separation

[exiled]

How in the world does this work, practically speaking? In a nutshell, I’m at the end of my rope with my husband. I’ve tried to accomodate him in every way, and he’s got issues of his own that he’s got to resolve. While I continue to allow myself to be his (figurative) punching bag, he is not going to examine himself and work toward change. We have eight children and I can’t think of how this would work. I mean, to minimize impact on the kids, can I just say that we live together, but I will no longer be your wife (in the Biblical sense). Do I have to leave and find a new home for my children and myself? I have the financial flexibility to leave if I should, either staying in the same town, or going back to where my family is.
Does there have to be a legal trail?

 

[Mayita30]

but what is exactly your problem with your husband? Does he complain too much? Do you feel that you have to defend yourself always form insults? Do you feel that you are not valued? Do you feel that he doesnt help with anything in the house? Do you feel that he does not want to communicate?

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

How in the world does this work, practically speaking? In a nutshell, I’m at the end of my rope with my husband. I’ve tried to accomodate him in every way, and he’s got issues of his own that he’s got to resolve. While I continue to allow myself to be his (figurative) punching bag, he is not going to examine himself and work toward change. We have eight children and I can’t think of how this would work. I mean, to minimize impact on the kids, can I just say that we live together, but I will no longer be your wife (in the Biblical sense). Do I have to leave and find a new home for my children and myself? I have the financial flexibility to leave if I should, either staying in the same town, or going back to where my family is.
Does there have to be a legal trail?

This all depends on the relationship you have with your husband and the willingness of both of you to play by the rules you’ve agreed on.

Regardless, you would be doing both yourself and your children a disservice if you did not at least have an initial consult with a family law attorney to uncover his and your legal rights in a variety of scenarios. If you won’t go for yourself, go to protect your children.

There are LCSWs and MFTs who do what’s termed “divorce therapy” to assist parents in mitigating the impact of their separation/divorce on their children. Such a therapist may be able to guide your and your husband through “living together but not married” situation.

However you deal with this, you need to act in the best interest of your kids.

Luna

 

[exiled]

but what is exactly your problem with your husband? Does he complain too much? Do you feel that you have to defend yourself always form insults? Do you feel that you are not valued? Do you feel that he doesnt help with anything in the house? Do you feel that he does not want to communicate?

Well, the short version is that no matter what I do, and no matter how I try to do things as he wants them done, I always do ‘x’ wrong. He has anger issues that cause him to lash out violently in word (not physically) at the kids or myself. He blames our sex life a lot, but I’ve made sure to have sex with him at every opportunity, and he still does the same. It’s not something I’ve come to suddenly, and I really don’t want to divorce, I just want him to know that I am dead serious that this has got to stop, and if he won’t work on himself then I will not be part of his life. I’m not sure this is possible while we’re still in the same house, so if I have to go somewhere else to make him understand then I will.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

How in the world does this work, practically speaking? In a nutshell, I’m at the end of my rope with my husband. I’ve tried to accomodate him in every way, and he’s got issues of his own that he’s got to resolve. While I continue to allow myself to be his (figurative) punching bag, he is not going to examine himself and work toward change. We have eight children and I can’t think of how this would work. I mean, to minimize impact on the kids, can I just say that we live together, but I will no longer be your wife (in the Biblical sense). Do I have to leave and find a new home for my children and myself? I have the financial flexibility to leave if I should, either staying in the same town, or going back to where my family is.
Does there have to be a legal trail?

If possible, do not do that. Do not separate from your husband.

You have a burden on your shoulders and it is not me who is taking this burden so asking you to carry the burden may be sadistic. But as a fruit or a terribly shattered family, I would say, for your children: “Do not do that!”.

I am now helping girls who have family problems, fathers who drink and take drugs, fathers who are in jail, fathers that are everything but a father. Knowing this, I tell you, please, do not leave your husband.

The other day I was treating a girl who has a messy behavior at school and I asked her what her problems were. Her demeanour was weak, her eyes dark, her smile absent. All of a sudden, after a fey more questions, I got the point. I asked her : “You miss your father, no?”. She said : “yes”. and I said, “so all the problems of your life is that you need a father, no?”, she rose her eyes to me, eyes that suddenly had become bright, and with a lovely smile, she said: “Yes” and the yes came with the words, the hands, the body all of her was an yes.

Her father is in prison…

I know that you are in dispair, I know that I have no right to ask you anything, I am just sharing…

If you need me, just post or PM or email me.

