Sensitive Question about marital act -adults only

[Robertanthony]

So the things I am describing, the overall pattern of behavior my husband exhibited, these are not normal? Unfortunately, one of the reasons why I so readily forgave my husband is because I thought these were normal male behaviors.
After all, my dad told me at about 15 that my husband would expect me to use birth control and that he would want “a lady on the street, and a whore in the bedroom”. And yes, I was raised in a Christian home.
So my husband’s behavior seemed normal, and my Inlaws (also Christian) watched porn and my father-in-law went to strip clubs and massage parlors.

If these behaviors are not the norm for husbands to treat their wives, perhaps I have more reason to confront him than I thought.

Please tell me, do men normally treat their new brides this way? Quickly becoming bored with giving affection, expecting daily sex on demand, ignoring injuries resulting from too frequent or rough sex, skipping foreplay, insisting on watching porn and going to strip clubs, using his body as a weapon to punish, persisting in masturbation despite my requests for him to stop?

If these are not normal, if they are not the ways that normal, healthy men treat their wives, then I need to know that.

Scums treat their wife like ship, decent men don’t. Blunt but true. If this is all true and you’re indeed for real (sincere), given his track record, confronting him won’t do much for you, and it might backfire through his “weapon” of choice (silent treatment, contempt, sulking etc.)

 

[Debora123]

Please tell me, do men normally treat their new brides this way? Quickly becoming bored with giving affection, expecting daily sex on demand, ignoring injuries resulting from too frequent or rough sex, skipping foreplay, insisting on watching porn and going to strip clubs, using his body as a weapon to punish, persisting in masturbation despite my requests for him to stop?

If my husband ever treated me that way, he’d be kicked out of the house for a week.

 

[ricofall]

Ok, I read all of the post so far and I have much to add. I hope this is helpful in some way. I have been racking my head :banghead: to try to say what I want to say in a way that is most helpful. Since I am typing in a hurry, please excuse any and all typos.

First:
I am going to play devil’s advocate. I do not think it is proper to attack the wife’s husband if he is not here to speak for himself. It will do no good on his part. Hurtingwife can, of course state whatever she wants since it is her husband and experience to share. I do think it is unjust to accuse anyone of possible illegal crimes without understanding all sides or at least hearing them first. I will not jump on that bandwagon

Second:
Hurtingwife, it is sad that sexual sin is hurting your marriage. As men, we are told that porn is good, strip clubs are fun, and one night stands helps add to our manhood. We also have no idea what really goes on inside a mind of a female. People have told you that you need to explain how you feel to your husband, but as you already figured it out, he does not seem to understand/care/ or other. Communication is one of the hardest parts of a marriage to do successfully. We tell people to talk to each other, but we never tell them how to. Your husband may not be able to comprehend what you are going through. Maybe I can give you some insight.

 As a guy, he most likely is able to separate his emotion from his actions.  It can be a gift and a curse.  He does not have the same flashbacks and you seem bothered by that.  Women tend to tie their memories to their emotions.  Guys do not typically.   I remember when my grandmother died and I was sad and crying for myself and my father (his mother).  However, I can close my eyes and live in the moment and not shed another tear. I remember being sad, but the true sadness that I felt is gone.  In fact, I have a book that I started of great family events.  When I have a great, happy day with my family, I write it down.  I do that because I know I will forget about the day and how I felt if I did not write it down.  

 So how do you talk to him.  Without knowing him that is hard to offer you advice.  I can tell you what worked for me.  I wanted to become a better husband.  I thought like most guys do."What can I do to fix myself, or her, or whatever".  Then I realized that fixing was not the issue, understanding was the real problem. I first had to tell her that we had a communication problem, then explain to her what words really mean to me.  She told me what words really mean to her.

Example
I say “I am in the mood”= “I want sex”
She says “I am not in the mood”=“I had a long day with 2 children who I just put to bed again. I love you but just not tonight.”

