Secular Carmelites and those curious

[Jenlyn]

Augstine,
Great question! Something I have been wondering about.

Roses,
Thanks for the answers!

Peace,
Jen

P.S. I know I mentioned how much I love this thread but I just want to say it again, I LOVE this thread!!!

 

[DBT]

Augustine:

On the topic of community, if one joins a community, but later, for reason of work or whatever, has to move out of town or even out of state, what would one do then, try to join another community?

TIA

PS: hoping that this wonderful thread isn’t dead…

My understanding is you can join another community if you move. Also, you wouldn’t be starting over in your formation.

I’m less certain of what happens if there isn’t a community in your new city . . . I believe the new constitution has changed the “isolated” status. There are others here who can probably answer the “how-to’s” of this better.

 

[Leo44]

Augustine:

On the topic of community, if one joins a community, but later, for reason of work or whatever, has to move out of town or even out of state, what would one do then, try to join another community?

TIA

PS: hoping that this wonderful thread isn’t dead…

Augustine,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve not been on the computer for a few days, yes if one were to move for any reason you could try to join another community, each community is independent in that they (the council) decides who fits and who doesn’t. I only partly agree with the answer from Teresa, it is VERY IMPORTANT TO LIVE THE CHARISMS, but it is VERY IMPORTANT TO BE IN COMMUNITY, esp. within the first 6 years of formation. Writing would be better than nothing if no community were available.

Remember if you have a vocation to Carmel, this is God’s will for you, and it is His plan for your salvation. It is not to be taken lightly, and is not like joining a club or a bible study group, again I say -if you have a vocation to Carmel-and this is God’s plan for you, how important is it to you, and your salvation? This requires much prayer and thought.

 

[springbreeze]

Leo44:

Augustine,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve not been on the computer for a few days, yes if one were to move for any reason you could try to join another community, each community is independent in that they (the council) decides who fits and who doesn’t. I only partly agree with the answer from Teresa, it is VERY IMPORTANT TO LIVE THE CHARISMS, but it is VERY IMPORTANT TO BE IN COMMUNITY, esp. within the first 6 years of formation. Writing would be better than nothing if no community were available.

Remember if you have a vocation to Carmel, this is God’s will for you, and it is His plan for your salvation. It is not to be taken lightly, and is not like joining a club or a bible study group, again I say -if you have a vocation to Carmel-and this is God’s plan for you, how important is it to you, and your salvation? This requires much prayer and thought.

Dear friend

I am an isolated Carmelite. I can only speak from my formation and instruction, which may not be much use as I am in the Uk and I appreciate you are in the USA.

I can only say that if God has called a person to Carmel and there is no Carmelite order near by, then it is far better to observe the Carmelite rule in daily life than to give up simply because there is no order nearby. It is possible to make meetings from time to time, but not possible to make them on a regular basis. I find it very difficult being isolated in this manner, but I accept this as part of my Cross and try my hardest. Though sometimes I bitterly fail.

I manage to make contact with the Community on the telephone and by letter and find that this is sufficient, but that it has it’s difficulties also. I have not been able to meet with other Third Order Carmelites but have met with the Sisters and have a lovely rapport with them.

If it is a matter of geography, I simply would not let that deter a persons journey with the Lord in Carmel and seek a way to live the charisms, even though one may be isolated.

Neither is more important than the other, I should have said, it is MORE important to persevere even if you are isolated and cannot have the contact you would desire with the Community

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Jenlyn]

A prayer from Brother Lawerence’s book:

“My God, since You are with me and since by You will I must occupy myself with external things, please grant me the grace to remain with you, in You presence. Work with me so that my work might be the very best. Recieve as an offering of love both my work and all my affections.”

After the work is done examine your conscience and praise God for what was good and ask for forgiveness for any faults.

A great prayer for praying unceasingly!

Peace,
Jen

 

[Jenlyn]

Augustine:

I appreciate everybody in this theread who prayed for me.

