separation

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Soooo then if he is constantly out of his mind then what would you suggest to fix the situation. I agree with you, but even if you keep yourself from being hurt by him in this way, is it really a good idea to stick around a person who is really just acting like a rabbid dog all the time? Especially since the kids will not be able to understand this concept and protect themselves?

Forget the kids. They know how to protect themselves. You cannot imagine how resilient they are. They survive hell and fire that would have killed an adult. And they learn about life. They know about mummy who stood it all…in these times of easy divorce…

I am terribly careful in giving advice. My “guru” told me: “If you do no good, at least do not do any harm” and told me too: “Do not break anything that you cannot mend”.

So, as you asked for my advice, I will give you. First of all, I must tell that what worries me most is you. Not your husband, not your children. You. You are the pillar of the house, I guess you are a very tender wife and mother, and if I, in any way, hurt you, I am hurting the pillar of the house. To do that, better keep away. So, if in any time, in any occasion or sentence you feel I am wrong, I am overdoing it, please do not refrain to tell me clearly and in any terms. You wont hurt me even if You shout at me. But I want to do you no harm.

I think your husband is a man full of fears. Full it too soft a word. When you see him shouting, do not see him as a “macho” man who wants to impose his authority. See him as a child full of fears.

I explain. When there is an agression, the brain receives the stimula and each animal is programmed to react in a reaction (pardon my english it is not well written) of flight or fight. It is the flight/fight (FF) situation. A sparrow flights, a lion fights. The lion sleeps 20 out of 24 hours for he has no worries. He is a predator. He fights, he kills. Not the sparrow. He is a prey, so he is always turning is head around and if he is in your window and you make a sudden noise, he does not think. He is programmed to flight, so in a micro-second he flies away. Now, we are cousins of the primates (and i would ask anybody to not discuss that). We are more prey than predator. In the primitive times, man would eat seeds and vegetables. Rarely man would be a predator and would go hunting. It was a hard time and would consume much energy. Anyhow, I think that you would easily accept that we are more prey than predator.

Now, as I told you, the point of flight in the brain is close to the point of fight.So, if there is too much danger and the point of flight is too much stimulated, the electricity jumps to the point of fight and the (who was terribly afraid) person attacks. And then we have the strange situation when a person who is too much afraid, cannot bear any more and attacks. That is, in my view, thousands of km away, the situation of your husband.

Some examples:

• dont corner a cat: he will be so scared to death that, suddenly, he may jump on you and hurt you.
• in the first world war, the trench battles were horrible and if you do not know, you may take a 5 minute investigation. Some soldiers were so scared of the months of waiting for a bomb to fall on their heads that all of a sudden you would see a soldier jumping out os a trench, strart running shouting (this is important) towards the enemy only to be mowed by a machine gun. I said shouting for this was a not intelligent m"ove to conquer field. It was a crazy reaction of the body. On shouting,they were attracting attention to he fellow.

Investigating for you I came across a forum ( physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=86471&page=3 ) and I could not find the guy who said it as the forum was slow and I had no patience to waid: “My theory is simply that the so-called ‘feats of superhuman strength’ are just fight responses in panic/emergency situations.”. I agree. Many times I heard medal winning was heroes who said that they were no heroes, it just happened that they did something crazy for they were trying to save their lives. On the contrary of the above mentioned soldier, they were lucky.

Now, how to deal with a frightened adult ( at this time I suppose that you may put the **hypothesis **that your husband is a man FULL, I repeat, FULL of fears) .

Well, the same method you use with children full of fear:

1. • tenderness: hello, baby, it is nothing !
   • pulse and firmness: STOP that crying, it is just the fireman horn
   • explanation: hello, baby, do not cry, it is just crazy grandfather with a mask; Daddy, take the mask! See! It isnot the devil, it is grandffather…
   I just said the 3 strategies just for you to have hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But I do not want you to start using them now. It is too much for you. One step at a time.
   
   Now, what I simply wanted was you to make a list of your husband fears. Maybe you never thought on that. when he shouts, ask yourself why?
   
