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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Thank you for that very important clarification! That is my understanding as well.
The pro-life ob/gyn I met years ago made a very interesting point regarding abortions to save the life of the mother. She pointed out that once the unborn is “viable”, meaning able to survive outside the womb (and with modern medical technololgy that point in time keeps getting earlier in the pregnancy), there would be no need to abort the child to save the mother.
Delivery, rather than abortion, would be the treatment.
Think about that especially with late term and partial birth abortions. In a partial birth abortion, the child is delivered all the way out except for its head, and then the child is killed. What possible situation would require that other than to end the life of the child?
Anyway, thank your for your clarification…it is important!
God bless all!!!
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Yes He is, and in less than a week, in answer to prayer, He provided $400.00 worth of statistics for our little conversation here at no charge.Be interested in seeing them, God is SOOOOO good.
By Federal DRG codes:
770-Abortion w D&C, aspiration curettage or hysterotomy
779-Abortion w/o D&C
Here are the results:
2006
Washington Adventist Hospital
770 = 22
779 = 25
Total procedures = 47
Total income from procedures = $259,760
**Shady Grove Adventist Hospital **
770 = 18
779 = 18
Total procedures = 36
Total income from procedures = $175,486
Mercy Medical Center
770 = 7
779 = 8
Total procedures = 15
Total income from procedures = $67,531
Greater Baltimore Medical Center
770 = 8
779 = 3
Total procedures = 11
Total income from procedures = $47,992
2007
Washington Adventist Hospital
770 = 19
779 = 29
Total procedures = 48
Total income from procedures = $230,328
**Shady Grove Adventist Hospital **
770 = 11
779 = 20
Total procedures = 31
Total income from procedures = $171,766
Mercy Medical Center
770 = 5
779 = 7
Total procedures = 12
Total income from procedures = $108,499
Greater Baltimore Medical Center
770 = 13
779 = 13
Total procedures = 26
Total income from procedures = $114,018
First I would like to praise God that the numbers are way way way down for the 2 SDA hospitals. I, along with the other elders of my church, prayed for this roughly 15 years ago…and now I can see an anwser to many prayers!!! Praise God!! I am sooooooooooo happy to see this drastic decrease!!!
Second, this is by no means a scientific study, merely a snapshot in time, but it is so very encouraging.
Third, as both my wife and Maria1212 pointed out, what do these codes refer to as far as procedures performed for miscarriages, spontaneous abortions, etc.? I do not know the answer to that, but it would appear from the consistently low numbers among the four hospitals, that quite likely, that could be what these numbers reflect…I just don’t know for sure.
Fourth, I plan to find out what these numbers mean for the Catholic hospital, and exactly what the policy is at Mercy. The last I heard was that abortion was against the policy of that hospital.
It is my hope that the consistently low numbers among the hospitals reveal procedures other than termination procedures. And if that is the case then these 2 SDA hospitals, it would appear, have adopted either a pro-life policy, or a better pro-life policy. It could also reveal that procedures are happening in the Catholic hospital that shouldn’t be.
I will check into the Catholic hospital. I have no say in the SDA hospitals any more…that will be up to the SDAs.
But mannnnnnnn, I am so happy to see that decrease.
God provides!!
God bless all!!!
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Sabbath_Keeper
Guest
Thank you Pat, I am so glad there is someone out there willing to take the step to ground out the facts instead of consistantly expounding upon what others present without supportive documentation. Your willingness to do so actual, for me, validates you desires to “be more like” Christ in this matter. Please continue in your research and may God be with you in your book endevour.
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djconklin
Guest
Thanks very much Monica for your positive response!
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
You’re welcome SabbathKeeper! And thank you for both your prayers and the “inspiration” to maintain a factual dialog!
I cannot begin to tell you how much we prayed for those two hospitals, and I cannot tell you how happy I am to see that reduction in numbers…by the hundreds…Praise God!!!
