Senate Health Care Bill Includes Deep Cuts to Medicaid

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nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/politics/senate-health-care-bill.htm

The Senate measure, like the House bill, would phase out the extra money that the federal government has provided to states as an incentive to expand eligibility for Medicaid. And like the House bill, it would put the entire Medicaid program on a budget, ending the open-ended entitlement that now exists.

It would also repeal most of the tax increases imposed by the Affordable Care Act to help pay for expanded coverage, in effect handing a broad tax cut to the affluent in a measure that would also slice billions of dollars from Medicaid, a program that serves one in five Americans, not only the poor but also almost two-thirds of people in nursing homes. A capital-gains tax cut for the most affluent Americans would be retroactive to the beginning of the year.
:mad: This bill is MEAN & EVIL
 
Luke6_37 said:
nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/politics/senate-health-care-bill.htm

The Senate measure, like the House bill, would phase out the extra money that the federal government has provided to states as an incentive to expand eligibility for Medicaid. And like the House bill, it would put the entire Medicaid program on a budget, ending the open-ended entitlement that now exists.

It would also repeal most of the tax increases imposed by the Affordable Care Act to help pay for expanded coverage, in effect handing a broad tax cut to the affluent in a measure that would also slice billions of dollars from Medicaid, a program that serves one in five Americans, not only the poor but also almost two-thirds of people in nursing homes. A capital-gains tax cut for the most affluent Americans would be retroactive to the beginning of the year.
:mad: This bill is MEAN & EVIL
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About the only good I see in this bill is that those who do not qualify for a subsidy now but also do not qualify for Medicaid, will be eligible for a subsidy in a few yrs. But that could be done regardless. Those who will lose their Medicaid could also receive a subsidy but many won’t be able to afford healthcare even with the subsidy. Parents and grandparents in nursing homes depend and rely Medicaid. And children.

This is truly unbelievable that the United States of America, the richest nation on God’s green earth, and supposedly a nation that some of its Christian believers are fond of saying was founded on Christian principles, is on the verge if the Republicans get their way, of taking from the poor and giving to the rich to such a degree, especially when there is already such disparity between those less fortunate and those at the top in its land. I couldn’t agree more with your summation and it is sickening and thoroughly disgusting to me.

This is not a healthcare bill. It’s a tax cut bill for the rich. Plain and simple. Shame.
 
Thankfully I see some religious leaders speaking out.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/religious-leaders-senate-health-care-bill_us_594c006be4b0a3a837be537e

I believe all should however and not be afraid of offending the politics of some who show up at their faith community’s houses of worship. If people of faith are going to support the taking from the poor to this degree to give to the rich, I truly see no point in it at all. And I’m done with this thread now as I expect the Donald J Trump and Republican faithful to arrive shortly with their excuses on why we must take from the poor to give to the rich.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Thankfully I see some religious leaders speaking out.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/religious-leaders-senate-health-care-bill_us_594c006be4b0a3a837be537e

I believe all should however and not be afraid of offending the politics of some who show up at their faith community’s houses of worship. If people of faith are going to support the taking from the poor to this degree to give to the rich, I truly see no point in it at all. And I’m done with this thread now as I expect the Donald J Trump and Republican faithful to arrive shortly with their excuses on why we must take from the poor to give to the rich.
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Ah, so you’ve read posts from Republicans/Trump voters that say “I support taking from the poor to give to the rich.” I haven’t.

I think the bill is horrific and as you see religious leaders are already speaking out. Keep your eye out for a statement from the Vatican on this situation. I hope they put out a statement and I highly doubt it will be in favor of such a bill.

Mary.
 
Luke6_37 said:
nytimes.com/2017/06/22/us/politics/senate-health-care-bill.htm

The Senate measure, like the House bill, would phase out the extra money that the federal government has provided to states as an incentive to expand eligibility for Medicaid. And like the House bill, it would put the entire Medicaid program on a budget, ending the open-ended entitlement that now exists.

