Sent in my official resignation letter to the LDS church

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zaffiroborant said:
So Lefty tell me can you let go and understand why non LDS might find this offensive? Just curious because I’ve never found and LDS member capable of empathizing with non members on this subject. Will you be different, will you show that LDS can empathize and understand another person?
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Zaffiroborant, you bring up an interesting point. When I was LDS and my mother learned of proxy baptisms done in the temple, she asked me that upon her death Not to submit her name and have her baptized. I promised her that I would honor her wishes.

It’s moot now, but yea, at least when I was LDS, it was never really discussed whether or not it was appropriate to submit the names that were culled from other places other than LDS families. There were people sent on missions whose mission it was was to go into various archieves and retrieve geneological information for temple work.
I dont know if they still do that.
 
That is my other issue…the lack of empathy for others’ beliefs…and the total rejection of historical documents…I think of the Roman catacombs…ancient documents of faith practices…
 
Marie, you make a legitimate observation about a tendency of the LDS to not “let go” of people who no longer wish to associate with them, and I agree that for those who truly want to leave and be left alone, our people’s efforts to “reactivate” them can be annoying in the extreme. Having lived both in and out of Utah, I think that’s especially the case within the smaller communities of Utah because the overall culture is still significantly influenced by LDS practices.

If you’re some poor schmoe living in a small farming community in Utah or southern Idaho and want out of the Church, you’re most likely going to be entirely surrounded by nothing but Latter-day Saints who’ll wish you were back and make efforts to accomplish that very thing. I think the problem is then exacerbated because their efforts are made with all this good will, which I believe is sincere but is so frustrating to the person who wants nothing to do with us and simply wishes to be left alone. The LDS person gets frustrated as well becasue she perceives her actions as being purely motivated and undergirded with genuine Christian concern. And so it all spirals downward.

For what it’s worth, there are plenty of us LDS who believe that having friends (or at least people who don’t hate us) is nearly as important as having converts and adherents. But we’re not the ones bringing you cookies! (not that you would want to eat mine anyway).

As you indicated above, this particular issue is much less pronounced for Catholics, probably in part because you are so much larger than us in numbers and you have a “contextual experience” that spans centuries as opposed to one that spans less than 200 years.
 
Lefty0908 said:
Marie, you make a legitimate observation about a tendency of the LDS to not “let go” of people who no longer wish to associate with them, and I agree that for those who truly want to leave and be left alone, our people’s efforts to “reactivate” them can be annoying in the extreme. Having lived both in and out of Utah, I think that’s especially the case within the smaller communities of Utah because the overall culture is still significantly influenced by LDS practices.

If you’re some poor schmoe living in a small farming community in Utah or southern Idaho and want out of the Church, you’re most likely going to be entirely surrounded by nothing but Latter-day Saints who’ll wish you were back and make efforts to accomplish that very thing. I think the problem is then exacerbated because their efforts are made with all this good will, which I believe is sincere but is so frustrating to the person who wants nothing to do with us and simply wishes to be left alone. The LDS person gets frustrated as well becasue she perceives her actions as being purely motivated and undergirded with genuine Christian concern. And so it all spirals downward.

For what it’s worth, there are plenty of us LDS who believe that having friends (or at least people who don’t hate us) is nearly as important as having converts and adherents. But we’re not the ones bringing you cookies! (not that you would want to eat mine anyway).

As you indicated above, this particular issue is much less pronounced for Catholics, probably in part because you are so much larger than us in numbers and you have a “contextual experience” that spans centuries as opposed to one that spans less than 200 years.
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You make very valid points here Lefty. 🙂 Especially for those who live in the Mormon Corridor.

Hopefully, and from what I have sensed over the past couple of decades, it’s becoming less of a hassle for people who want to resign their LDS membership to do so.

I do get the sense that that is becoming more and more so. And I also get the sense that it’s even true for those who live in UT/ID/AZ part of the country etc.

