Seventh-day Adventist's Sabbath and Catholic's Sunday

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You know you’re arguing to a former Seventh-day Adventist,
I have no evidence to support that claim.
Ask other SDA’s and yourself: where were these teachings before 1827 (Ellen White’s birth)?
In the Bible and being taught in various denominations through time.
The Sabbath in the SDA world is a modified Sabbath of the Jews, and God did not give you a new modified Sabbath.
None of that is true.
You must not kindle a fire (electricity in our time),
The parenthetical remark is non sequitur.
the only Sabbath God commanded to the Jews.
Adam and Eve weren’t Jews. And most of the early Christian church around the Med, even as late as the 5th century (when the church was mostly Gentile, not Jewish), kept the Sabbath.
the Christian Church (“kath holos” - in Greek in Acts - Catholic) was given authority to change the Christian day of worship.
There is no biblical support for such. God made the day holy and only He could undo such a thing and since He changes not, the Sabbath is still holy.
They did this by getting rid of circumcism in the book of Acts.
Mis-interpretation of the text. The Gentiles no longer had to become Jews in order to enter into the body of believers.
We even see in the Didache it was a very early practice.
The Didache wasn’t written till around 200 A.D…
 
Are you just finding things to argue about? Realize I was just like you some several years ago. I asked Christ for a humble heart, and then the started showing me truth that I did have to wrestle with. I was unlearning to learn again. But what i said about what the ex-Rabbi said, it should be absolutely clear. There is only one Sabbath defined by God. SDA’s have a modified version of it without God’s authority, and it’s a protestant group. But I guess God has a blindfold on some people for now. Even the Jews are blindfolded about Christ, though some make it over. Prayer is the key 🙂 God bless.
 
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Anne88:
Actually we don’t believe that.
1. Lucifer and Michael were both archangels in heaven.

Ellen White, Signs of the Times, Sept 14, 1882 Paragraph 9
Rebellion originated with Satan. Notwithstanding the exalted position which he occupied among the heavenly host, he became dissatisfied because he was not accorded supreme honor. Hence he questioned God’s purposes and impugned his justice. He bent all his powers to allure the angels from their allegiance. The fact that HE WAS an ARCHANGEL, glorious and powerful, enabled** him **to exert a mighty influence. His complaints against God’s government, at first met with no favor; yet being urged again and again, they were finally accepted by those who had before been loyal and happy subjects of the King of Heaven.

SDA’s, believe, that prior to the coming to earth to try and eek out Salvation for humanity…
…Creature Christ existed in heaven as “Michael” the archangel.
…That adds up to Lucifer AND Michael existing as “archangel’s” at the same period of time.

According to Ellen White Lucifer & Michael weren’t the ONLY archangels flying around up there either…
…She claimed there were countless archangels.
…While there may be countless archangels & while Lucifer may have been one - Christ NEVER was one.

2. Christ loosing the title archangel after He was able to eek out His own salvation.

In SDA theology Christ WASN’T the Christ until He became the Christ “by not sinning”…
…Up until His death & Resurrection Ellen White gloated that “He could have sinned & lost His Salvation”.

**Ellen White, Desire of Ages, page 49 unto you a savior **
Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life’s peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.”

Ellen White, ST, June 9, 1898
Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. Christ and the church would have been without hope.”

SDA Deity of Christ, Longacre, pages 13 & 14
IF it were impossible for the Son of God to make a mistake or commit a sin, then His coming into this world and subjecting Himself to temptations were all a farce AND mere mockery. IF it were possible for Him to yield to temptation and fall into sin, then He MUST have risked heaven and His very existence, and EVEN all eternity. That is exactly what the Scriptures AND the Spirit of Prophecy say Christ, the Son of God did do when He came to work out for us a plan of salvation from the curse of sin.

IF Christ “risked all,” EVEN His ETERNAL EXISTENCE in heaven, then there was a possibility of His being overcome by sin, and IF overcome by sin, He would have gone into Joseph’s tomb and neither THAT tomb nor any other tomb would EVER have been opened. All would have been lost and HE would have suffered “eternal loss,” the loss of ALL He ever possessed &; His DIVINITY AND His humanity and heaven itself would have been "lost & eternally lost

It was possible for one of the God-head to be lost, and eternally lost - and IF that had happened, and it WAS possible to happen, “God, the Father”, would still have remained as the One and only absolute and living God, reigning supreme over all the unfallen worlds, but with all the human race blotted out of existence on this earth
.