It would also repeal most of the tax increases imposed by the Affordable Care Act to help pay for expanded coverage, in effect handing a broad tax cut to the affluent in a measure that would also slice billions of dollars from Medicaid, a program that serves one in five Americans, not only the poor but also almost two-thirds of people in nursing homes. A capital-gains tax cut for the most affluent Americans would be retroactive to the beginning of the year.
:mad: This bill is MEAN & EVIL
Click to expand...
I guess that’s one way to look at it. Another way is that the Medicaid expansion has failed to improved access to health care or health outcomes. Continuing with it is merely throwing good money after bad. Another way to look at the capital gains tax is that the high rates discourage people from taking gains to avoid paying the tax, so rather than take the gains, pay the tax, even at a lower rate, and put the money back in the economy, they leave it tied up until they have losses to offset the gains.
 
ucfengr said:
I guess that’s one way to look at it. Another way is that the Medicaid expansion has failed to improved access to health care or health outcomes. Continuing with it is merely throwing good money after bad. Another way to look at the capital gains tax is that the high rates discourage people from taking gains to avoid paying the tax, so rather than take the gains, pay the tax, even at a lower rate, and put the money back in the economy, they leave it tied up until they have losses to offset the gains.
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Another way to look at is to ask whether it reflects what it means to be “pro-life,” including at all stages of life, or whether it really is a death-panel bill that quite literally is the very pushing-granny-off-the-cliff death-panel bill that Republicans accused Obama of promoting. And, this one’s as ‘death-panel’ as it gets.

Another way to look at it is that Catholics mothers who choose life will now have that childbirth be deemed a ‘pre-existing condition.’ As in: anyone who chooses life will be penalized and those who kill their babies will get around the ‘pre-existing’ loophole. That’s not “pro-life.” That’s indirectly encouraging abortion.

And another way still is whether it’s more corporate welfare for Big Pharma and even more price-gouging (even after insurance) at the pharmacy.

It is a mean, shameful bill. :mad:
 
Sy_Noe said:
This is truly unbelievable that the United States of America, the richest nation on God’s green earth, and supposedly a nation that some of its Christian believers are fond of saying was founded on Christian principles, is on the verge if the Republicans get their way, of taking from the poor and giving to the rich to such a degree, especially when there is already such disparity between those less fortunate and those at the top in its land. I couldn’t agree more with your summation and it is sickening and thoroughly disgusting to me.

This is not a healthcare bill. It’s a tax cut bill for the rich. Plain and simple. Shame.
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^^ this 👍👍👍
 
Luke6_37 said:
:mad: This bill is MEAN & EVIL
Click to expand...
Sure, this is “MEAN & EVIL” and so are Republicans so are pushing this bill. Not only that but Republicans are using “Blood Money” to steal from the poor to give to their rich friends and “People will die” as a result (Elizabeth Warren said these things when speaking about the bill, look it up). It it any wonder that an unhinged man thought he would be doing good by hunting Republicans at a baseball field?
 
state a specific line that does any of what you say…not a screaming politician rant…please?
 
I wonder how many who have written so adamantly against the bill have actually read the bill. And since this bill is so abhorrent to you, how would you fix the situation?
 
Luke6_37 said:
Where in the Gospels does Jesus say, “I am God, so worship me”?
When you find that let me know.
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Asked a simple question, I’m sorry I introduced reality into your world view. I’ll unsub.

As to your question, try the first commandment…they came before the gospels.
 
Sy_Noe said:
This is truly unbelievable that the United States of America, the richest nation on God’s green earth, and supposedly a nation that some of its Christian believers are fond of saying was founded on Christian principles, is on the verge if the Republicans get their way, of taking from the poor and giving to the rich to such a degree, especially when there is already such disparity between those less fortunate and those at the top in its land. I couldn’t agree more with your summation and it is sickening and thoroughly disgusting to me.

This is not a healthcare bill. It’s a tax cut bill for the rich. Plain and simple. Shame.
Click to expand...
They have successfully ‘conditioned’ majority of people into welcoming tyranny with open arms and applause.

I think if our founding fathers saw the state of the nation they created today, they would be disappointed the people had not revolted and put a stop to this. Our constitution requires that the people stand up to this kind of govt and install new guards.
 
Xystus said:
Sure, this is “MEAN & EVIL” and so are Republicans so are pushing this bill. Not only that but Republicans are using “Blood Money” to steal from the poor to give to their rich friends and “People will die” as a result (Elizabeth Warren said these things when speaking about the bill, look it up). It it any wonder that an unhinged man thought he would be doing good by hunting Republicans at a baseball field?
Click to expand...
Any attempt to fix the health insurance situation was bound to draw the “people will die in the streets” accusations from the left. It would not make any difference what the Repubs tried to pass, the outcry would have been the same.

Never mind that Obamacare still leaves 30 million with no coverage at all, at its very best. Where was the outcry for them?

