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PatK63
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Scripture does not contain all that is true. The end of the gospel of John actually says that. Mary had no birth pain when Jesus was born!
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umamibella
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Where in Scripture or in Vatican documents does it say Mary had an absolutely painless virgin birth or that it did not make her uncomfortable in any way.
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PatK63
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It is not in scripture. The church teaches that Mary is ever virgin before and after the birth of Jesus. That means Jesus’s birth was not normal. Think about it!
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umamibella
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No it means nothing of the sort, It means Mary gave birth a virgin. There is no official ststement about how Jesus was born.
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PatK63
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I think you better study it more. The dogmas on Mary are poorly understood IMO. I have said all I will say on the subject.
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umamibella
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There is nothing in the dogma of Mary being a virgin that states how she experienced childbirth. Please stop confusing Catholics with this.
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Torolf
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Mary giving birth without birthing pains is a long standing teaching of the Church going back to the Church Fathers and continuing in both the East and West. Here is a link to an article from Tim Staples that goes into detail on the subject. Was Mary Free from Labor Pain? | Catholic Answers
Getting back to the topic of the Chosen series. Dallas Jenkins the creator of The Chosen did an interview a while back and addressed that scene from the Nativity episode and acknowledged how the way they showed it could be upsetting to Catholics and stated that he wished they’d done things differently knowing what he does now.
Getting back to the topic of the Chosen series. Dallas Jenkins the creator of The Chosen did an interview a while back and addressed that scene from the Nativity episode and acknowledged how the way they showed it could be upsetting to Catholics and stated that he wished they’d done things differently knowing what he does now.
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MNathaniel
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@PatK63 and @Torolf are right about this. Catholic teaching about the virginity of Mary is relevant not only to the virginal conception of Jesus but also to the virgin birth.PatK63:
There is nothing in the dogma of Mary being a virgin that states how she experienced childbirth. Please stop confusing Catholics with this.
I’m sorry to hear (but not surprised to hear) that a TV show portrayed this in a way inconsistent with Catholic teaching. There’s only so much you can expect from a Protestant production, unfortunately (though they do so many things well).
Wish these types of productions had (or took seriously) Catholic theologian counsel on-set.
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umamibella
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its not magisterium teaching either way and that is what counts. The Christmas special shows nothing in that scene that states Mary is not a virgin.
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PatK63
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The real question is: was Mary conceived without original sin? There is dogma that says that she was. Therefore she was free from the pain of childbirth which is an enumerated consequence of original sin in the Bible. Ergo Mary gave birth without pain and remained a Virgin. All part of God’s plan that His son would take flesh that was not contaminated with sin!
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umamibella
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She pretty obviously was, that is not in dispute in the series.
Have you read that particular Bible passage?
"To the woman He said: “I will sharply increase your pain in childbirth; in pain you will bring forth children. You will desire your husband, and he will rule over you.”
Increase does not equal free of pain or discomfort prior to original sin.
This makes your argument invalid
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PatK63
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Which version of the Bible have you quoted from?
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umamibella
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We would have to go back to the original version of the Old Testament wouldnt we because it is Genesis, and a result of Adam and Eve disobeying God. Increase means just that, increase, what is the Old Testament original version.
Ever given birth? I have, it is the most intense pain we know. I can imagine the increase . I am sure all mothers can.
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debgab
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I watched the first season. The takeaway I got was how much common humanity is given the characters in the bible. I think we can read and not read “into” that part. It gives a believable and brings it down to such a personal level. It’s good to bring this to the audience because it still tells the story accurately and believable. It puts a much more reachable “face” on the bible. It did this for me. And I also am looking forward to the 2nd series.
I’ll add that I was concerned with accuracy too, but in case it already hasn’t been mentioned, the creator of the series, Dallas Jenkins, consults, with 3 authorities from and envangelical theologian, a catholic priest (think Jesuit) and a Rabbi. He has a video of a discussion with the three to gauge each one’s response to the material he’s about to produce.
So, that’s my opinon on it
Debbie
I’ll add that I was concerned with accuracy too, but in case it already hasn’t been mentioned, the creator of the series, Dallas Jenkins, consults, with 3 authorities from and envangelical theologian, a catholic priest (think Jesuit) and a Rabbi. He has a video of a discussion with the three to gauge each one’s response to the material he’s about to produce.
So, that’s my opinon on it
Debbie
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MaryTeri
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I have the DVD and there is a bonus disc. In it the producer has a round table with a priest, a a minister, and a rabbi (messianic ) They have interesting talks about what is right and wrong. It is not the Bible acted out but the man really put a lot of thought into what he wrote.
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PatK63
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I read a version that said there would be pain in childbirth. You maintain Mary had pain delivering Jesus? Where did that pain come from? Since Mary maintained her virginity does it follow that Jesus was taken from the womb and did not get delivered through the birth canal? We don’t know but whatever theory you put forth has to line up with all the known facts.
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umamibella
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Best you re read what I maintain.
Did you read the Old Testament original version in its original language?
We do not know how Jesus was born, He was born into this world. Thats a fact. We should not be even thinking about how Jesus was born because that is a very personal. It is a question I would never ask Mary, would you ? I am sure it says in Scripture that Jesus was born into this world.
It does , Jesus says so Himself in John.
“Then You are a king!” Pilate said. “You say that I am a king,” Jesus answered. “For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice.
I am not about to argue with Jesus about being born into this world.
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PatK63
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Well, Jesus was born of a Virgin who was conceived without sin. The question was: did Mary have birth pain when Jesus was born? I think I have supplied ample evidence that she did not. The most important fact is that God took on human flesh and become man!
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umamibella
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That is not a question I would ask Mary and it is not a question I am concerned with. Depicting discomfort and pain is a typically human condition. It is not against any of the Marian Dogma or against Catholic teaching.
There is no evidence either way , so you cannot have supplied any. If the series the Chosen brings Christ to people it is entirely a good thing. The actor who played Jesus is himself Catholic and in his interviews has a huge painting of the Divine Mercy Jesus behind him. How can this be bad?
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PatK63
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Which session of the Chosen did you like the best?
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