Seventh-day Adventist's Sabbath and Catholic's Sunday

[Pythons]

Chero:

I know when my girlfriend and I were talking early in our relationship I told her we need to get united because it can cause trouble. She said, you want us to be united and for me to forget about my beliefs. I told her no, we need to be united so no one can come and destroy us. You used to be SDA, she said that a teaching of the SDA church, was that a sign of the antichrist, was that a church, would attempt to unite all Christian churches and become 1, then passing a worldwide blue law.

I told her so unity is bad, she says yes, because I will not leave my beliefs. I told her Hun, in the Bible Jesus and the apostles preach about unity. She would reply, you haven’t read it right. Time passed, and earlier this week we came upon Matthew 12:25, and to paraphrase, Jesus says, a country and family divided destroys itself. I told her, Hun, Jesus who is God wants us to be united to overcome rebellion, and he is talking about the present, not for the next life.

It shocked her, that that verse was there.

But, yes, I have told her, you need to be smart, you need to see that both churches will not be able to live under one roof.

Chero, as others have opined related to the SDA Church and a possible future with your g/f if she opts to remain in it…
…The SDA’s abhor the Nicene Creed and refuse to say it or even accept the Theology it reflects.
…The SDA’s advocate the “creature christ” Doctrine and because the Creed was created to combat THAT.
…The SDA’s, on account of their fundamental articles of faith reject the Nicene Creed.

Just be wary my friend.

 

[chero23]

Chero, as others have opined related to the SDA Church and a possible future with your g/f if she opts to remain in it…
…The SDA’s abhor the Nicene Creed and refuse to say it or even accept the Theology it reflects.
…The SDA’s advocate the “creature christ” Doctrine and because the Creed was created to combat THAT.
…The SDA’s, on account of their fundamental articles of faith reject the Nicene Creed.

Just be wary my friend.

Trust me I love the girl, but it will not compromise my faith. I will not leave the truth.

 

[Bernard_Lyons]

1st Cor 16,1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem

The ONE day when “ALL” the Christians in Galatia & Corinth would see Paul…
…Was obviously the day in which Christians gathered together.
…That day was the first day of the week.

Hebrews 10,25
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching

Christians were not welcome to conduct “Christian worship” in Jewish Synagogues…
…And as Scripture clearly states they assembled THEMSELVES together on the 1st day of the week.
…No amount of Scripture twisting can change that.

Sunday is a Christian “thing” started by the earliest Christians…
…Generally EVERY group that speaks against it just so happens to teach.
…creature Christ and soul sleeping - what does that tell you?

Acts 18:4. “And he “(Paul)” reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath ,and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.”

Earlier on in acts, you will remember ,Paul was pressed in the spirit to get to Jerusalem for the feast,(Passover ) and so in his labours to reach all peoples (and dispensations)and no doubt to be all things to all men,he would no doubt have opted for other days of the week(although not strictly avoiding Sabbath days altogether) the first day obviously being the next possible available slot in his very heavy workload ,in which to facilitate the gentile believers in the out working of his tight schedule .

I know you to be a junior member so please do not take this as criticism but “Sun day” predates Christian times by a long shot,as does all other days of our week ,where traditionally, worship to the Sun(god) was the a rule of the day.

You mention elsewhere that there was the accusation that early Christians were cannibals This also has a precedence : in john 6:60 these disciples not understanding spiritual words,thought Jesus was instigating cannibal practices ( verse 63 “they are spirit and the are life”) later ,verse 66 “From that time many of his disciples went back.”

 

[Pythons]

Acts 18:4. “And he “(Paul)” reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath ,and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.”

Earlier on in acts, you will remember ,Paul was pressed in the spirit to get to Jerusalem for the feast,(Passover ) and so in his labours to reach all peoples (and dispensations)and no doubt to be all things to all men,he would no doubt have opted for other days of the week(although not strictly avoiding Sabbath days altogether) the first day obviously being the next possible available slot in his very heavy workload ,in which to facilitate the gentile believers in the out working of his tight schedule .

I know you to be a junior member so please do not take this as criticism but “Sun day” predates Christian times by a long shot,as does all other days of our week ,where traditionally, worship to the Sun(god) was the a rule of the day.