Obamacare was doomed to failure. Everybody knew that. Even when it was passed, everybody knew it. It was to be the prelude to total government healthcare, which the Dems in the House wanted but not enough in the Senate did. So they cobbled Obamacare together so they could claim to have saved the day until next time.

It has a lot of parts. At the core, its main parts are:
  1. Pushing 17 million onto Medicaid that were not on it before. Some had employment-based insurance and some didn’t. Nobody knows who they really were or what would have been best for them. It was just “you fit this category, so off to Medicaid you go”. Providers limit the number of Medicaid patients they’ll take, so the TRULY poor who had no other resource find fewer provider slots for them.
  2. Creating an actuarially inappropriate “pool” with the exchanges. People who did not have employment-based insurance (increased because employers utilized the “30 hour rule” to push people off their programs) and the virtually uninsurable were pushed into what was, in reality, a distorted high risk pool, in which those who could have bought their own insurance could no longer do so. It was an “income redistribution” scheme in which an unfortunate part of the middle class pays for another part of the middle class, because some received generous subsidies and some did not. Insurers couldn’t figure out what the losses would be, which is why so many pulled out.
  3. Imposing mandates a lot of people didn’t need or want; the most egregious being the requirement that employers pay 100% of the premium for contraceptives and abortifacients (including Catholic nuns). People had no choices at all in their coverages. You bought them all or none. So, 55 year old women pay for prenatal care for themselves, among other things.
  4. Destroying the “child only” policy market. It was probably the least expensive coverage of all before Obamacare. One more “help” for the poor.
  5. Creating taxes that applied to a) those who couldn’t afford to pay the ever-increasing premiums, and b) people whose adjusted gross income exceeds $250,000. It didn’t apply to 401Ks or IRA’s. AGI is a lot less than Gross Income, so that tax applied to very few, and was totally inadequate to pay for the subsidies. People like to call this a “tax on the rich”, whereas it’s far more a “tax on the middle-middle class”.
Obamacare is “Rube Goldberg” all the way. The idealization of it, and the refusal to see its defects (and non-coverage of 30 million) is a purely political thing. One can argue that it should be replaced this way or that way, but it’s beyond argument that it needs to be replaced. Democrats want total government healthcare. Repubs want a free market. Nothing is going to be perfect because despite all the romanticism, healthcare itself is and will remain a scarce resource. That’s particularly true in the U.S. where we have had open immigration of unskilled people for decades and serious and unaddressed concentrations of social problems.
 
mary_bobo said:
I wonder how many who have written so adamantly against the bill have actually read the bill. And since this bill is so abhorrent to you, how would you fix the situation?
Click to expand...
No one reads the bills our government passes. The men who vote on them don’t and neither do the people who voice strong opinions. In defense of all involved the bills are hopelessly complex. Hopelessly complex bills are necessarily bad law and should be opposed. But that is our modern government.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Any attempt to fix the health insurance situation was bound to draw the “people will die in the streets” accusations from the left. It would not make any difference what the Repubs tried to pass, the outcry would have been the same.

Never mind that Obamacare still leaves 30 million with no coverage at all, at its very best. Where was the outcry for them?

Obamacare was doomed to failure. Everybody knew that. Even when it was passed, everybody knew it. It was to be the prelude to total government healthcare, which the Dems in the House wanted but not enough in the Senate did. So they cobbled Obamacare together so they could claim to have saved the day until next time.

