Secular Third Orders

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JReducation said:
Can. 303 Associations whose members share in the spirit of some religious institute while in secular life, lead an apostolic life, and strive for Christian perfection under the higher direction of the same institute are called third orders or some other appropriate name.

Under the higher direction is defined by the constitutions, the rule (if they have one) and its tradition.
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That sums it up quite nicely. Thanks Brother…
 
JReducation said:
I don’t see why you keep bringing up Canon 303. Canon 303 is deliberately vague so that it does not have to go into explicit details about the different kinds of secular orders.
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Why?

I am bringing up for it is the canon that is in common for all secular third orders.

I started this thread not about any particular Secular Order --but Secular Third Orders in General.

Details can differ among the various Secular Orders.

And wonderfully they do 🙂
 
In the 12th century there came into existence a religious movement called the humiliati or the “humbled ones”. The Humiliati had a third order which consisted of laypersons who lived a rule of life while remaining in the world. The Humiliati third order rule was approved by Pope Innocent III in June of the year 1201. This third order of the humiliati can thus be seen as some of the very first tertiaries.

(See Andrews, The Early Humiliati pp. 100, 256 (Cambridge University Press, 1999),
 
Bookcat - it seems to me that you do not belong to any third order but instead only have an interest so I do not understand what your interest is in trying to tell members or those in profession or those in pastoral positions of third orders what the role of their orders are?
 
joanofarc2008 said:
Bookcat - it seems to me that you do not belong to any third order but instead only have an interest so I do not understand what your interest is in trying to tell members or those in profession or those in pastoral positions of third orders what the role of their orders are?
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I have no interest in telling those in pastoral positions in third orders what their roles are. Or members of various third orders what their particular charisms etc are etc. etc. 🙂

(my apologies for any mis-steps or misunderstandings from anything I posted …or any fault on my part…)

But in threads it can happen that various participants do not agree or misunderstand each other or have various view points. Such is the nature of threads.

And heck even someone with a doctorate in a subject can disagree with others with similar credentials. Or be very wrong on some aspect! (my wife tells me I can be wrong …but not sure what she means there…:rolleyes:.) Certainly I can be wrong on something -I can make a mistake. I can miss something etc etc. Such is the nature of things.

I started this thread on third orders *in **general *which others have found interesting.

In addition to my research during my time at Franciscan University of Steubenville I continued my research after my degree (hence a particular interest) in older writings as well as current and gathering the various rules constitutions and being in conversation with some in the various third orders (directors etc) … in view of writing more. But that was a number of years ago.

I also did mention that yes I am a professed member of a third order and have served in leadership as well as in formation. As I also noted I do not know all the internals of the various groups in detail 🙂 (certainly not by experience) --one reason why the thread was more on third orders* in general*. And one of the reasons I set aside plans to write more on the subject at length was due in part to the great variety in the differing “details” beyond that which they all share in common.

Anyhow this thread was meant to note some general aspects of the vocation. Not to descend into all sorts of details of the various orders.
 
Bookcat said:
I have no interest in telling those in pastoral positions in third orders what their roles are. Or members of various third orders what their particular charisms etc are etc. etc. 🙂

(my apologies for any mis-steps or misunderstandings from anything I posted …or any fault on my part…)

But in threads it can happen that various participants do not agree or misunderstand each other or have various view points. Such is the nature of threads.

And heck even someone with a doctorate in a subject can disagree with others with similar credentials. Or be very wrong on some aspect! (my wife tells me I can be wrong …but not sure what she means there…:rolleyes:.) Certainly I can be wrong on something -I can make a mistake. I can miss something etc etc. Such is the nature of things.

I started this thread on third orders *in **general *which others have found interesting.

In addition to my research during my time at Franciscan University of Steubenville I continued my research after my degree (hence a particular interest) in older writings as well as current and gathering the various rules constitutions and being in conversation with some in the various third orders (directors etc) … in view of writing more. But that was a number of years ago.

I also did mention that yes I am a professed member of a third order and have served in leadership as well as in formation. As I also noted I do not know all the internals of the various groups in detail 🙂 (certainly not by experience) --one reason why the thread was more on third orders* in general*. And one of the reasons I set aside plans to write more on the subject at length was due in part to the great variety in the differing “details” beyond that which they all share in common.

