Seeking good arguments against gay adoption

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A girl I work with saw that on my Facebook page I voted “No” on a “Do you think homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children?” poll. I don’t usually “friend” co-workers on facebook, but she asked me twice, we get along in spite of our massive differences in beliefs and morals, and anyway she always likes debating with me, so I added her. Well, now - and I knew this was coming - she wants to debate gay adoption with me over lunch on Monday. I see this as a good chance to really educate someone on Church teaching and moral common sense - and maybe even give her some food for serious thought - so I really don’t want to mess this up. So - can anyone out there give me some good ideas for arguments against gay adoption/marraige in favour of traditional marriage/families? Any pointers are appreciated.

Thanks!
 
The need for both a male and female role model is always a nice one
 
A child deserves an environment that contains the whole of humanity to form the core of themselves. An environment of man entire in a bond of giving without self interest. Same sex couples can only offer the half of what makes man whole. What are joined when two of the same are together? There is no marriage unless ‘two’ become one. Two of the same are still half of one when man is considered as a whole.
 
A child deserves an environment that contains the whole of humanity to form the core of themselves. An environment of man entire in a bond of giving without self interest. Same sex couples can only offer the half of what makes man whole. What are joined when two of the same are together? There is no marriage unless ‘two’ become one. Two of the same are still half of one when man is considered as a whole.
👍
Cannot improve on this. This is exactly my position as well, as both Benadam and I have stated many times on CAF.

To the OP: I would stick with this as your premise, and not drift off into the category of sin & morals. Your opponent will merely say that nonbelievers are not bound by Catholic belief, and that state laws are secular matters, not religious concerns. I wouldn’t even go into ‘natural law,’ as that is a philosophical premise that is shared by many outside Catholicism, but rejected by many as well. Although I personally feel comfortable with the extension of natural law as a basis for civil law, technically speaking the courts have not upheld that natural law is the foundation for American civil law.

I would, however, stick with nature. (There’s a difference.) I would stay within biology and social structures. I can promise you that many, many adovcates for legitimizing same-sex unions would be horrified at the prospect of manipulating biological structures in other animal kingdoms. It would be considered unnatural, invasive, anti-environmental, immoral (unethical), and even dangerous. If she begins to go on and on about the supposed “naturalness” of homosexuality in nature, I would point on that such occurrences are limited & specific, in response to environmental pressures of the moment - such as animals of one gender in captivity (which also mirrors human prison behavior, by the way), such as animals using same-sex activity as a limited & temporary means to an end. (Always that end is preserving the heterosexual dominance of the group.)

I would point out that no civilization in history, regardless of how much homosexuality was practiced (both in and out of heterosexual marriage), has ever institutionalized and legitimized homosexual marriage. And for good reason. It has never been considered as something promoting orderly social structures. It has no value in that regard. From a biological point of view, the purpose of marriage is the continuation of the species within a structured environment. (Other animal species very much rely on structure, too.) From an evolutionary point of view, homosexual “marriage” does not further the continuation of the species. In order to continue the species within a homosexual union, one must go outside of the bounds of one’s union, seeking artificial sources (anonymous sperm banks) and/or using heterosexual unions for that purpose: that becomes an issue of the manipulation of other human beings for private purposes. Neither “solution” is intrinsic to that “marital” union, so in itself that union does not promote the continuation of the species.

(I know opponents here are going to pick up on the fact that straight couples go outside of their marital unions in their reproductive choices, but I’m not really discussing here whether such choices should be available to either gays or straights; I, and the Catholic Church, believe they should not be available to gays or straights. I’m discussing whether intrinsically, gay partnerships further the continuation of the species, which they do not.)

The central argument is the one Benadam stated, and this is the most essential thing, universally, across all cultures, all religions (and lack thereof), and all eras: the irreplaceable otherness of male vs female as essential to the full development of the human psyche, and the family unit as the most important location for the development of that psyche. Husband and wife are not interchangeable, mother and father are not interchangeable, male and female are separate identities which are also absolute archetypes.
 
Editing my own arguments:

I know the issue is gay adoption that will be the topic for debate, not gay marriage per se, but the point is that the environment in which that adoption would take place is an essential aspect of adoption. The child would be brought into a unit in which the otherness of male and female is absent and in which the child has no pattern for understanding the essential role of heterosexual marriage as the basis of family. Again, other animal species, no matter how extended the family, revolve around differentiated male and female purposes, and by this the progeny learn how to function within their own societies.

