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Abba
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Seminaries: Are theological explanations for wandering souls being taught at seminaries? Or, are new priests left to respond: “It’s a mystery of the Church” when asked by the faithful Catholic laity?
Seminaries: Are theological explanations for wandering souls being taught at seminaries?
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Exiled_Child
Guest
I’m not familiar with the term wandering souls. Does that refer to ghosts? Or I suppose more likely maybe, souls in Purgatory?
I’m very curious, but I’m not sure of a source to consult. The phrase itself itself is very fascinating, though.
I’m very curious, but I’m not sure of a source to consult. The phrase itself itself is very fascinating, though.
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GEddie
Guest
I’d imagine that wandering soul is a reference to ghosts.
Purgatory doesn’t imply movement, in fact, only BODIES can move.
ICXC NIKA
Purgatory doesn’t imply movement, in fact, only BODIES can move.
ICXC NIKA
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Gorgias
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I’m with [user]Exiled Child[/user]: what does “wandering soul” mean?
In any case, each seminarian and/or priest will only be able to tell you what’s been taught at their own seminary, and only in their time at that seminary. So, it’s a difficult question to answer.
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Abba
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In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Come Holy Spirit and enlighten us and bless us with understanding in this discussion. Amen.
Hello Exiled Child,
The term ‘wandering souls’ is used for souls who are not resting in peace. The word ‘ghost’ can be used, but, ‘wandering souls’ is best as ‘ghosts’ can be used for many things - even like Casper or whatever imaginings people may have. In Spanish, the term used is ‘almas errantes’ which translates exactly into English to ‘wandering souls’. I would like to stay with the use of ‘wandering souls’ to be clear what we are discussing versus ‘ghost.’
As far as a source to consult, there is the rub. I don’t know of any theology compendium or any such thing that explains it. The best source is the stories of the saints or having someone inform you or experiencing situations personally. Otherwise, the book has not been written as of yet. but, wait for it, because someone will write a book and not even give me credit for giving them the idea and will just take a free license to take the information. I don’t have the time to write an ebook. I wonder if I did, If I could put it up for sale on CAF.
At any rate, the exorcist Padre Fortea, in Summa Daemoniaca, notes that the phenomemon perplexes him. In the decades he spent reading and studying the life of the ‘spirit’ (to keep it simple) he was not prepared to expect ‘wandering souls’ and so when he met them he did not know what to do nor what exactly was going on.
Basically, Exiled Child and all who are participating or are reading this thread; a wandering soul is a soul that is not resting in peace. What exactly is their condition? Well, they are in different situations; some are in the lowest parts of purgatory, others are in between earth and purgatory or hell and others are in hell and Satan uses them and sends them out.
I don’t think this topic is covered at all never mind well. At the seminaries, most especially since Sigmund Freud became popular, the things of the spirit have been in the main left in darkness and ignored with a certain disdain and fear that it could be due to some ‘psychological problems’ or a person may be accused of such; which is indeed a very sad development. I think it has had consequences and I would go as far as to say that I think it has contributed to the manifestation of atheism in our time.
The priests who do not have much spiritual grounding to begin with, and who are not even introduced to the topic, are left to say to the laity when questioned: It’s a mystery of the Church. If they say that much, they may just disregard as psychological problems or great imagination or a person ones attention etc… Not that this has happened to me, but I do know how things work.
There is no mystery, these souls need for us to pray for them. There is no need to be scared - they just need prayers to carry on. They appeared to Padre Pio and he would offer masses for them and pray and they were able to carry on. That’s all. But, we should not pretend they do not exist.
Peace.
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Abba
Guest
Hello GEddie,
I’m not so sure about that. You see, this is the reason someone should write a book explaining this stuff. I don’t mean one of those well put together for marketing fake books. I mean a serious book maybe put together by a priest who understands this stuff and who can explain it in good faith. I guess many find the topic intimidating, I don’t know. Certainly, the Church has not officially declared her understanding on this matter. But, one of those intellectual theologian priests should write about it as a service to us. Padre Fortea would be one of those possible priests but, he is perplexed regarding this matter.
I understand we are not supposed to know everything and God has made it so to facilitate our own sanctification, but, I don’t think that applies to things we confront and encounter. We should be able to recourse to the Church for an explanation.
