Senator Tom Cotton: Send In the Troops

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Nepperhan said:
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KMC:
OK…not a bad start. But how would you stop someone from tossing a brick through a store window, stealing the stuff and beating the store owner, if people didn’t want to meet / pray?
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Obviously all brick throwers cannot be stopped. Store owners don’t need to be present. I’m of two minds: A store owner could fend people off with a firearm but there is a definite question of raising the conflict to a gun battle. Owners don’t need to die over inventory.
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“Inventory” to some is another persons “livelihood” and “how they feed their family.” Also, its not just about brick throwers, but also actual violence as some 15 people have died so far, not counting all of the beatings.

If you (really the mayor or governor) don’t have concrete actions to stop that, there WILL be gun battles.

I understand your perspective, but I’m sure you realize many people, especially those living in those areas or who have stores in those areas disagree with you. They WILL take action.
 
KMC said:
“Inventory” to some is another persons “livelihood” and “how they feed their family.” Also, its not just about brick throwers, but also actual violence as some 15 people have died so far, not counting all of the beatings.

If you (really the mayor or governor) don’t have concrete actions to stop that, there WILL be gun battles.

I understand your perspective, but I’m sure you realize many people, especially those living in those areas or who have stores in those areas disagree with you. They WILL take action.
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I think you’re wrong. 15 dead in the protests? There were far more dead in the riots in '67 and '68. And it really took a generation to heal, with many of the scars still evident. I know exactly what it means about losing livelihood but these are not home invasions. Laws do not favor shooting someone coming out of your store. If you hunker down in a store with a firearm to try to keep someone from coming in, that is your right. However, I do think that will mean a person will take incoming gunfire.
 
In Minneapolis just as in LA 30 years ago, Korean shop owners did get on the roof armed to stave off looting.

Pictures too have come out of African Americans in Minneapolis, defending their businesses heavily armed.

Unfortunately, in this world, this may be the best way to stave off looting and arson.
 
Nepperhan said:
Laws do not favor shooting someone coming out of your store.
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Do laws matter if the mayor or governor won’t use the police (or national guard) to enforce them? There are laws against breaking into businesses, stealing things and beating the owner, but of the various videos I saw, there were no police to stop them.

So the laws you speak of are irrelevant.

I honestly don’t know anybody who thought what the cop did to George Floyd was OK. Nobody. But I do see many people soft pedaling the riots. In fact, I know many people who showed MORE outrage over the lady in Dallas who opened up her beauty salon during COVID19, than outrage over businesses like hers in other cities being destroyed and looted.
 
Feanor2 said:
White supremacy runs rampant in these vigilante state “militias”.
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I was more referring to the idea than present reality. Our Founders warned about a standing army though none did much to stop it.
 
KMC said:
So the laws you speak of are irrelevant.
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Not really, I should have stated: “laws and morals.” Killing a person running away does not protect your life or goods – it does not put anything back on the shelf. A man in Gary got 8 years for shooting a youth driving away with his car. Think on that.
KMC said:
But I do see many people soft pedaling the riots.
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Who is soft-pedaling? I have seen looting condemned by blacks and whites. I have seen cleanup crews of blacks and whites in the ghetto.

I have seen people trying not to exacerbate racial tensions. If that is soft-pedaling, so be it. What’s the downside – would you trade rhetorical consistency for years of mistrust and prejudice?
 
Nepperhan said:
Not really, I should have stated: “laws and morals.” Killing a person running away does not protect your life or goods – it does not put anything back on the shelf. A man in Gary got 8 years for shooting a youth driving away with his car. Think on that.
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don’t get me wrong…I’m not advocating vigilantism. But there have been a number of beatdowns, in addition to the killings I have mentioned, and the lack of police to stop those beatdowns does not go unnoticed.
Nepperhan said:
Who is soft-pedaling? I have seen looting condemned by blacks and whites. I have seen cleanup crews of blacks and whites in the ghetto.

