D
Dokimas
Guest
I guess it did; sorry. I love humor. Could you please try it again?
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wmscott
Guest
Another time perhaps, I will wait for another opportunity. Its only funny once.I guess it did; sorry. I love humor. Could you please try it again?
R
ralphy
Guest
Can I assume then that the scriptural quotes use to show that the “rapture” will occur as stated in the Bible have been inserted into scripture about 150 yrs ago, or have they been there since day one. Please explain. Thank you. In Christian love, Ralph.
T
Third_Day
Guest
There aren’t any bible verses that speak of a “secret” rapture.
R
ralphy
Guest
If you will note, I did not say “secret” rapture. The rapture (or taken away) is no secret, it is in scripture, in the original writings of the Bible, and again I ask, are they not older than 150 yrs. In Christian love, Ralph.
E
EbonyEve
Guest
Spirits can only Hear and See in secret.
Souls can only hear and see what is around them
Hebrews:
“he will walk down the middle between soul and spirit”
so why do we not talk about the two divided?
its in the bible
wake up
there is a secret rapture in my house…
but I’m the only one in it
if you were to come to my house
my rapture might become capture
people drain what is love
find love in secret
and you find a secret rapture
find christ in secret
and you find a truth
Souls can only hear and see what is around them
Hebrews:
“he will walk down the middle between soul and spirit”
so why do we not talk about the two divided?
its in the bible
wake up
there is a secret rapture in my house…
but I’m the only one in it
if you were to come to my house
my rapture might become capture
people drain what is love
find love in secret
and you find a secret rapture
find christ in secret
and you find a truth
T
Third_Day
Guest
Yes, the verses in scripture that refer to the rapture have always been in the bible. However the word “rapture” isn’t. That word comes from St. Jerome’s translation of the Greek scriptures into Latin.
The Protestant theology of the “rapture” of all believers is not in the bible. Those who died in God’s grace and those who are alive and in God’s grace at the second coming of Chirst will be taken up (raptured) to meet Jesus in the air as he comes with the angels to judge the living and the dead. That is in the bible.
B
Berean2
Guest
You’re right that it’s not in the Bible, but, um, 3rd, only a certain segment of Protestantism holds this view; it is not part & parcel of classical Protestantism.
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wmscott
Guest
RSV CE 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 (LINK)
15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
From the Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary (LINK)
Ver. 15. *With commandment.*3] God’s command will in a moment raise and bring all to judgment. — And the dead, who are in Christ, in the grace of Christ, shall rise first, not as to time, but in dignity. (Witham) — Shall rise first. Not in order of time, for all shall rise in the twinkling of an eye, but first in order of dignity. St. Chrysostom, however, thinks that the elect rise before the reprobate, to go before the Lord; whereas the latter shall come behind him, only to appear before the tribunal of justice. (St. Chrysostom)
This being recorded in Sacred Scripture, I for one do not buy into the scenario that the “Left Behind” series portrays. I live my life to the best of my ability according to what Christ wants us to, I do not worry about the day when the second coming will be, but when it happens I will be joyful because this is the day I will be reunited in heaven with Christ. Until then I am not going to fret and worry about when that day is, there is too much I have to do to be the best Christian I can be.
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Callin
Guest
Catholics do believe in the rapture. The only reason we don’t call it the “Rapture” is because it will happen during the second coming of Christ, not some time beforehand, so we just lump it in as part of “The Second Coming”.
So yes, there are bible verses which speak of being caught up. What you won’t find are verses that:
So yes, there are bible verses which speak of being caught up. What you won’t find are verses that:
- Describe it as an event separate from the second coming
- Say that Jesus will come twice, once during the rapture and once for the (final) second coming
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Berean,
Your concept of tradition was taught to you what appears to be an anti-Catholic slant.
Those involved in the rapture hoax were as you defined it – a group of businessmen.
The Tradition in the Apostolic, universal/Catholic Church is totally opposite, not here today and gone tomorrow…afterall, the truth about the hoax is finally coming out.
Ours is the Tradition of the inheritance of the Oral Tradition of Jesus Christ that comes to us from the Apostles. Their successors were those open and capable of receiving the fullness of truth. Christ had a community of Apostles, not one person. Tradition always draws from the assent and community of believers. The rapture concept was started by the minister who retracted, and then as you say a group of business men…you can’t call a group of people as representatives of traditions. They had no authority over them either to discern what was true or not.
Your concept of tradition was taught to you what appears to be an anti-Catholic slant.
Those involved in the rapture hoax were as you defined it – a group of businessmen.
The Tradition in the Apostolic, universal/Catholic Church is totally opposite, not here today and gone tomorrow…afterall, the truth about the hoax is finally coming out.
Ours is the Tradition of the inheritance of the Oral Tradition of Jesus Christ that comes to us from the Apostles. Their successors were those open and capable of receiving the fullness of truth. Christ had a community of Apostles, not one person. Tradition always draws from the assent and community of believers. The rapture concept was started by the minister who retracted, and then as you say a group of business men…you can’t call a group of people as representatives of traditions. They had no authority over them either to discern what was true or not.