I say “I am working late for extra pay”= “I love you because you are my world and I want to support you to be at home”
She says “I want you home with family” = " I would rather not buy things instead of you missing dinner with us"

We are still figuring it out today. One thing I will add. Forgiveness is a one way street. Just like love is. I love my wife, I will forgive her if she had done something against me (as I would hope she would forgive me). I know that asking for forgiveness is alway better, sometimes you have to forgive for your own sake. I know I fell for the sin of pride many times.

I hope in some small way this help. You are in my prayers.

 

[Kelfa28]

If my husband ever treated me that way, he’d be kicked out of the house for a week.

If not longer.

I wouldn’t stand for it. If I found out my husband was frequenting strip clubs, watching porn and masturbating and forcing me to have sex with him without any foreplay or forcing me to trade some cuddling for sex.
He’d be gone. I’d seek a separation without question.

Husband are called to LOVE their wives.

This isn’t love. Injuring a spouse through forceable, rough sex is not love. Continuing to demand this kind of sex is not love. He objectifies women. That is not love.

As harsh as this may sound…you are married to your rapist.

I will pray for you…you BOTH need counseling.

 

[thewanderer]

So the things I am describing, the overall pattern of behavior my husband exhibited, these are not normal? Unfortunately, one of the reasons why I so readily forgave my husband is because I thought these were normal male behaviors.
After all, my dad told me at about 15 that my husband would expect me to use birth control and that he would want “a lady on the street, and a whore in the bedroom”. And yes, I was raised in a Christian home.
So my husband’s behavior seemed normal, and my Inlaws (also Christian) watched porn and my father-in-law went to strip clubs and massage parlors.

If these behaviors are not the norm for husbands to treat their wives, perhaps I have more reason to confront him than I thought.

Please tell me, do men normally treat their new brides this way? Quickly becoming bored with giving affection, expecting daily sex on demand, ignoring injuries resulting from too frequent or rough sex, skipping foreplay, insisting on watching porn and going to strip clubs, using his body as a weapon to punish, persisting in masturbation despite my requests for him to stop?

If these are not normal, if they are not the ways that normal, healthy men treat their wives, then I need to know that.

There is absolutely no way that any of that is the way husbands treat their wives in normal healthy marriages. The bolded are especially horrific. OP, there is no way you should either put up with or enable this kind of behaviour. Try to communicate with him and get him to see how unbelievably wrong his actions are, do your best to try to get him to see that, but if he won’t listen or start trying to make real changes then you will eventually need to start thinking about a separation. And trust me, I do not at all say that lightly. Separation is a last resort, but if your husband refuses to even try to pay attention to and fix all the harm he has caused it will be necessary.

And Ricofall, believe me, I am all about keeping in mind that there are two sides to every story, but unless the OP is straight out lying there is no way to possibly interpret her husbands actions as in nay way shape or form acceptable. He has abused her sexually. There is no other possible way to interpret the facts presented to us. insisting on having sex even when your wife is physically damaged to the point that her doctor has to tell you to stop is wrong and straight up sexual abuse. Inflicting pain during sex as a punishment is also pure sexual abuse. Neither of these should ever be tolerated by anyone. Period.

ETA: Oh, yeah, I forgot to add, giving your wife PTSD because of the way you treat her sexually. Again, I’m all for recognizing that there are two sides to every story, but unless the OP is straight up lying she is being sexually abused by her husband.

 

[hurtingwife]

Thank you everyone.

I did it.
I told him all that I have shared here today about what his sexual abuse has done to me. He knew some of my issues, but now he knows all of them. I cried a bit, but I expressed myself. He was so remorseful and sad.

None of those behaviors happened after conversion. We are just still dealing with the consequences. Outside of sexuality, he is such a good man. We both concluded it was probably his early and frequent exposure to porn that warped things.

Please remember these behaviors were scattered at various times over a decade. In a condensed post, a person can look like a monster. But it is not reality.

 

[Susansmum]

Thank you everyone.

I did it.
I told him all that I have shared here today about what his sexual abuse has done to me. He knew some of my issues, but now he knows all of them. I cried a bit, but I expressed myself. He was so remorseful and sad.

None of those behaviors happened after conversion. We are just still dealing with the consequences. Outside of sexuality, he is such a good man. We both concluded it was probably his early and frequent exposure to porn that warped things.