I think Stavros only really needs to tell the man who is trying to contact her that she has no interest and it should (hopefully) end any potential hassle she may feel she is getting.

I do expect the man means well, but that aside, he must not realize that her resignation has already taken effect regardless of what he may want to do. Who know. 🙂
 
OK, Z. I hear you and I’m on it. I’ll call Tommy Monson and have him shut 'er down. No more work for the dead. No more of those snot-faced 19-year-olds knocking on doors. No more manifestations of any sort from us that some might consider genuine concern for those whom we sincerely believe could benefit from our beliefs but are, as you and I know, actually a demonstration of a callous lack of “empathy.” We further promise to entirely jettison any hints of Matthew 28:19-20 from our belief system. Your demand for “empathy” is so compelling to me as to override the word of the Lord in canonized scripture.

Then by the same token, I’ll go ahead and give you the name and address of my much-loved Catholic brother and his wife who continually pray for me. Even though I find their prayers and expressions of concern for my soul to be a sweet and touching thing, in the name of your new, specialized definition of “empathy” you can contact them and tell them to stop. Lord knows they might also be praying for or ministering to someone who might not appreciate it, and we simply must eradicate this lack of “empathy.” Finally, to show our own superiority, you and I will each carry the largest chip on our shoulder that we can find – at least large enough for us to inscribe upon it the word “empathy” in bold, italicized letters. Z, you’ve changed my life!
 
Drawing on the inspirations of the Lord in Maccabees, the Catholic faith does pray for the dead–beyond Catholicism, offering rosaries, Masses, alms for their release into heaven.

I have shared here ancient documents and the deaths of Catholic martyrs who died for Christ…there are generations of countless Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant believers who have laid down their lives for Christ.

This fruit of martyrdom I have yet to see in Mormonism. Martyrdom, the shedding of one’s blood for Christ is the sign of a true and living faith in Christ.
 
Lefty0908 said:
OK, Z. I hear you and I’m on it. I’ll call Tommy Monson and have him shut 'er down. No more work for the dead. No more of those snot-faced 19-year-olds knocking on doors. No more manifestations of any sort from us that some might consider genuine concern for those whom we sincerely believe could benefit from our beliefs but are, as you and I know, actually a demonstration of a callous lack of “empathy.” We further promise to entirely jettison any hints of Matthew 28:19-20 from our belief system. Your demand for “empathy” is so compelling to me as to override the word of the Lord in canonized scripture.

Then by the same token, I’ll go ahead and give you the name and address of my much-loved Catholic brother and his wife who continually pray for me. Even though I find their prayers and expressions of concern for my soul to be a sweet and touching thing, in the name of your new, specialized definition of “empathy” you can contact them and tell them to stop. Lord knows they might also be praying for or ministering to someone who might not appreciate it, and we simply must eradicate this lack of “empathy.” Finally, to show our own superiority, you and I will each carry the largest chip on our shoulder that we can find – at least large enough for us to inscribe upon it the word “empathy” in bold, italicized letters. Z, you’ve changed my life!
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When mormons do their necro-dunking, it is with the intent to change the person’s beliefs. Even of martyrs, Popes, bishops, priests!! It is an attempt to invalidate the Faith that was their life, and in some cases, the reason they gave their life.

When we pray for the dead, we are not trying to convert dead spirits, or to invalidate the Faith they had in life. We believe the dead are judged for this life. There is no need to convert them. They are already judged to be with God, or not. Prayers and Masses said for the dead are to God, asking to grant them His Mercy.

We are commanded to pray for those who wrong us. It is an act of Mercy to pray for another’s conversion to Christ. This conversion is by the Holy Spirit, not by anything we do or say. We don’t baptize people by proxy, as some sort of pre-conversion step that all they have to do is accept this. If/when a person converts, it is their choice, and is not forced, or anticipated with a “pre-baptism”.

