Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[Richard_Kastner]

No Faith will not baptise us with the Holy Spirit. Gods death and res. on the cross is the free gift that is given to us at Baptism that baptises us with the Holy Spirit.

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is imparted to us whether we want is or not.

John 3:16 (King James Version)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Are you saying that John is wrong here. That we really don’t need to believe, that God will give salvation to us whether we want it or not. Notice what it says here. There is not a word in here about baptism. The free gift of His son is given by the father to WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH. This is done independent of baptism and is totally a matter of FAITH.

It was not faith in God that saved us from sin. If that were true Jesus would not have had to come. Do you deny the faith of our Father Abraham.

This statement is just sad. Not to mention contradictory. So you don’t believe John when he says “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Why is it that Abraham also need a Savior. It was by the death of Jesus on the cross that saved us from all sin and that Baptism is possible to take away that sin. Its called original sin, the sin we were all born into. Even Father Abraham.

If we were not born into Original sin we would not die. But we all had it just like Father Abraham because he died also.

Colossians 2:12 burned with him in baptism…raised with in in faith.

Tell me if our faith could say us why did Jesus have to die on the cross to take away sin. Are you saying when John was baptising people their faith was enough. Then why did John say one will come who will baptise you with the Spirit.

Why in Col. 2: Say that because of Christ they must reject all religions except for the Gospel of Christ. Why did he tell them that all they need is Baptism and they did not require the Old law Circumcision.

Why did Paul say that in Baptism their whole being has been effected by Christ through the forgiveness of sins and resurrection to a new life.

You continue to claim that we have to do something to have forgiveness of sins and eternal life. But you refuse to see that all have been done by Christ. You refuse to see that by the death of Christ he cancelled out the debt that stood against us will all the claims against the Old Law.

Why do you continue to be blind that Baptism is all that is necessary and when Paul is talking to the Col. he is telling them Salvation cannot be done by false spriits, dietary practices or though wisdom. That God in the Fullness of deity took away all sins with baptism.

You seem to be stuck on the Old Law that was wiped out. Clean slate by baptism and are very confused on Original Sin which is wiped away, and actual sin which we now do.

Baptism does not wipe out actual sin commited after baptism. It wipes out Original sin which is needed to be wiped out in order to enter heaven. Which requires Baptism.

You seem to be blind to the fact that OLD LAW is replaced with the now new Law. Now we must be Baptised, Then when we sin we must repent and confess and be reunited with Christ through confession. We do not have to confess, original sin. It is a FREE GIFT. Please reread the scripture now in the context it is written. Pray on it, meditate on it. I will pray for you that the Holy Spirit can show to you what Paul was teaching.

Original sin is a Catholic fabrication.

Ezekial18
19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[benidict]

What do you think that yoke was Ben? Are you suggesting that this yoke is the ten commandments? So then if this is what you are saying after God gave the decalogue, Moses says
Deu.5
22These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
27Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.

The Lord gives the children of Israel the ten commandments with His own mouth and writes them on stone with His own finger and they say they will do them then the Lord speaks to Moses.

28And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.

29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

30Go say to them, Get you into your tents again.

31But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it.

32Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.

33Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

But you are saying that these words of God are done away with by this council in Jerusalem? Is that about it Ben?

im not done but what i was looking forward to happening, is. Peace

 

[benidict]

Then it pleased the apostles and ancients, with the whole Church, to choose men of their own company, and to send to Antioch, with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was surnamed Barnabas, and Silas, chief among the bretheren. Writing by their hands: The apostles and ancients, bretheren, to the bretheren of the Gentiles that are of Antioch, and in Syria and Cilicia, greeting. Forasmuch as we have heard that SOME GOING OUT FROM US HAVE TROUBLED YOUR SOULS; TO WHOM WE GAVE NO COMMANDMENT: It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to Choose out men, and to send them unto you, with our well beloved Barnabas and Paul: Men that have given their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.We have sent therefor Judas and Silas, who themselves also will by the word of mouth, tell you the same things: FOR IT HATH SEEMED GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND TO US, TO LAY NO FURTHER BURDEN UPON YOU THAN THESE NECESSARY THINGS: THAT YOU ABTAIN FROM THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS, AND FROM BLOOD, AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED, AND FROM FORNIFICATION; FROM SUCH THINGS KEEP YOURSELVES, YOU SHALL DO WELL. fare ye well. acts 15:1-29

 

[benidict]

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deiceiving your own selves. For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a beholding his own countenance in a glass. for he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was. But he THAT HATH LOOKED INTO THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, AND HATH CONTINUED THEREIN, NOT BECOMING A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK; THIS MAN SHALL BE BLESSED IN HIS DEED. And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridleing his own toungue, but deceiving his own heart, this mans religion is vain. RELIGION CLEAN AND UNDEFILED BEFORE GOD AND THE FATHER IS THIS: TO VISIT THE FATHERLESS IN WIDOWS IN THEIR TRIBULATION: AND TO KEEP ONES SELF UNSPOTTED FROM THIS WORLD. james 1:22-27

 

[me_again]

Original sin is a Catholic fabrication.

