Secular Carmelites and those curious

[DBT]

For those wondering what exactly Secular Carmelites do in their vocation, here’s a brief overview. Please keep in mind that I’m new to this . . . and going from memory. I know there are a couple of formation directors around here, so I’ll defer to them if I mistate or forget something

The Daily Rule

1. Daily Mass (to the best of one’s ability)
2. Pray MP and EP from the Liturgy of the Hours. Compline if possible.
3. 1/2 hr mental prayer using Teresian methods
4. An on-going Marian devotion (I believe this is left to the discretion of the individual)
5. On-going study in the writings of the Carmelite Saints.

The Monthly Meeting
Once a month, the individual Seculars meet as a community for about 3-4 hours. I’m not sure if the format of the meetings are the same everywhere, but here’s the model we follow:

1. A guided discussion/lecture by the formation director or experienced professed member on a particular aspect of Carmelite spirituality. Sometimes they work from the Carmelite Studies books which I’ve found very helpful.
2. Business meeting. Enough said.
3. EP from the Liturgy of the Hours and Benediction prayed in the monestary as a community.
4. Group discussions led by professed members. The aspirants (beginners) meet as a group and discuss a variety of introductary matters regarding the Rule and prayer life in general. There are two other groups for members in various stages of formation . . . one on St. John of the Cross, the other on St. Teresa of Avila.
5. A social time for members to get to know each other.
6. Assignments are given based on the reading topic for that month. They aren’t really graded per se but are helpful guides for the individual and the community in the discernment process.

Hope this helps!

P.S. Visitors are always welcome

 

[Teresa9]

We also wear the Brown Scapular and spend 15 - 20 minutes a day meditating on Sacred Scripture or spiritual writings, we also make the effort to live continuously in the presence of God.

We also Celebrate Holy Mass as a community where at this time reconciliation is usually available.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[DBT]

Teresa9:

We also wear the Brown Scapular . . .
Teresa

Yikes! How’d I forget that? Thanks Teresa

 

[Teresa9]

Dear DBT

Well without looking at my manual I wouldn’t have remembered all that you have typed. I only remember the Scapular because I wear it . I spend half my time re-adjusting it, it keeps sneaking out from under my clothing .

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[1_Maria]

DBT and Teresa.

Love your posts. You two seem to bringing a small taste of the life of Carmel to this message board.

Your joy is apparent here in cyberspace.

Many thanks,

Maria

 

[DBT]

Thank you Maria for your kind words.

Yes there is joy . . . A joy that is difficult to explain and also one that has withstood many, many trials.

I’ve come to see this joy from a Teresian perspective. For so long I led a kind of compartmentalized life: I had my prayer life and I had my “regular” life. While I did pray, it was pretty much just Me and God. Then I began to understand a bit of what St. Teresa teaches: that love shouldn’t stored up like money in the bank, it must be freely given back to God through our actions to others. Her descriptions of the interplay between Martha and Mary in our lives are wonderful and have helped me greatly.

Over the last couple of years I’ve become extremely concious of all this within my own family - my wife and kids. Then, for some unknown reason at Thanksgiving I felt a strong urge to start this thread. I just kind of had this vague hope that someone here might begin to see their own relationship with God in the way I’m trying to describe joy.

The 2nd major milestone for me about joy was when I stumbled across Brother Lawrences little book “Practicing the Presence of God.” In his simple way he describes how easy it is - yet somehow very hard at the same time - to lead an integrated life. Simply put - there is to be no compartmentalization . . . prayer IS life. I was litterly hit over the head by this book and came to a deeper understanding of what joy really is.

Lastly, I’ve been thinking a bit on the foundations of prayer as St. Teresa describes: love, humility and detachment. I guess I’ve always seen detachment in a worldly sense . . . but now I’m beginning to see there’s a spiritual side as well. Sometimes I think that posting here is kind of flirting with spiritual attachment . . . especially when distractions at prayer end up being about our posts

Ah, so much to learn . . .

 

[Joysong]

Hello Jen,

I’m sorry to have delayed answering your post until now, but I have finally obtained another computer so I can retrieve the information properly and paste it here. This is a small excerpt from Way of Perfection, Ch.30-31:
Prayer of Quiet

Those to whom, while they are still on earth, He grants what we are asking Him for, receive pledges which will give them a great hope of eventually attaining to a perpetual enjoyment of what on earth He only allows them to taste.

