Seeking perspective on relating to homosexual couple in the family

[john_ennis]

Our niece on my in-laws’ side has long been coming to family events with her partner. Over time, their relationship became known to some, then was announced, and a year or so ago became what they term a marriage.

The normalizing effect of time has caused virtually everyone in the family but us (my wife and me; our kids are too young to get this–but not for long) to accept this more than they originally would have. Roughly half of them even attended the “wedding.”

This all makes our own position seem harsh and angry to our beloved, Christian relatives (esp. wife’s parents). It even seems that way to us sometimes, for no one sees it our way. We’ve always held that we must in no way treat these women as a couple, and that this involves inviting them over as a couple. This will soon mean a permanent shock to the way we are involved in family events.

I’d like some perspective from my Catholic brothers and sisters.

Our view is basically,

1. 
   *]We are not being loving if we treat them as a couple, for that simple makes it easier for them to believe something that’s wrong and do something that’s wrong.
   *]Going to their home as a couple is actually a celebration of their household, and is therefore wrong.
   *]Inviting them to our house as a couple is wrong for similar reasons (though I admit that it seems less clearly so to us).
   *]Our duty to our kids is surely teach the truth about marriage by what we do and say. When they’re old enough to understand all this, what we’ve done will mean even more than what we’ve said.
   *]We are to be loving in our manner toward these people; none of this has anything to do with shunning.
   
   As I said, our solitude encourages second thoughts (esp. by my wife). Although my wife’s wonderful pastor has privately affirmed our view, I wonder if there are other considerations that would reassure us/her?
   
   Thank you.
   John

 

[mdgspencer]

I have met gay people where I work and I always have treated them with respect, though I dislike such a life style. I agree though that it would be best not to deal with them as if they are a couple. It was the same thing for me when it came to several of my sons, who lived with their girl friends. I would never deal with them as a couple, though I still treated my sons as my sons. If you love a family member, it is best not to give your approval to their sins, and perhaps this will even help them to see their life-style as something to abandon and to reform their lives. I would rather act according to the view that their co-habitation is wrong, when the alternative is your acting as if it were all-right and then later having them face God when they die and have their sins catch up with them after you gave your approval to them.

 

[john_ennis]

Thanks, that makes sense. It’s only consistent to treat cohabiting couples as you describe, too. I forgot to mention that it bugs me that, while we’re trying to act in a way that doesn’t encourage the sin, we haven’t been talking about it. Likely it wouldn’t help, but I wonder if we’re being unclear about our motivation, and therefore not very helpful.
Peace.
John

 

[Catholic1954]

I certainly would NOT treat them as a MARRIED couple, but I wouldn’t leave one out of your invitations for visiting your home (or theirs) on occasion. It’s a fine line, but you can receive them with graciousness and charity, and still not approve of their life style. The same thing happened to my neice, but she eventually left her “partner” and is now married, with the most charming 2 year son, and trying for #2.

 

[john_ennis]

I certainly would NOT treat them as a MARRIED couple, but I wouldn’t leave one out of your invitations for visiting your home (or theirs) on occasion. It’s a fine line, but you can receive them with graciousness and charity, and still not approve of their life style. The same thing happened to my neice, but she eventually left her “partner” and is now married, with the most charming 2 year son, and trying for #2.

Right. I don’t see inviting one of them (and I’m sure such an invitation would be rejected). Yet, an invitation to both, it seems to me, certainly IS recognizing their couplehood. And though it’s possible to see it differently, is there any doubt that as the real nature of this partnership dawns on my kids, the way we’ve received them as a couple (or not) will speak loudly about whether their relationship ought to be thought of as valid, right, good?
And still I wonder if I’m missing somthing here, for my wife and I aren’t as confident as I’d like.

 

[pentecostbaby]

My sister and her partner just bought a house; DH and I are in the process of adopting. So this is a pressing question for us, too.
When I first read this thread, I thought: of course, don’t invite them over, and don’t go to their house. But honestly, the more I think about it, the more awful this feels, and the more I think it does nothing other than alienate them. My sis, for one, thinks pretty badly of Catholicism (though she was raised with it). If I were to refuse invites, etc, I would be proving her point.
We plan to make our feelings on it known to our children. Until then, they are “roommates”. Once it becomes clear, we’ll tell how we feel: “We don’t think that it’s in keeping with God’s command to be chaste.” We plan to relate it to co-habitating and God’s plan for men and women.
We are called to love the sinner and hate the sin. As long as they aren’t making out in front of our kids, I don’t see that going to their house would be a problem. I’d assume they know how you feel, right? As long as they know, and you make sure your kids know, then you can be a great example of how to treat people with love and respect even though you don’t agree with their decisions.
I’m still struggling with this, though. Please don’t jump all over me.