 

[Lancer]

Well, the short version is that no matter what I do, and no matter how I try to do things as he wants them done, I always do ‘x’ wrong. He has anger issues that cause him to lash out violently in word (not physically) at the kids or myself. He blames our sex life a lot, but I’ve made sure to have sex with him at every opportunity, and he still does the same. It’s not something I’ve come to suddenly, and I really don’t want to divorce, I just want him to know that I am dead serious that this has got to stop, and if he won’t work on himself then I will not be part of his life. I’m not sure this is possible while we’re still in the same house, so if I have to go somewhere else to make him understand then I will.

I have one strong recommendation…your husband needs to go on a men’s retreat…I mean a men’s retreat…not a parish renewal retreat…but a real men’s retreat…a…Father Larry Richards or Fr. Benedict Groeschel or his* Franciscan Order’s*…type retreat…and if he agrees…or is willing to consider it…you should commit to do the same…a Women of Grace or similar type retreat. I know in both cases arranging for help with the children might be a hurdle…but I am sure you that can get the support that you will need.

The Goal: not to “fix” himself or for you to "fix"yourself…but simply to open your heart and mind – with the great gift of grace from the Holy Spirit – to see how much God loves “the other”… I guarantee you…I promise you…that if you get that grace and tangible insight…almost an inspiration with a vision at the same time (not a mystic’s vision but a mystic’s insight into a Truth about God…it is not a human feeling and not a human emotional experience, but a supra-natural experience…a pure gift from God)…attaining a knowledge that is so true, so real, and so tangible that it is overwhelming…it will take your breath away…to really see just how much God loves your spouse and vice versa.

Then…you can both begin to work on the “nuts and bolts” that make daily life in a marriage work…make it a challenge with charity, hope and joy as its anchor points.

For your consideration.
Pax Christi

 

[EasterJoy]

When you are married, you live in a single conjugal home to the extent that you are able to live in peace. Exactly what that means is something you will want to work out with someone “with skin on”…meaning, via face-to-face pastoral counselling in which you can safely disclose everything about your situation. The kind of advice you can get on a forum of this nature has its merits, but as a primary source, it is totally insufficient.

Find a priest with an ability to reach you in counselling and guide you according to the mission of your baptism and marriage vows or who can help you with what you need to find to a counsellor who can. As for the advice here, it is merely something to consider from the vantage point of your actual situation. It could help a lot, but it can’t replace true pastoral guidance.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How in the world does this work, practically speaking? In a nutshell, I’m at the end of my rope with my husband. I’ve tried to accomodate him in every way, and he’s got issues of his own that he’s got to resolve. While I continue to allow myself to be his (figurative) punching bag, he is not going to examine himself and work toward change. We have eight children and I can’t think of how this would work. I mean, to minimize impact on the kids, can I just say that we live together, but I will no longer be your wife (in the Biblical sense). Do I have to leave and find a new home for my children and myself? I have the financial flexibility to leave if I should, either staying in the same town, or going back to where my family is.
Does there have to be a legal trail?

Please, do 2 things before you think of separation.

Go see your priest. And, go for couples counseling. If your spouse will not go, go yourself. You have 8 children! They deserve a father. While I think being an angry father is not optimal, if he is not truly abusing you, but is critical and scornful, then that is an issue that should be worked on.

You can stand your ground without leaving the home. Your children will be traumatized by a separation.

You said he has stated his anger is because of your sex life or lack thereof, yet you want to stay in the same home and not be his sexual wife? This is like torture to a man.

Please, go see your priest, with your husband if possible. Then, go to counseling. Ask him to go with you, tell him that you cannot go on the way things are, but that you love him and want to fix the problems, but that he is also responsible for his part. If he refuses, go yourself. Please do not separate at this time. You said you accommodate him, do not do this any more, but do not cut him off from your affection.

You can also read this book, it has helped me a lot over the years.

Boundaries

 

[NPalmby]

Well, the short version is that no matter what I do, and no matter how I try to do things as he wants them done, I always do ‘x’ wrong. He has anger issues that cause him to lash out violently in word (not physically) at the kids or myself. He blames our sex life a lot, but I’ve made sure to have sex with him at every opportunity, and he still does the same. It’s not something I’ve come to suddenly, and I really don’t want to divorce, I just want him to know that I am dead serious that this has got to stop, and if he won’t work on himself then I will not be part of his life. I’m not sure this is possible while we’re still in the same house, so if I have to go somewhere else to make him understand then I will.