Christ’s “Deity” wasn’t by nature His according to Ellen White, it was “conditional”, it was something “issued”…
…And Christ was free to keep it provided He didn’t screw up.
…Otherwise it ( the Deity ) would have been extracted and returned to the One who issued it.
 
DJconklin63:
There is no biblical support for such. God made the day holy and only He could undo such a thing and since He changes not, the Sabbath is still holy.
You need to read that again DJconklin63…
…God isn’t the Sabbath, it’s something He commanded ceremonial observance of.
…By a specific people at a specific time - like many other “ceremonials”.

You’re right about God not changing however…
…And you should apply that rule to your belief that ‘God’ could have sinned and lost His own Salvation.
 
Many SDAs, myself included, also hold that abortion is murder and a breaking of the 6th commandment (which would be your 5th commandment - Thou shalt not kill)
Many SDAs, myself included, also believe that life begins at conception and that certain forms of contraception are also a breaking of the 6th commandment
That’s good to hear and we stand united in that ( thanks for saying that BTW )…
…It’s too bad that there isn’t enough of you to outlaw the practice at your medical facilities.
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Anne88:
We also don’t believe that all Sunday worshipers will be lost. We believe that God judges people based on the truth that they knew and practiced.
Also good to hear - that’s what we believe.
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Anne88:
Most SDAs I know do not bash Catholics or Roman Catholicism. I do however know that there are some out there who do. This is not the Spirit of Christ, (1 John 4:20) and I would like to apologize to anyone who has ever experienced that negative reaction from a SDA. God loves all people and wants to lead them all into Truth and salvation.
Again, good to hear! This again is straight out of our “playbook” as well.
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Anne88:
As to the Sabbath question. There are many places in Acts where Paul is teaching and preaching and worshiping God in the churches on the Sabbath Day - the 7th day - as was his custom. (Acts 13:14,42,44; 17:2; 18:4) And even one Sabbath at a river where "prayer was made - worship - Acts 16:13) As to Paul meeting on the first day (as in the case where he was leaving the next day and wished to encourage the brethren) Do you also only worship God on Sunday? or do you hold prayer meetings, or Bible studies only on Sunday? God should be worshiped every day, but there is one special day that He set aside from the beginning as a holy, sanctified day. This day will also remain in the new earth Isaiah 66:22-23
According to Scripture Paul preached the Word of God…
…In the “Synagogues of the Jews”.
…In Salamis.
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Anne88:
If the Sabbath was going to be changed from the 7th day to the 1st day, why did Jesus not say so? Why did He say in Matthew 24:20, speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and last day events that believers should “pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath.” ?
He did say so, in Acts 15 when the question was raised by those who had been subverted…
…In Antioch by those who had no authority to teach what it was they were teaching.
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Anne88:
Why is it that the 4th commandment is almost the only one that we say we should not follow, when Jesus Himself kept all of the commandments and in Mat 24:20 clearly expected His followers to be keeping not only the other 9 commandments, but also the 4th, up to 40 years after He ascended to Heaven?
It’s the only “ceremonial” commandment in that list…
…It’s moral to dedicate some time to God each week, each day.
…It’s ceremonial as to the timing. i.e. man is not commanded by nature to observe Saturday over another day.
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Anne88:
Not only this, but in Revelation it talks about God’s people being sealed with the seal (or mark) of God in their forehead, (in their mind - beliefs which result in actions) What is a seal? It is something that states the name, title, and territory. So God’s seal on His people is something that states His name, His title, and His territory, and there is only one thing in the Bible that does that and it is the fourth commandment. Name: God, Title: Creator, Territory: Heaven and earth.
The Seal is the perpetual walking in the ways of God…
…Salvation is a “work in progress”.
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Anne88:
I don’t keep the Sabbath Day or any of the commandments to be saved. In other words. I don’t believe that there is anything I can do that could earn me merit for heaven or salvation. I am saved by the grace granted to me when I believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God, and accept His perfect life, His death, and His resurrection. I do keep the Sabbath Day because I love Him and want to show my love to Him through keeping His commandments, and living and walking as Jesus did (in daily surrender to God the Father, and keeping His Father’s commandments - John 15:10), so that God may be glorified in my life. 1 John 2:3-6; John 14:15

May God bless you all
I don’t have a problem with you “keeping” the Sabbath…
…More power to you for having the devotion.
 