If it were not that you would tell me I am treating of “contemplation,” it would be appropriate, in writing of this petition, to say a little about the beginning of pure contemplation, which those who experience it call the Prayer of Quiet.

---

**

Continues the same subject. Explains what is meant by the Prayer of Quiet. Gives several counsels to those who experience it.**

**

Now, daughters, I still want to describe this Prayer of Quiet to you, in the way I have heard it talked about, and as the Lord has been pleased to teach it to me, perhaps in order that I might describe it to you. It is in this kind of prayer, as I have said, that the Lord seems to me to begin to show us that He is hearing our petition: He begins to give us His Kingdom on earth so that we may truly praise Him and hallow His name and strive to make others do so likewise.

This is a supernatural state, and, however hard we try, we cannot reach it for ourselves; for it is a state in which the soul enters into peace, or rather in which the Lord gives it peace through His presence, as He did to that just man Simeon. In this state all the faculties are stilled. The soul, in a way which has nothing to do with the outward senses, realizes that it is now very close to its God, and that, if it were but a little closer, it would become one with Him through union. This is not because it sees Him either with its bodily or with its spiritual eyes. --skip–

Just so, though less clearly, does the soul know Who He is. It cannot understand how it knows Him, yet it sees that it is in the Kingdom (or at least is near to the King Who will give it the Kingdom), and it feels such reverence that it dares to ask nothing. It is, as it were, in a swoon, both inwardly and outwardly, so that the outward man (let me call it the “body”, and then you will understand me better) does not wish to move, but rests, like one who has almost reached the end of his journey, so that it may the better start again upon its way, with redoubled strength for its task.

The body experiences the greatest delight and the soul is conscious of a deep satisfaction. So glad is it merely to find itself near the fountain that, even before it has begun to drink, it has had its fill. There seems nothing left for it to desire. The faculties are stilled and have no wish to move, for any movement they may make appears to hinder the soul from loving God. They are not completely lost, however, since, two of them being free, they can realize in Whose Presence they are. It is the will that is in captivity now. --skip-- The mind tries to occupy itself with only one thing, and the memory has no desire to busy itself with more: they both see that this is the one thing needful and that anything else will unsettle them.

**

 

[Teresa9]

1 Maria:

DBT and Teresa.

Love your posts. You two seem to bringing a small taste of the life of Carmel to this message board.

Your joy is apparent here in cyberspace.

Many thanks,

Maria

Dear Maria

Thank you for your sincerity and kindness.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you and those you love

Teresa

 

[Teresa9]

Joysong:

Hello Jen,

I’m sorry to have delayed answering your post until now, but I have finally obtained another computer so I can retrieve the information properly and paste it here. This is a small excerpt from Way of Perfection, Ch.30-31:
Prayer of Quiet

---

Dear Carole

Thank you so much. I really enjoyed reading your post

God Bless you and much peace and love to you and those you love

Teresa

 

[Joysong]

Continuing . . .

I think it will be well, sisters, if I give some advice here to any of you whom the Lord, out of His goodness alone, has brought to this state, as I know that this has happened to some of you. First of all, when such persons experience this joy, without knowing whence it has come to them, but knowing at least that they could not have achieved it of themselves, they are tempted to imagine that they can prolong it and they may even try not to breathe. This is ridiculous: we can no more control this prayer than we can make the day break, or stop night from falling; it is supernatural and something we cannot acquire. The most we can do to prolong this favour is to realize that we can neither diminish nor add to it, but, being most unworthy and undeserving of it, can only receive it with thanksgiving. And we can best give thanks, not with many words, but by lifting up our eyes, like the publican.

It is well to seek greater solitude so as to make room for the Lord and allow His Majesty to do His own work in us. The most we should do is occasionally, and quite gently, to utter a single word, like a person giving a little puff to a candle, when he sees it has almost gone out, so as to make it burn again; though, if it were fully alight, I suppose the only result of blowing it would be to put it out. I think the puff should be a gentle one because, if we begin to tax our brains by making up long speeches, the will may become active again.