You mention elsewhere that there was the accusation that early Christians were cannibals This also has a precedence : in john 6:60 these disciples not understanding spiritual words,thought Jesus was instigating cannibal practices ( verse 63 “they are spirit and the are life”) later ,verse 66 “From that time many of his disciples went back.”

Name one religion outside of Christianity that existed as a religion prior to Christianity…
…That “set-aside” a Gregorian / Julian Sunday to observe the ‘sun god’.
…Exactly which religions do you speak of here?

Of course Paul would have visited Synagogues every chance he would have got…
…Paul was a Jew and was converting as many as possible by sharing the Gospel with them.

I remember when the Passion of the Christ Movie came out there was much discussion on SDA forums…
…Some authority figure for the SDA Church said the movie was a great opportunity for SDA’s.
…As they could wait outside and pass out pamphlets to people leaving the movie.

The same guy also said if someone wanted the real low-down on what happened they should just read Ellen White’s books about it…
…In other words SDA’s didn’t agree with the Movie but did agree with hanging around where the movie was playing.
…Try to put THAT spin on what Paul was doing “every Sabbath” Bernard.

If you want to share the good news with Jews and talk to as many as possible…
…You simply GO TO WHERE THEY ARE CONCENTRATED.
…Such as where they worship.

Just like if Paul didn’t want to run around to each Christian’s house to get their collection…
…He would simply show up on the day ALL Christians gathered together.
…Which according to the Bible was Sunday.

It’s not that hard.

 

[Bernard_Lyons]

“S D A’s may think they are hot in the art of exposing the errors of others but as is often the case” protestors" of any sort,without Saving Grace are not so hot when their own (sins) errors are brought into the light (of holy scripture).

In response to a riddle from the Sadducees(who denied the resurrection ) Jesus :“ye know not the scriptures or the power of God” " I am the God of Abraham ,and the God of Issac,and the God of Jacob"

“He is not the God of the dead ,but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err”(Mark 12:24,26,27)

Although primarily affirming the resurrection of the body ,Jesus in asserting God to be The God of the “living” shows us that as he was God of both Abrahams body and soul ,so although his body slept,Abrahams soul was still very much alive( see also Luke 16:22 where
“Abraham’s bosom” declares his soul alive and well).As is proven when both Moses and Elijah are very much alive , seen talking with Jesus on the "mount of transfiguration ".

Concerning those who deny the deity of Christ ,here there is nothing new either: Matt 22:41-46.
“Saying What think ye of Christ? Whose son is he? They say unto him The son of David “(or merely of an human origin)” He said unto them,How then doth David in spirit call him Lord”

Here was a mystery, that although spoken of in Psalm 110 ,they had not at all considered; if David called his son Lord, (this name is ascribed to deity ,as can be seen throughout the book of psalms )then how is he only the offspring of a man ,David ?

And not rather the eternal “Son of God”(incarnate).
Verse 46 “And no man was able to answer him a word,neither did any man from that day forth ask him any more questions”

 

[Bernard_Lyons]

Name one religion outside of Christianity that existed as a religion prior to Christianity…
…That “set-aside” a Gregorian / Julian Sunday to observe the ‘sun god’.
…Exactly which religions do you speak of here?

Psalm 19:1,2
"The heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament showeth his handywork .

Day unto day utterth speech ,and night unto night showeth knowledge."

As I tried to show from my previous use of the verse above ,“The Lord 's Day” predates all Callander times and is something set forth from the creation no less.
Before the eyes of the creator there are only two realms or states among men for time and eternity ;

to those who are of the day, this day is endless,never to close;

and to those who are oblivious to the glory of these truths (psalm 19 eg.)and this glorious day, there is and always will be darkness.

"The Sabbath was made for man ,and not man for the Sabbath "

That God throughout time ,has continued his work : (Gen 1:18) “…and devide the light from the darkness”

From the beginning this is a work God ( in three persons) has never rested from ,and all the signs and shadows( which were for mans benefit),even the creation (the sun in this respect is a shadow of the coming of Christ) and these shadows naturally were only until ,the "Light of the world " ascended up into the heavens,these shadows then were no more looked upon.

“There remains yet a rest for the people of God” "This is the day that The Lord hath made we will rejoice and be glad in it "

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

To Patrick Murebil, I’m not sure why you want me to find one poor inadequate English word to describe our Almighty, Eternal, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Just, Merciful, Loving, True, Faithful, Wonderful God? I honestly don’t think I have enough information about the reason of your question to answer it.