Life and the sanctity of life is so very important, especially in a day and age where it isn’t considered so important by many…both non-believers and believers. It has amazed me since 9/11 and up to this point, the intensity with which many Christians have embraced a, for lack of better term, “war frenzy”. If they only realized the damage that has been done to Christianity in the middle east, perhaps they wouldn’t be so quick to war. And I’m not talking about the right to defend yourself or you country from attack, but to just step back and look at the damage to innocent life. And not just in Iraq and middle east but all over the world where violence and death is embraced as the way to “resolve” problems. We as Christians must promote and defend the sanctity of life…because if we don’t…who will?
And while I am so very happy to see the numbers of abortions down for those two SDA hospitals, I still see the SDA church position on abortion as being other than pro-life. And only God knows what is going on in other SDA hospitals. I would love to see the SDA church adopt a pro-life stand…but that is no longer my business. But you all are in my prayers in this and other issues! God bless those pro-life SDAs who take up and continue the battle.
It is a fascinating phenomenon to seek out the facts and the truth about things. When the facts support your beliefs it is gloriously wonderful. When they don’t, it can be a painful experience.
I’ve been seeking facts and truth since I was in my teens. At times the discovery of facts and truth which were totally alien to my way of thinking and belief caused much pain and suffering. Fortunately, we follow a God who is intimately familiar with pain and suffering. So much so that when on the cross he felt rejected by heaven and earth, he cried out “My God my God, why have you forsaken me”…such extreme anguish we may never know. And yet at times we all feel alone and forsaken, even as Christians. And just like Jesus, with a love that was more concerned about us than himself, he endured that forsakeness and went past that point because of his love for us, to resurrection and life! And we are called to love each other as he loved us…quite a calling indeed. And by his grace and through much prayer, let’s strive to love each other as he loved us!
And know that the sincere prayer of faith, and the love and mercy and grace of God, will lead us through our ignorance and suffering, to the facts, with the faith to accept those facts even when they are contrary to our currently held beliefs, and to The Truth and The Love which leads to eternal life.
God bless all!!!
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Maria1212
Guest
Hi Patrick,
I have been offline for awhile so am catching back up. Thank you for taking the time to post the statistics. What wonderful news. And I thought your post above was beautiful.
Sincerely,
Maria1212
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adelore
Guest
As long as this topic is about Abortion, may I also bring up a topic of a “kind of Abortion” that many Prodesent Churchs don’t seem to realize is indeed an Abortion. (or can be if an egg is indeed fertilized.)
The Birth Control Pill. The Birth Control Pill indeed will cause an abortion of a fertilized egg.
It’s medical/Science Proof that when the two cells join together, thus we have the begining of a new life. (think not?) Then why are there so many Clinics around the world doing just that?
Joining two cells together and then placing them in the womb of a woman so that it may grow and in about 9 months be born a baby?
Back to the Birth Control Pill… The Pill causes the Womb to have a thicking in it’s wall thus to keep the fertilized egg (which by the way once the sperm fertilizes the egg it continues to form into more cells, the normal process of any pregency.) from implanting it’s self to the wall of the womb. The end result? The baby in very early stages is then not allowed to continue to grow in the Mother, thus causing an aboration because of the Pill.
If you have any doubts about this and you are taking the Birth Control Pill then read that paperwork with your Pills and look it up on the internet.
The Birth Contol Pill does Not stop you from getting Pregnant, it only stops the Baby from being allowed to grow in your womb as the walls thicken in an abnormal way keeping this from happening, thus the baby is aborted when the woman has her menstral cycle. (a woman won’t have her normal monthly cycle if a baby is allowed to implant its self in the womb. The Birth Control Pill stops this from happening, thus causing the baby at a very early stage to be aborted.)
The Birth Control Pill. The Birth Control Pill indeed will cause an abortion of a fertilized egg.