   Let me put a scenario that may be true. You husband is a methodic person. He wants everything in place. He does not tolerate that one book be a milimiter outside the place it is. If it is not, he starts shouting. Now, you discover your husband is fearful of disorder.
   
   Or that your husband was a poor person and now has 8 children and he is afraid of not being able to raise them.
   
   Or that he is a very sensitive man who cannot hear too much noise. Now, 8 children … another one to the list.
   
   Now, I would ask you please to prioritarize. 1,2,3,4,5, by ordeer of (name removed by moderator)ortance…
   
   If this makes sense to you, readey to help. If not, just sorry, and throw it away and delete it.
   
   If you have anything to criticize me, dont hesistate and do not take care of wrods, I do not get hurst easily…
   
   God Bless You

 

[Tietjen]

I haven’t read all the posts but have you looked into retruvaille??? I’ll include the web address below. I have heard MANY good things about this organization and it has saved many marriages from what I have been told. Perhaps your husband will be open to the idea??? God bless.

retrouvaille.org/

 

[Castello]

You asked for websites for retreats…

retrouvaille.org/

nfcmusa.org/

guslloyd.com/?page_id=186

e5men.org/

realcatholicmen.com/

www.exceptionalmarriages.com

 

[joanofarc2008]

Forget the kids. They know how to protect themselves. You cannot imagine how resilient they are. They survive hell and fire that would have killed an adult. And they learn about life. They know about mummy who stood it all…in these times of easy divorce…

I am terribly careful in giving advice. My “guru” told me: “If you do no good, at least do not do any harm” and told me too: “Do not break anything that you cannot mend”.

So, as you asked for my advice, I will give you. First of all, I must tell that what worries me most is you. Not your husband, not your children. You. You are the pillar of the house, I guess you are a very tender wife and mother, and if I, in any way, hurt you, I am hurting the pillar of the house. To do that, better keep away. So, if in any time, in any occasion or sentence you feel I am wrong, I am overdoing it, please do not refrain to tell me clearly and in any terms. You wont hurt me even if You shout at me. But I want to do you no harm.u

What is a guru? I don’t know if this a language issue but usually guru does not indicate a Catholic relationship but something more “new age.” Honestly there is nothing about the recounting of her husbands behavior that sounds like it belongs in a Catholic marriage and I believe at this point she should receive some advice from her priest or someone with some eyes on the situation as she has in the past.

OP- God bless you and I am so sorry this is going on during the Holy days.

 

[rainbow1]

What is a guru? I don’t know if this a language issue but usually guru does not indicate a Catholic relationship but something more “new age.” Honestly there is nothing about the recounting of her husbands behavior that sounds like it belongs in a Catholic marriage and I believe at this point she should receive some advice from her priest or someone with some eyes on the situation as she has in the past.

OP- God bless you and I am so sorry this is going on during the Holy days.

I agree that seeing a priest or a nun would be a good idea!

 

[halleone]

Well, the short version is that no matter what I do, and no matter how I try to do things as he wants them done, I always do ‘x’ wrong. He has anger issues that cause him to lash out violently in word (not physically) at the kids or myself. He blames our sex life a lot, but I’ve made sure to have sex with him at every opportunity, and he still does the same. It’s not something I’ve come to suddenly, and I really don’t want to divorce, I just want him to know that I am dead serious that this has got to stop, and if he won’t work on himself then I will not be part of his life. I’m not sure this is possible while we’re still in the same house, so if I have to go somewhere else to make him understand then I will.

I have been through this; no physical abuse, but verbal, financial, social, and emotional abuses were a part of my daily life. I sought counselling, went by myself, because he felt all the issues were mine alone. After 35 years of it (the kids were long gone), I left him. He eventually did see the cousellor I was seeing; it came out that he is/was a narcissist. We were separated for over a year, then decided to try again. It wasn’t easy for the first few years, but he DID make changes, and so too did I. He is now in very poor health and I don’t expect he will live for very many more years, but I am grateful that the time away from each other ultimately brought us back and renewed our commitment to each other.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I have been through this; no physical abuse, but verbal, financial, social, and emotional abuses were a part of my daily life. I sought counselling, went by myself, because he felt all the issues were mine alone. After 35 years of it (the kids were long gone), I left him. He eventually did see the cousellor I was seeing; it came out that he is/was a narcissist. We were separated for over a year, then decided to try again. It wasn’t easy for the first few years, but he DID make changes, and so too did I. He is now in very poor health and I don’t expect he will live for very many more years, but I am grateful that the time away from each other ultimately brought us back and renewed our commitment to each other.

