive. When He comes the Second Time, most GENTILES will reject Him, and the Jews will be the main recipients of faith.

 

[ryanoneil]

Ryan, the Church teaches in the CCC (non-dogmatically) that, in the times of great apostasy, that is, as the Gentiles close their eyes to Christ permanently, the eyes of the fullness of the Jews shall be opened. Remember when I discussed the notion that the Church passes through the same spiritual stages as the Jews, the same as the individual Catholic saint? So then, when Christ came the first time, most Jews rejected Him, and the Gentiles were receptive. When He comes the Second Time, most GENTILES will reject Him, and the Jews will be the main recipients of faith.

Thanks spauline. Where can I find that in the CCC?

Peace,

Ryan

 

[Lev23]

scripturecatholic.com/zionism.html

Lev23 There is the link. All the scripture is there. Maybe you should take it seriously. You are right by saying there is a remnant of Israel in the Church. God is only done with Israel if they persist in the disbelief of Christ. That is the whole point. The problem is not with modern Jews as a people but with their disbelief in Jesus Christ.

“FINAL SOLUTION”? I believe you are the only one talking about the destruction of the Jews in this conversation. I am saying nothing like that what so ever.

You are falsely attributing a future mass conversion of Jews in Acts 3. Peter clearly states that “God has thus brought to fulfillment what he had announce beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Messiah would suffer.” He is calling for them to repent now. The Messiah Jesus has already been appointed to them. (His first advent)

You are correct that he mention Christ’s second coming and universal restoration. Some scholars believe that this verse perserves a very early belief in an imminent second coming. This is the only place in Acts this belief is mentioned and** if** it were true it’s the only mention of a future messiahship in the entire New Testament. In reality, the times of refreshment is the time of eternal rest and happiness. It is the end. Scripture has to be looked at in it’s totality. You are the one that is cherry picking Scripture.

“A prophet like me will the Lord, your God, raise up for you from among your own kinsmen; to him you shall listen in all that he may say to you. Everyone who does not listen to that prophet will be cut off from the people.” Moreover, all the prophets who spoke, from Samuel and those afterwards, also announced these days. (v. 22-24)

This has all been fulfilled in Christ’s first advent.

This has all been fulfilled in Christ’s first advent.

I’m not refuting your claim SCRIPTURE IS! We both agree that salvation is available to Jews now. What we disagree on is Christ’s second coming. Most all the Scripture you’ve provided refers to Christ’s first coming. Please quote scripture refering to Christ’s second coming.

Peace,

Ryan

Since you want to use a source to deny Israel of any biblical importance today, here is one I found to contrast your link.

Here is a quote from there-
"About 70 percent of the pages of Scripture are taken up in recounting Israel’s history and prophesying her future: her continued and unrepentant rebellion against God, His reluctant and long-delayed but finally severe discipline (the worst of which is yet to come), the Jews’ worldwide dispersion, their re-gathering from all over the world back into their own land in the Last Days, hundreds of prophecies concerning Israel’s present key role in world affairs, of her greatest trial just ahead (Jer 30:7) when two-thirds of all Jews on earth will be killed (Zec 13:8,9), and of her final restoration under the Messiah (Zec 12-14). Unquestionably, Israel is the major subject of God’s Holy Word. To be wrong about Israel is therefore to be wrong on almost everything in the Bible."

 

[spauline]

Thanks spauline. Where can I find that in the CCC?

Peace,

Ryan

It implies most of what i said:

in the section, “from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead”:

**

The glorious advent of Christ, the hope of Israel

[673](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/673.htm’) Since the Ascension Christ’s coming in glory has been imminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are “delayed”.568 [674](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/674.htm’) The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,572 will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.573
**

 

[ryanoneil]

It implies most of what i said:

in the section, “from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead”:****

Thank you Spauline. This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. If we continue further in the CCC we see:

676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.

I’d like to comment further but I’m going to do it on another post. Thanks again.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[ryanoneil]

Since you want to use a source to deny Israel of any biblical importance today, here is one I found to contrast your link.

Dear Lev23,

I need to apologize for the way I entered this thread. I understand why you would think I was trying to “take out the Jews.” Please believe me that is not my intention. I really do have the utmost respect for our Jewish brothers and sister. I started half-way through a thought that I should have prequalified. Instead, I came out swinging with a hot head. I should have taken a different approach. I’m sorry!

If we could start over (or resume), I’d like to discuss this topic and your posts methodically and charitably.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[spauline]

Thank you Spauline. This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. If we continue further in the CCC we see:

I’d like to comment further but I’m going to do it on another post. Thanks again.

Peace,

Ryan

Hi, Ryan,

you are welcome.