Exiled, I could have written this paragraph myself. This is what I’m going through with my own husband right now, so please know that I’m praying for you! Obviously we’re in different situations, but I do understand how it feels to always be on eggshells with your husband and to feel the need to protect your children from his anger.

I’m afraid I can’t offer any advice about the specific situation because I, too, am prayerfully discerning what God’s plan for our life is. (That is, how can I help my husband heal while keeping my children and myself safe?) However, I do echo the advice to speak with a priest or another qualified counselor.

Know that I’m praying for you, and will be asking St. Monica to intercede for you. God bless you!

 

[Catholicpotato]

Well, the short version is that no matter what I do, and no matter how I try to do things as he wants them done, I always do ‘x’ wrong. He has anger issues that cause him to lash out violently in word (not physically) at the kids or myself. He blames our sex life a lot, but I’ve made sure to have sex with him at every opportunity, and he still does the same. It’s not something I’ve come to suddenly, and I really don’t want to divorce, I just want him to know that I am dead serious that this has got to stop, and if he won’t work on himself then I will not be part of his life. I’m not sure this is possible while we’re still in the same house, so if I have to go somewhere else to make him understand then I will.

Is this a recent development in your marriage? Has he always been like this?

 

[exiled]

I have one strong recommendation…your husband needs to go on a men’s retreat…I mean a men’s retreat…not a parish renewal retreat…but a real men’s retreat…a…Father Larry Richards or Fr. Benedict Groeschel or his* Franciscan Order’s*…type retreat…and if he agrees…or is willing to consider it…you should commit to do the same…a Women of Grace or similar type retreat. I know in both cases arranging for help with the children might be a hurdle…but I am sure you that can get the support that you will need.

The Goal: not to “fix” himself or for you to "fix"yourself…but simply to open your heart and mind – with the great gift of grace from the Holy Spirit – to see how much God loves “the other”… I guarantee you…I promise you…that if you get that grace and tangible insight…almost an inspiration with a vision at the same time (not a mystic’s vision but a mystic’s insight into a Truth about God…it is not a human feeling and not a human emotional experience, but a supra-natural experience…a pure gift from God)…attaining a knowledge that is so true, so real, and so tangible that it is overwhelming…it will take your breath away…to really see just how much God loves your spouse and vice versa.

Then…you can both begin to work on the “nuts and bolts” that make daily life in a marriage work…make it a challenge with charity, hope and joy as its anchor points.

For your consideration.
Pax Christi

Personally, I would love that, I I’ve heard of real conversions coming from such retreats, but the challenge is getting him to agree. He was flipping out on me when I told our priest (and he really likes our priest), I told him I wouldn’t talk to him anymore without an arbiter, because it just turns into me being ripped apart with the cruelest stuff he can come up with. It’s absolutely hateful. Do you know of a web site, or should I just search those retreats?

 

[Neden]

It seems that you are not out of options. Try to preserve your marriage. Having your husband and/or both of you attend a retreat is a good one. Also seeking out counseling/therapy for your husband and/or you is a another. Of course, we cannot downplay the importance of prayer in this situation. Although we are not in the business of changing people – but God does change people and yes, people can change through the help of the Holy Spirit. Continue to pray for him, your children, and yourself. Ask for the graces you need to get through this.

I have a recommendation in terms of where you might find some solid Catholic resources. Check out catholictherapists.com to find a therapist in your area. This site also has links to various sources which could be of help.

I am new to this forum myself. If you get a chance check out my free blog.

Neden
%between%

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Personally, I would love that, I I’ve heard of real conversions coming from such retreats, but the challenge is getting him to agree. He was flipping out on me when I told our priest (and he really likes our priest), I told him I wouldn’t talk to him anymore without an arbiter, because it just turns into me being ripped apart with the cruelest stuff he can come up with. It’s absolutely hateful. Do you know of a web site, or should I just search those retreats?

Well, you have given and hint. Tell me if I am wrong. Your husband seems to be one of those person whose opinion must be respected otherwise he starts shouting.
Look, I would say that you would have to rewind your movie or reset your computer. " it just turns into me being ripped apart ", this should never happen no matter what he says. You cannot fell insulted by him otherwise he will kill you psychologically.

Tell you a theory of psychologists as if it were addressed to you. When a person talks, there is a superficial meaning and a deep meaning. I remember a lady telling me: “It is so cold!” when she wanted to tell me: “Please shut that window for me!”. Of course I did not understand till she said the 2nd sentence. Ladies are specialists on that: they say one thing and they mean another.