 

[john_ennis]

But honestly, the more I think about it, the more awful this feels, and the more I think it does nothing other than alienate them. My sis, for one, thinks pretty badly of Catholicism (though she was raised with it). If I were to refuse invites, etc, I would be proving her point.

Believe me, I know how it feels; my wife feels it even more. I think we have to be careful to not let feelings override; with love, we might still make others angry. Christ wasn’t afraid to let people walk away in the name of truth.

“We don’t think that it’s in keeping with God’s command to be chaste.” We plan to relate it to co-habitating and God’s plan for men and women.

It’s important to tell them that. (I’m also going to add that marriage by its nature includes God’s gift of our occasional participation in His work of creation, and that marriages which are not ordered that way (incest, homosexuality, polygomy) are by nature disordered.) But I’ll have no answer for them, if they ask, “How were you being loving to them (the couple) by acting toward them as if they were married?”

I’d assume they know how you feel, right? As long as they know, and you make sure your kids know, then you can be a great example of how to treat people with love and respect.

That’s just the thing: when the discomfort and awkwardness, and my selfish feeling of not wanting to deal with it, overcome my conviction that it’s wrong and shouldn’t be affirmed, I show that in fact I don’t feel that strongly about it. You said a mouthful with the little phrase “how to treat people with love”…that’s what I’m obsessing about. Father Corapi says something like, “You’re not loving a person when you smile and pat them on the back as they dance their merry way to Hell.”

I’m still struggling with this, though. Please don’t jump all over me.

Gosh. I hope I didn’t. I sure appreciate your thoughts. It’s very important stuff. And we all know that disagreement does not mean we don’t respect each other here.

thanks again
John

 

[gatorsmom]

I imagine that you are still not talking about it much because every step in this couple’s direction needs to be considered. I’m sure it’s uncomfortable making decisions that will make you stand out from the other relatives. And you don’t want anyone to feel hurt, humiliated or insulted especially since this couple is quiet about their lifestyle. And you love your niece. No one wants to hurt the people we love. But again, you really have to stand your ground.

If I were you, when sending invitations, send them to your niece and mark “plus guest.” She can bring whomever she wants. When there is a get-together, try to make all plans for your niece and indicate she can bring a date/guest with her. If they invite you to their house, you could either just politely decline or outright (but in private so as not to humiliate anyone) tell them you are uncomfortable with their lifestyle and you want to be honest and upfront that you will not be coming to their house. In an effort to be loving, you could reassure DN that you care about her and you care about her partner who is a very nice person but you just don’t approve of their marriage or relationship. All people sin and we can care about the sinner while making it clear we do not like their sins. If I had a sin that I had a hard time giving up, I’d want to be treated this way.

You know, when you think about it, it actually makes it easier for YOU now that they have indicated they are married. Because now there is no way anyone could argue that they are just friends that are roommates. There is no guesswork involved. You couldn’t just say to your wife, “well, we could go to their house afterall, they may just be friends.” No, they have sought to be married, and this means unmistakably that there is a sexual relationship there.

 

[jwatza]

I have the same situation with my brother and his partner and now a niece and her partner, also. Be very wary about the relationship between your children and your niece–my niece idolized my brother and he encouraged her in living the gay lifestyle.

My parents are dead and there are 10 of us children–this brother’s lifestyle has created a huge division in our family. Some of us are practicing Catholics, some are not. When my brother came out of the closet, I made it very clear where I stood on this issue and what Church teaching is in these regards (he was fully aware of Church teaching being a former Franciscan brother for years). I, also, made it clear that I love him and care for his soul and that of his partner’s soul.

The boundaries that I have had to set in regards to my family’s relationship with him (I have 8 boys) are that we will attend family functions at other family member’s houses where both he and his partner are present as long as they do not display physical affection to each other in front of us/and our children. However, we would not attend functions at his house and we would only invite him to functions at our house. I explained to him that it would be scandalous for our children and us to welcome a homosexual relationship into our home. We do not want to normalize his relationship to my children.