It is not concern for our dead you have at all, because if you did, you’d leave them alone. Not even death separates us from the Mormon menace! geez. Give them some rest, for heavens sake.

You can stow the prideful persecution complex. Nobody is buying it.
 
I’m not feeling persecuted. I’m being amused. Now with a seemingly straight face I’m being told that Catholics, who make claims of being in exclusive possession of the entirety of eternal truth, don’t really care too much whether or not others accept it. Somehow I just don’t think that represents the actual position of all communicant Catholics (notice how I capitalize the name of your faith?).

The difference here is that I take absolutely no offense to those of other faiths who tell me I’m wrong (even that I’m bound for hell) and that they have a better way of which they’d like to convince me. So when you call me a “necro-dunking mormon” I’m not so much feeling persecuted as I’m considering you irrelevant.

And speaking of that, now that this thread has turned entirely away from Stavros’ original post, it has become irrelevant, so I’ll move on. I sincerely wish Stavros the best and Godspeed. Finding one’s way in this world is heartbreakingly difficult. We all strain to see through the dark glass (I Cor. 13:12), but I consider Stavros to be a person of faith and hope in the Savior. God bless Stavros!
 
Lefty0908 said:
I’m not feeling persecuted. I’m being amused. Now with a seemingly straight face I’m being told that Catholics, who make claims of being in exclusive possession of the entirety of eternal truth, don’t really care too much whether or not others accept it. Somehow I just don’t think that represents the actual position of all communicant Catholics (notice how I capitalize the name of your faith?).
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Yes, I caught the amusement. It is of the sort I am familiar with, living here in Utah…poor non-Mormons, are so amusing, if only they had that speshul feeling… sigh

Who said we didn’t care? One doesn’t have to be all Mormon clinging to your doorstep, in people’s personal space, in order to care.
The difference here is that I take absolutely no offense to those of other faiths who tell me I’m wrong (even that I’m bound for hell) and that they have a better way of which they’d like to convince me. So when you call me a “necro-dunking mormon” I’m not so much feeling persecuted as I’m considering you irrelevant.
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A Mormon seeing another person as irrelevant…I could die from that surprise.
 
Lefty0908 said:
OK, Z. I hear you and I’m on it. I’ll call Tommy Monson and have him shut 'er down. No more work for the dead. No more of those snot-faced 19-year-olds knocking on doors. No more manifestations of any sort from us that some might consider genuine concern for those whom we sincerely believe could benefit from our beliefs but are, as you and I know, actually a demonstration of a callous lack of “empathy.” We further promise to entirely jettison any hints of Matthew 28:19-20 from our belief system. Your demand for “empathy” is so compelling to me as to override the word of the Lord in canonized scripture.

Then by the same token, I’ll go ahead and give you the name and address of my much-loved Catholic brother and his wife who continually pray for me. Even though I find their prayers and expressions of concern for my soul to be a sweet and touching thing, in the name of your new, specialized definition of “empathy” you can contact them and tell them to stop. Lord knows they might also be praying for or ministering to someone who might not appreciate it, and we simply must eradicate this lack of “empathy.” Finally, to show our own superiority, you and I will each carry the largest chip on our shoulder that we can find – at least large enough for us to inscribe upon it the word “empathy” in bold, italicized letters. Z, you’ve changed my life!
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I have never said you should stop all I’ve said is you should be able to understand why some one might find it offensive. From your response I see this is impossible for you.
 