Hi Anne88,

I agree with all of words you used above to describe God!!!

I’m more interested in the fact that God is Eternal. God has no beginning and no ending.

So let me re-phrase it and ask you again.

Would you say that God is Eternal since He has no beginning and no ending?

Thank you in advance for your answer!

God bless all!!!

 

[Pythons]

The SDA’s believe that God the Father is the only ONE who is absolutely good with no possibility of ceasing to exist…

…Michael the archangel just like Lucifer the archangel had the possibility of sinning & loosing his salvation.

Review and Herald, November 14 1854
Again, where it is declared, that there are none good except the Father, it cannot be understood that none others are good in a relative sense; for Christ and angels, are good, yea perfect, in their respective sphere; but that the Father alone is supremely, or absolutely, good; AND that he alone is immortal in an absolute sense; that he alone is self-existent; and, that, consequently, every other being, however high or low, is absolutely dependent upon him for life; for being. This idea is most emphatically expressed by our savior himself; " For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself." John v, 26.

This is based on the SDA ‘Personality of God’ Doctrine upon which the structure of SDA rests…
…God is a single Person ( a Personality ) & while Christ can be called a God & worshipped as such.
…There is an understanding that Christ’s deity was CONDITIONAL thus the life in Him ( Christ ) was actually gifted by the Father.
…And if Christ messed up The Father would have extracted Christ’s conditional or gifted deity.

Ellen White
Could Satan in the least particular have tempted Christ to sin, he would have bruised the Saviour’s head. As it was, he could only touch His heel. Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. Christ and the church would have been without hope.” ( Signs of the Times, June 9th 1898, see also Selected Messages Book 1 page 256)

Ellen White
Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His Deity could not be lost WHILE He stood faithful and true to His loyalty.

There exists another oddity in SDA theology I’ve head from Seventh-day Adventists & that is what ‘God’ did or didn’t do to Christ at the resurrection…
…In other-words since Christ’s two natures were BLENDED there remains a distant possibility that Christ could at some point in the future rebel.
…In other words God either “DID SOMETHING” to forever keep Him from sinning post resurrection.

OR

The ability for Christ to sin remains in Christ - it’s either THAT or Christ wasn’t really God in the first place…
…Which is exactly what the article excerpt above explicitly says.

 

[housefone]

GEN: and GOD rested on the 7th day, and GOD hallowed the 7th day, blessed it and made it holy, and GOD sanctified the 7th day… So the day of rest was in place long before there were JEWS. For this is the love of GOD that we keep his commandments and they are not burdensome. Jesus kept the commandments/the day of rest. As a carpenter you never read about him making a dinning room set on the sabbath. some silly willies will tell you sunday is the 7th day, but read matt, they came looking for Jesus on the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath. Jesus kept the Sabbath because he is the lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world. If he broke the Sabbath he would be blemished thus he could not be offered up as a sacrifice

 

[Pythons]

GEN: and GOD rested on the 7th day, and GOD hallowed the 7th day, blessed it and made it holy, and GOD sanctified the 7th day… So the day of rest was in place long before there were JEWS. For this is the love of GOD that we keep his commandments and they are not burdensome. Jesus kept the commandments/the day of rest. As a carpenter you never read about him making a dinning room set on the sabbath. some silly willies will tell you sunday is the 7th day, but read matt, they came looking for Jesus on the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath. Jesus kept the Sabbath because he is the lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world. If he broke the Sabbath he would be blemished thus he could not be offered up as a sacrifice

What you are yearning to say is that if Jesus didn’t keep the Sabbath then God would extracted His conditional deity…
…Then Christ would have died then rotted in the tomb.
…Yeah, we know about SDA teaching here I’m afraid.

 

[vsedriver]

GEN: and GOD rested on the 7th day, and GOD hallowed the 7th day, blessed it and made it holy, and GOD sanctified the 7th day… So the day of rest was in place long before there were JEWS. For this is the love of GOD that we keep his commandments and they are not burdensome. Jesus kept the commandments/the day of rest. As a carpenter you never read about him making a dinning room set on the sabbath. some silly willies will tell you sunday is the 7th day, but read matt, they came looking for Jesus on the first day of the week, the day after the Sabbath. Jesus kept the Sabbath because he is the lamb of GOD who takes away the sins of the world. If he broke the Sabbath he would be blemished thus he could not be offered up as a sacrifice

read what you just wrote. The sabbath is the 7th day after 6 days of work. It is not saying the Sabbath is Saturday. First day of the week, last day of the week is a human creation. Sabbath was made for Man not Man for the Sabbath. If I work six days and rest on the seventh and the Church instituted by Christ determines that is the day of worship then no one is breaking a Commandment. The Commandment is to keep holy the sabbath day. It is the right and authority of the Church to decide which day is the sabbath day. The Sabbath has not been done away with but has been made more perfect for mankind.

