Millennial Superstition about Ghost? Did you just make that up or is that a thing? What exactly is your accusation? Can you please clarify? Are Augustine, Aquinas or Padre Pio 'Millenials"? Was Moses when he appeared to the Apostles a 'millenial"? Was Samuel who appeared to Saul, a ‘millenial’? Or, are you just posting to post?Millennial superstition about ghosts does not equate to Church teaching.
ICXC NIKA
Millennial, although currently used to mean “somebody born after 1980,” originally just means “thousands of years old.”Millennial Superstition about Ghost? Did you just make that up or is that a thing? What exactly is your accusation? Can you please clarify? Are Augustine and Aquinas a 'Millenials"? Was Moses when he appeared to the Apostles a 'millenial"? Was Samuel who appeared to Saul, a ‘millenial’?
Oh, yeah, and Satan is the father of lies.Demons are liars.
John 8
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
What is the basis of the statement that a cornered demon cannot lie?Oh, yeah, and Satan is the father of lies.
A demon can pretend to be an angel, soul, and even a saint. But, with his priestly powers, an exorcist can demand the demon to give him his name and the demon must finally do so. However, when it is a soul, the soul just continues to say that it is a soul.
Exactly, my post above. When a Catholic or Orthodox priest (valid sacrament of ordination) demands a demon to give him his name, the demon can resist all he wants but he will finally give in to the demand of the priest and tell him his name. Yet, a soul will continue to say it is a soul.What is the basis of the statement that a cornered demon cannot lie?
What is the authority for that assertion?Exactly, my post above. When a Catholic or Orthodox priest (valid sacrament of ordination) demands a demon to give him his name, the demon can resist all he wants but he will finally give in to the demand of the priest and tell him his name. Yet, a soul will continue to say it is a soul.
You being the wise person that you are, I am sure you can Google better than I and can do your own research. But, allow me to ask you, what is your position? Do you hold that anyone who understands some of the souls of the dead appear and may be present on earth are ignorant if not totally stupid nimcompoop or superstitious or have a psychological disorder or all three? How did you come about such impeccable wisdom?What is the authority for that assertion?
You propose that they may be thought of as:You being the wise person that you are, I am sure you can Google better than I and can do your own research. But, allow me to ask you, what is your position? Do you hold that anyone who understands some of the souls of the dead appear and may be present on earth are ignorant if not totally stupid nimcompoop or superstitious or have a psychological disorder or all three? How did you come about such impeccable wisdom?
All your posts on this thread have been inapplicable objections and misuse of quotes. In your scholarly bullet point list of what I said, ignorant and stupid are in the same line- that’s why I said three. I can count to three and even four.You propose that they may be thought of as:
I am asking for your source. You have answered that it is personal understanding.
- ignorant,
- stupid,
- superstitious, or
- psychologically disordered.
I have not drawn any conclusion but seek to know what the Church teaches.
To ask for an authority is not an inapplicable objection nor a misuse of quotes. You were not specific about the definition of “wandering souls” and there are more than one meanings for it. This lead to a few posts to determine what you were asking about.All your posts on this thread have been inapplicable objections and misuse of quotes. In your scholarly bullet point list of what I said, ignorant and stupid are in the same line- that’s why I said three. I can count to three and even four.
Is that what I said or are you more interested in looking good?To ask for an authority is not an inapplicable objection nor a misuse of quotes.
It is contrary to the Christian teaching of Redemption, but was used by the Gnostic, Manichaean, Albigensian, and Cathari.
See Catholic Encyclopedia: Metempsychosis:
newadvent.com/cathen/10234d.htm
Metempsychosis is called soul-wandering. I though you were referring to that. So you are really asking about demonic posession? Modern Catholic Dictionary has on that topic:
The inner control by the devil of the actions of the body in a human being. The victim’s liberty of soul always remains intact. Possession can be continual or intermittent, and the victim need not have culpably brought on the devil’s control. There is an official exorcism provided by the Church for possessed persons. Public exorcisms must be authorized by ecclesiastical authority.
Demons may possess. Human souls are incorporeal after death, until their resurrection.
Possession mentioned in scripture is by the Devil and demons (fallen angels). Souls in hell are called impious men.
Pope Vigilius (537) 540-555, Canons against Origen211 Can. 9. If anyone says or holds that the punishment of the demons and of impious men is temporary, and that it will have an end at some time, that is to say, there will be a complete restoration of the demons or of impious men, let him be anathema.
Why?
so why did you ignore my comment and only consider the quote?
“Possession mentioned in scripture is by the Devil and demons (fallen angels). Souls in hell are called impious men.”
The quote is to show the use of terms by the Church: demons and impious men.
Also consider St.Thomas Aquinas teaching against the idea of wandering fallen souls (in favor of restricted souls) in Summa Theologica, Supplement –
Question 70. The quality of the soul after leaving the body, and of the punishment inflicted on it by material fire
Article 3. Whether the separated soul can suffer from a bodily fire?
In another way as the mover is united to the things moved, or as a thing placed is united to place, even as incorporeal things are in a place. In this way created incorporeal spirits are confined to a place, being in one place in such a way as not to be in another. Now although of its nature a corporeal thing is able to confine an incorporeal spirit to a place, it is not able of its nature to detain an incorporeal spirit in the place to which it is confined, and so to tie it to that place that it be unable to seek another, since a spirit is not by nature in a place so as to be subject to place. But the corporeal fire is enabled as the instrument of the vengeance of Divine justice thus to detain a spirit; and thus it has a penal effect on it, by hindering it from fulfilling its own will, that is by hindering it from acting where it will and as it will.