I am so glad that he and you were able to work on this to the point that in the end you were there to comfort each other. My marriage to a narcissist ended in divorce but he had violent tendencies as well. God bless you. PS- I am not trying to diagnose the OP’s husband so please don’t anyone take it that way - no one on here knows enough about the situation to do that nor should we do that.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

What is a guru? I don’t know if this a language issue but usually guru does not indicate a Catholic relationship but something more “new age.” Honestly there is nothing about the recounting of her husbands behavior that sounds like it belongs in a Catholic marriage and I believe at this point she should receive some advice from her priest or someone with some eyes on the situation as she has in the past.

OP- God bless you and I am so sorry this is going on during the Holy days.

You want to show yourself as the hero and me as the villain.
Be it. You are the hero… A hero that I do not think cares too much about the OP but about yourself…You understood nothing of what I said.
Unfortunately, you forced me to do what I hate: to talk about myself. I will do it for the OP not for you. I will do for if I can help to avoid a divorce I will do the best in my life.
I have got 5 years of philosophy and 4 years of theology.
Above that I have got more 12 disciplines in Classics and Psychology and 11 years counseling. I work with UNESCO and some International Organizations that I avoid to tell.
I was not ordained priest for God did not want to, though it was what I wanted.
If I was not married and wanted to become a priest, with my studies, any bishop would accept me.
Usually, I accept being judged by my University Teachers in Exams. Please quote your credentials to judge me.
Good Year!

 

[Tietjen]

You want to show yourself as the hero and me as the villain.
Be it. You are the hero… A hero that I do not think cares too much about the OP but about yourself…You understood nothing of what I said.
Unfortunately, you forced me to do what I hate: to talk about myself. I will do it for the OP not for you. I will do for if I can help to avoid a divorce I will do the best in my life.
I have got 5 years of philosophy and 4 years of theology.
Above that I have got more 12 disciplines in Classics and Psychology and 11 years counseling. I work with UNESCO and some International Organizations that I avoid to tell.
I was not ordained priest for God did not want to, though it was what I wanted.
If I was not married and wanted to become a priest, with my studies, any bishop would accept me.
Usually, I accept being judged by my University Teachers in Exams. Please quote your credentials to judge me.
Good Year!

STOP! You are out of line and side tracking the thread.

 

[faithsmind]

This is my first post on CA. I feel I should step out and share my perspective on this thread. I also started a new group: support for separated women (see new groups) because it is a difficult and lonely road. I separated from my husband over a year ago. i left him pregnant, with 5 young children. He was abusive. This is a broad term, but he would throw things, punch walls, break tables. It was scary for all of us. I struggled with leaving. i was always in confusion, wondering what the honorable thing to do, was. We sought years and years of counseling, but it was a come-and-go thing that only had temp resolution. If you are in danger or he refuses commited, long-term counseling for himself and for you both together, I encourage separating, but only as a necessary boundary that you have been forced to set. But I warn you will never escape this man or the influence he has on your children together. When I left, my husband’s problems exploded: temper, addictions, everything compounded. I felt as if i had entered into direct confrontation with the devils that controlled him. It took a year of standing strong (with the help of God’s grace, YES! He will carry you) for him to hit rock bottom and finally admit that he had a problem and seek counseling for himself. Turns out he was sexually abused as a child. I am still standing strong as he goes through his counseling, and we navigate through these waters with the mediation of an objective priest (mainly to help set boundaries, goals, and visitations with the kids right now). My heart goes out to you. It is the lonliest place to be, especially in a community where there are so many thriving families around. I wore my large, intact Catholic family as a badge of accomplishment, and it was such a heartbreaking experience to see this identity dashed to pieces. God understands. God seeks you to put Him first. To let go of your children, let go of your hubs, let go of your identity. Cling to HIM! He is beautiful and He will give you and your children what you need. Hugs -Cara

 

[faithsmind]

One more thing…I see myself in all your posts, exiled. Don’t hesitate to message me. I know what you’re going through. I hope you give retrouvaille a try. I’ve never been, but hope to go through this “plan” eventually with my husband, too, God-willing.

