Seeking the True Church

[CourtingTex]

CT, does the LDS church accept the whole Bible, cover to cover, as the true Word of God without any contradictions contained in it?

I answered this earlier ----- if the Bible was translated correctly.

 

[JMM1957]

Let’s go back to Matthew 16:18. Read what it says and tell me what it means to you, if you would please.

CT, I only care about the answer to one question right now; what did Jesus mean in Matthew 16:18 when he said that “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church”, the Church he just established when he spoke to Peter previously in this verse?

 

[adrift]

I aware of number of things that critics used to end the growth of the church and eventually kill, which sadly happened in June 1844.

The things I am aware of, certainly did not end his standing in eyes of God as a prophet ---- further I submit whether you are referring of to supposed treason years later did not slow and stop the advancement of the work of God at the time, so nice try.

Some of the popes have been questionable in the character, considering who they are — my point whether a prophet or the pope ----- are they prefect people?? — Jesus who was the only prefect person to ever be

Is English your first language?

So you know he was convicted of using stones to find treasures? Or do you believe it is untrue? Even though the court records still exist.

 

[adrift]

CT, I only care about the answer to one question right now; what did Jesus mean in Matthew 16:18 when he said that “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church”, the Church he just established when he spoke to Peter previously in this verse?

 

[adf417]

Folks can do whatever they want if what you suggest is what they wish.

I doubt folks like you suggest are members in good standing and loyal. They are usually inactive members.

Now, they have no authority from God recognized by his authorized servants.

I was become a apostate if I, for example, wanted women to hold the priesthood and taught such to members contrary to the official doctrine and organization of the church.

Hi CurtingTex
I have no clue what you are talking about here. how did this answer the question posed by the other poster who asked more than once?

Peace!!!

 

[CourtingTex]

CT, I only care about the answer to one question right now; what did Jesus mean in Matthew 16:18 when he said that “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church”, the Church he just established when he spoke to Peter previously in this verse?

I cited two Old Testament scriptures that Catholics dismiss ---- yet the church fell into apostasy (the gates of hell prevailed)

Again, I have responded prior to this ---- if no apostasy was not to happen, I submit the ancient prophets would not have spoken about it.

Additionally, the Holy Ghost confirmed that apostasy happened ---- I am a former Catholic.

 

[JMM1957]

I cited two Old Testament scriptures that Catholics dismiss ---- yet the church fell into apostasy (the gates of hell prevailed)

Again, I have responded prior to this ---- if no apostasy was not to happen, I submit the ancient prophets would not have spoken about it.

Additionally, the Holy Ghost confirmed that apostasy happened ---- I am a former Catholic.

The ancient prophets cannot speak contradictions to what Jesus would say later in Matthew 16:18, God is not a God of confusion.

 

[CourtingTex]

The ancient prophets cannot speak contradictions to what Jesus would say later in Matthew 16:18, God is not a God of confusion.

Your understanding of the scriptures and mine relative to this scripture are different.

Yes God is not the author of confusion ---- that why I believe the Bible scriptures I read, study, and ponder about to be correct so far as the translation- — are you aware a number of different hands brought to be the Bible the Christian world reads and studies?

The Catholic church has a Catholic Bible (happened to see a copy of such at Barnes and Noble last week). My Bible is the King James version.

 

[JMM1957]

Your understanding of the scriptures and mine relative to this scripture are different.

Yes God is not the author of confusion ---- that why I believe the Bible scriptures I read, study, and ponder about to be correct so far as the translation- — are you aware a number of different hands brought to be the Bible the Christian world reads and studies?

The Catholic church has a Catholic Bible (happened to see a copy of such at Barnes and Noble last week). My Bible is the King James version.

CT, your Bible and mine read the same with Matthew 16:18, so no differences there. Now, tell me what “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church” means to you?

 

[JMM1957]

I cited two Old Testament scriptures that Catholics dismiss ---- yet the church fell into apostasy (the gates of hell prevailed)

Again, I have responded prior to this ---- if no apostasy was not to happen, I submit the ancient prophets would not have spoken about it.

