Seeking forgiveness of sin from God

[Vico]

…

A sacrament can be without effect if the disposition is not proper.

For the sacraments of the living (in spirit), there is no increase of sanctifying grace without already having a state of sanctifying grace.

The two sacraments of the dead (in spirit) are baptism and penance. At minimum, baptism is needed with the proper disposition. Faith is not yet mature and will grow in time. If a baptized person falls into mortal sin then the state of sanctifying grace is lost but penance is the remedy. More that baptism is required for one must (John 15:4-6) “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth.”

There is sacramental and non-sacramental forgiveness of sins. With perfect contrition and the intention to confess individually in the sacrament later, sins may be forgiven. For either sacramental or non-sacramental forgiveness of sin, if the contrition is a lie or the intention is false – there is no proper disposition, so there is no forgiveness, even if a priest gave absolution.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.66 In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.

66 Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1316.

1431 Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life, a return, a conversion to God with all our heart, an end of sin, a turning away from evil, with repugnance toward the evil actions we have committed. At the same time it entails the desire and resolution to change one’s life, with hope in God’s mercy and trust in the help of his grace. This conversion of heart is accompanied by a salutary pain and sadness which the Fathers called animi cruciatus (affliction of spirit) and compunctio cordis (repentance of heart).24

24 Cf. Council Of Trent (1551): DS 1676-1678; 1705; Cf. Roman Catechism , II,V,4.

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

50 Council of Trent (1551): DS 1676.

 

[mcq72]

I agree with you…either way it is being done in front of God and He is the one who forgives. The man in front of you can be admittedly fooled and even more unsettling, he may be more full of sin than you are!

Agree also. It seems like the old covenant format all over again. Because of sin/ unbelief the national priesthood was put off, in favor of a priestly class/ tribe. Together you and the priest offered the sacrificial animal to God. The priest was also a sinner and could only go into the holy of holies once a year, and under strict guidelines.

Scripture tells us that the curtain separating the holy place was torn in two by the cross. Elsewhere it says we can boldly go before the presence of God, even that we are seated in heavenly places now. So not sure why you would need a priest exclusively again to offer repentance or ask forgiveness before and of God.

Yet we are all priests now as Peter tells us, and we can confess faults/ sins one to another as James tells us, but not for absolution which comes from God, but for help etc., for we are a body, bearing each others burdens.

 

[annad347]

Salvation, forgiveness…these are not purely personal (or indidivudal) transactions between God>man. They take place in the context of the Church, because that’s who Christ is.

But in either case you are not allow, Gid is present. If you sin against a person the person and God is present. Also what @Vico posted proves you arent alone.

Dont get me wrong, confessing to a priest is very important mainly because sometime people do need that physical connection, some sins are not easy to confess, and sometimes people need support and advise.

You are on knees begging please God forgive me, your body is shaking from your cries of remorse for what you did. Tears are streaming down your face so hard they are soaking the collar of your shirt. You are praying for forgivness so long your knees are bloody and raw. but unless you confess to a priest, you arent being heard by God?

Bottom line if you do that in front of the person you sinned against, in front of a priest or directly in front of God, if you dont meant it you will not receive forgivness… so again I ask, why is one method of confession is correct when the other is wrong.

 

[Vico]

… why is one method of confession is correct when the other is wrong.

One is ordinary (the sacrament) and the other is extraordinary (non sacrament). The priest gives guidance and also may remove excommunication in the sacrament. The Church is also harmed by sin and it is necessary to resolve this and penance is given to the penitent. The power to bind and loose sin was given to the Church (Peter and the apostles united with him). The sacrament is superior because it can be used when the contrition is imperfect and also because the Church requires it.

1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ’s solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."45 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."46

45 Mt 16:19; cf. Mt 18:18; 28:16-20.
46 LG 22 § 2.

1445 The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

It seems like the old covenant format all over again.

Didn’t He come to fulfill and not abolish the Old Covenant?

Scripture tells us that the curtain separating the holy place was torn in two by the cross.

It also tells us that the Apostles had the keys and power to forgive sins.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

I agree with you…either way it is being done in front of God and He is the one who forgives. The man in front of you can be admittedly fooled and even more unsettling, he may be more full of sin than you are!

It comes from the work worked. If God can’t forgive sins through a priest why should he work in you, by your logic?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

I agree with you…either way it is being done in front of God and He is the one who forgives. The man in front of you can be admittedly fooled and even more unsettling, he may be more full of sin than you are!

It comes from the work worked. If God can’t forgive sins through a priest why should he work in you, by your logic?

You are not making sense to me. God works in me concerning my own sin not someone else’s.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

You are not making sense to me

Why should you speak for God assuming you are as sinful as I am? Do you see the flaw in your logic?

 

[Wannano]

No. I am not getting your point.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

No. I am not getting your point.

Read it again.

 

[Wannano]

Three times now. Tell me what I am missing.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Three times now. Tell me what I am missing

I’m not the type of person who likes repeating himself.

 

[Wannano]

Well I am sorry, I cannot seem to connect the dots. I am trying to understand your point…Thanks.

 

[mcq72]

Didn’t He come to fulfill and not abolish the Old Covenant?

Yes, and why thru Him we are now a royal and holy priesthood, as originally planned but not fulfilled in OT.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

and why thru Him we are now a royal and holy priesthood,

But not everyone has the priestly duty of ministering to the people of God.

There’s still a ministerial priesthood.

Isaiah 66:20-21 promises exactly that.

 

[mcq72]

It also tells us that the Apostles had the keys and power to forgive sins.

Yes they did, thru and by the gospel of Christ Jesus. The gospel is powerful and remedies the ancient and present universal reality of sin.

“Then Peter said unto them (after using his keys to preach the first gospel after/at Pentecost), Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV

This is explicit use of keys and power to forgive sins. As one reformer put it, to the glory and honor of the preaching of the gospel, of the call to be preachers not confessors.

 

[mcq72]

But not everyone has the priestly duty of ministering to the people of God.

There’s still a ministerial priesthood.

Isaiah 66:20-21 promises exactly that

Yes, but the priesthood has changed, and so have the people of God, in a dispensational sense. You can not deny that priests now minister to priests, or that the ministry has changed. We no longer offer sacrifices for sin but of praise and holy living , our lives a living sacrifice continually. The heireus priest is succeeded by the Melchizadek priest, which we follow in.

“(Paul) ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be made acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Spirit.”

“And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations, …as like an offering in a clean vessel” isa.66.20.KJV

Yes today there are presbyters/bishops, even leaders, and certainly their ministry overlaps in some areas to OT Levites (shepherding, teaching).

 

[Julius_Caesar]

We no longer offer sacrifices for sin but of praise and holy living , our lives a living sacrifice continually.

The sacrifice of the Mass is the one sacrifice for the sins of the world. So you’re wrong there.

You can not deny that priests now minister to priests, or that the ministry has changed.

Has the ministry been upgraded? Yes. Is it fundamentally different? No.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

As one reformer put it, to the glory and honor of the preaching of the gospel, of the call to be preachers not confessors.

That reformer would not be making an accurate claim. He’d even be shifting the words of Jesus.

For the Fathers of the Church, the Apostles were conduits of God’s forgiveness.

John Chrysostom:
For if no one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious?

 

[annad347]

I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious?

Through Jesus Christ… I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father