B
Berean2
Guest
Righto!
That’s why I wrote a couple of posts back that not all Protestants endorse that eschatology.I don’t want to derail this thread, so real quickly:
OE. tradicioun, L. traditio, trāditus , past participle of trādere, to hand over, deliver, entrust: trans = “across, beyond, thru” + dare = “to give”
The unwritten or oral delivery of information, opinions, doctrines, practices, rites, and customs, from father to son, or from ancestors to posterity
the transmission of any knowledge, opinions, or practice, from forefathers to descendants by oral communication, without written memorials
an inherited pattern of thought or action
a specific practice of long standing
a continuing pattern of culture beliefs or practice
custom
in Law, the transfer of property to another.
Kathleen, I’m well-acquainted with the RCC version of tradition (check my profile to see why), but of course, tradition(s) predates the RCC (remember the Pharisees?); not to mention that there’s the long tradition of Hinduism, Judaism, etc. My fascination with how man gets enamored with tradition(s) transcends The Tradition of the RCC: it’s part of my broader (25 year long) study of cults (my mother grew up under the national cult known as Nazism), of the mentality of the leaders as well as the followers. The topic in a sense is a subtopic of epistemology (how do we know what we know/why do we believe what we believe?). In fact, the whole reason I stumbled onto this site was bec. I’m intrigued by the process of conversion (again, a subtopic of epistemology), and was googling Beckwith’s U-Turn.
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mstrickland
Guest
This Rapture “thing” has had me so upset for many months. I converted 6 years ago but was raised Baptist and have a Babtist Grandfather. I have come to the conclusion that it is not worth worrying over because God is The Almighty and Jesus is or Lord and Saviour from whatever event may occur. I will die for the faith or I will sing with the angels in the rapture… does not matter which way I go… What matters is that I live everyday as a gift from God and serve The Lord… We all know that God does not change and we are still humans and The Rapture is not impotant if your love God and Jesus you will accept whatever his will is for you. Read The Bible and spread the good news… Jesus will come again! With much love to my brothers and sisters who have any worry over this issue… FAITH!!!
M
mstrickland
Guest
Thank you. I agree with you.
M
mstrickland
Guest
You are so right. We have only Satan who pretends to be an angel of light to confuse us. The Holy Bible cannot be understood perfectly by everyone because only those that draw near to God,believe in Jesus as The Lord and Savior can receive such knowledge as God chooses for us to receive by reading The Word in The Holy Bible. If we are all running around trying to make sure we get raptured and avoid The Great Tribulation we will lose sight of the very day we are alive in… the day that as a child of God you could be serving your Lord. I will do whatever God wills for me… and yes I do believe that God has a rapture planned and I also believe he has chosen some to suffer the Great Tribulation because they are the ones he knows can endure 'til the end bravely still preach The Gospel for those who need it.
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ralphy
Guest
Here it is: Christ came to earth as a babe in a manger, this was His first coming. He will come again the second time, ( but will not touch the earth, but will only come to the clouds), this is at the last trumpet call, and He will take His Saints (saved people), those who have already died and are in the grave, and immediately the saved who are still alive will follow with them, together they will be forever will be with the Lord, some people call this the “rapture”, or the “taking away”. He will come back again the third time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords with His "raptured " saints with power and might. This “rapture” can occur at any time, as all prophecy, according to the word of God is fulfilled. I now ask you if you are ready to meet Him if He should come tonight. I Christian love , Ralph.
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Callin
Guest
Can you provide scripture verses that support either of the two points you quoted in my post?
- Verses that say Jesus will return “in the clouds” for the rapture, then return again later?
- Verses that describe the rapture as an event completely separate from the Second Coming?
Where is this in the bible?
The Second Coming (or even our own death) can occur at any time. We must always be prepared to meet our Lord.
Peace,
Callin
D
Dokimas
Guest
Good points. No worry for those who live for Jesus and love Him and look forward to His coming.This Rapture “thing” has had me so upset for many months. I converted 6 years ago but was raised Baptist and have a Babtist Grandfather. I have come to the conclusion that it is not worth worrying over because God is The Almighty and Jesus is or Lord and Saviour from whatever event may occur. I will die for the faith or I will sing with the angels in the rapture… does not matter which way I go… What matters is that I live everyday as a gift from God and serve The Lord… We all know that God does not change and we are still humans and The Rapture is not impotant if your love God and Jesus you will accept whatever his will is for you. Read The Bible and spread the good news… Jesus will come again! With much love to my brothers and sisters who have any worry over this issue… FAITH!!!
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Amen to that…live in the Lord, He is our Alpha and Omega!
I find living out the Gospel has enough demands for one day.
I find living out the Gospel has enough demands for one day.
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