 

[Pythons]

Vsedriver,

SDA theology requires that it’s adherents believe that the primary reason Christ came and died…
…Was so that God’s law could be “validated” - salvation was a by-product of that validation.
…The teaching is that after Satan got kicked out of heaven he leveled a charge against God Almighty.

The charge Lucifer made against God was that His law was to difficult to keep…
…Therefore Christ came to prove that the law could be kept.
…So as to prevent God from being humiliated in the universe based off Lucifer’s charge.

Because SDA’s hold Ellen White has a super prophet AND she explicitly said God told her God ordained a Gregorian Saturday…
…That was the primary law Christ came to “vindicate” for if Christ had failed to keep the Sabbath properly.
…Ultimate God would have annihilated Christ and Lucifer’s charge against God would have stuck.
…Unfortunately THAT is what they believe.

Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.–Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. (“Notes of Work,” Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}

Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}

Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples.

**Ellen White R&H August 13, 1895, paragraph 6 **
Representing the law of God in its true character arouses the enmity of Satan. Those who love God with all the heart, will love the law of his kingdom. They will not only profess to be guided by its principles, but they will actually live them out, even in a world that is no more favorable to the development of Christian principles than were the inhabitants of the world before the flood, of whom it is written that the thoughts and imaginations of their hearts were evil, and only evil continually. A similar condition of society exists in our world today, and if those who claim to be God’s commandment-keeping people do not put in practice the principles of the law which Christ came to our world to vindicate, pronouncing it holy, just, and good, they misrepresent the character and mission of their professed Master

Interestingly enough Ellen White also believed that she was also sent to vindicate the law of God…

Ellen White
Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil’s purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. God has spared my life that I may present the testimonies given me, to vindicate that which God vindicates, and to denounce every sophistry [intended] to deceive if possible the very elect.–Ms 126, 1905, pp. 3, 7. (“A Warning Against Present Dangers,” typed December 29, 1905.) {5MR 144.1}

 

[vsedriver]

Vsedriver,

SDA theology requires that it’s adherents believe that the primary reason Christ came and died…
…Was so that God’s law could be “validated” - salvation was a by-product of that validation.
…The teaching is that after Satan got kicked out of heaven he leveled a charge against God Almighty.

 

[Pythons]

Pythons;11641049:

Vsedriver,

well then, it comes down to authority to teach. What gives Ellen White the authority to teach a different gospel? This is the case of another false prophet.

They would claim God gave Ellen the authority to teach, to correct and rebuke the true followers of God…
…They also claim that ( as did Ellen ) that the Bible writers were God’s penmen but NOT His pen.
…Ellen asserts that SHE was God’s pen thus SDA’s refer to her often as “the pen of inspiration”.

As for the grip Ellen has on SDA’s pertaining to the Gregorian Saturday and how important it is to them…
…We simply need to look at what she said about that specifically.

Ellen White
"]It means eternal salvation TO keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord.God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor

." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

Ellen White
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Thus, going to Church on Sunday is part of the subtleties of Satan.

Ellen White
He designed that man should worship him upon THAT day, and engage in no secular pursuits. No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

Ellen White
I saw that Jesus had shut the door of the holy place, and no man can open it; and that He had opened the door into the most holy, and no man can shut it (Revelation 3:7, 8); [see page 86. See also appendix.] and that since Jesus has opened the door into the most holy place, which contains the ark, the commandments have been shining out to God’s people, and they are being tested on the Sabbath question. {EW 42.2}

Ellen White
But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Notice that, going to Church on Sunday is an invention of Lucifer.

There are of course many other things said about the Sabbath but they are along the same lines as above…
…When we answer SDA’s about their Sabbath questions these teachings and a slew of others.
…Are what is banging around in their head - it’s what we are dealing with.