 

[joanofarc2008]

You want to show yourself as the hero and me as the villain.
Be it. You are the hero… A hero that I do not think cares too much about the OP but about yourself…You understood nothing of what I said.
Unfortunately, you forced me to do what I hate: to talk about myself. I will do it for the OP not for you. I will do for if I can help to avoid a divorce I will do the best in my life.
I have got 5 years of philosophy and 4 years of theology.
Above that I have got more 12 disciplines in Classics and Psychology and 11 years counseling. I work with UNESCO and some International Organizations that I avoid to tell.
I was not ordained priest for God did not want to, though it was what I wanted.
If I was not married and wanted to become a priest, with my studies, any bishop would accept me.
Usually, I accept being judged by my University Teachers in Exams. Please quote your credentials to judge me.
Good Year!

I never judged you - I discerned the quality of advice that you are giving. Nor did I call you a villian. If you took it that way I will apologize but I really do believe you are missing many things here.

 

[rainbow1]

Has there been physical abuse in this family? Have there been marks documented and left on the children/wife? If not, then if a potential separation leads to divorce, which it very well could if the husband starts up an affair during the separation, then the children will have to leave their mom and spend lots of time with a man whom the mother has concerns about…the children would no longer have the mother by their side during much of their lives to guide them and shelter them…are there issues that truly make us concerned for the mother’s emotional wellbeing? If so, then we also have to understand the children would be left in that situation without their mother. And the children don’t have the same ability to protect themselves as an adult would. I don’t buy theories of kids being able to survive better and being more resilient than their adult mother…children are more vulnerable and have less coping skills than adults…and they suffer long term effects from divorce. If we are talking about separation, we are oftentimes talking about divorce also, because the husband could very likely go find comfort from another woman who would feel “sorry” he was supposedly “abandonned” by his wife, despite the fact that is not true.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Without saying too much someone from this thread did send me a message - I did send a message back but am having internet issues - if you did not get my reply I apologize - please message me back - God bless.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I never judged you - I discerned the quality of advice that you are giving. Nor did I call you a villian. If you took it that way I will apologize but I really do believe you are missing many things here.

You apologize and go on saying that I am missing thing without saying which things. It would be very, very hard for you to say which things. I shall put some questions: "In which psychological theories am I basing my views? What psychological strategies am I based on to suggest those 3 strategies? What is the character of the OP husband that made me conclude that? Is he a primary or secondary character? Is he an inductive or deductive person? Do you think there is something Asperger there? Why? If yes, what treatment is the best?
I put a stop on this. What matters is the well being of the OP and I will communicate with here by PM if she wishes.

If you want help to avoid that annulment of yours, I am ready to help you. I am from a terribly broken family and I know what it is and what you suffer as a child. As a Christian I am ready to help.

Preferably through PM.

GBY

 

[Lizzy21]

wow you sound just like me. i have the same issues with my SO, we are not married but we have 2 kids together and live together and have been for 6 years going on 7. He also has anger issues and issues with himself from his past. he wont let me help, ie going to confession and getting it all out. he thinks no one understands and thats where he is wrong, he doesnt understand the concept of forgiveness of our sins. I pray that one day he understands for his own good and for our children. He blames me that i dont and cant make him happy. i work, cook, clean, and take care of our kids. shouldnt that be enough? So all this makes me not even want to be intimate and he gets mad. I cant do that when our relationship is not right, you know. i dont know what to do either, sometimes we cant even be in the same room. I will pray for you and your family! hang in there.