We have been dealing with this now for over 8 years. One of my other brother’s has disowned me and 3 other siblings over this, although to my gay brother’s credit; he has not disowned me. My brother who has disowned us has basically withdrawn from most family activities. He will not acknowledge any invitations that I send out, won’t talk to me…When I tried to reconcile with him, he basically told me that I don’t exist to him.

This situation has caused much grief in my life. It is amazing how everyone expects tolerance for the homosexual lifestyle, yet there is no tolerance for me trying to raise my children in a Godly atmosphere and protecting them from scandal. I always have to remind people that tolerance must go both ways or there is no such thing as tolerance at all. I could share much more but i have to go. I am sorry that you are in this situation–i understand the confusion and pain that it brings about. God Bless you and your wife.

 

[quiet52]

Christ has told us to love Him more than family. He said He didn’t come for peace, He came with a sword (see Matthew 10:32-36). When a family member chooses a lifestyle contrary to what a Disciple must choose, then we must love them, and definitely pray for them, but not accept or enable their choice of lifestyle. Pretending all is okay for the sake of superficial peace is not what a true follower of Jesus does. If we say nothing about blatant sin for the sake of fake peace, then we are liars as confessors of the faith. We must genuinely and boldly proclaim our faith to our children, and be examples in following Jesus.

We’re to battle evil (yes, with prayerful charity) even when our loved ones are committing evil. Saint Paul tells us:

"

Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power. Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with teh world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens. Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground. So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace. In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." (Ephesians 6:10-17)

jwatza, thank you for your post. May your example in not denying the Truth of God nourish the faith of your entire family. Your steadfastness may bear fruits in ways you’ll never be aware of. Remember your membership in the greater Body of Christ – and that the holy ones are praying for you and rooting for you.

 

[john_ennis]

Thanks to all; these are some helpful considerations.

 

[LittleBits]

What do you mean “deal with them”? They aren’t rodents, or an annoying weather pattern, they are ppl. A loving couple. I am gay, and Catholic. Unfortunately, I am too ugly to have a partner, but if I did, my family would accept us with open arms. Just because I am gay doesn’t mean I don’t deserve love.
You should invite them to your homr likr you always have, and go to visit them at their home. You will be showing that you love and accept your family member(s).
Intolerance, and rejection from family and friends is one of the main reasons why the majority of suicides amongst teens are among gay teens.
Don’t compare their relationship with what you feel a relationship should be. Let God decide that. Be there for your loved ones.
Ppl are always talking about how sinful we (gay ppl) are, and how God hates it. Assuming that’s true, just iimagine what He thinks of those of us who turn away from our loved ones just because they don’t turn out to be what we want.

 

[onmyknees]

Little Bits,
When I posted you on another thread I did not say that SSA people are so sinful. I said that the act is sinful and that the Catholic Church teaches to love everyone but to hate the sin. All of us are sinners but we try to overcome our sin and grow in holiness. I think I told you about my son who is SSA and that I love him and his partner unconditionally but I have told them that I cannot approve of the practice. We are very close. I have known many SSA people who have embraced their Catholic faith and are living chaste lives now thanks to the Catholic support group called “Courage” and of course God’s help. Just like all Catholics who are not married must strive to live chaste lives.

 

[flyingfish]

I don’t think that inviting them over to your house, or going to their house implies that you approve of homosexual marriage.

If you know someone drinks too much, or is having premarital sex, or uses birth control, are you approving of their sin by inviting them over or going to their house?

There is more to your niece than just her homosexual relationship. You can love your niece and have a relationship with her without it implying that you’re for gay marriage.

The way you are behaving now is making it seem to the rest of the family that you’re shunning your niece, and you are isolating yourself from the family by this behavior. Ask yourself if it’s worth it.

I’m sure everyone already knows your stance on homosexuality, interacting with a sinful family member doesn’t imply you now approve of their sin.

 

[kage_ar]

How you treat this couple WILL impact your kids. It will show them how - if they DO sin someday - you will react to it.

If you daughter does get pregnant at 16, do you want her first instinct to be “my parents will KILL ME”, for her to be so afraid that she scrounges up $500 to get an abortion so you will not reject her?

