Senate Dems stop "conscience exemption"

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bellasbane said:
Catholic hospitals and charities are exempt from the HHS mandate under the compromise provided by President Obama.
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Has something changed in the last few days? The last I heard Catholic hospitals and charities are not exempt from the HHS mandate.
 
bellasbane said:
Any idea whether the rate of charitable giving is less among New York Catholics in comparison to Catholics who live in states with lower taxes?
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Here is what we do know:
  1. Taxes are high and parents say they cannot afford Catholic school tuition.
  2. Catholics in general give to the Catholic church less than 1% of gross income.
    3.The more a Catholic earns the less % of income they give to the Church/School
  3. The highest % of income is in the group that earn around 25K per year.
  4. If a parish that has a school could get the % of gross income to around 5% schools could be tuition free. In an average size parish this amounts to increasing giving by the cost of two Big Macs.
 
bellasbane said:
Catholic hospitals and charities are exempt from the HHS mandate under the compromise provided by President Obama.
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Not so, nothing changed after he made that statement. It is the same now as it was before.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Code: 
They're not women who work in the health field and understand need for birth control pills and tubal ligations, for medical reasons.
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So somehow, you can comprehend that but the good bishops can’t? What is it that helps you to figure this simple issue out but the bishops just don’t get it? Oh, could it be that there is much more to the issue than the simple matter of contraception for legitimate reasons?
JimR-OCDS said:
In all, it makes no sense to continue the opposition to this part of the health care bill.
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That is what Obama and Sebelius (and apparently some catholics) want isn’t it. They would like the Church to cast aside its beliefs and follow Obama into the secular/leftist brave new world in which we are all forced to pay for contraception and chemical abortion. Quite a world you’re helping Obama to build.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
So since some contraceptives are occasionally prescribed for legitimate health reasons then religiouis institutions should be forced to provide them for all reasons? It seems to me that it would be forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9035415pretty easy to have insurance that recognizes the occasional need for medically necessary contraception while not providing contraception in all situations for all people. I also take issue with your implication that the bishops, being men, do not understand the simple issue of medically necessary contraception but liberal nuns, being women, are somehow the authority on the issue.

Ishii
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An elephant in the room is the pill is a Group 1 Carcinogen.

Some other Group 1 carcinogens:

Arsenic, benzene, cadmium, formaldehyde, neutron radiation,
 
ishii
So somehow, you can comprehend that but the good bishops can’t? What is it that helps you to figure this simple issue out but the bishops just don’t get it?
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I’m married to a woman, the Bishops aren’t. 😃
That is what Obama and Sebelius (and apparently some catholics) want isn’t it. They would like the Church to cast aside its beliefs and follow Obama into the secular/leftist brave new world in which we are all forced to pay for contraception and chemical abortion. Quite a world you’r helping Obama to build.
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I’m not so cynical to to try and say how others think.
 
Here’s the question: are Catholic women really ready to reject the Catholic Church en masse, in exchange for free birth control?

Will they give up their Catholic birthright, reject their Catholicism, and forego their religious freedom in exchange for this mess of pottage from the HHS?

Are they willing to accept real government control over their lives for a promise of birth control without copays?

If anyone thinks that’s a good trade, it’s worth another think. It’s inviting the serpent into your home.
 
bellasbane said:
Catholic hospitals and charities are exempt from the HHS mandate under the compromise provided by President Obama.
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JimG said:
Has something changed in the last few days? The last I heard Catholic hospitals and charities are not exempt from the HHS mandate.
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Don’t you know, JimG? Catholic hospitals and charities now don’t have to pay for contraception/abortificient coverage to their employees. Instead the provider gives it to the employees for “free” and charges more for other services. In the mind of the Obama apologist catholics, that is considered a compromise.

Ishii
 
JimR-OCDS said:
ishii

I’m married to a woman, the Bishops aren’t. 😃
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Ha, true enough. But I’m sure the bishops have/had mothers. Probably a good many have sisters and friends/colleagues at churches who are women. You paint an unrealistic picture of the bishops being totally out of touch with women. They are just as qualified as Kathleen Sebelius, Obama and sister Keenan to judge these matters. Furthermore, they are much more qualified to judge the moral ramifications of these matters. It seems the Obama admin hasn’t considered the moral ramifications or the constitutional ramifications of the issue. Morality doesn’t seem to be a concern for him, but only his agenda.
JimR-OCDS said:
I’m not so cynical to to try and say how others think.
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I judge them by their actions, not their words - and its not cynicism, but a calm, rational analysis of what Sebelius and Obama have been doing since gaining power.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Don’t you know, JimG? Catholic hospitals and charities now don’t have to pay for contraception/abortificient coverage to their employees. Instead the provider gives it to the employees for “free” and charges more for other services. In the mind of the Obama apologist catholics, that is considered a compromise.

Ishii
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Oh, if you mean that “compromise,” it’s not compromise at all. Still unacceptable. Still violates freedom of religion.
 
JimG said:
Oh, if you mean that “compromise,” it’s not compromise at all. Still unacceptable. Still violates freedom of religion.
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It is an example of how Obama views the catholic church - i.e. with contempt - that he would suggest this as a compromise. It is anything but. Anyone who peddles this as some kind of real, honest compromise is mistaken.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
It is an example of how Obama views the catholic church - i.e. with contempt - that he would suggest this as a compromise. It is anything but. Anyone who peddles this as some kind of real, honest compromise is mistaken.

Ishii
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Yes, and not only that, but the original mandate has now been finalized into law! It wasn’t even delayed. And the alleged compromise hasn’t even been published in the Federal Register.

The White House and its allies have declared war on the Catholic Church.
 
JimG said:
The White House and its allies have declared war on the Catholic Church.
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Exactly. And now we, as Catholics, liberal or conservative, have a choice: to oppose evil, or support evil. As I have been saying, Obama has done us a favor in a sense, in that he has made clear what his intentions are. Those catholics who insist on supporting him in spite of his war on the Catholic church are supporting evil, whether they realize it or not. This has nothing to do with what the tax rate is, or what govt. programs are funded. It is about the freedom of religion. This should unite liberals and conservatives, orthodox and liberal. And it should wake up the lukewarm. We will need the support of everyone to defeat Obama this November.

Ishii
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well, my parents were cared for by the Veterans admimistration, social security, medicare and medicaid.

All did a pretty good job, considering my father became ill at 43 years of age and could not work. He died at 87.

So, by my experience, these government programs worked well. Heck of a lot better than if they had nothing.

Jim
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Correct. From my familial experiences as well Social Security and Medicare have been God-sends to people.
 
ishii said:
So Cmatt, you acknowlege in your post that the penalty for not complying will threaten the ability of catholic charities to effectively help the poor. What do you think of an administration that would force charities into that position? Is such an administration and party worthy of your continued support?

Ishii
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No Ishii what I acknowledge is the penalty doesn’t threaten the poor if Catholic Charities complies and continues to serve the poor. I think the highest officials of the Administration are showing they are people of faith and good will, and yes, comparably speaking to the alternative, I believe they are worthy of my support.
 
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