 

[exiled]

I can’t tell you all how much I appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Every single one of you has helped me, either by helping me to see my husband another way, or myself another way. For the moment, in short, I have not spoken to him (aside from the most necessary communication) for five days. In fact, he’s done his same old overly-nice thing since the day after the last explosion, but I refuse to yield. Proof that I am right, IMO, lies in one incident that happened the night we returned home from visiting my family (where the most recent breakdown happened). Indeed, I needed his help with a computer issue, but after three days of over-doing the nice thing, as soon as I needed help he folded his arms and said some smart alec thing like, “oh, now you talk to me”. Clearly, he just wants me subordinate again, and I won’t do it.
I told him that he must speak to Fr._________, because he is a very holy priest in this area that gives spiritual direction and moves many people. Until then, we are merely in the same house. After a day or so he did ask for the priest’s number, but as far as I know he hasn’t called. We’ll see.
Thanks to every one of you!

 

[rainbow1]

You apologize and go on saying that I am missing thing without saying which things. It would be very, very hard for you to say which things. I shall put some questions: "In which psychological theories am I basing my views? What psychological strategies am I based on to suggest those 3 strategies? What is the character of the OP husband that made me conclude that? Is he a primary or secondary character? Is he an inductive or deductive person? Do you think there is something Asperger there? Why? If yes, what treatment is the best?
I put a stop on this. What matters is the well being of the OP and I will communicate with here by PM if she wishes.

If you want help to avoid that annulment of yours, I am ready to help you. I am from a terribly broken family and I know what it is and what you suffer as a child. As a Christian I am ready to help.

Preferably through PM.

GBY

Lots of the people on Catholic Answer forum have counseling degrees or theology degrees, but ethically no one in that category can “treat” our Christian friends here because the OPs’ entire situations are not known and they aren’t clients. We can offer some hopeful suggestions to one another, pray for each other, and nurture one another with kindness and respect…

 

[joanofarc2008]

Lots of the people on Catholic Answer forum have counseling degrees or theology degrees, but ethically no one in that category can “treat” our Christian friends here because the OPs’ entire situations are not known and they aren’t clients. We can offer some hopeful suggestions to one another, pray for each other, and nurture one another with kindness and respect…

Thank you. The uncharitable and unethical response has been reported. While many of us may offer advice based on our own experience offering psychological counseling and advice is akin IMO to offering medical advice which is in violation of forum rules. I know that it is also considered unethical to do many of these things outside of an undeveloped counseling relationship.

As far as my own situation. I will comment on this as I believe this comment was made from a different cultural awareness. Canon law states that one cannot seek a decree of nullity until the marriage has been irretrievably broken down. In the US the marker of this is usually that the civil divorce proceedings have been completed. Some dioceses even go as far as to require a waiting time after this before one can file. In a case like mine where the separation occurred due to domestic violence including attempts on my own life I consider it extremely uncharitable to make the assumption that one has not a good reason for seeking separation, divorce, or decree of nullity or that one has not had proper pastoral counsel prior to making those decisions. The OP in this case has. I have. Women that leave are not necessarily degrading the Sacrament of Matrimony. Sometimes by leaving these types of marriages the women are upholding the Sacrament by saying that this is not it. I refer back to the statement by the USCCB.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Lots of the people on Catholic Answer forum have counseling degrees or theology degrees, but ethically no one in that category can “treat” our Christian friends here because the OPs’ entire situations are not known and they aren’t clients. We can offer some hopeful suggestions to one another, pray for each other, and nurture one another with kindness and respect…

I mention my degrees for reasons you seem not to understand.
I did not ask your opinion about my opinion and I do not accept yours about mine.
I am not treating anybody. When I treat, I get paid.
You are implying things out of the blue about me that I completely reject.
For the same reasons I could attack all your

some hopeful suggestions to one another, pray for each other, and nurture one another with kindness and respect…

I am not here to talk to you but to the OP.
As I said, I stop my participation in this thread and only PM to whom wants to talk to me NOT TO THOSE who do not want to talk to me.
Do not insult me calling me an un-ethic person without showing how.
You like to argue do you? Period.
My last post to you.