Note carefully, friends, this piece of advice which I want to give you now. You will often find that these other two faculties are of no help to you. It may come about that the soul is enjoying the highest degree of quiet, and that the understanding has soared so far aloft that what is happening to it seems not to be going on in its own house at all; it really seems to be a guest in somebody else’s house, looking for other lodgings, since its own lodging no longer satisfies it and it cannot remain there for long together. Perhaps this is only my own experience and other people do not find it so. But, speaking for myself, I sometimes long to die because I cannot cure this wandering of the mind. At other times the mind seems to be settled in its own abode and to be remaining there with the will as its companion. When all three faculties work together it is wonderful.

Just so, when the will finds itself in this state of quiet, it must take no more notice of the understanding than it would of a madman, for, if it tries to draw the understanding along with it, it is bound to grow preoccupied and restless, with the result that this state of prayer will be all effort and no gain and the soul will lose what God has been giving it without any effort of its own.

 

[Joysong]

Continuing . . .

Pay great attention to the following comparison, which the Lord suggested to me when I was in this state of prayer, and which seems to me very appropriate. The soul is like an infant still at its mother’s breast: such is the mother’s care for it that she gives it its milk without its having to ask for it so much as by moving its lips. That is what happens here. The will simply loves, and no effort needs to be made by the understanding, for it is the Lord’s pleasure that, without exercising its thought, the soul should realize that it is in His company, and should merely drink the milk which His Majesty puts into its mouth and enjoy its sweetness.

The Lord desires it to know that it is He Who is granting it that favour and that in its enjoyment of it He too rejoices. But it is not His will that the soul should try to understand how it is enjoying it, or what it is enjoying; it should lose all thought of itself, and He Who is at its side will not fail to see what is best for it.

This state of prayer is different from that in which the soul is wholly united with God, for in the latter state it does not even swallow its nourishment: the Lord places this within it, and it has no idea how. But in this state it even seems to be His will that the soul should work a little, though so quietly that it is hardly conscious of doing so.

What disturbs it is the understanding and this is not the case when there is union of all the three faculties, since He Who created them suspends them: He keeps them occupied with the enjoyment that He has given them, without their knowing, or being able to understand, the reason. Anyone who has had experience of this kind of prayer will understand quite well what I am saying if, after reading this, she considers it carefully, and thinks out its meaning: otherwise it will be Greek to her.

When one of you finds herself in this sublime state of prayer, which, as I have already said, is most markedly supernatural, and the understanding (or, to put it more clearly, the thought) wanders off after the most ridiculous things in the world, she should laugh at it and treat it as the silly thing it is, and remain in her state of quiet. For thoughts will come and go, but the will is mistress and all-powerful, and will recall them without your having to trouble about it.

But if you try to drag the understanding back by force, you lose your power over it, which comes from your taking and receiving that Divine sustenance, and neither will nor understanding will gain, but both will be losers. There is a saying that, if we try very hard to grasp all, we lose all; and so I think it is here. Experience will show you the truth of this; and I shall not be surprised if those of you who have none think this very obscure and unnecessary. But, as I have said, if you have only a little experience of it you will understand it and be able to profit by it, and you will praise the Lord for being pleased to enable me to explain it.

Continuing . . .

 

[Joysong]

Finalizing . . .

For clearly, when God has shown us this favour, we shall have to forget worldly things, all of which the Lord of the world has come and cast out. I do not mean that everyone who experiences the Prayer of Quiet must perforce be detached from everything in the world; but at least I should like all such persons to know what they lack and to humble themselves and not to make so great a petition as though they were asking for nothing, and, if the Lord gives them what they ask for, to throw it back in His face. They must try to become more and more detached from everything, for otherwise they will only remain where they are.

If God gives a soul such pledges, it is a sign that He has great things in store for it. It will be its own fault if it does not make great progress. But if He sees that, after He has brought the Kingdom of Heaven into its abode, it returns to earth, not only will He refrain from showing it the secrets of His Kingdom but He will grant it this other favour only for short periods and rarely.

I may be mistaken about this, but I have seen it and know that it happens, and, for my own part, I believe this is why spiritual people are not much more numerous. They do not respond to so great a favour in a practical way: instead of preparing themselves to receive this favour again, they take back from the Lord’s hands the will which He considered His own and centre it upon base things. So He seeks out others who love Him in order to grant them His greater gifts, although He will not take away all that He has given from those who live in purity of conscience.