I still haven’t heard anything yet other than the letter I got last month with the invitation brochure. I did run into the missionaries in my apartment complex and I invited them in for something to drink (it was over 105 outside, I felt bad for them) My husband and I actually taught them about the Catholic faith while they were over. They were really interested in the Eucharist (maybe we planted a seed?) They didn’t even try to teach us, they were too busy paying attention to us 😃
 
gatewood1988 said:
I still haven’t heard anything yet other than the letter I got last month with the invitation brochure. I did run into the missionaries in my apartment complex and I invited them in for something to drink (it was over 105 outside, I felt bad for them) My husband and I actually taught them about the Catholic faith while they were over. They were really interested in the Eucharist (maybe we planted a seed?) They didn’t even try to teach us, they were too busy paying attention to us 😃
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Wow! Awesome! Mary, Mother of All the Living, pray for them. 😃
 
So to reign us back into the original topic …

Today I snail-mailed ANOTHER letter, the third request to have my name removed from the membership rolls of the LDS church. I sent snail-mail copies to my local stake and ward leaders, the ones mentioned in the original letter from Greg Dodge.

Here’s the funny part - after looking up the mailing address for my geographic ward, apparently my ward building is 9 miles away, over 15 minutes away from my house. However, I know for a fact there’s a brand new ward building 2.7 miles away, only a 5 minute drive from my house. Gotta love those gerrymandered ward boundries!!
 
Stavros said:
Here’s the funny part - after looking up the mailing address for my geographic ward, apparently my ward building is 9 miles away, over 15 minutes away from my house. However, I know for a fact there’s a brand new ward building 2.7 miles away, only a 5 minute drive from my house. Gotta love those gerrymandered ward boundries!!
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Well you gotta have the proper priesthood power distributed in the proper way…whatever all that means…

🤷
 
Wow! Forceful and direct. I like that. Happy to have you among the faithful.
 
I think I read somewhere that you can call the membership office in SLC, and explain that you sent a certified letter how many months ago and you have not received a confrimation of resignation. You could probably tell them the only contact was from your Bishop at the front desk of your residence, after you specifically requested not to be contacted except for a letter stating your resignation has been completed. My understanding is that they will experdite the process, because it borders on a violation of Freedom of Religion. I will have to try and find the website that I read that, it was from someone that went through something similar to your situation.
 
Stavros said:
So to reign us back into the original topic …

Today I snail-mailed ANOTHER letter, the third request to have my name removed from the membership rolls of the LDS church. I sent snail-mail copies to my local stake and ward leaders, the ones mentioned in the original letter from Greg Dodge.

Here’s the funny part - after looking up the mailing address for my geographic ward, apparently my ward building is 9 miles away, over 15 minutes away from my house. However, I know for a fact there’s a brand new ward building 2.7 miles away, only a 5 minute drive from my house. Gotta love those gerrymandered ward boundries!!
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Hello Stavros,

Firstly I have to say what amazing strength you have. This must have been so difficult for you. I do not know a lot about the LDS, but was interested and certainly somewhat shocked at the treatment of people wishing to leave the Church. I cannot believe you have not received a letter yet. Hopefully this is not far away now so you can have the closure you so seek.

Secondly…welcome, welcome! :hug3:
The Catholic faith has such beauty. So much truth that speaks to the deepest part of your being. I am thrilled to be back, and nothing beats the feeling of receiving Holy Communion. The connection to God, the humbleness of it, the emotions…you are home Stavros, God has waited patiently for you.

Enjoy, good luck and God Bless you and your family.:gopray2:
 
paulp1002 said:
I think I read somewhere that you can call the membership office in SLC, and explain that you sent a certified letter how many months ago and you have not received a confrimation of resignation. You could probably tell them the only contact was from your Bishop at the front desk of your residence, after you specifically requested not to be contacted except for a letter stating your resignation has been completed. My understanding is that they will experdite the process, because it borders on a violation of Freedom of Religion. I will have to try and find the website that I read that, it was from someone that went through something similar to your situation.
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There have been very-well-publicized legal judgements against the LDS church for making it difficult for members to leave.

The one thing that the Mormon leadership fears more than being damned to “outer darkness” is BAD PUBLICITY! If you write to them and insinuate that you will “go public” with your difficulty in getting your name removed, you will get your name removed so fast that it will make your head spin.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
:extrahappy:

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