Additionally, the Holy Ghost confirmed that apostasy happened ---- I am a former Catholic.

This is your post. You say here that apostasy means “the gates of hell prevailed”, see, I bolded it. Jesus says in Matthew 16:18 that “the gates of hell** would not prevail** against the Church”. So, now what?

 

[CourtingTex]

CT, your Bible and mine read the same with Matthew 16:18, so no differences there. Now, tell me what “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church” means to you?

I have answered this twice now

APOSTASY ----my study from the ancient prophets stating the apostasy to come — the church of Jesus Christ did not exist yet — Christ was not born yet.

I questioned and studied this a lot, when investigating with missionaries years ago ---- again as I have said I am a former Catholic so I was aware of this scripture as I understood it at the time.

Now, if you are trying to do the “gotta ya” — my church is false with this scripture and anything you could say/etc ----- you have failed with me since I did a lot of reading, study, and prayer leading me to be open to commit to baptism and walk away from Catholicism.

Bottom line, whether your views, the publications on catholic.com or someone else’s views /etc loyal, cradle Catholics purpose is to get me to come back to the Catholic church.

No plans of coming back to Catholicism.

 

[JMM1957]

I have answered this twice now

APOSTASY ----my study from the ancient prophets stating the apostasy to come — the church of Jesus Christ did not exist yet — Christ was not born yet.

I questioned and studied this a lot, when investigating with missionaries years ago ---- again as I have said I am a former Catholic so I was aware of this scripture as I understood it at the time.

Now, if you are trying to do the “gotta ya” — my church is false with this scripture and anything you could say/etc ----- you have failed with me since I did a lot of reading, study, and prayer leading me to be open to commit to baptism and walk away from Catholicism.

Bottom line, whether your views, the publications on catholic.com or someone else’s views /etc loyal, cradle Catholics purpose is to get me to come back to the Catholic church.

No plans of coming back to Catholicism.

My purpose here on this thread is to discuss “seeking the true church”, with you or anyone else. Not here to convert you or anyone to the Catholic Church, that’s God’s job to change minds and hearts.

Do you understand that there can be no contradictions in the Word of God, the Bible? If you say the ancient prophets foretold of a Great Apostasy in Jesus’ Church, it simply cannot happen because Jesus himself said in Matthew 16:18 that “the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church he established”. So, then, the LDS church, sorry to say, has misinterpreted what the ancient prophets foretold, because the words that the prophets spoke and the words Jesus spoke all came from the same source, God. And there can be no contradictions with God. Not really that hard to understand is it?

 

[CourtingTex]

My purpose here on this thread is to discuss “seeking the true church”, with you or anyone else. Not here to convert you or anyone to the Catholic Church, that’s God’s job to change minds and hearts.

Do you understand that there can be no contradictions in the Word of God, the Bible? If you say the ancient prophets foretold of a Great Apostasy in Jesus’ Church, it simply cannot happen because Jesus himself said in Matthew 16:18 that “the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church he established”. So, then, the LDS church, sorry to say, has misinterpreted what the ancient prophets foretold, because the words that the prophets spoke and the words Jesus spoke all came from the same source, God. And there can be no contradictions with God. Not really that hard to understand is it?

I beg to differ.

My church, being the restored church, has understanding about the true church.

I am done here with comments on this thread. The Holy Ghost has confirmed to me what church, if you will, is the true church.

Kind regards.

 

[adf417]

Now, if you are trying to do the “gotta ya” — my church is false with this scripture and anything you could say/etc ----- you have failed with me since I did a lot of reading, study, and prayer leading me to be open to commit to baptism and walk away from Catholicism.

I dont think that is the case at all, but sense everything you have stated to date in this thread is exactly what other religions/denominations state, including JW’s, as their reason for leaving the Catholic church or their reason for believing the Catholic church went into apostasy, and then seeing that everyone of these people are now in different religions/denonminations make one wonder who has it right. Im have been one to be open to all the arguments but when the conclusions are different then what? Could it be the premises of all the arguments were wrong to begin with and that the gates did not in fact prevail and Christs body IS still in tact? Hmmmmm!!!