But there are persons – and I have been one of them – to whom the Lord gives tenderness of devotion and holy inspirations and light on everything. He bestows this Kingdom on them and brings them to this Prayer of Quiet, and yet they deafen their ears to His voice. For they are so fond of talking and of repeating a large number of vocal prayers in a great hurry, as though they were anxious to finish their task of repeating them daily, that when the Lord, as I say, puts His Kingdom into their very hands, by giving them this Prayer of Quiet and this inward peace, they do not accept it, but think that they will do better to go on reciting their prayers, which only distract them from their purpose.

 

[DBT]

Thank you very much Joysong for posting this. I think it adds much to the discussion

 

[DBT]

I think when St. Teresa wrote this 400-500 years ago certain terms were generally understood that might not be so clear today. I’ll cite two examples: the will and the understanding.

I tend to think of our will at prayer as something like our desire, intention or focus. The understanding is our thoughts which, in the context of this prayer, are really distractions.

The states of prayer that St. Teresa describes so well are descriptions of the degree to which these faculties (will and understanding) are suspended by God.

 

[Jenlyn]

Joysong,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my post. Please forgive my ignorance but the Prayer of Quiet, is it the first stage in contemplative prayer? Meaning the first stage of God working within us?

I’m a “just the facts” type person and all the extras she puts in her writing throws off my thinking. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was an outline? First do this, focus on this, this might happen…Just a thought. I know everyone prays differently for who they are but a standard would be great. At least for me.

God bless,
Jen

 

[Joysong]

Hello, Jen,

You:

I want to know if I am understanding the first stage correctly. This is what I know. It is the stage of self-knowledge. It is an important stage. This stage must be done correctly to avoid problems later on with the devil. I do know that the devil will try to confuse and tempt in the other stages but if I understand who I am, self-knowledge, I have a better chance of dealing with him. This stage is also focused on the humility of Christ and comparing it to myself. The word recollection is used alot. Is it examing myself and my sins, my debt to God?

Since you have read Interior Castle, I trust you have seen the beginnings in spirituality that St. Teresa wrote about in the first mansions. It would entail those things you mentioned above, but I believe the Holy Spirit also works within us and helps us to know ourselves. We do the very best we can using pious practices such as frequent examination of conscience and confession, avoiding the occasions of sin, spending time in mental prayer, attending mass and communion often, adoration, etc. He often intervenes with trials designed to open our eyes to our hidden defects of character that impede our journey so that we may correct them.

I have been truly amazed at some of the ways He accomplishes this, for His methods are so far above our imaginings! Yet in spite of all we do to correct those imperfections and sins, there are spiritual roots that we just cannot tear out. That is the purpose of the dark night, as I understand it – to purge those roots of sin that we cannot even detect, but are buried deep in the spirit.

You mentioned “recollection.” I’m not sure whether you mean the efforts we take to be attentive to God by quieting ourselves and placing our hearts and minds in His presence (active recollection because the initiative belongs to the person);
or the infused type of recollection, where God takes the initiative and effects the remembrance of Himself supernaturally, accompanied with peace and spiritual joy. If you read the writings of St. Ignatius, he refers to this as “consolation.” No matter what word we choose to describe it, many recognize it as the beginnings and lower stages of contemplation. I recall a holy man (Brother Lawrence?) saying, “I just look at Him, and He looks at me.”

In supernatural recollection, the will is absorbed as in the prayer of quiet, and there is a sweetness, quiet, and joy. But the difference between the two, is that in the latter, the body shares a deep inebriation together with the spirit, and it is immediately recognized as coming from God. It is one of those experiences that we cannot even imagine until it is granted, and one would have no doubt as to the source being God. The devil may be able to simulate some form of contemplation in the lower stages, but not there.

I hope this is helpful, Jen, and I realize things may seem foggy for a time - they certainly were for me, too. Stay with it and don’t give up. It will become clearer as you study more of these writings and examine your prayer life. What will help you is to compare the things she wrote in each of her books. Some things that are omitted in one book are clearer in another. By putting the two together, you will have a deeper understanding. Your Carmel leaders will know how to bring it all together and help you find the truth.

