Seminarian saying Gospel and Homily

[turtleoompa]

Tonite our priest allowed a seminarian to say the Gospel and do the entire Homily. I was told he has not been ordained yet. He is allowed because it is his year to follow the priest around. Next year he is to go back and complete another year to become a priest. Is this allowed?

 

[puzzleannie]

if he is a transitional deacon, which is usually what the men are who are in their year of parish service before ordination to priesthood, yes he is ordained for the office of preaching and proclaiming.

 

[Brendan]

As puzzledanne noted, if he has been ordained a deacon ( which happens about 12-6 months before ordination, then his reading of the Gospel is mandatory, and his preaching is allowed.

If he is just doing his parish internship, then the practice is wrong.

Redemptionis Sacramentum

1. The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.146

You can generally tell if the seminarian in question is a deacon or not by what he wears at Mass.

If he is dressed in a robe that is similar to the priest, or in the white alb with a stole that goes diagonally from one sholder to the waist- then he is a deacon.

If he is just wearing a while alb, or perhaps a black cassock and white surplice, then he is not ordained and should NOT be reading the Gospel or giving the Homily.

His Diaconal ministry is the correct time for him to practice those functions in a public way ( and yes, they get LOTS of practice doing both at the seminary).

 

[turtleoompa]

I was told by another Deacon that he has not been ordained yet. He wore a white alb. Nothing like the priest. Our priest blessed him prior to him taking over the Gospel and Homily.

 

[TomS]

At Mass this Sunday (actually Sat evening), a seminarian gave the homily, a short talk on vocations. In addition to the priest there was also a deacon present. He wore only an alb on the outside so you knew he was a seminaian. He was in his pastoral year (which I think is the year before becoming a deacon) I believe. I was suprised because the priest is usually very reverent.

I have been to masses where the priest will give an introduction (which I guess can pass for the “homily”) and then Mr. so and so or Sister such and such will give a talk about stewardship or something.

 

[Brain]

Yeah, semianrians who arent deacons should not read the gospel or give the homily. To my knowlege the “pastoral year” is between year 2 and 3 of the theology school. in year 4 one is ordained a deacon and has a weekend assignment near the seminary and holiday break assignment around home. At the end of year 4 they are ordained priests if the bishop wishes to, otherwise they keep on studying or deacon-ing until the bishop wants to ordain him.

 

[mgy100]

Go easy on the seminarians, be glad you have them and be glad you’ve actually seen one! Let’s not split hairs, it isn’t as if Mrs. Butterson gave the homily on sunday about the priest hood and women.

 

[turtleoompa]

Thankyou.

 

[Brendan]

Go easy on the seminarians, be glad you have them and be glad you’ve actually seen one! Let’s not split hairs, it isn’t as if Mrs. Butterson gave the homily on sunday about the priest hood and women.

It’s not the seminarian’s fault, it’s the priests.

The priest is wrong to teach disobedience and to go against the Vatican directives on the training of seminarians.

What the seminarian should be doing right now is getting experience being a Reader and EMHC. The seminarian should be both an instituted Reader and Acolyte at this point.

So he should be reading the Readings and assisting the priest in the distribution of Holy Communion. He may also set the Eucharistic table and purify the vessels.

The time to read the Gospel and preach will happen when he is a Deacon.

Based off of what you have told me, I’ll take a wild guess and guess that this seminarian in NOT the regular Reader at Mass, that this priest still has “Mrs. Butterson” doing the readings.

If so, that is precisely the liturgical ministry that the seminarian should have right now. If an Instituted Reader is present (such as the seminarian) another person should not excercise that ministry in their stead.

 

[AlexV]

What exactly is a “eucharistic table”?

Can’t we just call it an altar?

I mean, is that really so hard?

 

[Scottgun]

Go easy on the seminarians, be glad you have them and be glad you’ve actually seen one! Let’s not split hairs, it isn’t as if Mrs. Butterson gave the homily on sunday about the priest hood and women.

As I often say, if it is not that important, then it should not be hard to be in complete obedience. There is the who-cares way, and then there is the right way.