 

[spina1953]

I saw a recent PBS film on the SDA and it seems to me that Ellen White was one of the original believers of the William Miller Millerites and when it failed to come about as Miller taught Ellen While then became a Prophet for a new way of thinking and brought a number of gullible folks into her way of thinking.
What this showed me is that one can learn from it how so many misguided people can twist Scripture texts to produce unbiblical ideas. it also shows how savvy promoters can use visibility and plausibility to such ideas and also shows just how easily some Christians can be persuaded to adopt an eccentric teachings about the second coming of Christ if it promises them a quick escape from the troubles of the world. What this leads to is a distortion of what the Word of God in Scripture really is and means. They often take a quote from Scripture and then try to make it fit their own personal preconceived notions. The Sabbath day can be any day as in the beginning no ones which day God rested and the days of the week are a man made idea as time. Besides Christ at the Last Supper said it was the new and ever lasting Covenant; that says that it now super cedes the Old.
What is more import? trying to live the Gospels as Christ taught trough the Apostles and the Catholic Church or trying to figure out what day the Sabbath has to fall on in order to worship?

 

[housefone]

Matthew 28:1 Now, after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other mary came to see the tomb. (They are talking what we call easter sunday). Sunday the first day of the week, pull out a calender and mark the days.
sunday…1
Monday…2
Tuesday…3
Wednesday 4
Thursday 5
Friday 6
Saturday 7

Christ did not rise on easter Monday. Sunday , the bible says the first day of the week.

God rested on the 7th day, God hallowed and sanctified the seventh day not the first day, GOD is unchanging, he is the same yesterday, today and forever…
it is what it is

 

[spina1953]

Matthew 28:1 Now, after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other mary came to see the tomb. (They are talking what we call easter sunday). Sunday the first day of the week, pull out a calender and mark the days.
sunday…1
Monday…2
Tuesday…3
Wednesday 4
Thursday 5
Friday 6
Saturday 7

Christ did not rise on easter Monday. Sunday , the bible says the first day of the week.

God rested on the 7th day, God hallowed and sanctified the seventh day not the first day, GOD is unchanging, he is the same yesterday, today and forever…
it is what it is

Since the days of the week are a man made thing, when did the Sabbath fall on before there was a calendar? How do we really know what day God actually rested? What day did God actually create and what day did God actually rest? when there was no calendar to begin with, before God talked to Abraham, who is the father of all who believe in one God?
The answer is that no one knows.

 

[housefone]

the sda nor the jews created the days of rest, again what day did Jesus rise up from the tomb, the first day of the week. so if sunday is not the first day of the week what day was Jesus resurrected on. Then its not Easter Sunday, but Easter Monday, Easter Friday.
The fourth commandments reads REMEMBER the Sabbath day, you can’t remember the day if you have no account of it. Do you remember mrs. Smith your first grade teacher, if mrs smith wasn’t your first grade teacher you can’t remember it. Saturday is the seventh day, read around Constan the great in 312/321 AD said let us make sunday the day of worship and rest…

 

[spina1953]

the sda nor the jews created the days of rest, again what day did Jesus rise up from the tomb, the first day of the week. so if sunday is not the first day of the week what day was Jesus resurrected on. Then its not Easter Sunday, but Easter Monday, Easter Friday.
The fourth commandments reads REMEMBER the Sabbath day, you can’t remember the day if you have no account of it. Do you remember mrs. Smith your first grade teacher, if mrs smith wasn’t your first grade teacher you can’t remember it. Saturday is the seventh day, read around Constan the great in 312/321 AD said let us make sunday the day of worship and rest…

I understand what you are saying and I agree. However, in past posts it was brought up that the Sabbath was from the dime of Adam and Eve. I was merely trying to point out that the SDA have got it wrong. besides, When Jesus proclaimed the new and ever lasting Covenant at the last Supper, that Covenant trans sends the old. On top of that the Catholic Church never did away with the Sabbath we worship on Sunday because that is the day in which our Lord rose from the dead and the Apostles have remembered it and have passed it on to all who believe in Jesus the Christ.

 

[housefone]

rev 22:14 those who keep his commandments , they will have the right to the tree of life
john: and this how we know we love GOD ,we keep his commandments and they are not burdensome. We keep the commandments because we love GOD, no other reason, grace by faith in Jesus Christ is our salvation. cut your grass do your laundry on Saturday is wrong, do it on sunday after church is okay