A comment about the Church’s condemnation of “millenarianism.” We must understand what this IS and is NOT condemning.

What it DOES condemn: any interpretation that would have Christ LITERALLY, i.e., physically, returning to earth (please, we are leaving out the Eucharist here, ) and reigning on it at any time PRIOR to the end of time itself. Hence, what is essential and not maleable is the fact that when Christ returns, that is IT. The entire Creation is destroyed and recreated. All human persons that have ever lived shall be resurrected, judged, publicly. Every deed and unseen thought of all human creatures that have ever existed or shall ever exist will be exposed to all other creatures. The just shall go, again resurrected, into the eternal new creation that shall never end, that shall never be interrupted by Evil. And the damned, again, in resurrected form, shall go into the eternal flames to suffer both spiritually and physically forever and ever. There can be no temporary reign of literal resurrected persons and Christ literally on the old earth at any time WITHIN human history. Christ’s Second Coming is the definitive end of all time, the Eternal New Creation.

It ALSO condemns the notion that a period of prosperity could occur prior to the end in which there is a hedonistic indulgence of the material creation.

HOWEVER, it does NOT condemn the notion that Christ’s grace in the Catholic Church might TEMPORARILY triumph in human history in the sense of a great age of peace, PROVIDED that, the prima causa of that peace is precisely that there is SPIRITUAL peace in men’s hearts because of the Gospel. In fact, I have come across a scholar who pointed out that Augustine’s FIRST solution to the Millennium, was to suggest the initial gut feeling, which is that there shall be a special sabbath like rest for the Church, PROVIDED that the cause of the peace is SPIRITUAL.

For this reason, the Church does not condemn the POSSIBILITY that an intermediate crisis of faith and tribulation in Church history could give rise to the reunion of Christians and a TEMPORARY restoration of Catholicism and an associated age of spiritual prosperity. Again, the Church hasn’t said one way or another. She doesn’t say this WILL happen, but neither does she say it COULND’T happen.

But, also, what it would condemn in addition would be the idea that in the age of peace, there would, again, be an overindulgence in the fruits of the world, or that suffering would be eliminated. The age of peace would simply be that men have come back to Christ and the Catholic Church, and the sincere embrace thereof, and so even though physical evil shall continue, moral evil shall be so reduced that there is actually a temporal peace in the world for that age.

But it WOULD condemn the notion that the great restoration could last until the end of the world. Again, as the CCC points out, EVEN IF there is a great restoration of faith and an age of peace, INIQUITY worketh toward the final rebellion. Hence, the age of peace, even IF it comes, cannot last indefinitely. Eventually humanity shall fall away again. THe Church has all but dogma that in the end, there is a great apostasy, an incurable apostasy. Even if the near whole of humanity be brought into the love of God and His Church, it cannot persevere. In the end, the world shall be mostly dark in the time of the Son of Man.

I hope this helps, Ryan.

Scott

 

[ryanoneil]

Thank you Scott. I always enjoy reading your posts and the insights you share.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[ryanoneil]

Since you want to use a source to deny Israel of any biblical importance today, here is one I found to contrast your link.

Here is a quote from there-
"About 70 percent of the pages of Scripture are taken up in recounting Israel’s history and prophesying her future: her continued and unrepentant rebellion against God, His reluctant and long-delayed but finally severe discipline (the worst of which is yet to come), the Jews’ worldwide dispersion, their re-gathering from all over the world back into their own land in the Last Days, hundreds of prophecies concerning Israel’s present key role in world affairs, of her greatest trial just ahead (Jer 30:7) when two-thirds of all Jews on earth will be killed (Zec 13:8,9), and of her final restoration under the Messiah (Zec 12-14). Unquestionably, Israel is the major subject of God’s Holy Word. To be wrong about Israel is therefore to be wrong on almost everything in the Bible."

It is important to understand that Zechariah is a clear and consisent prophecy of the first advent of Christ. Jesus quotes Zechariah 13:7 in Mark 14:27 to describe His experience in the Passion. “Jesus said to them, You will all fall away; for it is written, I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.” So Zechariah 13:7 was undeniably fulfilled in the first advent. Yet when I look at the quote above (Zec:8,9) time warps ahead 2,000 + years to describe future prophecy.

If one applies one verse to the second advent, the next verse to the first advent, and then the very next verse to the second advent again, the book is cut and pasted into total confusion. If this understanding is correct, Zechariah was one very confused prophet.

Please explain how this makes sense?

Peace,

Ryan

 

[spauline]

Thank you Scott. I always enjoy reading your posts and the insights you share.

Peace,

Ryan

You are welcome, Ryan, and thank you for the kind words.