 

[Jamie_Burns]

Instituted Reader or Acolyte who is not yet a Deacon may give a “reflection” (which is practice in preparing and delivering a homily), but it is supposed to be AFTER Mass, not during the Liturgy of the Word.

 

[mgy100]

As I often say, if it is not that important, then it should not be hard to be in complete obedience. There is the who-cares way, and then there is the right way.

It’s not a who cares attitude. Seminarians at an advanced level of study are more than capable of giving a homily. It isn’t as if it goes against the Tradition, the sacred teachings, the deposit of Faith. It may go against some modern legalistic Roman Catholic code. It’s not something that puts anyone in immediate danger of hurting their soul, unless the homilist preaches heresy.

 

[Brian_C]

But it does. Only the ordained should be proclaiming the gospel and giving the homily. At least it was a seminarian. We’ve had the financial director be given the lecturn to update the status of Church renovation…with no homily by priest or deacon…

 

[Flint]

It’s not a who cares attitude. Seminarians at an advanced level of study are more than capable of giving a homily. It isn’t as if it goes against the Tradition, the sacred teachings, the deposit of Faith. It may go against some modern legalistic Roman Catholic code. It’s not something that puts anyone in immediate danger of hurting their soul, unless the homilist preaches heresy.

You’re trying to sell cafeteria Catholicism and thankfully, there are fewer and fewer customers. You are not the judge of the suitability of seminarians to preach homilies. The Church is, and She has said “no.”

It’s wrong to make excuses for actions that run contrary to the Holy See’s instructions while also denigrating those that are concerned about every facet of the Mass. It is far healthier to simply encourage everyone to follow the Church’s instructions and not their own egos.

 

[Cristiano]

It’s not a who cares attitude. Seminarians at an advanced level of study are more than capable of giving a homily. It isn’t as if it goes against the Tradition, the sacred teachings, the deposit of Faith. It may go against some modern legalistic Roman Catholic code. It’s not something that puts anyone in immediate danger of hurting their soul, unless the homilist preaches heresy.

Padre Pio was more than capable to take care of the business for the new hospital; however when he was told to obey and stop. He did so.

Don Bosco was more than capable to run new institutions for the poor and their children. However, when he was told to obey and stop. He did so.

After that the Church recognized their pure intentions, and they were allowed to resume their work.

Obedience first!

 

[Brendan]

It’s not a who cares attitude. Seminarians at an advanced level of study are more than capable of giving a homily. It isn’t as if it goes against the Tradition, the sacred teachings, the deposit of Faith. It may go against some modern legalistic Roman Catholic code. It’s not something that puts anyone in immediate danger of hurting their soul, unless the homilist preaches heresy.

Here is the infallible teaching of the Church on the subject

Vatican I - Pastor Aeternus

Chapter 3

1. Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world.

So if the priest is teaching that this seminarian is NOT to be bound by the discipline set down by the Holy See, then this priest is teaching against the Holy Spirit and Infallible Truth.

 

[mgy100]

You’re trying to sell cafeteria Catholicism and thankfully, there are fewer and fewer customers. You are not the judge of the suitability of seminarians to preach homilies. The Church is, and She has said “no.”

It’s wrong to make excuses for actions that run contrary to the Holy See’s instructions while also denigrating those that are concerned about every facet of the Mass. It is far healthier to simply encourage everyone to follow the Church’s instructions and not their own egos.

Excuse me, excuse me, I didn’t realize he read the Gospel. That is a no no. Who are you to judge me? There is more to Christianity than knowing the canon law.

 

[Brendan]

There is more to Christianity than knowing the canon law.

True,

But we can’t correctly PRACTICE Christianity without it.

Even Christ recognized that even the Pharisees had God given authority

Mt 23:1-3

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Now the Seat of Moses is occupied by the Pope, and he retains the same level of authority (with the added benefit that +Benedict practices what he preaches )

But we still must listen to him, in both matter of Faith AND in matters of discipline.

And if the Holy See says that seminarians cannot give a homily, then we are required to give our consent to that.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Who are you to judge me?

Aah! The Credo of modern society. Seminarians on their pastoral year are usually not yet ordained deacons, and as laymen, cannot read the Gospel or preach a homily. Period.