Senior figure in We are Church movement is excommunicated

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A senior figure in the We are Church movement has been excommunicated, the Austrian media have reported.
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Martha Holzer and her husband, Gert, were excommunicated for “simulating the Mass”, according to the website Kath.net.
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Mrs Holzer is a leading personality in We are Church, which was founded in 1995 in Austria, German and South Tyrol and seeks liberal reforms within the Catholic Church.
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catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/05/22/senior-figure-in-we-are-church-movement-is-excommunicated
 
This is sad for the people involved, but is still the right thing to do, and was probably long overdue.

Hopefully this will cause these people will reconsider their path.
 
Their response:

wir-sind-kirche.at/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1994&Itemid=14

Translated into English:
On Wednesday afternoon the Bishop of Innsbruck in the Diocesan Court of Innsbruck, and in the presence of two Diocesan judge read out “Process concluding Decree” us, that says that we are excommunicated by the Eucharistic celebrations in the House Church.
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Thus we are not excluded from the Church, through baptism we belong to you, as long as we do not voluntarily leave. Therefore, we must continue to pay also the church tax, but are excluded from the sacraments and ecclesiastical offices.
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We expected this punishment. “We have a law, and according to the law” we need to be held accountable. Bishop Scheuer says that even the personal conscience does not allow, transgressing ecclesiastical laws. Nevertheless, we are shocked because of the following:
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“Attempting to celebrate the Eucharist without permission”, we fall under the “three serious offenses” that must be immediately reported to the Vatican. These include the violation of Beichtgeheimnisses and sexual abuse. It shocked us enormously that we find ourselves again in the same category as priestly abusers. Particularly, it exasperated us, we know of no single perpetrator of abuse, which would have been excommunicated. It is so measured with varying degrees.
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We have taken the Decree does not receive, but back assigned. We have never accepted the procedure in its structure (“extra-judicial proceedings”) and, consequently, also the guilty verdict is unacceptable.
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We will continue a us with great force for reform in the Catholic Church. Even this procedure indicates how urgently she need renewal.
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Martha and Gert heater
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Absam, 22 may 2014
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I don’t quite understand this. There is no valid Mass anywhere. Therefore no Eucharist and desecration per se.

If it’s all about communion, then all the Poles who exchange oplatki at Christmas fall into the same category.
 
It was about time that they be told how seriously at odds they are with Holy Mother Church’s teaching. Of course we should hope they change their minds, but I doubt they will, especially in view of their response.

This group is also known to advocate the ordination of women, the abolition of celibacy, “equality” between clergy and laypeople, democratic election of Bishops, contraception and quite a few other things.
 
ProVobis said:
I don’t quite understand this. There is no valid Mass anywhere. Therefore no Eucharist and desecration per se.

If it’s all about communion, then all the Poles who exchange oplatki at Christmas fall into the same category.
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Webster defines “simulate” as “to give or assume the appearance or effect of often with the intent to deceive.”

When sharing oplatki, there is no intent to assume the appearance or effect of the Holy Mass.
 
CutlerB said:
This group is also known to advocate the ordination of women, the abolition of celibacy, “equality” between clergy and laypeople, democratic election of Bishops, contraception and quite a few other things.
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In fairness, the abolition of priestly celibacy is a legitimate topic for discussion and one could be changed. It usually gets lumped in with those other issues, but it’s only a discipline. It hardly matters with regard to their other serious errors, however.
 
Rolltide said:
In fairness, the abolition of priestly celibacy is a legitimate topic for discussion and one could be changed. It usually gets lumped in with those other issues, but it’s only a discipline. It hardly matters with regard to their other serious errors, however.
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Yes, I know. The way they advocate it, however, is rather inappropriate.
 
Hurray for the Bishop of Innsbruck! It’s about time a Church Official did something to stop dissidents who think they know better than Church authorities as to what is proper and good for all of us. It is their kind of thinking that got Martin Luther in trouble…and they ain’t no Martin Luther!
 
Good. It is a just sentence.

I found this about who they are as an organization. It seems they’re off on many issues regarding what we really are as a Church and have left behind in spirit much that is ours as Catholics. Their expectations towards what our Church is and should be are unrealistic and it is they that need changing not the Church. I can hope that the medicinal value of the excommunication will have its desired effect and others seeing how serious their breach is will be deterred from following their ways and choices.

Below is some of what they, in their own words describe as their “We are Church” movement:

We are a coalition of Catholic organizations in the United States that are affiliated with the International Movement We Are Church (IMWAC). Together, we are committed to the renewal of the Roman Catholic Church on the basis of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) and the theological spirit developed from it.

IMWAC is represented in more than twenty countries on all continents and is networking world-wide with similar-minded reform groups.

We work for a church:
◾ which values participation
◾ with all ministries open to women and men,
◾ with optional celibacy,
◾ which values sexuality and primacy of conscience,
◾ which is committed to social justice and human rights,
◾ which does not marginalize its own people.

wearechurchusa.wordpress.com/

What they don’t say is they are lost and have seriously broken their covenantal relationship with Jesus Christ and His Church. They aren’t in Communion with Rome and that is their choice. All they did at the CDF is agree with them and make it formal for several of their members.

Glenda
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
Webster defines “simulate” as “to give or assume the appearance or effect of often with the intent to deceive.”

When sharing oplatki, there is no intent to assume the appearance or effect of the Holy Mass.
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Thanks. Good explanation.
 
ProVobis said:
I don’t quite understand this. There is no valid Mass anywhere. Therefore no Eucharist and desecration per se.

If it’s all about communion, then all the Poles who exchange oplatki at Christmas fall into the same category.
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The Polish people are not trying to simulate communion by their use of oplatki. They are merely exchanging good wishes.
 
Their response:
Thus we are not excluded from the Church, through baptism we belong to you, as long as we do not voluntarily leave.
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Hopefully, the bishop bringing to attention that they automatically excommunicated themselves will stir their consciences, but the above response by them indicates they are defiant. They perhaps do not realize that they did indeed voluntarily leave the Church in their departure from what the Church teaches.
 
Well I say good riddance. I think it’s time to teach these dissenters a lesson; thinking the Church should be easily swayed by the temptations of the secular world. It is unfortunate that there are people like these around Europe, especially in predominantly Catholic places such as Austria, Ireland and southern Germany. What they’re doing is not for the future of the Church but for their own selfish satisfaction. 😦

Let’s just ask the Holy Spirit to change their minds and give them more wisdom.
 
This is just another example of how powerfully deceptive outright hubris can be.

I’m curious about the name of this movement although they mention affiliation with Call to Action (which should tell us all we need to know.) They remind me of the “people of God” church that emerged in the '60’s in Latin America which stated something along the lines of God’s people are the Church and the hierarchical structure of bishops is unimportant - the people rule, sin is not primarily personal but more social due to the oppression and injustices done to the poor.
 
Tigg said:
This is just another example of how powerfully deceptive outright hubris can be.

I’m curious about the name of this movement although they mention affiliation with Call to Action (which should tell us all we need to know.) They remind me of the “people of God” church that emerged in the '60’s in Latin America which stated something along the lines of God’s people are the Church and the hierarchical structure of bishops is unimportant - the people rule, sin is not primarily personal but more social due to the oppression and injustices done to the poor.
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That is sort of what they stand for, too.

I find it rather funny that due to the excommunication the “We are Church” people are now “We thought we were Church”. 😉
 
One thing though: if these people would want radical change the Church, even though the Church would never allow such a thing, why do they still identify themselves as Catholics? Why not they become Protestants instead?
 
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