Please remember these behaviors were scattered at various times over a decade. In a condensed post, a person can look like a monster. But it is not reality.

Congrats! Now the two of you can work together as one to heal.
God bless.

 

[thewanderer]

Congrats! Now the two of you can work together as one to heal.
God bless.

 

[hurtingwife]

I had a few more things I wanted to share with those of you who helped me today.
My husband had some positive ideas for how to help me feel safe. He will inquire occasionally to see if I might want/need affection or intimacy, but he will not, for the foreseeable future, ask me to meet his needs. That would leave me free to enjoy affection and sexual intimacy without feeling pressured. And I can say stop at any time. And he will be more loving with his touches and words. Considering the fact that I tend to crave real intimacy with him and have repeatedly resisted temptations to shut down, this should be a wonderful compromise for both of us.
He seemed shattered today. But also hopeful because I told him how much I love him and that I keep choosing forgiveness. He said he hates his faults. I said I love HIM. Despite the ugly truth of what he has done in the past, he is focusing on fixing it now. We had tried to resolve these issues in the past, but I had never been totally honest about how deeply I was wounded. Now he understands better.
He knows how wrong he was. He apologized and said how sorry he is. I started to feel safe again because I saw he wasn’t angry at all, just deeply wounded and so sad.
I want to thank all of you, for your prayers, your advice, and for the reality check you gave me. I don’t know if the talk would have gone so well, had I not practiced expressing myself like I did here. I learned that I had the right to tell the whole truth about this, and I began to feel that I owed it to my husband and my marriage to be so honest. God bless you all.

 

[FriendlyFace]

:thumbsup:I’m glad you spoke up. His reaction to you confiding your feelings gives me hope for you guys. I’ll keep you both in my prayers.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

So the things I am describing, the overall pattern of behavior my husband exhibited, these are not normal?

Please tell me, do men normally treat their new brides this way? Quickly becoming bored with giving affection, expecting daily sex on demand, ignoring injuries resulting from too frequent or rough sex, skipping foreplay, insisting on watching porn and going to strip clubs, using his body as a weapon to punish, persisting in masturbation despite my requests for him to stop?

If these are not normal, if they are not the ways that normal, healthy men treat their wives, then I need to know that.

I just wanted to join others who say that it is not normal.

I hope that you have gained something from this thread and that you will find a way forward towards healing. It can be done. I’m praying for you.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I had a few more things I wanted to share with those of you who helped me today.
My husband had some positive ideas for how to help me feel safe. He will inquire occasionally to see if I might want/need affection or intimacy, but he will not, for the foreseeable future, ask me to meet his needs. That would leave me free to enjoy affection and sexual intimacy without feeling pressured. And I can say stop at any time. And he will be more loving with his touches and words. Considering the fact that I tend to crave real intimacy with him and have repeatedly resisted temptations to shut down, this should be a wonderful compromise for both of us.
He seemed shattered today. But also hopeful because I told him how much I love him and that I keep choosing forgiveness. He said he hates his faults. I said I love HIM. Despite the ugly truth of what he has done in the past, he is focusing on fixing it now. We had tried to resolve these issues in the past, but I had never been totally honest about how deeply I was wounded. Now he understands better.
He knows how wrong he was. He apologized and said how sorry he is. I started to feel safe again because I saw he wasn’t angry at all, just deeply wounded and so sad.
I want to thank all of you, for your prayers, your advice, and for the reality check you gave me. I don’t know if the talk would have gone so well, had I not practiced expressing myself like I did here. I learned that I had the right to tell the whole truth about this, and I began to feel that I owed it to my husband and my marriage to be so honest. God bless you all.

I just found this thread, so forgive me if I take the discussion backward - I will try not to.

As I read through your responses, I remembered your other thread(s) and my heart ached. I was going to post and tell you to talk to him through a counselor, with someone else in the room, and after speaking with a counselor and practicing a dialogue. But I am very glad and heartened to hear that you were able to open up to your husband and explain just how wounded you have been. That took a lot of courage! :knight2:

I thank you for being so honest about what you’ve gone through. People don’t seem to have any idea how using porn and masturbation can warp our sexuality. Your frankness to explain what you are going through will help others to realize the serious depravity that has seeped into our culture and then flooded in with the internet.