It’s medical/Science Proof that when the two cells join together, thus we have the begining of a new life. (think not?) Then why are there so many Clinics around the world doing just that?
Joining two cells together and then placing them in the womb of a woman so that it may grow and in about 9 months be born a baby?
Back to the Birth Control Pill… The Pill causes the Womb to have a thicking in it’s wall thus to keep the fertilized egg (which by the way once the sperm fertilizes the egg it continues to form into more cells, the normal process of any pregency.) from implanting it’s self to the wall of the womb. The end result? The baby in very early stages is then not allowed to continue to grow in the Mother, thus causing an aboration because of the Pill.
If you have any doubts about this and you are taking the Birth Control Pill then read that paperwork with your Pills and look it up on the internet.
The Birth Contol Pill does Not stop you from getting Pregnant, it only stops the Baby from being allowed to grow in your womb as the walls thicken in an abnormal way keeping this from happening, thus the baby is aborted when the woman has her menstral cycle. (a woman won’t have her normal monthly cycle if a baby is allowed to implant its self in the womb. The Birth Control Pill stops this from happening, thus causing the baby at a very early stage to be aborted.)
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system
Guest
Patrick,
I read most of your comments dealing with abortion statistics and I am impressed with your commitment to the pro-life cause and your willingness to be faithful to what the Bible teaches about the sanctity of human life. I am a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church which I joined by baptism over six decades ago. The church I joined was pro-life like the original pioneers who founded my denomination. James White, Ellen White, John H. Kellogg, and many others were definitely pro-life and were not afraid to label the practice of abortion as murder and a violation of the Sixth Commandment of the Decalogue.
Unfortunately, the leaders of my church compromised on this moral issue back in 1970 when the State of Hawaii legalized the practice of abortion. When I learned that five of our Adventist hospitals were offering elective abortions to their patients, I was greatly disappointed, and decided to do something about this. I was very naïve and thought that the church would grant me the privilege of speaking on behalf of the unborn. I was wrong. Every attempt I made to do this was either ignored, rejected or both. This forced me to create several websites. I still have two of them: “letsfocusonlife.com,” and “Advent Life Center” at Facebook.
It also led me to sign up for a Ph.D. program in religion; and my doctoral thesis, which I have online, dealt precisely with the dramatic change in attitude towards abortion by my church. I was on the verge of publishing said dissertation, but I lacked recent abortion statistics. I did talk to Ted Wilson, the new president of the Adventist Church and asked for help. He advised me to contact Dr. Allan Handysides at the General Conference of my church. I did so six weeks ago, and I am still waiting. I also contacted our Washington Adventist Hospital and several Loma Linda University ethicists with the same request. All I got was an absolute silence.
This is why I felt that finding the statistics you provided must have been providential. Could you share with me the source of the abortion statistics you provided? If it could be documented and verified the dramatic reduction in abortion statistics for Adventist institutions, this would be a great reason for praising the Lord. I have been praying for this to happen for several decades now. I am mainly interested in elective abortion statistics. Ted Wilson publicly assured me that elective abortion statistics in Adventist hospitals are practically down to zero, and I need to find a way to verify this. Can you help?
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
Hi Nic,
I have not been on this forum in quite a while and just received an email notification today that there was some activity on this thread. I am very pleased to meet you and to know that you are one of the few pro-life Adventists working to change your denomination’s official teaching on abortion which is not pro-life.
I joined the Seventh-day Adventist denomination in 1979. I just recently in the past 5 years reconcilled with and joined The Catholic Church in 2009.
Never, in any of my studies did I ever come across James or Ellen White labeling the practice of abortion as murder. If you have some source references where they do so, I would love if you would share them with me! I am not familiar with and of John Harvey’s writings to know if he labeled abortion murder or not, but I would love to see those source references as well.