Are you just finding things to argue about?
I don’t even think like that; why did you?
SDA’s have a modified version of it without God’s authority
There’s no evidence for that. In my local church we had a Jew who converted to Adventism. I’m sure if we were doing anything wrong, he would have told us.
 
You need to read that again DJconklin63…
…God isn’t the Sabbath,
it’s something He commanded ceremonial observance of.Genesis 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Where’s the ceremony?
By a specific people at a specific time - like many other “ceremonials”.
Mark 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
And you should apply that rule to your belief that ‘God’ could have sinned and lost His own Salvation.
I don’t have such a belief.
 
**1.**Christ’s “Deity” wasn’t by nature His according to Ellen White,
Totally wrong. Jesus was God incarnate in man.
it was “conditional”, it was something “issued”…
Please show the proof.
And Christ was free to keep it provided He didn’t screw up.
Prove it.
Otherwise it ( the Deity ) would have been extracted and returned to the One who issued it.
ROFL! Where’d you get these goofy and weird ideas?!?
 
Originally Posted by Pythons View Post:
…Such as the real God would have eternally annihilated Christ had He sinned.
That is NOT an SDA teaching.
 
**1.**Up until His death & Resurrection Ellen White gloated that “He could have sinned & lost His Salvation”.
Show us the “gloat”!

Jesus condemned sin in the flesh; He was for all practical purposes the second Adam–He showed that Adam didn’t have to sin, thereby removing that as an excuse. He didn’t “earn” or “eek” out His salvation because He did NOT sin!
 
To put a little better perspective on it.

Ellen White, Review and Herald Sept 4,1900
As a member of the human family he was mortal, but as a God he was the fountain of life to the world

Ellen White, Ellen White, GCB Dec 1, 1895
Remember that Christ risked all; “tempted like as we are,” he staked even his own eternal existence upon the issue of the conflict. Heaven itself was imperiled for our redemption

Review and Herald November 14, 1854
Again, where it is declared, that there are none good except the Father, it cannot be understood that none others are good in a relative sense; for Christ and angels, are good, yea perfect, in THEIR respective sphere; but that the Father alone is supremely, or absolutely, good; and that he alone is immortal in an absolute sense; that he alone is self-existent; and, that, consequently, every other being, however high or low, is absolutely dependent upon him for life; for being. This idea is most emphatically expressed by our Saviour himself; " For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to havo life in himself." John v, 26. This would be singular language for one to use who had life in his essential nature, just as much as the Father. To meet such a view, it should read thus: For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath the Son life in himself If as Trinitarians argue, the Divine nature of the Son hath life in himself (i. e., is self existent) jusl the same, and in as absolute a sense, as the Father, why should he represent himself as actually dependent upon the Father for life ? What propriety in representing the Father as conferring upon him a gift which he had possessed from all eternity ? If it be said that his human nature derived its life from the Father, I would answer, It does not thus read; 01 even if it did, 1 would still urge the impropriety of the human nature of the Son of God representing itself as being absolutely dependent upon the Father for the gift of life

It is statements like these ( and an moutain of other such statements ) that absolutely prove…
…Ellen White was a rank Arian from the time she renounced her Methodist Trinitarian Creed.
…To when she fianlly took her dirt nap.
 
