Serious catechesis - what is it?

[ontheway1]

The theme of serious catachesis pops up frequently in CAF forum posts. Most people feel that we need more catachesis or that the church has abandoned its role of providing the faithful with guidance. What is this thing that is called “serious catachesis”? Is it available anywhere? Is anyone here engaged in such programs?

 

[po18guy]

It is not merely a program, but also a process. Instilling Church teaching into the faithful. What it is, is the content of the catechism. For example, this thread cites the problem:

Pew Survey: Only half of Catholics know teaching on Eucharist Liturgy and Sacraments

Well, this isn’t good. https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-a...get-church-teaching-on-communion-study-finds/

Compare this with the teaching of the Church as recorded by Saint Paul in 1 Corinthians 11 (“Abuses at the Lord’s Supper”), and the situation cries out for correction.

 

[ontheway1]

I agree that it has to be more than just another program. To rephrase my original question: is the church undertaking initiatives aimed at teaching the faithful? Many have identified the problem but I am wondering if solutions are being offered anywhere.

 

[fide]

Jesus offered a solution, but it seems to be more expensive than many want to pay.

 

[ontheway1]

Last Sunday the faithful of my parish contributed over $35,000 to the parish offertory. This is still not enough?

 

[Nihilo]

The theme of serious catachesis pops up frequently in CAF forum posts. Most people feel that we need more catachesis or that the church has abandoned its role of providing the faithful with guidance. What is this thing that is called “serious catachesis”? Is it available anywhere? Is anyone here engaged in such programs?

I agree that the ‘Catechism’ is the authoritative and authentically authorized source of the catechesis.

While I agree that “something should be done” wrt catechesis, by our pastors (our authentic teachers /catechists), I’m not convinced that they’re not all already doing it.

The Church published the ‘Catechism’ over 20 years ago now (tyvm St. John Paul!), and this is the first time in her history where everything that is known to have been taught by the Apostles in all matters of faith and morals is widely and easily distributed to us all.

It's even readily available for free with an internet connection, a mass market edition around 10 bucks new, and that can be had for five dollars or less used.

Study the thing. Use the index and familiarize yourself with the teachings. Dwell on things, ruminate, ponder, etc. Know it, investigate deeply those things that interest you naturally, or that come about in your various conversations with others, both Catholics and Protestants, and with everybody else too.

And my personal advice is to always keep in mind that the Lord Jesus is risen from the dead. The ‘Catechism’ calls His Resurrection both “central” and “crowning.” In a way the faith therefore spans outward from His Resurrection, and is also ‘topped off’ with His Resurrection; it is both and ‘alpha’ and ‘omega,’ the beginning and end of our faith.

Every Mass at His command, our faithful authentic pastors preside over our constant memory that He is risen from the dead. Believing in His Resurrection is explicitly mentioned by St. Paul in Romans 10:9.

fwiw.

 

[OddBird]

I’d argue that serious catechesis is about more than the content of the Catechism. It does include it, but I think it goes even farther than that. Catechesis derives from a Greek verb which means “to resonate”. In a way, catechesis is about letting Christ’s life, death and resurrection resonate with one’s own life so much that it becomes an echo of Christ’s. This is why it also includes the intellectual aspects of faith, because it is difficult to live out what one doesn’t understand. But from what I see around me, that takes a serious commitment, and a willingness to see one’s life thrown upside down by the Holy Spirit, and this can indeed be a high price to pay.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I had a mother who was raised Catholic in the 1930s and I’d say that took care of about 80 percent of the catechesis right there.

 

[adgloriam]

I had a mother who was raised Catholic in the 1930s and I’d say that took care of about 80 percent of the catechesis right there.

The US had exceptionally high literacy when compared to the rest of the world in the 30’s.

I’m of the opinion that in modern times the literacy problem precedes the catechesis problem, because attacks against the faith have become more sophisticated and frequent in media, and media more prevalent.

But I would say, that from the 90’s onward the literacy problem has been solved in most of the world (and internet also contributes massively). So what does remain, today, is the difficulty of the “new evangelization” that is indeed, the mission at hand.

The Church published the ‘Catechism’ over 20 years ago now (tyvm St. John Paul!)

Saint pope JPII had an incredibly far reaching vision, looking indeed into the future.

 

[adgloriam]

Last Sunday the faithful of my parish contributed over $35,000 to the parish offertory. This is still not enough?

No. The quality of the catechists is social. Meaning, the catechists are chosen (and tacitly approved) at a parish level, by their peers, by the community. Normally the choice is for ladies who have children in that age group. Regardless if they have any knowledge of the matter (it’s a social vote of trust). Also, to avoid any tension or backlash from the community at large, that probably sends their children to catechesis more by tradition than conviction, and frequently by exigence and insistence of the grandparents more than of the parents.

I tried organizing lectures bringing together priests and the aforementioned lady/mother catechists. All were in agreement, and actually eager for it, because the priests rarely get an audience to lecture on theology and philosophy, and because the catechists had never had such classes, finding themselves sincerely unqualified (full of questions and very devoid of answers) for the demands of the functions they had assumed.