 

[ryanoneil]

What about (Zec9:9). That verse is is quoted in the Gospels as being fulfilled in the triumphal entry of Christ into Jerusalem: “This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, 'Tell the daughter of Zion: Behold, your King is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an *ss,and on a colt, the foal of an *ss.” (Mat 21:4-5) In spite of this rapturist claim that all verses preceding and following 9:9 refer to events at least 2,000 years later.

Also, the whole of Chapter 11 cannot be taken as applying to anything other than Christ’s first advent. Yet rapturist believe that all of Chapters 10 and 12 are a discussion of twenty first century events. These time sequences make no sense.

I found a chart like this in Currie’s book “Rapture.” Each rapturist might tweak the details in a slightly different way, but, generally speaking, this chart shows their system. The verses are in three groups: Zechariah’s time (6th BC), the first advent (1st AD), and the second advent (21 AD). (Assuming that rapturists are correct in their contention that the second coming must come before the end of the twenty-first century.)

6th century BC Zec 1:1-7 - 7:14 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------v

v-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------21st century AD Zec 8:1 - 8:8

6th century BC Zec 8:9 - 8:19 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------v

v---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------21st century AD Zec 8:20 - 9:8

1st century AD Zec 9:9 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------v

v-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------21st century AD Zec 9:10 - 10:12

1st century AD Zec 11:1 - 11:17 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------v

v------------------------------------------------------------------------------------21st century AD Zec 12:1 - 13:6

1st century AD Zec 13:7 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------v

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------21st century AD Zec 13:8 - 14:21

This interruption of thought makes a muddle of any attempt to understand Zechariah.

Peace,

Ryan

 

[shawn34_a]

What people fail to realize is that we all will go through the Great Tribulation. The rapture will occur at the second coming of Christ before the wrath of God is poured out (7 bowls). Christ will depose of governments and set up his 1000 reign. At that point Satan is loosed for one final time for a little while (Rev 20:1-30). Finally Satan will be defeated one last time and the new Jerusalem will be established.

Lev,

What people fail to accept is that the church referenced in Revelations as the harlot is the Roman Catholic Church.

1. Research the history of the Jesuits, military wing of the Catholic church. The title of the leader of the Jesuits is the Superior General (aka Black Pope). You’ll find that real interersting and undeniable. Also research the plans that the Vatican has for the Temple Mount. They want it and will take it after the temple is rebuilt. If you start researching and follow the money and power, the Jesuits are normally at the root of it. This will be the new world order prophesized.
2. What other christian religion(s) offers salvation to people without Jesus Christ except the Catholic Church. That very fact denies various scriptures throughout the NT. Jesus said that there is no other way to the father, but through the son. He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe in Him is already condemned. There are others too.
3. Also research, or if some Catholic could post, the Catholic Priests oath in a post. Interesting!

 

[shawn34_a]

What people fail to realize is that we all will go through the Great Tribulation. The rapture will occur at the second coming of Christ before the wrath of God is poured out (7 bowls). Christ will depose of governments and set up his 1000 reign. At that point Satan is loosed for one final time for a little while (Rev 20:1-30). Finally Satan will be defeated one last time and the new Jerusalem will be established.

Lev,

What people fail to accept is that the church referenced in Revelations as the harlot is the Roman Catholic Church.

1. Research the history of the Jesuits, military wing of the Catholic church. The title of the leader of the Jesuits is the Superior General (aka Black Pope). You’ll find that real interersting and undeniable. Also research the plans that the Vatican has for the Temple Mount. They want it and will take it after the temple is rebuilt. If you start researching and follow the money and power, the Jesuits are normally at the root of it. This will be the new world order prophesized.
2. What other christian religion(s) offers salvation to people without Jesus Christ except the Catholic Church. That very fact denies various scriptures throughout the NT. Jesus said that there is no other way to the father, but through the son. He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe in Him is already condemned. There are others too.
3. Also research, or if some Catholic could post, the Catholic Priests oath in a post. Interesting!

 

[jmcrae]

What people fail to accept is that the church referenced in Revelations as the harlot is the Roman Catholic Church.

Not really, no.

1. Research the history of the Jesuits, military wing of the Catholic church.

You’re kidding, right? I have met many Jesuits; they are all very peace-loving men; hardly “military.” Their only weapon is the Gospel.

The title of the leader of the Jesuits is the Superior General (aka Black Pope).

All religious orders have Superior Generals; it just means that they are in charge (Superior) of the entire Order (“General,” as opposed to “Specific.” Not “General” like in an army.) Jesuits are just one of many, many different religious orders. There is no such thing as a “black Pope.” Only the Pope is the Pope, and all Catholics (including all Superior Generals) are subject to the Pope.