Anyhow this thread was meant to note some general aspects of the vocation. Not to descend into all sorts of details of the various orders.
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Ok then which third order are you a member of. Since you have made the statement it seems a fair question to ask.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
Ok then which third order are you a member of. Since you have made the statement it seems a fair question to ask.
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Sure it is a fair question to ask

However I have decided to seek try to keep personal details here somewhat to a minimum (as I think is suggested in the forum info). I do not even tell my friends of my “alter ego” here on the forum 🙂
 
Bookcat said:
Sure it is a fair question to ask

However I have decided to seek try to keep personal details here somewhat to a minimum (as I think is suggested in the forum info). I do not even tell my friends of my “alter ego” here on the forum 🙂
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That means I have no reason to believe that you belong to any third order, Bookcat.

There are many REAL threads on third orders in this forum, with good verifiable information on this topic. I recommend that people go and read those instead of this one. And search out members of real 3rd orders who are willing to identify themselves as members and talk about their third orders. There is some good information on this topic in CAF, but most of it isn’t in this thread.
 
iloveangels said:
That means I have no reason to believe that you belong to any third order, Bookcat.

There are many REAL threads on third orders in this forum, with good verifiable information on this topic. I recommend that people go and read those instead of this one. And search out members of real 3rd orders who are willing to identify themselves as members and talk about their third orders. There is some good information on this topic in CAF, but most of it isn’t in this thread.
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👍
 
Bookcat said:
Sure it is a fair question to ask

However I have decided to seek try to keep personal details here somewhat to a minimum (as I think is suggested in the forum info). I do not even tell my friends of my “alter ego” here on the forum 🙂
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I have never heard of someone belonging to a religious order with your claimed level of involvement who did not wish to be identified as such, particularly in an anonymous forum. This seems very odd to me.
 
Bookcat said:
Sure it is a fair question to ask

However I have decided to seek try to keep personal details here somewhat to a minimum (as I think is suggested in the forum info). I do not even tell my friends of my “alter ego” here on the forum 🙂
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I have never heard of someone belonging to a religious order with your claimed level of involvement who did not wish to be identified as such, particularly in an anonymous forum. This seems very odd to me. You happily throw out where you went to school and what your research background is, which gives anyone with half a mind to, the ability to easily track you down. But, you refrain from sharing which order you claim to belong to?
 
If anyone where to read the various posts I post in say the morality theology forum etc one will find that my posts are very much in keeping with the Teachings of the Church and the promotion of a faithful Christian life. With great fidelity to Pope Benedict XVI.

Why on earth would I then go and lie here? Such would be completely inconsistent and quite out of character.

PS: heck I have posted a number of times on the intrinsic evil of lying…
 
Bookcat said:
If anyone where to read the various posts I post in say the morality theology forum etc one will find that my posts are very much in keeping with the Teachings of the Church and the promotion of a faithful Christian life. With great fidelity to Pope Benedict XVI.

Why on earth would I then go and lie here? Such would be completely inconsistent and quite out of character.

PS: heck I have posted a number of times on the intrinsic evil of lying…
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We are sinful creatures as humans. Part of being in a third/secular/lay order at least from a Franciscan standpoint from my own understanding is to live the Rule according to the founder in a public way carrying this way of life to the secular world - it is* not* a private devotional society. This means that many of us are more than willing to tell others about our charisms even those that are in formation. It just makes no sense. I would not personally think you are lying but maybe have a misunderstanding of what it means to live that way of life however one cannot know that without knowing which charism you are living.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
We are sinful creatures as humans. Part of being in a third/secular/lay order at least from a Franciscan standpoint from my own understanding is to live the Rule according to the founder in a public way carrying this way of life to the secular world - it is* not* a private devotional society. This means that many of us are more than willing to tell others about our charisms even those that are in formation. It just makes no sense. I would not personally think you are lying but maybe have a misunderstanding of what it means to live that way of life however one cannot know that without knowing which charism you are living.
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This is an anon. forum. I am sorry it does not make sense to you. One can be public with ones charism and choose to remain anon. in an anon forum. As I noted I do not even tell my friends what my name here is. That is my personal choice.
 
Bookcat said:
This is an anon. forum. I am sorry it does not make sense to you. One can be public with ones charism and choose to remain anon. in an anon forum. As I noted I do not even tell my friends what my name here is. That is my personal choice.
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OK and the third orders that we are speaking of have enough people that expressing one’s charism is not going to give up their anonymity. Just because someone is OFS that narrows it down to what 14,500 of us in the US as of 2002 according to Wikipedia - that number has grown. Don’t know about the others. Regardless if you didn’t want to say it you should not have brought it up to bolster your expertise. I would think all of your other credentials that you have put out there surely have more of a chance of getting you “picked out” then which charism you belong to. That is why I do not understand. Regardless this is a done subject.
 
Discuss 3rd Orders, NOT each other.

The next post that talks about a poster and not the topic will result in infractions and this thread will be closed.
 
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