Last week my wife gathered courage and made an appointment with our pastor about filing for annullment of her previous marriage.

It was just the beginning, but it was the best Christmas gift I got in years!

God bless y’all.

How’s your Christmas gift coming?

Peace,
Jen

 

[Augustine]

Jenlyn:

How’s your Christmas gift coming?

Thanks for asking.

It’s coming slowly. It’ll have to filed abroad and the time zones haven’t helped contacting the local tribunal.

We both need prayers to steel our faith. I’d appreciate if some here would say even a short one for us.

God bless you.

 

[ThornGenX]

My parish has a Secular Carmelite group. They have a strict rule about only having new people start the process of joining in September. I felt drawn to explore the lay Carmelites but did not follow up and the time passed. This September I will have another chance. I have copied some of the rules from a general Carmelite website. Most of them seem clear except for
do manual work, as Paul the Apostle did

Maybe this deserves a seperate thread, but I am not sure exactly what it means.

 

[springbreeze]

Augustine:

Thanks for asking.

It’s coming slowly. It’ll have to filed abroad and the time zones haven’t helped contacting the local tribunal.

We both need prayers to steel our faith. I’d appreciate if some here would say even a short one for us.

God bless you.

Dear Augustine

I will remember you and your wife during Holy Mass and offer my Eucharist for you both on Fridays. Where there is love there is God, He will help you.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[DBT]

Jenlyn:

A prayer from Brother Lawerence’s book:

“My God, since You are with me and since by You will I must occupy myself with external things, please grant me the grace to remain with you, in You presence. Work with me so that my work might be the very best. Recieve as an offering of love both my work and all my affections.”

After the work is done examine your conscience and praise God for what was good and ask for forgiveness for any faults.

A great prayer for praying unceasingly!

Peace,
Jen

Glad to see you’ve discovered Brother Lawrence! He’s wonderful and one of my favorites.

About a month or so ago I started wondering if any modern writer has written as summary of his work . . . kind of what like Fr. Dubay’s “Fire Within” did for St. Teresa and St. John. I couldn’t find anything.

Then I picked up a book that had been siting on my shelf for a long, long time . . . Prayer for Beginners by Peter Kreeft. I glanced at the introduction and saw this whole book was meant to be a modern adaptation of Brother Lawrence! He cites the Jesus Prayer as the first way to begin praying without ceasing.

Here is a link to a web site that has a lot of modern interpretations on how to live Brother Lawrence’s life of unceasing prayer:

www.practicegodspresence.com

I’m not sure who these people are (or their orthodoxy) but I enjoy their essays.

 

[FCEGM]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

I am an isolated Carmelite. I can only speak from my formation and instruction, which may not be much use as I am in the Uk and I appreciate you are in the USA.

I can only say that if God has called a person to Carmel and there is no Carmelite order near by, then it is far better to observe the Carmelite rule in daily life than to give up simply because there is no order nearby. It is possible to make meetings from time to time, but not possible to make them on a regular basis. I find it very difficult being isolated in this manner, but I accept this as part of my Cross and try my hardest. Though sometimes I bitterly fail.

I manage to make contact with the Community on the telephone and by letter and find that this is sufficient, but that it has it’s difficulties also. I have not been able to meet with other Third Order Carmelites but have met with the Sisters and have a lovely rapport with them.

If it is a matter of geography, I simply would not let that deter a persons journey with the Lord in Carmel and seek a way to live the charisms, even though one may be isolated.

Neither is more important than the other, I should have said, it is MORE important to persevere even if you are isolated and cannot have the contact you would desire with the Community

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Teresa, I just happily discovered this thread. I’ve been a member of the Secular Discalced Carmelites for over 25 years and was until three years ago able to participate in a vibrant Community in Santa Clara, CA, where I served for a number of years as Director of Formation (we moved to North Carolina where there is no Community nearby). Although bereft now of my Community and the blessing of attending the monthly meeting, I’ve found that living the more “eremitical” aspect in isolation from other Carmelites can also be a great blessing; the Lord remains attentive to our living-out of our vocation wherever we are.