Peace!!!

 

[adrift]

I cited two Old Testament scriptures that Catholics dismiss ---- yet the church fell into apostasy (the gates of hell prevailed)

Then Jesus didn’t know what He was talking about.

Again, I have responded prior to this ---- if no apostasy was not to happen, I submit the ancient prophets would not have spoken about it.

Additionally, the Holy Ghost confirmed that apostasy happened ---- I am a former Catholic.

The prophets can be interpreted in different ways. It is you who say that they spoke of it. Catholic don’t dismiss what they said but I don’t see it as talking about the Church of Christ. There are many other events that it fits better. I am sorry you are going to leave as you have not answered many objections. Peace on your travels and God Bless you.

 

[adf417]

I beg to differ.

My church, being the restored church, has understanding about the true church.

I am done here with comments on this thread. The Holy Ghost has confirmed to me what church, if you will, is the true church.

Kind regards.

Hi CT, what do you tell other people that use this statement but are not LDS?

Peace!!!

 

[CourtingTex]

I dont think that is the case at all, but sense everything you have stated to date in this thread is exactly what other religions/denominations state, including JW’s, as their reason for leaving the Catholic church or their reason for believing the Catholic church went into apostasy, and then seeing that everyone of these people are now in different religions/denonminations make one wonder who has it right. Im have been one to be open to all the arguments but when the conclusions are different then what? Could it be the premises of all the arguments were wrong to begin with and that the gates did not in fact prevail and Christs body IS still in tact? Hmmmmm!!!

Peace!!!

My view remains, if wolves did not come into the church created by Christ and the characteristics that refer to the true church, the restoration of the gospel would not have been necessary, yet how do you explain the creation of the Protestant churches? I doubt seriously that the founders did it to go through unnecessary acts ---- they had issues with Catholicism in terms of their understanding of the scriptures/etc as reasoning.

Again, my church is not a Protestant church.

 

[adf417]

My view remains, if wolves did not come into the church created by Christ and the characteristics that refer to the true church, the restoration of the gospel would not have been necessary, yet how do you explain the creation of the Protestant churches? I doubt seriously that the founders did it to go through unnecessary acts ---- they had issues with Catholicism in terms of their understanding of the scriptures/etc as reasoning.

Again, my church is not a Protestant church.

Thats a fair question. When you answer the question posed to you a couple times now from JMM on post #112 maybe we can dig into this question. Dont you think that would be fair sense the questions are similar from both sides?

Peace!!!

 

[JMM1957]

My view remains, if wolves did not come into the church created by Christ and the characteristics that refer to the true church, the restoration of the gospel would not have been necessary, yet how do you explain the creation of the Protestant churches? I doubt seriously that the founders did it to go through unnecessary acts ---- they had issues with Catholicism in terms of their understanding of the scriptures/etc as reasoning.

Again, my church is not a Protestant church.

Jesus, Paul, and other NT writers all spoke of a time when the Church would need to be on the lookout for, and defend itself against false prophets, false teachers, wolves in sheep clothing and the like, but the true Church would not apostatize, the gates of hell would not prevail, as Jesus promised in Matthew 16:18. If you study the history of the CC going back to the first century, you will see that the very things I spoke of above, did in fact occur, and the Church fought against them. And the Church has survived until this day, just as Jesus said it would. Trust in the words of Jesus.

 

[JMM1957]

My view remains, if wolves did not come into the church created by Christ and the characteristics that refer to the true church, the restoration of the gospel would not have been necessary,** yet how do you explain the creation of the Protestant churches?** I doubt seriously that the founders did it to go through unnecessary acts ---- they had issues with Catholicism in terms of their understanding of the scriptures/etc as reasoning.

Again, my church is not a Protestant church.

I answered this in posts 96 and 103.