Also consider St.Thomas Aquinas teaching against the idea of wandering fallen souls (in favor of restricted souls) in Summa Theologica, Supplement –
Question 70. The quality of the soul after leaving the body, and of the punishment inflicted on it by material fire
Article 3. Whether the separated soul can suffer from a bodily fire?
In another way as the mover is united to the things moved, or as a thing placed is united to place, even as incorporeal things are in a place. In this way created incorporeal spirits are confined to a place, being in one place in such a way as not to be in another. Now although of its nature a corporeal thing is able to confine an incorporeal spirit to a place, it is not able of its nature to detain an incorporeal spirit in the place to which it is confined, and so to tie it to that place that it be unable to seek another, since a spirit is not by nature in a place so as to be subject to place. But the corporeal fire is enabled as the instrument of the vengeance of Divine justice thus to detain a spirit; and thus it has a penal effect on it, by hindering it from fulfilling its own will, that is by hindering it from acting where it will and as it will.
Etc…Also consider St.Thomas Aquinas teaching against the idea of wandering fallen souls (in favor of restricted souls) in Summa Theologica, Supplement –
Question 70. The quality of the soul after leaving the body, and of the punishment inflicted on it by material fire
Article 3. Whether the separated soul can suffer from a bodily fire?
In another way as the mover is united to the things moved, or as a thing placed is united to place, even as incorporeal things are in a place. In this way created incorporeal spirits are confined to a place, being in one place in such a way as not to be in another. Now although of its nature a corporeal thing is able to confine an incorporeal spirit to a place, it is not able of its nature to detain an incorporeal spirit in the place to which it is confined, and so to tie it to that place that it be unable to seek another, since a spirit is not by nature in a place so as to be subject to place. But the corporeal fire is enabled as the instrument of the vengeance of Divine justice thus to detain a spirit; and thus it has a penal effect on it, by hindering it from fulfilling its own will, that is by hindering it from acting where it will and as it will.
Around the same time, Padre Pio told Fra Alberto of another apparition of a soul from Purgatory which also occurred around the same time. He said: One evening, when I was absorbed in prayer in the choir of the little church I was shaken and disturbed by the sound of footsteps, and candles and flower vases being moved on the main altar. Thinking that someone must be there, I called out, “Who is it?”
No one answered. Returning to prayer, I was again disturbed by the same noises. In fact, this time I had the impression that one of the candles, which was in front of the statue of Our Lady of Grace, had fallen. Wanting to see what was happening on the altar, I stood up, went close to the grate and saw, in the shadow of the light of the Tabernacle lamp, a young confrere doing some cleaning. I yelled out, “What are you doing in the dark?” The little friar answered, “I am cleaning.”
“You clean in the dark?” I asked. “Who are you?”
Here are some other accounts from Saints: mysticsofthechurch.com/2012/04/amazing-stories-from-purgatory-and.htmlThe little friar said, ‘I am a Capuchin novice, who spends his time of Purgatory here. I am in need of prayers.’ and then he disappeared,"
Let me repeat this. There are no lingering/wandering souls. This is NOT taught by the Church.My dear, do you wear a papal robe when you post? Do you know how to participate in a discussion without being aggressive? How do you feel now after posting your post declaring me ‘wrong’? Do you feel like you have won something? Do you feel holier than thou? What is your condition? Does this topic interests you or scares you? Does it challenge you in some way? What is your problem? Do you have an ax to grind with me? To be honest, none of the answers are of interest to me. The topic of this thread interests me. Does it interest you? Can you participate without accusing and posting as if you are Pope Francis posting incognito?
I am not ‘wrong’ and the teachings of the Church are not in contrary to the possibility that the souls from hell and purgatory leave and appear or possess living human beings. Neither is this possibility against biblical teachings. For your information, it is a topic being currently studied by the Church, as stated by the exorcist Carlos Alberto Mancuso who is well known by and has worked with both Pope Benedict and Pope Francis.
You want to say that Saint Thomas Aquinas and everyone else, including me - what an honor to be included with such a bunch - proposing such are wrong.
Can you please check your aggression at the door? Otherwise, please find something else to do.
Your horse is too high, you can’t hear me and you just scream down your commands.Let me repeat this. There are no lingering/wandering souls. This is NOT taught by the Church.
The CCC explicitly contradicts your claim.
If you have a Church teaching (not an opinion by a theologian) that you can show me to support your claim then please do.
It seems you are looking for someone to prove a negative. While there might be some teaching about “wandering souls” it is not something that most of us here have encountered. Since this is something you want to discuss, perhaps you can provide the source where you believe the Church has affirmed the idea of “wandering souls”. Only then can anyone discuss whether it’s a topic that is, or should be, part of seminary formation.Your horse is too high, you can’t hear me and you just scream down your commands.
Quote any teachings of the Catholic Church that contradict what I have presented. If you are considering the quote of the CCC which I provided, read it carefully as it does not apply.
Accepted.Abba,
I apologize if anything I said came across as offensive. That was never my intention. My condolences about your sister.
You would probably have done better to have gone to a priest at first than to ask around on this system.
God Bless and ICXC NIKA