Men are the same. He arrives home and say: “You, son of a bh!" when he intends to say: “My Boss was stupid and shouted at me!”. When he shouts: "I do not not want to see that b**d again!” referring to the priest he is really saying: “Boy, I cannot stand seeing myself naked psychologically before him, because I feel I am a bad person!”. By the way, if he says: “I am the best!” he may mean: “I am the worst but shouting may people realize that I am the best!”.

Pardon me if I am wrong, but it seems your husband is very fragile psychologically so he hides behind a shield of aggression, bad words and so on. You know, in the brain, the point of defense is close to the point of attack. when someone feels threatened (though there is no threat, he just feels like it), just attacks (not to be attacked, though no one is attacking him). Confusing? It needed more space to explain.

I am going to be very rude but it is to your own good, pardon. If a dog barks at you, do you feel offended? Do you bark back? No? Treat your husband the same way…

Oh! But my husband is not a dog! I do not know! When WE, me too, when we are out of our minds, we behave like animals. So, when he starts behaving that way, it is not your husband talking, he is out of himself.

And, please, do not get offended, please. If you do not want to get offended, you will not get offended. It is up to you. A brave priest my friend who died recently told a memorable sentence: “I only get offended by whom I want…” If your husband gets out of his mind, do not get offended, think that he does not mean it, he is just out of his mind…

 

[Eli4n4]

Well, you have given and hint. Tell me if I am wrong. Your husband seems to be one of those person whose opinion must be respected otherwise he starts shouting.
Look, I would say that you would have to rewind your movie or reset your computer. " it just turns into me being ripped apart ", this should never happen no matter what he says. You cannot fell insulted by him otherwise he will kill you psychologically.

Tell you a theory of psychologists as if it were addressed to you. When a person talks, there is a superficial meaning and a deep meaning. I remember a lady telling me: “It is so cold!” when she wanted to tell me: “Please shut that window for me!”. Of course I did not understand till she said the 2nd sentence. Ladies are specialists on that: they say one thing and they mean another.

Men are the same. He arrives home and say: “You, son of a bh!" when he intends to say: “My Boss was stupid and shouted at me!”. When he shouts: "I do not not want to see that b**d again!” referring to the priest he is really saying: “Boy, I cannot stand seeing myself naked psychologically before him, because I feel I am a bad person!”. By the way, if he says: “I am the best!” he may mean: “I am the worst but shouting may people realize that I am the best!”.

Pardon me if I am wrong, but it seems your husband is very fragile psychologically so he hides behind a shield of aggression, bad words and so on. You know, in the brain, the point of defense is close to the point of attack. when someone feels threatened (though there is no threat, he just feels like it), just attacks (not to be attacked, though no one is attacking him). Confusing? It needed more space to explain.

I am going to be very rude but it is to your own good, pardon. If a dog barks at you, do you feel offended? Do you bark back? No? Treat your husband the same way…

Oh! But my husband is not a dog! I do not know! When WE, me too, when we are out of our minds, we behave like animals. So, when he starts behaving that way, it is not your husband talking, he is out of himself.

And, please, do not get offended, please. If you do not want to get offended, you will not get offended. It is up to you. A brave priest my friend who died recently told a memorable sentence: “I only get offended by whom I want…” If your husband gets out of his mind, do not get offended, think that he does not mean it, he is just out of his mind…

Soooo then if he is constantly out of his mind then what would you suggest to fix the situation. I agree with you, but even if you keep yourself from being hurt by him in this way, is it really a good idea to stick around a person who is really just acting like a rabbid dog all the time? Especially since the kids will not be able to understand this concept and protect themselves?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Soooo then if he is constantly out of his mind then what would you suggest to fix the situation. I agree with you, but even if you keep yourself from being hurt by him in this way, is it really a good idea to stick around a person who is really just acting like a rabbid dog all the time? Especially since the kids will not be able to understand this concept and protect themselves?

It seems I touched a chord. Let me thing and I will answer carefully and thoughtfully, OK? I need to think first and put my ideas in order…Thanks…

 

[exiled]

I appreciate everyone’s responses. I posted a few months ago because he was having anger fits and blaming our sex life, which has always been his fall back excuse to his dissatisfaction in our marriage. I’ve always been either pregnant or nursing, and during late summer I was weaning our last (God willing) child, but had no cycle yet to go on, so sex was pretty infrequent, although we did take some risks that were scary for me, but he wouldn’t have it any other way.
Anyway, since my cycle returned I’ve been having all the sex he could possibly want on the safe days, and admittedly he’s been quiet through the abstinent periods.
I’m going to get off track here…
What I’m probably going to do is tell him that he must see a particular priest (which is what OUR priest told him to do when we went for our one-time session with him back in…October or so.) Until then he can consider us living as brother and sister. I cannot give myself to him like that and be hated like that the next day. It is so painful and humiliating.
My “demand” will probably be met with another raging display, but I’m not going to back down. This has got to change, and I guess it’s just a matter of who digs their heels in longer.