It’s the only “ceremonial” commandment in that list…
…It’s moral to dedicate some time to God each week, each day.
…It’s ceremonial as to the timing. i.e. man is not commanded by nature to observe Saturday over another day…
The Sabbath is not a ceremonial commandment. It was instituted at Creation, long before there were any Hebrews. and according to Ezekiel 20:12 and 20:20 - the Sabbath is a sign that God is the one who sanctifies us (sets us apart, and makes us holy - saves us/re-creates us in His image(character))
So worshiping God on His Sabbath shows that we believe that He is God and that He is the only one who can save us and change us - There is nothing we can do to be saved or to be perfected. It is faith in action
 
The Sabbath is not a ceremonial commandment. It was instituted at Creation, long before there were any Hebrews.
Man was intended to live “perpetually” in God’s Rest…
…That’s what the Sabbath was “intended to be” for our 1st parents.
…As it’s explained by Jews.

torah.org/features/holydays/highholidays.html
from that above URL:
G-d evaluates us collectively, just as a shepherd looks over his flock with one glance. And individually, He also judges us like a shepherd who looks at each single sheep as it files through a narrow opening in the gate. So Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur are more than just a Jewish version of New Year’s Day. It’s a time of great introspection, of teshuva/repentance, of stock-taking. According to an ancient Jewish tradition, it marks the creation of Adam and Eve – who were created, who sinned, and who were judged all on the same day.
Man was intended to forever live “IN” God’s Rest but man was thrown out of it…
…Along with the weeds and thorns and animals that would eat man.
…Came the “ceremonials”.
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Anne88:
and according to Ezekiel 20:12 and 20:20 - the Sabbath is a sign that God is the one who sanctifies us (sets us apart, and makes us holy - saves us/re-creates us in His image(character))
So worshiping God on His Sabbath shows that we believe that He is God and that He is the only one who can save us and change us - There is nothing we can do to be saved or to be perfected. It is faith in action
Like I said earlier, I have nothing against you holding your Sabbath worship…
…Every Catholic Church holds Mass on Saturday so there again that’s Sabbath worship.

I don’t think SDA’s holding their worship on the Sabbath is a problem at all Anne88…
…The problem I have with SDA teaching is their Arian creature Christ doctrine.
…That Ellen White gloated about.
 
Man was intended to live “perpetually” in God’s Rest…
…That’s what the Sabbath was “intended to be” for our 1st parents.
…As it’s explained by Jews.

torah.org/features/holydays/highholidays.html

Man was intended to forever live “IN” God’s Rest but man was thrown out of it…
…Along with the weeds and thorns and animals that would eat man.
…Came the “ceremonials”.

Like I said earlier, I have nothing against you holding your Sabbath worship…
…Every Catholic Church holds Mass on Saturday so there again that’s Sabbath worship.

I don’t think SDA’s holding their worship on the Sabbath is a problem at all Anne88…
…The problem I have with SDA teaching is their Arian creature Christ doctrine.
…That Ellen White gloated about.
I don’t think that man was created, sinned and judged all on the same day… if that were true, then God would never have even got to creating the Sabbath like He did. There is no Bible evidence for the belief that they sinned the same day they were created.

I’ve read your quotes from EGW about what you term creature Christ doctrine, but from my reading of those quotes and everything else she says on the topic I can’t find that doctrine. SDAs believe that Jesus is (one with) God, was God, and will always be God. That he was there at Creation. that, as John 1 says… without Him nothing was made that was made. That He is the I AM, as He Himself says.

There’s more I could say, but I don’t want to cause problems or be misinterpreted. The mystery of God becoming a man to save us is exactly that… The plan of redemption will be studied for all eternity and we will never be able to get to the full extent of the wondrous love of God as it is revealed in that plan.
I’m just so glad that He loved us while we were yet sinners and died for us before we loved or accepted Him.
 
For Pete’s sake, does it really matter. Seems mighty petty to me. We have to celebrate the Lord’s Day some day, any day is fine with me. The Catholic Church has always chosen Sunday because it is the first day of the week and Tradition tells us that Christ Rose from the Dead on the First day of the week. So our Sunday is a commeration of Christ’s Resurrection. ( CCC, para 2174,2175 )

Linus2nd
True, but one can still fulfill their obligation to go to mass on Saturday evenings, so how is it that these SDAs are converting Catholics?
 