Again, in my studies, I never came across any writings of Adventist pioneers or Mrs. White’s visions and teachings regarding the evil of abortion. It was my experience that the Adventists never had a position on abortion. When the issue became prominent in the 1970’s and the Adventists finally got around to creating a positionn on it, unfortunately they adopted the popular stand of the times and did not oppose abortion. Their hospitals made millions of dollars from performing abortions, and most members had no idea what was going on, so there was no motivation to do the right thing. I believe they are still struggling with the issue and still unable to do the right thing.
I share in your experience and disappointment with trying to be heard by the denomination’s leadership. They ignored me too…even with clear cold facts and statistics. I am very happy that you have created websites and I will check them out. Please know that you and your work will be presented to God in my daily prayer intentions! I pray for your success!
(cont’d next post)
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Patrick_Murebil
Guest
(cont’d from previous post)
I will be glad to help you in any way that I can. I take it that your real name is Nic Samojluk? My real name is Mike Senseney. In the early 90s I tried to meet other Adventists who were pro-life. I corresponded with a few back then. It would be interesting if you were one of them! Patirck Murebil was a blog user accont name I used before I ever thought about becoming Catholic. When I was looking to see if any other Seventh-day Adventists had become Catholic, believing at the time that I must be the only one in the world, providence led me to this site where I met other Adventist who had converted to Catholism. So I just used that name to access this forum. When I joined the Catholic Church in 2009 I began to post on the SDA2RC Blogspot and SDA2RC Forum, created by other former SDAs who converted to Catholicism, using my real name. I never changed my account name here. I spend most of my writing and discussion time over on those sites, thus the reason why I have not been here in a long time. I do however pray for the prayer requests on this site daily…always have and always will to the day I die. I will send you a private message on this site with my email. Please contact me and we can see what we might be able to do.
I am curious about one thing however. If Ted Wilson assured you that elective abortion statistics in Adventist hospitals are practically down to zero; then why have you not been able to get your hands on, and see, those statistics that Ted Wilson has referred to in his assurance to you? Have you asked Ted Wilson for those statistics that he has evidently seen or by which he has been informed by someone else?
God bless all!!!
I hope things have changed and that you will hear from those you contacted. But please do not be surprised or disappointed nor give up your fight for the life of the unborn if you do not hear from them.
I agree that our meeting is providential. Especially that during this Lenten season I am participating with other Catholics in 40 Days for Life. Much additional prayer and work is being focused on the pro-life cause during this season of fasting and prayer. I believe that you and I meeting are just one more answer to our many prayers regarding our concern in this important life and death matter. And it is life and death not just for the unborn, but for all the souls of those who are damaging their souls in promoting, profiting, and partaking of this deadly deception.
I will be glad to help you in any way that I can. I take it that your real name is Nic Samojluk? My real name is Mike Senseney. In the early 90s I tried to meet other Adventists who were pro-life. I corresponded with a few back then. It would be interesting if you were one of them! Patirck Murebil was a blog user accont name I used before I ever thought about becoming Catholic. When I was looking to see if any other Seventh-day Adventists had become Catholic, believing at the time that I must be the only one in the world, providence led me to this site where I met other Adventist who had converted to Catholism. So I just used that name to access this forum. When I joined the Catholic Church in 2009 I began to post on the SDA2RC Blogspot and SDA2RC Forum, created by other former SDAs who converted to Catholicism, using my real name. I never changed my account name here. I spend most of my writing and discussion time over on those sites, thus the reason why I have not been here in a long time. I do however pray for the prayer requests on this site daily…always have and always will to the day I die. I will send you a private message on this site with my email. Please contact me and we can see what we might be able to do.
I am curious about one thing however. If Ted Wilson assured you that elective abortion statistics in Adventist hospitals are practically down to zero; then why have you not been able to get your hands on, and see, those statistics that Ted Wilson has referred to in his assurance to you? Have you asked Ted Wilson for those statistics that he has evidently seen or by which he has been informed by someone else?
God bless all!!!
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