I have seen people trying not to exacerbate racial tensions. If that is soft-pedaling, so be it. What’s the downside – would you trade rhetorical consistency for years of mistrust and prejudice?
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How is a crime “condemned” mean anything. The killings of black citizens at the hands of bad police officers were “condemned.” Did that accomplish anything? We can’t say we’re for justice and not do anything…just ask the peaceful protesters.

So “condemn” the riots and looting all you want, but unless action is taken, not merely “rhetorical” action but real action, expect more bad things to happen.
 
Is this opinion based on any actual knowledge of militia members, or is it formed by the press? I’ve known and worked with several state militia members in different states and none of them were white supremacists. This is just another stereotype used to discredit people.
 
That is true as well. I know the Michigan Militia had a Jewish subgroup.
 
As in any war, innocent civilians must be sacrificed. After all, as Trump says regarding the coronavirus and the reopening of the economy, we are “warriors.”

What would I do if I were the mayor? I would have the police mobilized to guard the businesses, and if someone tries to break through, restrain and arrest them, and then, only if necessary, apply deadly force. I have zero tolerance for criminals and opportunists who are selfishly taking advantage of the situation and defeating the cause of justice for everyone. I agree with Trump on this point.

With regard to de Blasio and NYC, first of all, New York is not being destroyed. Second, no one respects de Blasio, including police, leftists, and conservatives, so no one is going to pay any attention to what he says.
 
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Using the military except for trained military police units is a bad idea.
 
KMC said:
How is a crime “condemned” mean anything. The killings of black citizens at the hands of bad police officers were “condemned.” Did that accomplish anything? We can’t say we’re for justice and not do anything…just ask the peaceful protesters.

So “condemn” the riots and looting all you want, but unless action is taken, not merely “rhetorical” action but real action, expect more bad things to happen.
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If condemning is all the action a person can take, then that is appreciated. What if all the senate, not just Democrats, condemned the killing of George Floyd by being silent for 8 1/2 minutes? What if ol’ Jesse condemned the looting? Both would be a plus.
 
I get your point, but…
  • condemning does not save lives
  • condemning does not put structural safeguards in place to make sure black Americans are treated equitably
  • condemning does not save businesses from being looted and destroyed
  • condemning does not save someone from a beatdown
  • condemning does not save good cops from getting shot at / killed
action does
 
sloancaprice said:
You mean, the federal government sent troops in when state governments used the national guard to deny citizens their rights as ordered by federal courts. Yes, that seems fair.
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This is really the beauty of subsidiarity and Catholic social teaching. I myself am very hesitant when it comes to federal power, if not outright condemnatory. However, I do recognise when there is a need for a society of a higher order to ensure the common good.

I am not saying send in the troops to deal with the riots. I just wanted to mention subsidiarity.
 
We must not “send in the troops” as a nation. We cannot self-invade. However, there are places where the national guard might well be deployed. Business owners most definitely have the right to defend those who are breaking in (not leaving) because of the threat of harm. There will be looters killed this way eventually. The only check on this type of self-defense, much less vigilantism, is law enforcement. Just like there is an understanding of the anger from racial injustice, there must be an understanding of people who are attacked by mobs wanting to shoot those breaking in.

People have the right to legitimate self-defense. Likewise, protesters must understand that if they serve as a shield to those who attack police, then police still have the right to defend themselves. There simply is no win to violent protest. It will end in bloodshed sooner or later. The only solution is to stop it and disperse it before it escalates to the first bullet or the first brick.
 
We could try what moms and dads have been doing for years when their children get out of control and start screaming and throwing things and hitting people–just say:

“We have funny ears and those ears can t hear you when you are shouting and throwing things and hitting each other.”

That’s the way I feel about this whole week–so much screaming and shouting and throwing things and hitting people (with fists, clubs, and bullets)–I honestly don’t hear anyone. I just hear out-of-control rage, and I choose to turn away from it and not listen to people who are acting like toddlers.

That’s what I would do. Not respond to any “demands” until they are voiced with self-control and an even tone. That’s how we handle children.
 
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