I only know as much as I know and this from experience and from priests. I shared here at CAF once, an experience I had of a man who was allowing himself to be possessed. He called the ‘spirits’ with a stick to show me. Not that I was curious or anything. I don’t look for this stuff, and if it had not been the case that it would take a priest a day to get to the little village where I was, I would have just gone to the priest. But, the spirit in the possessed person wanted to rape a woman who went to my house for help. So, I went to see if the person was suffering from a personality disorder or what the story was. Well, it turned out that he really did called spirits who would come and possess him. He knew they were three and he was familiar with them. But, when I saw him be possessed, two were humans. So, how to explain this? This is what Padre Fortea experienced as well, and so how can it be. No, it cannot be written off as a deception of Satan. They were ancient human souls.
Now, Padre Teo of Columbia, explains there are souls that are under Satan’s command and others which need our prayers to carry on.
What sayest thou?
p.s. A spirit can be here or there even if it does not have a body.
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thistle
Guest
There are no wandering souls.
When we die our soul does not linger or wander but goes IMMEDIATELY to Hell (if dying in a state of mortal sin) or IMMEDIATELY to Purgatory or Heaven (if dying in a state of grace).
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Vico
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It is contrary to the Christian teaching of Redemption, but was used by the Gnostic, Manichaean, Albigensian, and Cathari.
See Catholic Encyclopedia: Metempsychosis:
newadvent.com/cathen/10234d.htm
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Abba
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Hello Vico,
Metempsychosis is the belief of reincarnation. When a person gets possessed - this is not reincarnation.
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Abba
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Capital letters doesn’t make it true.
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Vico
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Metempsychosis is called soul-wandering. I though you were referring to that. So you are really asking about demonic posession? Modern Catholic Dictionary has on that topic:
The inner control by the devil of the actions of the body in a human being. The victim’s liberty of soul always remains intact. Possession can be continual or intermittent, and the victim need not have culpably brought on the devil’s control. There is an official exorcism provided by the Church for possessed persons. Public exorcisms must be authorized by ecclesiastical authority.
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Abba
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Metempsychosis seems to mean reincarnation:
newadvent.com/cathen/10234d.htm
Well, in what I have presented above, I am referring to possession by demons and human souls, and souls who are not at peace. I don’t see any contradiction of this with Catholic theology but a lack of explanation.
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Vico
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Demons may possess. Human souls are incorporeal after death, until their resurrection.
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Abba
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How do you know this?
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Vico
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Possession mentioned in scripture is by the Devil and demons (fallen angels). Souls in hell are called impious men.
Pope Vigilius (537) 540-555, Canons against Origen211 Can. 9. If anyone says or holds that the punishment of the demons and of impious men is temporary, and that it will have an end at some time, that is to say, there will be a complete restoration of the demons or of impious men, let him be anathema.
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Abba
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Inapplicable.
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Vico
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Why?
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Abba
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" Can. 9. If anyone says or holds that the punishment of the demons and of impious men is temporary and that it will have an end at some time, "
This is not being said.
" that is to say, there will be a complete restoration of the demons or of impious men, let him be anathema."
This is not being said.
This is not being said.
" that is to say, there will be a complete restoration of the demons or of impious men, let him be anathema."
This is not being said.
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Abba
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I was just skimming Summa Daemoniaca, and in question 115 Padre Fortea states that human souls can possess a person. The priest has made the Summa available for free download online but it’s only available Spanish not in translation. I will confess I haven’t bought a copy of my own as of yet.
Here you can download his books for free, but only in the Spanish language: aciprensa.com/fortea/
It’s available in various languages on Amazon for $1.50 in pdf format. amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_12?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=padre+fortea&sprefix=padre+fortea%2Caps%2C391&crid=2XLWEJR86GLUP
Here you can download his books for free, but only in the Spanish language: aciprensa.com/fortea/
It’s available in various languages on Amazon for $1.50 in pdf format. amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_12?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=padre+fortea&sprefix=padre+fortea%2Caps%2C391&crid=2XLWEJR86GLUP
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thistle
Guest
In this case it does make it true!
Souls going IMMEDIATELY to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven upon death is AN INFALLIBLE TEACHING of the Church.
To disbelief or have an obstinate doubt about this teaching is heresy.
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