Through the internet I met another Carmelite in the British Isles; she lives in Skye and is in a similar position as you, although there are two or three other OCDS members in her area.

God bless you as you follow our Holy Mother Teresa’s way.

 

[springbreeze]

FCEGM:

Teresa, I just happily discovered this thread. I’ve been a member of the Secular Discalced Carmelites for over 25 years and was until three years ago able to participate in a vibrant Community in Santa Clara, CA, where I served for a number of years as Director of Formation (we moved to North Carolina where there is no Community nearby). Although bereft now of my Community and the blessing of attending the monthly meeting, I’ve found that living the more “eremitical” aspect in isolation from other Carmelites can also be a great blessing; the Lord remains attentive to our living-out of our vocation wherever we are.

Through the internet I met another Carmelite in the British Isles; she lives in Skye and is in a similar position as you, although there are two or three other OCDS members in her area.

God bless you as you follow our Holy Mother Teresa’s way.

Dear friend

God Bless you! I love this thread, the fellowship here is peaceful and beautiful.

I have for some time been wondering about the fact of so many isolated Carmelites and it has occurred to me that there should be a support network for those isolated; whereby they can have some form of contact with other isolated Carmelite’s. This would be of great support and inspiration.

What do you think of this? I may ask the Sister in charge of my formation about this. I think if people found that isolation would no longer be a difficulty, there may be more people drawn to Carmel and less likely to fall away because of isolation.

Skye is some great distance from me, it is an island off the British Isles. Nevertheless, if some sort of network could be created to keep contact with all isolates, then distance would be of no object!

Yes you are right, the Lord sustains!!

God bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Augustine]

DBT:

He cites the Jesus Prayer as the first way to begin praying without ceasing.

Is it the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox Jesus Prayer, popularized by “The Way of a Pilgrim”?

I’d never heard it being used among Western Catholics…

 

[DBT]

Augustine:

Is it the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox Jesus Prayer, popularized by “The Way of a Pilgrim”?

I’d never heard it being used among Western Catholics…

“Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God, have mercy on me a sinner.” Or more simply “Lord have mercy” or even “Jesus.”

I’m only vaguely familiar with “The Way of a Pilgrim” but I don’t think there’s anything in Peter Kreefts book that should be a cause for concern. I pretty sure he cites Pope John Paul II and the Catechism in his short little chapter on the use of the Jesus Prayer. But Kreeft isn’t promoting the use of this prayer per se. He’s simply trying to teach Brother Lawrence’s way of prayer to beginners . . . hence the name of his book “Prayer For Beginners.”

Peter Kreeft’s point is pretty simple (and orthodox) . . . we need to constantly call our minds back to God, through acts of the will, continually throughout the day. This is essentially the entire teaching of Brother Lawrence. Brother Lawrence, however, was gifted with the ability to offer almost continual spontaneous prayers of the heart . . . something that doesn’t come easily for a lot of people. For this reason Kreeft offers the Jesus Prayer . . . a more rote way perhaps to accomplish the same task. When you get right down to it ANY prayer can work for this . . . it is the habitual training of the will to recall our minds to God repeatedly throughout the day that is the point behind prayer without ceasing. There’s no formula or method to this . . . you just do it.

Brother Lawrence is a fascinating person to me. When I read him I clearly see someone who reached the greatest heights of contemplation. When I read St. Teresa’s description of the 7th mansion in “Interior Castle,” Brother Lawrence is who comes to mind.

However, the beauty of Brother Lawrence is that his “methodless method” is something that is accessible to all and completely within our ability . . . all it takes is our choice to do it. It was this continual training of his will to pray constantly that he called his “Holy Habit.”