God’s peace and joy,
Carole

 

[Jenlyn]

DBT,

Thanks for starting this thread. I have had an interest in joining an order to better focus me on my journey to God. I first got interested in it by reading the life of St. Francis. This is when I learned that there were secular orders. I read St. Theresa’s book which lead me to St. Teresa’s books. I have a deep curiosity in her and because of her, prayer. My lyrics have hints of her writings. It’s funny because I wrote them before I read her books. I wrote a “Garden Prayer” and she talks pray that has flowers growing and blooming.

With my interests, writings, and your thread, I think that I am being called to be a secular Carmelite. The only thing is there isn’t any group near me!

Peace,
Jen

 

[Joysong]

Teresa,

Your thread link on the purgative contemplation was very thorough and concise, and I think it is well worth copying into one’s personal library for reference. Thanks so much, and thank you also for commenting on my research from St. Teresa. She is one of the Greats, and I hope many are able to benefit from her wisdom. We can never tire of reading her works, for there is always fresh inspiration that God brings to light.

It meant very much to me to read that you prayed for all of us here on this thread. I truly believe God is calling all of us to deep prayer and unity, and He will use these posts to draw many to Himself in a more committed life of prayer and devotion. I will join you in this effort. There is already a sweetness of spirit in these later posts. God bless you!

DBT,

After reading your last responses, I agree that you have a very good grasp of St. Teresa’s writings and the OCDS rule. Keep up the good work! I’m excited for you, and think that you will be a wonderful help and example in your Chapter.

Carole

 

[Jenlyn]

Joysong:

Hello, Jen,

[Since you have read Interior Castle, I trust you have seen the beginnings in spirituality that St. Teresa wrote about in the first mansions. ]

Yes, I read the first 4 mansions and then stopped. I felt that I had gone far beyond where I am and reading on would not benefit me, only go over my head.

[there are spiritual roots that we just cannot tear out. That is the purpose of the dark night, as I understand it – to purge those roots of sin that we cannot even detect, but are buried deep in the spirit.]

So, those sins that seem to come up over and over again in confession may be because God has to get rid of them?

[You mentioned “recollection.” I’m not sure whether you mean the efforts we take to be attentive to God by quieting ourselves and placing our hearts and minds in His presence (*active

recollection because the initiative belongs to the person);]

This is the one. I didn’t know that there was supernatural recollection.
I would love this!
You have no idea how thick the fog is! You can cut it with a knife.

[Stay with it and don’t give up.]

Yes I will. I there is anything the St. Teresa has drummed in my is keep praying.

[It will become clearer as you study more of these writings and examine your prayer life. What will help you is to compare the things she wrote in each of her books. Some things that are omitted in one book are clearer in another. By putting the two together, you will have a deeper understanding.]

This thread is a big help. Thanks to everyone. :clapping:

[Your Carmel leaders will know how to bring it all together and help you find the truth.]

I realize more than ever I need a spiritual director. There aren’t any Carmelites around me though.

Peace,
Jen**

 

[Joysong]

Dear Jen,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my post. Please forgive my ignorance but the Prayer of Quiet, is it the first stage in contemplative prayer? Meaning the first stage of God working within us?

I’m a “just the facts” type person and all the extras she puts in her writing throws off my thinking. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was an outline? First do this, focus on this, this might happen…Just a thought. I know everyone prays differently for who they are but a standard would be great. At least for me.

Yes, wouldn’t it be great to have an outline! If you finish “A”, you will be ready for “B” - etc.

As a rule, the P/Q is for a later stage of spiritual development as one advances in prayer. When you read the accompanying signs/effects of the person’s spiritual walk after St. Teresa described this prayer, it shows us a goal to which we should be striving, and one that helps to gather some road signs along the way to know whether or not we are straying. These are noted in several of her books.

I hope you are not confused like I was, that this is an ongoing “stage” wherein we bask in quiet. No, this gift is granted only when God chooses, and it is rather short in duration. It usually occurs while a person is already recollected and focused on God, although it may also happen while a person is busy wth external duties, enabling them to be both Mary and Martha simultaneously! Wonderful!

There are no ignorant questions, Jen, for all of us are learners at one time or another. It gives any of us real joy to find someone who loves the Lord enough to ask them! I have a secret heart wish for some members of my family to open their hearts to God as you have done. (I was 37 before I discovered Him.) We are all seeds opening and blossoming in God’s perfect timetable.

Kind regards,
Carole