I would also point out to your co-worker that role =/= gender. Those are two different aspects of humanness. Gender is essential to identity; role, while it may be very important to identity, and for some people more important than it is for other people, is not the core aspect of the human person. The evidence that gender is essential to identity can be seen in the pain that people endure when experiencing gender dysphoria and the efforts they go to, to resolve that feeling of dis-ease.
 
I see nothing wrong with it.

The only sin is homosexual activity…

Which that one sin has nothing to do with good parenting so it’s okay. But that doesn’t mean the couple is sinning by themselves but they can adopt if they want too.

I say yes​

Plus if she’s not catholic anything you say is garbage to her ears:
 
If gays shouldn’t adopt because the child wouldn’t have a male and female model, does that apply to single heterosexual people? Should they be forbidden to adopt?

And how about all those single mothers? Are those kids being deprived as folks think gays’ kids would be? That would seem to be a much. much larger problem than gay adoption.
 
If gays shouldn’t adopt because the child wouldn’t have a male and female model, does that apply to single heterosexual people? Should they be forbidden to adopt?

And how about all those single mothers? Are those kids being deprived as folks think gays’ kids would be? That would seem to be a much. much larger problem than gay adoption.
Heterosexuality in of it’self presents the whole of man. Heterosexual mothers present an image of the whole of man without the physical presence of a father albeit less powerfully. Hetrosexuality infused into the social environment presents an image of the whole of man.
 
Heterosexuality in of it’self presents the whole of man. Heterosexual mothers present an image of the whole of man without the physical presence of a father albeit less powerfully. Hetrosexuality infused into the social environment presents an image of the whole of man.
Give me exact quoted of this rather than your opinions…

So bisexual or gay single women cannot raised children that had kids because if a failed straight or rape situation. I believe they can. Sexuality of a single mother doesn’t matter, and I said single.
 
If gays shouldn’t adopt because the child wouldn’t have a male and female model, does that apply to single heterosexual people? Should they be forbidden to adopt?

And how about all those single mothers? Are those kids being deprived as folks think gays’ kids would be? That would seem to be a much. much larger problem than gay adoption.
Single heterosexuals should not be preferred (on the top of the list) when it comes to eager candidates to adopt children. And btw, even many people in favor of gay “marriage” and gay adoption – including gay people themselves – agree that straight, emotionally healthy and financially stable couples should be on the top of the list to adopt children. Thus, no history of domestic abuse or child abuse, character references from those who know the couple as a couple and as individuals, etc.

Second on the preference list would be single heterosexuals, and with the same standards as stated above. And why prefer them to gay couples? Because there is a chance that the single heterosexual will pair with an opposite gender partner. In a single-gender but dual-“parent” household, ***there will never be a partner of the opposite gender as the primary parent figure. ***I don’t care how many supposed aunts, uncles, cousins, & grandparents there are – because the child will not identify these others as primary role models from which to forge an identity.

I know two single straight women who have adopted (in one case a girl from overseas, in another case a boy from overseas); I regret to say (although she is not a close friend) I also know a straight woman who gave birth to a son conceived from an anonymous sperm bank. These three single women – as well as every widow and every divorced woman that I personally know well – has struggled, without a marriage partner, to do a sufficient job of parenting. There is much more success in the case of divorcees, if the biological father is heavily involved. (I’m leaving aside the question of remarriage and consequent step-parenting for the moment.) Single parenthood is hardly an alternative ideal, but it has a chance of working, and a good chance, especially when eventually there are two caring parent-partners involved, who are modeling healthy heterosexual love.

So the question arises: in the case of adoption as a rescue – such as from Third World conditions, refugee children, or any situation less desirable than the nuclear two-parent heterosexual family, should a single heterosexual be allowed to adopt? Again, ***if no better option comes forward, yes. *** Just be aware that deliberate single parenthood, like accidental single parenthood, has its pitfalls.

JMO!
 
^ Madonna now a single mother seems to raised her kids and her third world country kid pretty well.

Strictly talking about parenting.
 
Give me exact quoted of this rather than your opinions…

So bisexual or gay single women cannot raised children that had kids because if a failed straight or rape situation. I believe they can. Sexuality of a single mother doesn’t matter, and I said single.
Jack I would just refer you to Elizabeth502’s post. # 12
 
Heterosexuality in of it’self presents the whole of man. Heterosexual mothers present an image of the whole of man without the physical presence of a father albeit less powerfully. Hetrosexuality infused into the social environment presents an image of the whole of man.
Men are women and women are men? Do they know that? And the kids don’t know the difference? Sounds like bi-sexuals.
 
Single heterosexuals should not be preferred (on the top of the list) when it comes to eager candidates to adopt children. And btw, even many people in favor of gay “marriage” and gay adoption – including gay people themselves – agree that straight, emotionally healthy and financially stable couples should be on the top of the list to adopt children. Thus, no history of domestic abuse or child abuse, character references from those who know the couple as a couple and as individuals, etc.