I am glad to hear that your husband is distressed about how he has treated you. Saying that he knew no better at the time will only take him so far, and then he must be accountable in the present for his choices. Your reactions are involuntary, and you are acting to protect yourself from physical and emotional harm. If he gets angry at you, that is something HE needs to work on.

You both do need marital counseling, and each of you should also ideally have your own counselor. I know this is very expensive nowdays and there are fewer resources all the time. I would press for the marital counseling because you both need to work through these issues together and he particularly needs to know that you have been deeply wounded by your past history. A good marital therapist will help you express yourself and make sure that your husband understands what you are saying/feeling/thinking.

I have some of the same challenges. If you ever want to PM me, feel free.

 

[severus68]

So the things I am describing, the overall pattern of behavior my husband exhibited, these are not normal? Unfortunately, one of the reasons why I so readily forgave my husband is because I thought these were normal male behaviors.
After all, my dad told me at about 15 that my husband would expect me to use birth control and that he would want “a lady on the street, and a whore in the bedroom”. And yes, I was raised in a Christian home.
So my husband’s behavior seemed normal, and my Inlaws (also Christian) watched porn and my father-in-law went to strip clubs and massage parlors.

If these behaviors are not the norm for husbands to treat their wives, perhaps I have more reason to confront him than I thought.

Please tell me, do men normally treat their new brides this way? Quickly becoming bored with giving affection, expecting daily sex on demand, ignoring injuries resulting from too frequent or rough sex, skipping foreplay, insisting on watching porn and going to strip clubs, using his body as a weapon to punish, persisting in masturbation despite my requests for him to stop?

If these are not normal, if they are not the ways that normal, healthy men treat their wives, then I need to know that.

Christian or not, no husband should behave that way. That is not what a marriage should be. It should be about mutual love and respect.

I am so sorry about what you have gone through and are going through.You need to be firm in your resolve to speak openly to him, get counselling for both of you, not only for yourself but for your children.

Prayers for you. God help, guide and bless you.

 

[severus68]

I had a few more things I wanted to share with those of you who helped me today.
My husband had some positive ideas for how to help me feel safe. He will inquire occasionally to see if I might want/need affection or intimacy, but he will not, for the foreseeable future, ask me to meet his needs. That would leave me free to enjoy affection and sexual intimacy without feeling pressured. And I can say stop at any time. And he will be more loving with his touches and words. Considering the fact that I tend to crave real intimacy with him and have repeatedly resisted temptations to shut down, this should be a wonderful compromise for both of us.
He seemed shattered today. But also hopeful because I told him how much I love him and that I keep choosing forgiveness. He said he hates his faults. I said I love HIM. Despite the ugly truth of what he has done in the past, he is focusing on fixing it now. We had tried to resolve these issues in the past, but I had never been totally honest about how deeply I was wounded. Now he understands better.
He knows how wrong he was. He apologized and said how sorry he is. I started to feel safe again because I saw he wasn’t angry at all, just deeply wounded and so sad.
I want to thank all of you, for your prayers, your advice, and for the reality check you gave me. I don’t know if the talk would have gone so well, had I not practiced expressing myself like I did here. I learned that I had the right to tell the whole truth about this, and I began to feel that I owed it to my husband and my marriage to be so honest. God bless you all.

Great! I am just puzzled as to why he needs to ask you if you want affection/intimacy. That should be a given. You both should give each other affection.
God bless.

 

[hurtingwife]

Great! I am just puzzled as to why he needs to ask you if you want affection/intimacy. That should be a given. You both should give each other affection.
God bless.

Wow. I guess I had not even thought about that. I got so used to fending off unwanted and persistent sexual touching that I am still so jumpy. As an example, if my husband comes up behind me to caress or hug or kiss me, I tend to jump out of my skin and hop away quickly. I have been working very very hard these past couple years to force myself to remain still and calm and try to enjoy his attempts to give me affection. And his asking is probably because he knows I struggle with surprise touching. I am not one of those women who can “melt” into their husband’s embrace. For me it is a conscious progressive forcing myself to relax.
Years ago, I had to stop giving affection to my husband, because any kisses or hugs or back rubs immediately became a demand for intercourse. I could not freely touch him without being led to the bedroom. That is still a reality for us, frankly. He is so easily aroused that I have to be extremely careful not to lead him on, unless I can deliver.