Ezekial18
19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Conversely, the bible says that sin can be passed down six or seven generations. I only point this out as a dichotomy i.e. we can make the bible say what we want it to — but the Lord only had one original interpretation.

 

[me_again]

Then it pleased the apostles and ancients, with the whole Church, to choose men of their own company, and to send to Antioch, with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was surnamed Barnabas, and Silas, chief among the bretheren. Writing by their hands: The apostles and ancients, bretheren, to the bretheren of the Gentiles that are of Antioch, and in Syria and Cilicia, greeting. Forasmuch as we have heard that SOME GOING OUT FROM US HAVE TROUBLED YOUR SOULS; TO WHOM WE GAVE NO COMMANDMENT: It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to Choose out men, and to send them unto you, with our well beloved Barnabas and Paul: Men that have given their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.We have sent therefor Judas and Silas, who themselves also will by the word of mouth, tell you the same things: FOR IT HATH SEEMED GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND TO US, TO LAY NO FURTHER BURDEN UPON YOU THAN THESE NECESSARY THINGS: THAT YOU ABTAIN FROM THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS, AND FROM BLOOD, AND FROM THINGS STRANGLED, AND FROM FORNIFICATION; FROM SUCH THINGS KEEP YOURSELVES, YOU SHALL DO WELL. fare ye well. acts 15:1-29

Excellent scriptural quote.

 

[benidict]

Excellent scriptural quote.

St. Luke did have a very good knack for writing down what was necessary. didnt he?

 

[benidict]

IF YE FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES:THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, YOU DO WELL. but if you have respect of persons you commit sin, being reproved by the law as transgressors. And whosoever shall keep the whole law, BUT OFFEND AT ONE POINT, IS BECOME GUILTY OF ALL. for he said, thou shalt not commint adultry, said also, Thou shalt not kill. Now if thou do not commit adultry, but shalt kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. SO SPEAK YE, AND SO DO, AS BEING TO BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY. FOR JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY TO HIM THAT HATH NOT DONE MERCY. AND MERCY EXALTETH ITSELF ABOVE JUDGEMENT. james 2:8-13

 

[benidict]

And the scribes and the pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultry: and they set her in the midst. And said unto Him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultry. NOW MOSES IN THE LAW COMMANDED US TO STONE SUCH A ONE. BUT WHAT SAYEST THOU? And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. but Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: HE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN AMONG YOU, LET HIM CAST THE FIRST STONE AT HER. and again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.And they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning with the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee? Who said: NO MAN LORD, AND JESUS SAID: NEITHER WILL I CONDEMN THEE, GO AND SIN NO MORE. john 8:3-11

 

[Javl]

Richard:

As I have said before, I’ll say again, and will keep saying it: *** WE CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER ANY OBLIGATION OF THE LAW THAT WAS GIVEN TO THE JEWS!!! ***. Whether you believe it or not, this is what was taught by Jesus and the Apostles. He gave us a NEW LAW and a NEW and EVERLASTING COVENANT. He fulfilled ( and completed ) the old law which was/is for the Jews alone. The old law made sin recognizeable. By keeping the new law, we should/can not sin. Those that live by the old law will be judged by the old law, all 600+ commandments. The old law does not consist only of the decalogue, but all those ( plus variations ) that are listed in scripture.