 

[Neden]

It is also important to note if you are in a dangerous situation or not. No woman and her children are expected to stay in a household where their physical and emotional well being is in great danger. Especially physical danger.

If indeed there is real danger to your safety and he is violent, I am aware that statistically in psychology violent spouses generally do make a turn for the better if they are actually taken down to the police station for the behavior. For some it is a wake up call. Of course, this is based on statistics. Each person is different.

Now I am not sure that this is the case – what type of abuse you and your children are going through. It could be that he is just someone who is miserable to be around. I know that in the tradition of the Catholic Church, St. Monica had a very difficult husband, and also St.Rita. They were able to overcome through prayer and penance.

God bless you!
Neden

 

[joanofarc2008]

You are not saying anything about physical violence but the emotional abuse does really concern me - why don’t you read through this Statement by the USCCB on Domestic Violence as well keeping in mind that it is not an opinion of any of ours - it is simply a statement of the Bishops. It also has some good resources in there as well. Since none of us is there seeing the situation first hand it is hard to give good advice but we can give support.

 

[rainbow1]

My heart is aching for you because you are in such a difficult situation. Emotional abuse is never ok and can be very harmful. However, in your situation, please be careful about making stances that could push your husband away. The reality is that if you get divorced, then he probably will have regular visitations with the children and away from you…like every other weekend type of thing. From what I have seen, judges often will not take verbal abuse into consideration when making custody arrangements. If your children are separated from you , which is what will happen if you get a divorce, then you will not be able to protect them or help them during your husband’s emotional rages, which likely will not stop just because he is away from you, and in fact might be a whole lot worse if he is stressed by taking care of children alone. Also, with that many children it would be extremely difficult for you to get employment and pay for childcare. Should you have to stay in an emotionally abusive relationship? No! But if you don’t, then the children will likely suffer alot more than they are now. Furthermore, your husband could get re married right away , and then you would have to deal with another woman raising your children for at least part of the time and it may not be the values you want taught to them…and believe me, the court systems do not protect morality. What you feel very wrong situations for your children to be in the court could look at as helpful. After my own divorce, a court judge tried to make my young daughter more secularized…no joke. It is hard to see your children shred up by our secular world and legally not be able to do anything when your ex has temporary custody of them.
Have you checked into Retrouvaille weekends that you and your husband could go to? This might be helpful. Divorce is rarely a helpful thing, and the results are usually much worse than anyone can imagine…not only on the children, but on you as you would have to watch them suffer and not be able to go help them. Your temporary misery offered up could potentially be your children’s saving grace. God bless and good wishes…

 

[faithfully]

First of all,

I do not hear you saying Divorce. I hear the word “seperation”

Def. stay with your priest councel. Without looking through your old posts, I vaguely remember. Was it you who had to wean your child early so your husband could have sex again, because he just couldn’t possibly wait? Not even for the health of your child.

If you have the means to leave, I think some men in fact benefit when they realize that you stick around BECAUSE YOU LOVE THEM. Not because they are a meal ticket. I think they also realize they need to be loveable. Because you and children will be fed.

There is much to be said for explaining: I am here because I love you. NOT because I need your wallet.

A man that wants to trap you will take issue with that. Any other man is generally thrilled to realize, they are not just a paycheck.

I don’t like the idea of splitting a family. Children can be told that you are taking them on a little 2 week vacation. Probably enough time for DH to sign up and prove to you he’s going to counceling.

You don’t need to go into detail… but I find it disturbing that he’s always harping on sex. It kind of sounds like he has some unreasonable rock-the-planitary-system expectations. It sounds as though he’s treating you as though you’re just are not enough for him. I can’t imagine the pain or humilation.

That said, I also wonder if his hormones are off. To constantly get angry over sex, sounds like a man who either has some major physch issues, or who is on steroids. You don’t indicate that his problem may be either of those. But his hormones could be tweaking him out. Men don’t generally jump on this like women do.

My prayers are with you!