The type of prayer Brother Lawrence “lived” is, on one hand something that is very simple, and on the other the highest and purest form of prayer we can practice before God takes over through infused contemplation. Essentially Brother Lawrence lived 24/7 in a state of readiness for the Lord’s call.

For this reason, he is a great inspiration to me. He recommends the “Practice of the Presence of God” to everyone. The paradox of it to me, though, is its very simplicity is what makes it so difficult to practice

 

[Jenlyn]

DBT:

Prayer for Beginners by Peter Kreeft. .

I have this book. I will have to look at it again.:yup:

Peace,
Jen

 

[DBT]

Jenlyn:

I have this book. I will have to look at it again.:yup:

Peace,
Jen

I got this book (Prayer For Beginners) a long time ago but never read it. I guess a big dose of spiritual pride kept me from opening it

While I prefer going directly to the source (Brother Lawrence) there were some good things in this book. I particularily liked how he talked about the importance of “listening.”

Sometimes I think it’s easy for us to talk so much at prayer that we drown out the quiet call of God. Kreeft does a pretty good job of showing us how to recognize when God is speaking and makes it pretty clear that the “wise” person would recognize the need to be quiet and listen. While there is nothing new or suprising in any of this, he said it in such a way that it made an impact on me. It gave new meaning to me for when Brother Lawrence uses phrases like “gazing upon God.”

 

[Augustine]

DBT:

While I prefer going directly to the source…

So do I. For example, I’d rather read a writing of St. Augustine’s than a comment on it.

While there’s some pride in this habit, I also feel close to a saint in Heaven, as if he or she were right beside me teaching me.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

I have truly come to believe that there is no greater prayer (other than Holy Mass), than the quiet exchange of love between the Beloved and the lover. For the human spirit to raise love to the Almighty. This quiet prayer of trust where the heart and mind are raised in silence and pure Love receives love and is a pure flight and exchange of love, a Love that could almost make us die from the receipt of it.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Augustine]

“Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God, have mercy on me a sinner.” Or more simply “Lord have mercy” or even “Jesus.”

In “The Way of a Pilgrim”, it’s: “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Or something like that, translating my recollection into English.
I’m only vaguely familiar with “The Way of a Pilgrim” but I don’t think there’s anything in Peter Kreefts book that should be a cause for concern.
Oh, I din’t bring up “The Way of a Pilgrim”, a Russian Orthodox book, implying that any resemblance with it should be regarded as a “red flag”. On the contrary, the Eastern Church developed a deep spirituality too, though distinct from our Western one. Without either being better than the other, just more familiar to some.
Peter Kreeft’s point is pretty simple (and orthodox) . . . we need to constantly call our minds back to God, through acts of the will, continually throughout the day.
The motivation of “The Pilgrim” was to follow St. Paul’s recommendation “to pray always”.
… it is the habitual training of the will to recall our minds to God repeatedly throughout the day that is the point behind prayer without ceasing.
In my case, after a while, I was saying the Prayer of the Heart, as it’s known in the Orthodox Church, without even being conscious of it. I concluded that it wasn’t an honorable way of invoking our Lord’s Name.

Not that I’m positive about this, I stopped saying it out of caution. After all, Grace doesn’t depend on us and satan detests the Lord’s Name in anyway one says It.
*For this reason, he is a great inspiration to me. He recommends the “Practice of the Presence of God” to everyone. The paradox of it to me, though, is its very simplicity is what makes it so difficult to practice.

• The practice of God’s Presence actually makes more sense to me. The first time I heard about it, I thought it seemd as the Western version of the Prayer of the Heart. But I know very little about it, yet it looked very attractive.

God bless you.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

I have truly come to believe that there is no greater prayer (other than Holy Mass), than the quiet exchange of love between the Beloved and the lover. For the human spirit to raise love to the Almighty. This quiet prayer of trust where the heart and mind are raised in silence and pure Love receives love and is a pure flight and exchange of love, a Love that could almost make us die from the receipt of it.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa