Seriously considering becoming Orthodox

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I’m at a point where I’m seriously considering going over to the Orthodox Church. As you may know, I already made a post about the strong pull I feel towards Orthodoxy a few months ago. My studies of the early Church have led me to grasp a much fuller understanding of how the Church’s ecclesiology developed from the 1st to 3rd century. I’m going to see if I can visit one of my local Orthodox churches in the area within the next few weeks. Make no mistake, I have not come to the full decision yet. God bless you all.
 
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I’m at a point where I’m seriously considering going over to the Orthodox Church. As you may know, I already made a post about the strong pull I feel towards Orthodoxy a few months ago. My studies of the early Church have led me to grasp a much fuller understanding of how the Church’s ecclesiology developed from the 1st to 3rd century. I’m going to see if I can visit one of my local Orthodox churches in the area within the next few weeks. Make no mistake, I have not come to the full decision yet. God bless you all.
You list yourself as Catholic. You can join an Eastern Catholic parish rather than go out of communion with the Catholic Church.
 
What are they if I may ask?

Be careful of committing the sin of schism. Leaving God’s church is a sin that damns the soul to hell.
 
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I will be following this. I am a devout Catholic, and I have defended the Catholic faith numerous times. I even taught catechism. Not to brag, but I would say that I have a firm grasp on the teachings of the Church. However, I too, have recently been attracted to the Orthodox faith. I have considered joining an Eastern Catholic Church but my reasons also go beyond the liturgy and spirituality as well.
 
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It’s also beyond certain doctrinal traditions like different views on purgatory. My reasons are about the papacy primarily.
 
Which Orthodox? They are not completely united. They differ on the number of councils to accept and they are very geo-centered. And, what’s wrong with Chaldean Catholic? Or Maronite?

You should call Fr. Mitch Pacwa and have a chat with him.
 
It’s also beyond certain doctrinal traditions like different views on purgatory. My reasons are about the papacy primarily.
So you said reasons, does that imply that you already dissent from the dogmas of faith as taught by the Catholic Church?
 
You mentioned the papacy. Is it because you view the papacy as not having the direct succession as it claims? Or because the current state of affairs that seem to be plaguing this regime? Meaning the ambiguity and lack of clarity on where the papacy is leading the Church?
 
Please…Orthodox person can say the same…God is one
Both can say it. It means one should stay put because there is a state of invincible ignorance (assumed). If one assents at one time and then dissents later it is another matter, not of invincible ignorance. Church direction is that Catholics are not to proselytize the Orthodox.
 
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Except that he is a catholic. So he is actually leaving the church to join another body that is separated from her.
 
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As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I am of course delighted that you are considering Orthodoxy. I want to make a few notes and give you a few pieces of advice on this matter-

First, take your time. I know a number of people who have become Orthodox after having been Catholic (and Catholic after having been Orthodox) who are continually switching back and forth, “tossed about by every wind of doctrine.” This is not a spiritually healthy state. I don’t know your personal history, so I’m not implying that the following accurately describes your journey, but if you have a history of frequently changing your mind on key Christian doctrines or altering your confessional state, be particularly attuned to taking your time.
  1. Read the best books from both sides. It is my view that most popular Catholic and Orthodox apologetics is of very low historical quality. Both make grand, sweeping claims which will always evaporate upon closer examination. I do think that careful and judicious historical study will vindicate the Orthodox teaching, but it will not vindicate certain representations of the Orthodox teaching which are not actually historically representative of Orthodoxy. For example, the claim that the first millennium only saw the pope having a ceremonial primacy is easy to rebut, both from Eastern and Western church history. Indeed, “primacy of honor” has historically implied jurisdiction, not stood as an alternative to it. Such was also the position of the best medieval Byzantine theologians such as Symeon of Thessaloniki and Mark of Ephesus.
  2. Keep your eyes focused on the issues that have historically mattered. It has become unfortunately common on the Internet to see claims such as “Catholicism and Protestantism are two sides of the same coin” and “we don’t share very much with Catholic doctrine.” This is not only false, but it is not the traditional position of the church. The greatest Orthodox theologians of the 20th century, such as Georges Florovsky and Dumitru Staniloae, while noting important differences with Catholic teaching, also emphasized the vast amount of agreement. St. Gennadius Scholarios of Constantinople, who was one of the principal critics of the Council of Florence, translated the works of Thomas Aquinas into Greek and introduced them by stating that he was one of the greatest Christian theologians, and that the two major areas of disagreement between him and Orthodoxy was “the procession of the Holy Spirit and the distinction between essence and energies.”
 
  1. In no particular order, the books I would recommend to you: Edward Denny’s “Papalism”, an early 20th century Anglican work on the Papacy which is the most comprehensive treatment of Roman Catholic historical claims of which I am aware. It is quite polemical and I don’t agree with everything in it, but it is the most detailed argumentative work on this subject. Second, Edward Siecenski’s “The Papacy and the Orthodox.” Siecenski did his dissertation on the procession of the Spirit in the writings of St. Maximus the Confessor, and as a result, he left Catholicism to become Orthodox. Nevertheless, he genuinely desires union between East and West and is a very careful scholar. Third, Papadakis’ “Crisis in Byzantium” and “The Christian East and the Rise of the Papacy.” Papadakis is an Orthodox historian and writes from an Orthodox point of view, but he is very knowledgeable. The former book deals with the Orthodox theological response to II Lyons and articulates the Orthodox teaching on the procession of the Spirit through the Son- he emphasizes that the relationship between the Spirit and Son is eternal, but it is a relation which belongs to the energies, not the essence. This is the doctrine of an “eternal manifestation” or “energetic procession.” Given that the Filioque was (correctly, I think) considered the most important doctrinal difference between East and West, this is an excellent and crucial work. The second book deals with the development of the schism from the eleventh to fifteenth centuries, especially in regards to the papal reform movement of the High Middle Ages. There are other books I would recommend, but those are the most important. A couple popular books I would avoid are the writings of Michael Whelton, who has produced some useful material but massively overexaggerates the differences between East and West and has no place for any real papal primacy. And then I might avoid Clark Carlton’s book on Roman Catholicism, which suffers from the same problems to a lesser degree
  2. Pray, pray, pray. St. John Maximovitch is perhaps the greatest saint of the 20th century and has been known to help Catholics inquiring into Orthodoxy because of his great love of the Western saints of the first millennium. Pray to him in particular.
You will be in my prayers- and feel free to get in touch with me if you wish to discuss these issues further. The best way to get in touch is to add me on Facebook:

 
One key point which I forgot to mention: don’t become Orthodox because you are frustrated with the disorganized and unclear state of contemporary Roman Catholicism, particularly the irreverent way the Novus Ordo Mass is often celebrated. You’ll find your fair share of political chaos in Orthodoxy as well, and while it isn’t as stark, there are liturgical abuses too.

To those above who claim that Orthodoxy is not sufficiently united, I think this is a bit naive. First, the sorts of problems and semi-schisms that happen in the Orthodox communion also happened in the ancient church. Various conflicts between local churches who severed communion with one another (but not with the other churches with which they both were in communion) were not uncommon- see, for example, the Meletian schism. Second, the problem of overlapping jurisdictions in American Orthodoxy (i.e. having both a Greek and Russian bishop in the same territory) exists in Roman Catholicism as well. Eastern Catholics have their own episcopal hierarchy which covers the same territory as the Latin hierarchy. There are three men who hold the position of “patriarch of Antioch.” The difference for Roman Catholics is that Roman Catholic canon law has normalized this situation, while Orthodox (while being quite lazy in seeking to resolve it) continue to affirm that this is an abnormal and uncanonical state of affairs.

If one speaks of doctrinal unity, it seems to me that Rome doesn’t have a leg up on Orthodoxy here, either. After all, most Catholics in the United States think that birth control is legitimate. There are many, many Catholic theologians and biblical scholars who teach very heterodox positions on Catholic doctrine- consider as an example Hebrew Bible scholar Mark Smith, who, while claiming to be Catholic, believes that Yahweh was originally a minor storm god on the early Israelite pantheon! Such cannot be reconciled with historical Catholic teaching, but he continues, with no official action. I bring these up not to rag on Rome and claim that there aren’t Orthodox scholars who do the same thing (there are) but to state that the situation vis-a-vis doctrinal unity is basically the same. Just because you can claim that the pope states the official position doesn’t mean you have unity. It just means that there is technically an official position, if a Catholic affirms Catholic teaching on the papacy.

Ultimately, these sorts of claims from both sides are an illegitimate attempt at a shortcut. The only way to sort through these issues is prayer and hard historical and theological legwork.

I think it’s a bit condescending to assume that the only reason one might become Orthodox has to do with one’s love for the Byzantine liturgy. This is a stereotype, but it’s not as common as you might think. I love both the Byzantine liturgy and the traditional Latin Mass. I’m Orthodox because of theology and doctrine, not smells and bells.
 
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