1. Also research, or if some Catholic could post, the Catholic Priests oath in a post. Interesting!

Which one? (There are several promises that a priest makes at the time of his Ordination, and while preparing for Ordination.)

 

[shawn34_a]

Not really, no.

You’re kidding, right? I have met many Jesuits; they are all very peace-loving men; hardly “military.” Their only weapon is the Gospel.

All religious orders have Superior Generals; it just means that they are in charge (Superior) of the entire Order (“General,” as opposed to “Specific.” Not “General” like in an army.) Jesuits are just one of many, many different religious orders. There is no such thing as a “black Pope.” Only the Pope is the Pope, and all Catholics (including all Superior Generals) are subject to the Pope.

Which one? (There are several promises that a priest makes at the time of his Ordination, and while preparing for Ordination.)

Right from the New Advent website:

The name “Societas Jesu” had been born by a military order approved and recommended by Pius II in 1450, the purpose of which was to fight against the Turks and aid in spreading the Christian faith. The early Jesuits were sent by Ignatius first to pagan lands or to Catholic countries; to Protestant countries only at the special request of the pope and to Germany, the cradle-land of the Reformation, at the urgent solicitation of the imperial ambassador.

Wikipedia
The Superior General of the Society of Jesus is the official title of the leader of the Society of Jesus—the Roman Catholic religious order also known as the Jesuits. He is generally addressed as Father General. Because the Jesuits are such a large and influential order, the position carries the nickname of Black Pope, after his simple black priest’s vestments, as contrasted to the white garb of the Pope

Catholic Website
cathnews.com/news/602/30.php
Jesuits to elect new ‘black pope’ in 2008
The superior general of the Jesuits, Dutch Fr Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, has informed members of the Society that he intends to step down in 2008, the year he will turn 80.
Catholic News service reports that in a letter sent on Thursday to all members of the Society of Jesus, Fr Kolvenbach said a general congregation to elect his successor and to discuss other important matters would begin on 5 January 2008, in Rome.
Each of the 91 Jesuit provinces in the world will hold a provincial congregation by 1 March 1 2007, to prepare for the Rome gathering.
While the Jesuit superior general is elected for life, the order’s constitutions allow a superior to step down.
Catholic News Service in Rome obtained a copy of Fr Kolvenbach’s letter in Italian; each Jesuit provincial is charged with ensuring that every member of the Jesuits receive a copy.

I know that many Jesuits are peace loving, but they’re also a member of a fraternal order which they swear an oath to uphold. Research the oath and the history of the Jesuits and you’ll understand.

So the “black pope” is real though it references the Superior General. I’m also sure that many ax murderers and child malesters are also loving people, but it doesn’t change the fact of who they are behind close doors.

 

[juliamajor]

Right from the New Advent website:

The name “Societas Jesu” had been born by a military order approved and recommended by Pius II in 1450, the purpose of which was to fight against the Turks and aid in spreading the Christian faith. The early Jesuits were sent by Ignatius first to pagan lands or to Catholic countries; to Protestant countries only at the special request of the pope and to Germany, the cradle-land of the Reformation, at the urgent solicitation of the imperial ambassador.

Wikipedia
The Superior General of the Society of Jesus is the official title of the leader of the Society of Jesus—the Roman Catholic religious order also known as the Jesuits. He is generally addressed as Father General. Because the Jesuits are such a large and influential order, the position carries the nickname of Black Pope, after his simple black priest’s vestments, as contrasted to the white garb of the Pope

Catholic Website
cathnews.com/news/602/30.php
Jesuits to elect new ‘black pope’ in 2008
The superior general of the Jesuits, Dutch Fr Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, has informed members of the Society that he intends to step down in 2008, the year he will turn 80.
Catholic News service reports that in a letter sent on Thursday to all members of the Society of Jesus, Fr Kolvenbach said a general congregation to elect his successor and to discuss other important matters would begin on 5 January 2008, in Rome.
Each of the 91 Jesuit provinces in the world will hold a provincial congregation by 1 March 1 2007, to prepare for the Rome gathering.
While the Jesuit superior general is elected for life, the order’s constitutions allow a superior to step down.
Catholic News Service in Rome obtained a copy of Fr Kolvenbach’s letter in Italian; each Jesuit provincial is charged with ensuring that every member of the Jesuits receive a copy.

I know that many Jesuits are peace loving, but they’re also a member of a fraternal order which they swear an oath to uphold. Research the oath and the history of the Jesuits and you’ll understand.

So the “black pope” is real though it references the Superior General. I’m also sure that many ax murderers and child malesters are also loving people, but it doesn’t change the fact of who they are behind close doors.

love those Chick magazines dontcha! Time to get your tin foil hats brother cause we are in the land of weird. Besides how do we know what your are behind closed doors?