It has a lot of parts. At the core, its main parts are:
  1. Pushing 17 million onto Medicaid that were not on it before. Some had employment-based insurance and some didn’t. Nobody knows who they really were or what would have been best for them. It was just “you fit this category, so off to Medicaid you go”. Providers limit the number of Medicaid patients they’ll take, so the TRULY poor who had no other resource find fewer provider slots for them.
  2. Creating an actuarially inappropriate “pool” with the exchanges. People who did not have employment-based insurance (increased because employers utilized the “30 hour rule” to push people off their programs) and the virtually uninsurable were pushed into what was, in reality, a distorted high risk pool, in which those who could have bought their own insurance could no longer do so. It was an “income redistribution” scheme in which an unfortunate part of the middle class pays for another part of the middle class, because some received generous subsidies and some did not. Insurers couldn’t figure out what the losses would be, which is why so many pulled out.
  3. Imposing mandates a lot of people didn’t need or want; the most egregious being the requirement that employers pay 100% of the premium for contraceptives and abortifacients (including Catholic nuns). People had no choices at all in their coverages. You bought them all or none. So, 55 year old women pay for prenatal care for themselves, among other things.
  4. Destroying the “child only” policy market. It was probably the least expensive coverage of all before Obamacare. One more “help” for the poor.
  5. Creating taxes that applied to a) those who couldn’t afford to pay the ever-increasing premiums, and b) people whose adjusted gross income exceeds $250,000. It didn’t apply to 401Ks or IRA’s. AGI is a lot less than Gross Income, so that tax applied to very few, and was totally inadequate to pay for the subsidies. People like to call this a “tax on the rich”, whereas it’s far more a “tax on the middle-middle class”.
Obamacare is “Rube Goldberg” all the way. The idealization of it, and the refusal to see its defects (and non-coverage of 30 million) is a purely political thing. One can argue that it should be replaced this way or that way, but it’s beyond argument that it needs to be replaced. Democrats want total government healthcare. Repubs want a free market. Nothing is going to be perfect because despite all the romanticism, healthcare itself is and will remain a scarce resource. That’s particularly true in the U.S. where we have had open immigration of unskilled people for decades and serious and unaddressed concentrations of social problems.
Click to expand...
Excellent and reasoned response. Thank you!
 
Ascension CEO Tony Tersigni Outlines Guiding Principles for Healthcare Reform

1.Strengthen and stabilize the individual insurance market to best serve all Americans.
2.Preserve the safety net for those who need it most.
3.Support the continued transformation of healthcare delivery.

Finally, it is essential that we support the continued transformation of healthcare delivery. Any potential action to fix what is not working today must consider its impact on the resources needed to invest in the journey toward value. Given the unsustainability of our current level of healthcare spending, we should prioritize and preserve resources that enable us to move to value-based payment models as quickly as possible. Payment models that reward care coordination, prevent unnecessary hospitalizations, focus on population health and improve quality are the key to achieving lower costs in the long run.

modernhealthcare.com/article/20170622/NEWS/170629970?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
 
41 [c]Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 [d]Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

And then the democrats spake saying, “but Lord, we gave the hungry food, we clothed them and gave them shelter and we helped with their medical care. We were very generous because we took money from one group of people, that didn’t pay their fare share, and we used it to help others. It was not necessary to use our money as the rich already had more than they needed.”

Then for 40 days and 40 nights, Jesus spoke before the Roman senate. He demanded the government take care of all the poor of the nation by taking more from the wealthy. Then Jesus spoke to the people saying, "‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you took from one to give to another, in your name, for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Maybe my understanding of Christianity is wrong. I’ve always understood that Jesus wanted me to give. To take from what the Lord had provided for me and my family to give to and to help others. He wanted me to love others and to help them. To take from my pocket and give to others in his name and sharing his love.

Others of you seem to think that government caring for the poor is doing your Christian duty and to those that don’t see this as a biblical mandate, they can’t be Christian anyway. Then the universal cry from these “do gooders” is that someone else should pay for it, because the rich don’t pay their fair share. Spending someone else’s money might not be the Christian charity you think that it is.

The Churches have long been willing to partner with governments when it suited their purposes and then complain when it didn’t. I think these churches do the body of Christ no favors when they attempt to convince the members of the body, that English folklore (Robin Hood) is biblical.

In this funding of Healthcare that you think isn’t being done correctly, what is your stake in it? How much more in taxes are you willing to pay? Perhaps all of you big hearted Democrats are in the top brackets and are already paying the extra taxes mandated by Obamacare. If so, you can take any of your money that would have previously been paid in taxes and contribute it to the poor. If you are not in those top brackets, maybe you want to rethink what you contribute to the poor and the needy (hint: taxes are not these) and increase your contributions.

Obamacare is having more than a few problems. From the beginning it was obvious that further down the road there would be problems that would need to be addressed. I was reading this morning that one of the insurers has probably lost more than $1 billion over the last two years and was limiting their participation going forward. These are real problems that have to be addressed. The current system is failing and will only get worse. Any “solution” that happens now will not last. Adjustments will be made in the future and that is very common with government.

The link has not worked for me for this article but I imagine it is as misleading as most of the rest of the leftist articles that mischaracterise the details of the bill. Oh, and by the way, the “rich” pay most of the income taxes, by a large margin, and letting them keep a relatively small portion of it isn’t “giving” them anything. Well, unless you think all that people earn belongs to the government and their money is what the government “gives” them.
 
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