Seeking help for my problem

[guanophore]

People won’t find Jesus if they are happy with the darkness they have inherited from their religion and society. If they like to be ignorant.

Oh I quite agree! But our hearts are restless until they rest in Him, so God has given each heart a desire to seek Him. But you are right, everyone has a choice to be ignorant or reject His grace.

So all can find Jesus if you want to say but it is more difficult and not fair that is up to God to decide.

I did not claim it is “all up to God”. He of course is the only one that can judge the human heart, but we who know the Truth are duty bound as one beggar telling another beggar where to find the bread. And every soul is duty bound to seek after Him to find Him.

Jesus said the harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few. Though all can enter it is more difficult without laborers.

Let us labor then for the food that does not perish!

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

Thankyou very much for your thoughts. Where I am it is very late so I will reply soon. I am willing to stay up late talking but we are going to keep arguing. I believe I have knowledge of the truth which is a talent I must not allow people to steal from me or to decrease its value.

 

[HolySpirit]

As others have stated, the CCC is a great place to start.

An Introduction to Christianity by Joseph Ratzinger is a nice 350+ page discussion of Catholic belief by Pope Benedict. As anyone who has read it will tell you, it is not a mere introduction. It is a foundation for serious study.

There will always be a seat saved for you at a Catholic Church. Try the seat for a few holy sacrifices of the mass. You will recognize that the entire mass is straight from the bible. Schedule an appointment with a priest. Talk to him, and more importantly listen. You may discover that you have found your new home in Christ.

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

Thankyou for your reply and book recommendation. I will aim to read that book.
I have been to a church before and I didn’t like how the priest was not saying to people of other religions who were invited that they need to believe in Christ and follow Him but considered them all accepted to worship as they think they should. I don’t feel comfortable in an environment where the gospel is not treated with reverence. If it is not fit to preach to them atleast don’t preach another gospel.

I will try to talk more soon as it is late here.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

You have spent way too much time reading and absorbing the outpourings of the smoke of satan, cleverly hidden In schismatic and anti catholic, anti Popes post Vatican 2 rhetoric,

Your understanding is way off base. And wrong.

Clearly very wrong.

We are Catholic. We are called to obedience to the Magisterium and Holy See.

We are the Body of the Church. Jesus Christ is the head of His Church. You are successfully wounding the body of Christ with your anti catholic , anti Vat 11 rhetoric.

Learn to read the Bible the way a Catholic is called to. Read the catechism of the Catholic Church rather then anti catholic rhetoric on anti catholic websites.

Are you Catholic? Are you a practising Catholic?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

You have inherited that terrible darkness you are slamming others for.

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

I think I was mistaken to believe catholics could have desire for the gospel and teaching the truth. I am also not going to follow another gospel. You call the truth the smoke of satan. You are not helping my search. You seem to have a lot of venom against people of other churches. I make take a break to consider how I shall proceed with my search or stop searching if I think it is right. It is deceitful of you to seek unity with orthodox when you so clearly despise us and our gospel. You want us to submit to lies of false teachers of the churches. I will not reply anymore to this thread.

 

[StarMapp]

You can find all you need in a q/a format on RadioReplies. The whole book in 5 volumes online is about people asking questions to priests. It’s interesting also when they present their questions in the context of their times. You can see that the answers are timeless and they still apply for the cases of today.

http://www.radioreplies.info/

 

[guanophore]

have been to a church before and I didn’t like how the priest was not saying to people of other religions who were invited that they need to believe in Christ and follow Him but considered them all accepted to worship as they think they should. I don’t feel comfortable in an environment where the gospel is not treated with reverence. If it is not fit to preach to them atleast don’t preach another gospel.

Mass/Divine Liturgy is where the faithful encounter Christ in the Sacrament. It is not a venue for evangelization. In the early days of the Church, the uninitiated were not even admitted to the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

I am not sure what you expect so that the “gospel is treated with reverence”, but Mass is for those who have already embraced the gospel.

I think I was mistaken to believe catholics could have desire for the gospel and teaching the truth.

Yes. It is possible that your personal standards are actually higher than God’s.

I am also not going to follow another gospel.

In that case, being here on CAF will not help you, as we do not support that.

You are not helping my search.

Curious. I wonder what would make you feel “helped”?

You seem to have a lot of venom against people of other churches.

Actually, I think it is you who have brought your anti-Catholic hostility here.

It is deceitful of you to seek unity with orthodox when you so clearly despise us and our gospel.

Have you shared your opinion with your Patriarch? I have read all of your posts, and I have seen no replies to you that indicate any one despises your beliefs. I think you may have a mental health problem.

You want us to submit to lies of false teachers of the churches.

I have to agree with what has been stated. You have been steeped in anti-Catholic venom, don’t understand what we believe, and are engaging in divisive behavior. Who is the “accuser of the brethren”?