Since you ( and the SDA ) insist on keeping the old law, then keep it ALL, not just what you think is important. All were given by God and any one alone is as important as the next one. There is NO distinction in importance from one to the other,

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[benidict]

Richard:

As I have said before, I’ll say again, and will keep saying it: *** WE CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER ANY OBLIGATION OF THE LAW THAT WAS GIVEN TO THE JEWS!!! ***. Whether you believe it or not, this is what was taught by Jesus and the Apostles. He gave us a NEW LAW and a NEW and EVERLASTING COVENANT. He fulfilled ( and completed ) the old law which was/is for the Jews alone. The old law made sin recognizeable. By keeping the new law, we should/can not sin. Those that live by the old law will be judged by the old law, all 600+ commandments. The old law does not consist only of the decalogue, but all those ( plus variations ) that are listed in scripture.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

AMEN! AND AGAIN I SAY AMEN! wait until we get to galatians Peace and Grace be to you

 

[benidict]

Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the SCRIPTURES MIGHT BE FULFILLED, said: i thirst. Now there was a vessel set there full of vinegar, And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar about hyssop, put it to his mouth. Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: IT IS CONSUMMATED. and bowing his head, he gave up the ghost. john 19:28-30

 

[benidict]

And i live, now not i; but Christ liveth in me. And that i live now in the flesh: I live in faith of the Son of God, who Loved me,and DELIVERED HIMSELF FOR ME. I CAST NOT AWAY THE GRACE OF GOD. FOR IF JUSTICE BE BY THE LAW, THEN CHRIST DIED IN VAIN.
galations 2:20-21 much to be said from galations by the way. we are not even near done.

 

[benidict]

Lord, take all my freedom. Accept my memory, my understanding, and my will. You have given me all that i have or hold dear. I return it to you, that it may be governed by YOUR will.Give me only your grace and the gift of loving you, and I will be rich enough; i will ask for nothing more. amen. oblatio sui

 

[benidict]

Catholics fabricating original sin.
For by a man came death, and by a man the ressurection of the dead.
AND AS IN ADAM ALL DIE, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.
1 corinthians 15: 21-22. yep, Catholic apostolic fabrication. agreed

 

[me_again]

IF YE FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES:THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, YOU DO WELL. but if you have respect of persons you commit sin, being reproved by the law as transgressors. And whosoever shall keep the whole law, BUT OFFEND AT ONE POINT, IS BECOME GUILTY OF ALL. for he said, thou shalt not commint adultry, said also, Thou shalt not kill. Now if thou do not commit adultry, but shalt kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. SO SPEAK YE, AND SO DO, AS BEING TO BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY. FOR JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY TO HIM THAT HATH NOT DONE MERCY. AND MERCY EXALTETH ITSELF ABOVE JUDGEMENT. james 2:8-13

Ah yes, the law of liberty.

And the scribes and the pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultry: and they set her in the midst. And said unto Him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultry. NOW MOSES IN THE LAW COMMANDED US TO STONE SUCH A ONE. BUT WHAT SAYEST THOU? And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. but Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: HE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN AMONG YOU, LET HIM CAST THE FIRST STONE AT HER. and again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.And they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning with the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee? Who said: NO MAN LORD, AND JESUS SAID: NEITHER WILL I CONDEMN THEE, GO AND SIN NO MORE. john 8:3-11

No offense is intended, but you’re more intelligent than what I previously surmised!!! Kudos! :tiphat:

 

[benidict]

Ah yes, the law of liberty.

No offense is intended, but you’re more intelligent than what I previously surmised!!! Kudos! :tiphat:

thank you my friend, but no, i am not intelligent. only have high school education. im not one of the learned. just a former trucker, and a soldier. who loves the Church and the Word. and if we add an s to the the Word, it becomes a Sword:thumbsup: Peace and Grace to you. and no offence taken.

 

[me_again]

thank you my friend, but no, i am not intelligent. only have high school education. im not one of the learned. just a former trucker, and a soldier. who loves the Church and the Word.

I’m not intelligent, but I do have a bunch of letters after my name. lol :hey_bud:

and if we add an s to the the Word, it becomes a Sword:thumbsup:

Whoa, I can’t believe that I’ve never heard that one!!! That’s a keeper! shaw:

 

[benidict]

I’m not intelligent, but I do have a bunch of letters after my name. lol :hey_bud:

Whoa, I can’t believe that I’ve never heard that one!!! That’s a keeper! shaw:

i really cannot take credit for the s-word thing. it was given to me by a very good Jewish friend. peace

 

[benidict]

oh yes, the Jews…For i would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this MYSTERY, (LEST YOU SHOULD BE WISE IN YOUR OWN CONCEITS), THAT BLINDNESS IN PART HAS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES SHOULD COME IN. AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHOULD BE SAVED, AS IT IS WRITTEN: THERE SHALL COME OUT OF SION, HE THAT SHALL DELIVER, AND SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB. AND THIS IS TO THEM MY COVENANT: WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS. romans 11:25-27, we shall look deeper into this as time goes on i should think. the Jews do have a future with their Creator. Peace