I don’t think that man was created, sinned and judged all on the same day… if that were true, then God would never have even got to creating the Sabbath like He did.
I just showed you what Rosh Hashanah means to the Jews who celebrated it…
…Do you believe that Jesus either didn’t observe this Feast.
…Or that Jesus subscribed to a different meaning of it or something?
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Anne88:
There is no Bible evidence for the belief that they sinned the same day they were created.
There is no Biblical evidence for the resurrection of Moses either…
…But you do believe that Moses was resurrected, right?
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Anne88:
I’ve read your quotes from EGW about what you term creature Christ doctrine, but from my reading of those quotes and everything else she says on the topic I can’t find that doctrine.
If you believe that Christ was capable of both vice and virtue & that He…
…Could have sinned and lost His salvation you do indeed believe in creature Christ doctrine.
…Yes or no, do you accept or reject this SDA, JW’s, Christadelphian, WWCOG, AKA Arian teaching?
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Anne88:
SDAs believe that Jesus is (one with) God, was God, and will always be God. That he was there at Creation. that, as John 1 says… without Him nothing was made that was made. That He is the I AM, as He Himself says.
Ellen White taught that Christ was one with God “in the sense” that Christ was one with His Apostles…
…It wouldn’t be correct to say that the Apostles were one with God and therefore were God.
…Would it.

Ellen White, Review and Herald, Jan 14, 1909
We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest ANGEL in heaven

Ellen White, 8T, P. 269
The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, but not in person. It is thus that God and Christ are one."
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Anne88:
There’s more I could say, but I don’t want to cause problems or be misinterpreted. The mystery of God becoming a man to save us is exactly that… The plan of redemption will be studied for all eternity and we will never be able to get to the full extent of the wondrous love of God as it is revealed in that plan.
I’m just so glad that He loved us while we were yet sinners and died for us before we loved or accepted Him.
You’re doing fine! Again, you just said some more things I agree with…
…Finite man can’t fully understand his Infinite Creator.
…We can only go on what we were given.

One of the most clear things the Sacred Scriptures has given us is that Christ couldn’t fail…
…In fact the only time in Scripture Jesus calls His followers “Fools”.
…Is when they intimated that Jesus “might not have made it”.

This is why the Creed makes it clear that according to Scripture it’s blasphemy to suggest Christ…
…Was capable of vice.
 
Most SDAs I know do not bash Catholics or Roman Catholicism. I do however know that there are some out there who do. This is not the Spirit of Christ, (1 John 4:20) and I would like to apologize to anyone who has ever experienced that negative reaction from a SDA. God loves all people and wants to lead them all into Truth and salvation.

May God bless you all
You personally may not bash Catholics but there is a cable channel: 3ABN which is SDA and they have a gentleman on there (I’ve never caught his name) who is extremely anti-Catholic and makes not bones about it. The SDA cable channel seems to have no issue promoting anti-Catholicism.

And God bless you as well.
 
You personally may not bash Catholics but there is a cable channel: 3ABN which is SDA and they have a gentleman on there (I’ve never caught his name) who is extremely anti-Catholic and makes not bones about it. The SDA cable channel seems to have no issue promoting anti-Catholicism.

And God bless you as well.
Oh, I know of 3ABN. I haven’t watched it in years, but when I did watch it, I never heard Catholic bashing. Yes I know of pastors on there who when preaching prophecy mention the Papal Catholic church - usually referring to the Papal Church between the time period of 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D. (It is unavoidable) but they normally remember to say at the beginning that they believe that Catholic people are sincere, genuine people, and that anything mentioned about the Catholic church is not a representation of it’s people.

I am sorry and I apologize for the pain it has caused you.
 
The Sabbath is not a ceremonial commandment. It was instituted at Creation, long before there were any Hebrews. and according to Ezekiel 20:12 and 20:20 - the Sabbath is a sign that God is the one who sanctifies us (sets us apart, and makes us holy - saves us/re-creates us in His image(character))
So worshiping God on His Sabbath shows that we believe that He is God and that He is the only one who can save us and change us - There is nothing we can do to be saved or to be perfected. It is faith in action
Mark 2:27-28
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
27 And he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.”
 
Mark 2:27-28
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
27 And he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; 28 so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.”
That’s right He is, and He never changed it 🙂
 
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