 

[hurtingwife]

I am still open to the idea of marital counseling, but my husband may not be. We both agree that it could be dangerous to speak to a non-Catholic therapist, because they would not respect our beliefs about married sexuality. And there are no local Catholic counselours. So I don’t know what we are going to do. I don’t know how to find the kind of help we need, especially with us having little children to care for. Any ideas?

 

[hurtingwife]

Sorry, I have asked so many questions, but I have another question.

Is there anything (not West or Popcak) that I can read that can show definitively that it is acceptable for a wife to want pleasure in the marital act, and that she is allowed to move/touch in a way to enable pleasure, and that she is also allowed to ask her husband to move/touch in a way to enable pleasure?

I am looking for actual teachings of the Church, not a celebrity opinion. Because of all the trauma pre-conversion, I am having a hard time believing that Jesus would actually be pleased at all with my behavior if I attempt to enjoy sexual intimacy.

Btw, as I stated before, I have read Good News about Sex and Marriage and Holy Sex. So I am asking now about more authoritative teaching.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Sorry, I have asked so many questions, but I have another question.

Is there anything (not West or Popcak) that I can read that can show definitively that it is acceptable for a wife to want pleasure in the marital act, and that she is allowed to move/touch in a way to enable pleasure, and that she is also allowed to ask her husband to move/touch in a way to enable pleasure?

I am looking for actual teachings of the Church, not a celebrity opinion. Because of all the trauma pre-conversion, I am having a hard time believing that Jesus would actually be pleased at all with my behavior if I attempt to enjoy sexual intimacy.

Btw, as I stated before, I have read Good News about Sex and Marriage and Holy Sex. So I am asking now about more authoritative teaching.

I think that the Grizes reference that I gave you speaks specifically to that. Grizes is one of the last living theologians who helped on Humane Vitae. (It might be in the third volume)

He worked with Father John C. Ford. He was a Jesuit who also worked on Humane Vitae. He had an very good theological book as well called, “Marriage Questions (Contemporary Moral Theology, Volume 2)”. Unfortunately that one is out of print. I had one but it was damaged beyond repair. I think because it was written pre Humane Vitae, and the last reference he has is Casti Conubbi.

Also John Kippley has a book which is available, “Sex and the Marriage Covenant, a basis for morality”. His book carries an imprimatur and Nihil Obstat. Which means that the book is free of doctrinal errors.

 

[Debora123]

I am still open to the idea of marital counseling, but my husband may not be. We both agree that it could be dangerous to speak to a non-Catholic therapist, because they would not respect our beliefs about married sexuality. And there are no local Catholic counselours. So I don’t know what we are going to do. I don’t know how to find the kind of help we need, especially with us having little children to care for. Any ideas?

A lot of parish priests/deacons do counseling with no charge.

You might look into what your parish has to offer.

 

[Debora123]

Sorry, I have asked so many questions, but I have another question.

Is there anything (not West or Popcak) that I can read that can show definitively that it is acceptable for a wife to want pleasure in the marital act, and that she is allowed to move/touch in a way to enable pleasure, and that she is also allowed to ask her husband to move/touch in a way to enable pleasure?

I am looking for actual teachings of the Church, not a celebrity opinion. Because of all the trauma pre-conversion, I am having a hard time believing that Jesus would actually be pleased at all with my behavior if I attempt to enjoy sexual intimacy.

Btw, as I stated before, I have read Good News about Sex and Marriage and Holy Sex. So I am asking now about more authoritative teaching.

I don’t know what other reading material to suggest for you. Good News about Sex and Marriage and Holy Sex both have an “imprimatur”… meaning they have been carefully looked at by the Church and contain no information that is contrary to Church teaching.

Rest assured, even regardless of those 2 books, what you describe above is absolutely NOT a sin!