So it’s not a question of money. It’s a matter of union in the community, of mutual understanding, organization, communication, and articulation of talents. I’m also opposed to the idea of having a catechesis being taught by a single person, there should be some rotation in the speakers to introduce diversity of testimony and style.

 

[ontheway1]

There are some concrete ideas in your reply. I am particularly interested in your attempts at organizing lectures at your church. I would love to hear about the mechanics and the results, if you could share.

 

[adgloriam]

in your attempts at organizing lectures at your church

Well, the first step was me catechizing the catechists - who, it should be said: didn’t own catechisms neither were they aware catechisms existed. (I’m afraid to say: such state of affairs is more common than might seem.) The average long-term CAF’er is more qualified in doctrine than the majority of catechists. (Again, in truth, I learned things on CAF I can’t imagine where else an average layman could become aware of.)

Neither had the catechists read scripture: so I told them they should root their lessons beforehand in their own “lectio divina” and they shouldn’t be afraid of reading assorted passages with the kids.

Lastly, I stressed they should tell the kids to go on youtube (and show them) how to research doctrinal keywords and select vids with priests giving lectures.

---

I am particularly interested in your attempts at organizing lectures at your church.

I can answer this in private at a latter time.

 

[Dan_Defender]

the catechists - who, it should be said: didn’t own catechisms neither were they aware catechisms existed.

Unfortunately this is a relatively common occurrence.

Neither had the catechists read scripture:

This is shocking and I hope it is rare.

 

[adgloriam]

adgloriam:

Neither had the catechists read scripture:

This is shocking and I hope it is rare.

Depends on the country you are from for the most part. Be reminded that pre-V2 mass was said in latin. The idea of owning a bible and reading it is somewhat strange in a country where the majority of the population is either illiterate or has only grade school. Reading the bible is also a habit gained through influence, the better part of the catholic world was based on going to mass and praying, not reading…

 

[Dan_Defender]

Well here in Canada that may be true for common parishioners but most catechists know their New Testament at least, I hope. I have not seen evidence to the contrary yet.

 

[adgloriam]

Well here in Canada that may be true for common parishioners but most catechists know their New Testament at least, I hope. I have not seen evidence to the contrary yet.

As I said about the US, historically Canada would have been ahead of other countries in terms of literacy. Not only that, but being in a society with a significant protestant presence actually prompts, historically, more bible study on part of Catholic laity since protestants being “sola scriptura” rely more on reading scripture outside of the religious service. You’ll notice they also evangelize pro-actively (normally through reading of scripture), whereas Catholics are more passive in that respect and being Catholic was mostly cultural and family heritage.

If I’m not mistaken, going to Sunday mass alone over 3 years will have you listen to around 80% of the NT. Which tends to “sink in” after enough years, and if you’re assisting to mass with the right disposition of paying attention and meditating/memorizing the readings. I knew the better part of the NT by heart the first time I started reading the Gospels…

I hope

You might be wrong. And, as I see it, Catchesis should also be a school of clear-cut concepts so that a teenager reaches 18yo with a competent philosophical baggage.

 

[ontheway1]

It is the case that most people did not read the Bible pre-V2. The mass was said in Latin but somehow most people had no difficulty distingiushing right from wrong. You just knew when you sinned.
Now, that we are all reading the Bible, there is confusion. And many people have no concept of sin.
Something went wrong somewhere and reading the Bible doesn’t seem to be helping.

 

[adgloriam]

most people had no difficulty distingiushing right from wrong

They did.

The costumes were in general more sain. Society was more traditional, reigning values didn’t exalt hedonism like in modernity (although reexamining this you could go “Henry Miller”, “belle époque”, “Casanova” - it’s erroneous to think humanity was “Victorian”, the “wild west” is one counter-example).

In the Canadian case, politicians in the French speaking part were overwhelmingly catholic and thus what we equate as family culture was written into law with abortion and divorce being illegal. However, that didn’t stop the form genocide that happened in the “Canadian Indian residential school system” (coincidentally some of those institutions were catholic run.)

So we’d have to rethink sanctity, and our “historical perception” thereof.

(The folks at “Salem” were keen on reading the bible, that didn’t stop the “witch hunts” nor the torture by inquisitors.)

 

[ontheway1]

Interesting point of view, but allow me to unpack a little, starting with the Canadian genocide. My understanding is that is was called “cultural genocide”, as in not allowing these children to grow up in their own culture. That is an emotionally charged politically correct accusation. That’s also a lot different than genocide. I don’t know if the death statistic among these childrend (6,000 per 150,000 total population) are far above the average death rate among children in Canada at that time.

Regarding the Victorian era and the belle epoque references, only people who base their knowledge of the past on hollywood productions would consider that a reflection of society of the xix th century. Relality was a lot more grim for 95% (or more) of the general population. Bible had little or nothing to do with it.
Finally referencing the inquisitions in two words adds nothing to this discussion.
Overall, there was no ideal society at any time in the past. But now, we are so much more literate, more highly educated and so much more affluent, that we should know better. But maybe these are the reasons why we don’t?

 

[Justin_Mary]

What is this thing that is called “serious catachesis”? Is it available anywhere? Is anyone here engaged in such programs?

I’m preparing to join the Carmelite Third Order for just this reason.