Second on the preference list would be single heterosexuals, and with the same standards as stated above. And why prefer them to gay couples? Because there is a chance that the single heterosexual will pair with an opposite gender partner. In a single-gender but dual-“parent” household, ***there will never be a partner of the opposite gender as the primary parent figure. ***I don’t care how many supposed aunts, uncles, cousins, & grandparents there are – because the child will not identify these others as primary role models from which to forge an identity.

I know two single straight women who have adopted (in one case a girl from overseas, in another case a boy from overseas); I regret to say (although she is not a close friend) I also know a straight woman who gave birth to a son conceived from an anonymous sperm bank. These three single women – as well as every widow and every divorced woman that I personally know well – has struggled, without a marriage partner, to do a sufficient job of parenting. There is much more success in the case of divorcees, if the biological father is heavily involved. (I’m leaving aside the question of remarriage and consequent step-parenting for the moment.) Single parenthood is hardly an alternative ideal, but it has a chance of working, and a good chance, especially when eventually there are two caring parent-partners involved, who are modeling healthy heterosexual love.

So the question arises: in the case of adoption as a rescue – such as from Third World conditions, refugee children, or any situation less desirable than the nuclear two-parent heterosexual family, should a single heterosexual be allowed to adopt? Again, ***if no better option comes forward, yes. *** Just be aware that deliberate single parenthood, like accidental single parenthood, has its pitfalls.

JMO!
So, I guess that kills the notion that gays shouldn’t adopt because of a lack of opposite sex role models. If single straights are number two on the list…

Single parenthood has a chance of working? It’s working in millions of homes right now. It even works when there is not an eventual partner. All we have to do is look around.
 
So, I guess that kills the notion that gays shouldn’t adopt because of a lack of opposite sex role models. If single straights are number two on the list…

Single parenthood has a chance of working? It’s working in millions of homes right now. It even works when there is not an eventual partner. All we have to do is look around.
Only those of us who have been both married parents and single parents understand how limited and limiting single parenting is for our children. That is apart from whether a former marriage was good or bad: just the difference between single and dual parenting.

Some single parenting households “work” better than others, comparatively speaking. but as one who was raised in a dysfunctional but intact heterosexual household, I appreciate how much more complete my own raising was, versus all of the single households I have known in my life. I benefited immeasurably from both genders as constant parents in a way that those without both genders have not. That’s, again, despite my parents’ often troubled marriage. To pretend that single parenting is on a plane with two heterosexual parents who are essentially competent as parents is to deceive oneself.
 
Only those of us who have been both married parents and single parents understand how limited and limiting single parenting is for our children. That is apart from whether a former marriage was good or bad: just the difference between single and dual parenting.

Some single parenting households “work” better than others, comparatively speaking. but as one who was raised in a dysfunctional but intact heterosexual household, I appreciate how much more complete my own raising was, versus all of the single households I have known in my life. I benefited immeasurably from both genders as constant parents in a way that those without both genders have not. That’s, again, despite my parents’ often troubled marriage. To pretend that single parenting is on a plane with two heterosexual parents who are essentially competent as parents is to deceive oneself.
I don’t think anyone said single parent homes were generally on a par with two parent homes. The question is about whether single status should be a disqualifying factor in adoption. I think our experience shows this is not true.

We might also note that any fool can become a parent. It takes no talent to do that. There is no screening process. I’d suggest many singles who pass the adoption screening process are qual or better than many natural two parent units.
 
Men are women and women are men? Do they know that? And the kids don’t know the difference? Sounds like bi-sexuals.
:ehh: Willie, what image is reinforced in the mind of a child who’s mother is heterosexual. . If you can, imagine the image of humanity that is reinforced in a child’s mind who has a mother who is widowed and still loves the child’s absent father. Contrast that with a child who’s mother is a lesbian. Then…Imagine Whirled Peas:D
 
:ehh: Willie, what image is reinforced in the mind of a child who’s mother is heterosexual. . If you can, imagine the image of humanity that is reinforced in a child’s mind who has a mother who is widowed and still loves the child’s absent father. Contrast that with a child who’s mother is a lesbian. Then…Imagine Whirled Peas:D
A woman is not a man. and I doubt the kid has any idea what his mother’s sexual orientation conjures up in her mind. But, I suppose we can wonder about the mother who hated her dead husband, too. Is it sexual orientation, marital status, or character that really matters? And is it the welfare of the kid or the sensitivities of the spectators that matters?
 
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