 

[tweedlealice]

Salutations
If you reread my note, I said it looked like you were Orthodox, evaluating the Roman side. Have you found, within Orthodoxy, that the Greek May be a little different from the Russian or the Georgian??
Is the Bible you use more on line w the Gnostic gospels or the Roman Bible?When my DIL was here, I took her to the Greek Orthodox Church. It’s the only one. On the way back, I was catching the time for my mass. I said, just look at the architecture. She was crying b/c it was a sin to be in a Roman Catholic Church. We left.
When I was 10yo, a Protestant Uncle died. We went to his funeral. My RC church said it was a sin to go to a Prot.church. I knew in my Spirit that it was bogus. Vat II open doors for the Holy Spirit. We started to find unity in other Bible believing churches. Pope John Paul II invited Orthodoxy, Muslims, Jews and ?? to Rome.
We don’t have to be Catholics to get to heaven. John 3:16 is the same for us all. Faith is a free gift from God. We are called by the Holy Spirit to recognize that Jesus is Lord. As James said,”FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!”
Once saved, always saved. NOPE! BUT our loving Separated Brethern will say the sinners alter call wasn’t serious. He wasn’t saved. So he backslides. Requires another altar call.
RC goes along w John 3: 16. But, we can sin and throw away our salvation. But, we have confession. Back on God’s trail again. RC’s Bible have the deutercanniocal books. Now, if I said, Jesus read from these books in the Temple. That’s true. They were in scroll form.
In discussion w different ppl, they’ve used the term the Hebrew Bible.
In the 1500’s, I think Rome sent the Knight Templers to kill the ORTHODOX HERETICS. It wasn’t a good time. RC is so old, it had times of questionable behavior. I’m glad we stopped burning at the stake. Our SEPARATED BRETHREN would have Hot Feet?? GROAN!
Anyway, John 3:16 binds us together. Luther, as a Catholic monk, disagreed w the Pope/church on 99 theses. He placed the list on the door of Worms Cathedral. One was simony. Selling church graces. They believe in Consubstantiation and we believe in transubstantiation. That is semantics! Theirs is WITH and ours is ACROSS.
Henry the VIII couldn’t divorce his sterile wife=Anglicanism/Episcopalianism. No POPE. PRIESTS CAN MARRY OR BE GAY OR SAME SEX MARRIAGES. Methodists have different worship format. And the DONTS= No drinking ETOH, NO DANCING.Dress modestly.
Baptists have the DONTS. They Baptise after a. Decision is made by an unBaptized person.
Once saved, always saved idea. There are other differences. Google them.
As Rome called out for Unity after Vat.II, we have Lutherans close to coming together.
Your Orthodox will not give communion unless you are Orthodox. Priests I know will give communion to Orthodox. We believe the same! THIS IS JESUS. I hope RC can be forgiven for that slaughter in 1500’s.
Go w God! Via Con Dias
I’m Christs love
Tweedlealice
There is a thread of Unity in our Bibles and doctrines. Some have same worship format. Yours is harder w a 3 hr, stand up service. God bless the dedicated believer.
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

I was mistaken to believe you were launching an attack on me so I said I will not reply anymore but it seems you are just reacting to how you must according to your beliefs.

Invincible ignorance it seems stops people from coming to christ if it teaches you don’t have to seek diligently and it teaches those who do seek diligently will not find and that they can be saved but if they do become christian you teach they have greater chance of salvation. I don’t think I will accept it but I will say it could be true or it could not be that is invincible ignorance not that those are excused who do not seek and can find.
I assume they are only accepted because they can not find the truth and not because you say God does not require them to seek diligently. To give them greater chance I suppose then is only through evangelisation.

But I will not condemn those who believe vatican 2 but they are responsible for others not coming to christ if they teach all non christians are ignorant even if they could find if they seek. Thankfully I believe they do not say such people are invincibly ignorant. I will preach the truth and they have responsibility to hear truth and other teachers. I will never however accept those who could find the truth if they seek it but I won’t condemn those who believe some will not find if they seek it and believe in invincible ignorance.
I edited much of my post but as you see I was ready to accept others to believe that non christians could be saved though it is not true. But it seems you are more righteous than me for you don’t accept them unless they could not find the truth if they seek.

St Paul says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers you should not marry them but if you have not to leave them if they will allow you to believe and practice your faith. I think the unbeliever would only have a problem if you believed and confessed Jesus is the only way to heaven. Jesus said he who left father mother wives for my sake will inherit the kingdom. Jesus is the only way to heaven if He wasn’t you could deny Him and be fine.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I think I was mistaken to believe catholics could have desire for the gospel and teaching the truth. I am also not going to follow another gospel. You call the truth the smoke of satan. You are not helping my search. You seem to have a lot of venom against people of other churches. I make take a break to consider how I shall proceed with my search or stop searching if I think it is right. It is deceitful of you to seek unity with orthodox when you so clearly despise us and our gospel. You want us to submit to lies of false teachers of the churches. I will not reply anymore to this thread.

I have absolutely no issue with people from other churches. You want to be Protestant, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, knock yourself out.