If your son decides to move in with his girlfriend, do you want him to think you will never invite them over for a cook out?

How do you treat those in your family in invalid marriages or living together? What about the contracepting couples in your family?

Not attending the wedding is the loving thing to do, but, after the fake wedding - treat the couple with love and respect.

Don’t invite them over to sleep in your home, do invite them for pie.

Explain to your children that people do sin, people do choose to reject God, but that we are called to love everyone. We are called to be holiness out for a walk.

 

[Musician]

Very much struggle with this issue personally…I have many gay friends, being in the performing arts world, and it seems somehow so wrong to avoid their friendship because I disapprove of their lifestyle. We also have a beloved niece who is gay and lives with her partner. What do we do? Alienate them for life by refusing to be around them?
I don’t have to deal with the issue any more with my children, having had to explain the situation to them when they were younger and met some of my gay friends. I did explain to my children that while the lifestyle is wrong, God loves gay people too.
I don’t know…I keep remembering that Jesus ate with sinners…

 

[PassingThru]

This may sound harsh, but really, I am glad most of the people posting here are not members of my family.

How do you deal with them? How about dealing with them like any other members of your family? How about treating them so well, in fact, that some day down the road when you pull them aside and tell them you disagree with their lifestyle, and hope they can someday change, but you love them anyway, they will be floored to learn you disagree but still love them the same! And how much more that will mean to them?

With all the judgement being thrown around, and special invites, treat them differently, etc, do you think anyone in their right mind would care WHAT you think when you treat them so poorly?

Honestly, people must have really strong legs for them not to shatter when they fall off that horse.

This was a bit rude, I admit, take with salt…

Shocked,
M

 

[Lynxdk]

I like these responses:

How you treat this couple WILL impact your kids. It will show them how - if they DO sin someday - you will react to it.

If you daughter does get pregnant at 16, do you want her first instinct to be “my parents will KILL ME”, for her to be so afraid that she scrounges up $500 to get an abortion so you will not reject her?

If your son decides to move in with his girlfriend, do you want him to think you will never invite them over for a cook out?

How do you deal with them? How about dealing with them like any other members of your family? How about treating them so well, in fact, that some day down the road when you pull them aside and tell them you disagree with their lifestyle, and hope they can someday change, but you love them anyway, they will be floored to learn you disagree but still love them the same! And how much more that will mean to them?

With all the judgement being thrown around, and special invites, treat them differently, etc, do you think anyone in their right mind would care WHAT you think when you treat them so poorly?

I keep remembering that Jesus ate with sinners…

That ~doesn’t~ mean I think you should feel any shame ~at all~ for holding to your understanding that they’re living sinfully (did I say that right? You shouldn’t feel ashamed for your beliefs!).

In my experience, it’s sometimes best to let the people I care about make mistakes, even when I ~know~ it’s a mistake, without rejecting or alienating them, but loving them all the while… else how would they feel safe being with me if they decided it was a mistake later and worried I would hold it over their heads and do the “I told you so!” sort of thing?

Puts me in mind of the prodigal son. I learned that lesson best from my own mother…
several times =)

 

[Havard]

Be open and honest about why you are not okay with same-sex affection. I think inviting them over is fine as long as you make sure they know that you disapprove of anything more than platonic affection. If they start hugging and kissing in the kitchen, they are being disrespectful to your household.

As far as going over to their place, that warrants a longer discussion. Make sure they understand that 1) you are serious about not being an accomplice to sin and 2) you are doing this out of love.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Old thread from March, but as many people get together with all types of relatives over the up-coming Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays maybe the discussion is beneficial to some.

… they are ppl. A loving couple. I am gay, and Catholic. … You will be showing that you love and accept your family member(s).
…

Many people argue that we should stay out of their bedrooms. I wish they’d let us! Two women living together could be roommates for all anyone knows. (It used to be common for single people to live with same-sex roomates, and I remember my family including same-sex roomates in some family dinners without any scandal.) However, the lesbian couple mentioned in the original post *let everyone know their relationship was sexual. *

I had a similar difficulty when my BIL lived with his girlfriend. Not a homo-sexual issue, but a bad moral example for my children. If people love their families, I wish they would not put family members who are parents of minor children in difficult situations like this.