There are a lot of religions out there so which religion is going to have the say to which one the government follows?? Once you pick one religion and then pass laws that infringe on another religion you have just violated the Constitution.
But America has never been 100% secular… I can give you a complete list of laws that were bible-based, not to mention the money we use claims “in God we trust”.
How about we dont pick a “religion” in particular, rather we should adopt the qualities agreed upon by all the religions.
Great post, Eve! I like how you noted that man cannot serve two masters. We cannot serve both God and money and we cannot serve both God and secularism. In the end, we will choose between the two, and as God always asks of us what is hardest and least worldly, money and secularism win out. That is precisely the state America is in.Great post, Janet :)
I must deviate slightly; Muslims will never be our allies until we are Muslim ourselves. Though we are not wrong to look at how Muslims take their faith seriously and not wrong to note that we can learn from that example, it is best to learn from our ancestors', who were both promoters of the religious state as well as Catholic.
However, you are spot-on nonetheless. Even Muslims provide examples of how the civil application of religious law can shape society according to the standards of faith. It is a sad day when the sworn enemies of Christendom have one-upped us in terms of being serious about their faith.Well-said! Either we are serious about our faith, or we admit that it is just another “feel good spirituality” that isn’t important for the moral guidance of society or for anything else. There’s no gray area with God and truth; like Jesus said, “either you are with me or against me.”
Very true! Yes, they would still exist, since even a Catholic society is still a society of sinful humans who will be like herding cats oftentimes, but the facts are that such profligate vices as are rampant in Western civilization would be hampered and marginalized instead of being mainstream if the Church were the moral guide of society.
So it’s the Church’s fault that other religions fight with each other?
The Bible does not teach any such thing. I don’t care what Limbaugh and Hannity say.
So? The US constitution is not divine revelation. It was a man-made document with a wholly secularist overtone; aside from a brief blurb about the state not interfering in the free exercise of religion, it doesn’t even address religion at all. Hence, it misses the boat entirely on what makes for a sound nation and civilization. But I don’t expect much from the so-called “freethinking” crowd.
I have to disagree; having laws that had roots in Biblical concepts does not impart to America a truly Christian character anymore than the fact that Latin had its roots in pagan culture makes the Church pagan because it uses Latin.
Its all subjective.
You said it, not me.So it’s the Church’s fault that other religions fight with each other?
The Muslims haven’t been broken down by secularization because there is no real path to the material addictions that we have. They are of another time…
I am full U.S.A… Born and bred… But I am not falling into the individualism, secularization, freedom trap that I have been brainwashed to believe. I am a part of the Catholic Body first, and an American Citizen second.
There is nothing beautiful about a sinful, secularist society. If you think American culture is good, I worry for you. The moral relativism, the sexual lust, the materialism - this is what results from a secularist culture. How anyone can call himself or herself a Christian of any kind and think this is a good thing is beyond me.
Come on now, be a man and back up this arrant nonsense with facts. Prove to me that the Catholic Church is behind all religious strife in human society, past and present and future. Prove to me the Catholic Church is behind Muslim aggression towards non-Muslims, Israeli aggression towards Palestinians, Atheist aggression towards Buddhists in China and Tibet, Protestant aggression towards Catholics in America.You said it, not me.
Well-said. We are Catholics first - loyal to Christ and His Church before any transient man-made political state. No state is the direct creation of God, no secular government can trace its ideological lineage back to Christ and back to His apostles. Nation-states pass away, but the Faith is forever, and common sense tells us to which we must be loyal first.
I was more referring to foreign Muslims, not domestic ones. “Embracing” the modern world is probably a poor choice of words. What I meant to express is that in many traditional Muslim societies, like Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates, they have maintained many aspects of traditional society while still understanding international trade, using the internet, sophisticated building, etc. So perhaps they have not embraced modernity, but they are certainly able to work within it.
To be technical, they did not want to see those practices continue on the federal level. The Congregational Church remained the state religion of Massachussetts and Connecticut until 1833. Other states such as New York continued to have people pay taxes to some church until well into the 1800’s. Protestantism, in some form or another, was arguably the de facto state religion of the US until the 1920’s, as even proponents of seperation, such as Robert Boston who wrote Why the Religious Right is Wrong, readily admit.
Is that not basically what we have now? Different beliefs lobbying for their view? Unless one is chosen, than the whole purpose of uniting Church and state is lost.
Please feel free to elaborate.
Analogies are fantastic.
Exactly my point. Freedom of belief is not in danger, but what use is freedom of belief if there’s no freedom to act on those beliefs, or lack thereof (excepting actions that cause harm)?
An important part of this to remember is that our founding fathers rebelled against the king of England and his Church. Not against Rome. They were opposed to the king interferring with the Church. But they didn’t explicitly say vice versa. History is immensely important in this debate. I’m saddened that so many Catholics support separating Church & state. If we claim the Church to be the bride of Christ, how can we call ourselves christians and disregard His bride when it comes to making laws? Under whose authority are we creating laws and enforcing them on people?
I really dont know where to start… I guess what I should point out is that; by eliminating Church within the State -we’ve virtually paved the way for atheism to develop positions within law … But the problem increases… We see atheism spreading from law to within the mindset of society… This bothers me in particular, because what I see emerging is selfishness and distrust.