Who is asking you to follow a different Gospel to the 4 in the Bible? No one.

The smoke of satan permeates such that people discredit Vat 11 and all the Popes since.

I am not here to help your search.

I am here to speak the truth, to defend my faith, that of the Catholic Church. You want to attack my Church, of which I belong to it’s body, with Jesus at its head, knock yourself out. But don’t cry poor when I tell you that your ideas of my church are absurd.

I have no intention of seeking unity with the Orthodox Church. Any moves in that direction are not for me to decide. Moves in that direction are for the Holy See and the Orthodox heads to decide.

I have no idea who you are, who you belong to, so how on earth can I despise you or your Gospel.

Jesus said those who listen to my voice know the truth.

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

Why would you join this thread if you are not seeking to help?
Anyone who claims to know non christians can be saved without believing in Christ is antichrist. It does not matter who says it even if I do . Unfortunately I must stand alone and can not say whether any are saved or not if you are not willing to tell all people they need christ. To please christ you have to be willing to be rejected by everyone who believes anything short of the truth. Paul said I do not please men or I would not be a servant of Christ. He says those who are outside God judges. Not that he believes they are saved but he can’t make any accusation against them or their worthiness because they may join the church if he does not judge and by judging he can lose his own salvation. Invincible ignorance may be true. It is God alone who knows and judges. I believe I must reject it. I do not judge people for I don’t know and you are also commanded not to judge me completely

 

[Spyridon]

don’t think there is a place on earth where people have no access to the gospel.

There are tens, maybe hundreds of MILLIONS of people on Earth who have never heard the Gospel.

Among those, there are MILLIONS who have never even heard the name of Jesus or heard about Christianity.

Think about that. Millions of people who have never even heard the sweet name of Jesus the Christ. Millions in India. Millions in China. Thousands in South America. Probably a million in Africa. Thousands in the Pacific. Huge swaths of unevangelized people still exist, millions of people still have no access to Bibles in their language.

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

I am not talking about those people. Even if they are saved according to their seeking to please God in order to know the truth nothing we say here is going to change that. Only to assure believers among us of the truth. We can say God is just and they may be saved. But we don’t know perhaps God reveals Himself to them. If not they can be saved

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

Wait all those people have christians among them

 

[Spyridon]

Even if they are saved according to their seeking to please God in

They aren’t and can’t be saved by that. Salvation is of Christ and no other.

If they are eventually saved by God’s Grace and Christ judges them as having been invincibly ignorant, and having lived a decent human life, then by and through Christ they may end up in heaven.

Extra Ecclesiam nula Salus:
There is no Salvation outside the Church.

What is the Church? It is the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is One with Christ the Head. The Church is Christ.

Omnem Salutem a Christo-Capite per Ecclesiam procedere quae Corpus est Eius:
All Salvation comes from Christ the Head, through the Church which is his Body.

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

Well I disagree because all may need Christ. I am not so sure of your church teachings and could not accept them boldly and worry it could be dangerous. Hopefully one day I accept it if I don’t deem it dangerous and I believe. I think I should keep seeking but I can’t just join the church because you make me worry and because of my own desires and weaknesses. I have to know from God it is true. Jesus said to Peter “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but My Father who is in heaven”. If it turns out to be true I hope I am invincibly ignorant on that day. But I can’t be if I have opportunity to learn and do not use it. Anyway I have to fulfill my responsibilities in life also.
But if I am not safe what makes non christians safe who don’t even seek but are willing to join just because they are accepted and like your teachings? Ofcourse they are accepted if they accept christ and believe the catholic church is true and may be above me in that. But what about those who do not seek?
I am afraid you will steal my faith in christ and I am not worried about that like the one who buries his talent. But I am worried if you take that faith from me I will deceive other christians that they don’t need Christ. So why do you say you accept orthodox who do not convert and say they may be invincibly ignorant. You don’t accept them fully only those who are invincibly ignorant.

 

[truthlovingorthodox]

I think I agree with my dad that condemning each other is against the spreading of the gospel and you each have enmity against each other. God is able to make other people join the church if it is true.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Why would you join this thread if you are not seeking to help?

Anyone who claims to know non christians can be saved without believing in Christ is antichrist. It does not matter who says it even if I do . Unfortunately I must stand alone and can not say whether any are saved or not if you are not willing to tell all people they need christ. To please christ you have to be willing to be rejected by everyone who believes anything short of the truth. Paul said I do not please men or I would not be a servant of Christ. He says those who are outside God judges. Not that he believes they are saved but he can’t make any accusation against them or their worthiness because they may join the church if he does not judge and by judging he can lose his own salvation. Invincible ignorance may be true. It is God alone who knows and judges. I believe I must reject it. I do not judge people for I don’t know and you are also commanded not to judge me completely

You are not entitled.

You are not God so you cannot preempt what God will do.

Why did you make a thread, seemingly innocent, that has taken a distinct anti catholic turn