Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[Richard_Kastner]

The covenant given in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is for the Jews alone. The new Law and covenant given by Jesus Christ:

The new law: Matthew 22:38-40

The new covenant: Luke 22:20

If you disagree with this then you disagree with the early Church fathers, for this is what they understood.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Well, I guess we will have to disagree then. Let’s take a look at the scriptures first.

Matt22
34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So right off the bat we see that a Pharisee lawyer asks Jesus “36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?” He asks which** IS** the great commandment. Indicating that the commandment had already been given. Jesus answers “38This IS the first and great commandment.” This is an indication that He is quoting a law already in place, which would make them not new at all and when we look in the OLD TESTAMENT sure enough.

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

And Jesus Himself says “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” So, far from displacing the law Jesus is affirming that all the law that He Himself has given is based on these two principles. Love God and love your nieghbour.

I’m sorry Javl but I just don’t see anything in this v.
Luke22
20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
that tells me that the ten commandments have been done away with.

Ok, let’s go to Heb. ch.8
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

It is emphasised once again that the earthly priesthood is but a shadow of Christ’s perfect heavenly sanctuary. Now we see Jesus’ heavenly ministry is once again brought up
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant,
Ok, now we see the better (new) covenant brought up. We need to ask. Is this talking about the ten commandments? Well look what it says next which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
I guess we really need to find out what this covenant is that is being talked about here in Heb.8:7 It says there was a fault with this first covenant. Well the ten commandments were spoken by the mouth of God and written by His own finger. Could there possibly be anything wrong with anything given in such a manner? Absolutely not. So this must be talking about another covenant. One that is made by the mouth of man. Well, low and behold the next v. tells us 8 For finding fault with them, he saith,
Finding “fault with them” The weakness of the first covenant was not in the covenant itself; nor did the fault lie in God. It was the people who were faulty

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
So God wants to make a new covenant with the house of Israel. Why? BECAUSE THEY BROKE THE OLD COVENANT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Ok, Javl you really need to pay attention here. What do we see next here in Heb8 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. This is a direct quote of Jeramiah 31 Ok, then we see this.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The old covenant here talked about is the covenant based on bad promises.
Deu.5
27Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.

Did they do it? So, the covenant based on better promises is not the covenant that God made with the House of Israel. Which covenant they brake. But the new covenant is with one man that takes the place of the house of Israel. That one man is Jesus.

 

[benidict]

It has been said that Moses has also been resurrected. The devil argued with St. Michael over the bones of Moses in the book of Jude.

< shudder >

That sort of stuff gives me the ebee geebees. Why not just bury them since they’re dead?

i see where this would do that.lol! as javl said though, it is a testamony to how close she was to God. and a vindication of her message to us. as far as moses is concerned. remember that when Jesus died, it states that people were resurrected, and were seen in the city. was moses one of them? i think mention would have been made. as far as the story jude. i think this was for burial purposes. remember, that God buried Moses. and the people could not find where. because of his disobedience with striking the rock, the devil probably figured he had ownership. not Church teaching. just a theory. that would be an excellent question for a Priest. but we do have elija and enoch being translated. how hard would it be for Mary to fall asleep, be resurrected and assumed? furthermore, we know somewhat where the grave of the apostles are. but as important as she is. where is her grave? there is none… peace

 

[me_again]

it is a testamony to how close she was to God. and a vindication of her message to us.

That’s a good point. I did a little bit of internet reading on her and noted that when the apparition told her to drink some of the spring water, she bent down and got her face all muddy in trying to do so – and then she looked up at the people. So here we have this young girl with mud on her face – and the people began shouting, “She’s a fraud.” The visualization of the entire thing made me laugh, not in disrespect, but in seeing a little girl with a smile on her face with mud all over her face. The image must certainly have made the people think that she was just a simpleton little girl.

as far as moses is concerned. remember that when Jesus died, it states that people were resurrected, and were seen in the city. was moses one of them? i think mention would have been made.

Good question. However, prior to that particular resurrection (the one that occurred after Jesus died on the cross when there was a great earthquake and many people who were dead were seen roaming the streets of Jerusalem), Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of transfiguration. Was Moses in a resurrected glorified state at the mount of transfiguration – or was he still waiting for his resurrection? I speculate that he was resurrected.

we do have elija and enoch being translated.

Enoch and Elijah are the only recorded cases of humans who have never died but, instead, were translated into glorified bodies!!! I also noticed that in the book of Revelation, there are two witnesses who preach to the world before Christ returns to the earth. Are these two witnesses Enoch and Elijah? Again, just thinking out loud…

 

[rinnie]

Regarding Mother Mary, are you saying that she died a mortal death – and was then resurrected?

According to the teachings of the Church it has never been formally defined rather she died or not. All we know is she was assumed into heaven by the Powrer of God, but we do believe that she did die

In Munificentissimus Deus (1950) It is defined that Mary after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven. I have a meeting tonight, will see if I can get a answer from the Priest if I have time.

But remember we do not believe in death we believe in eternal life in Christ. But as far as her human body I was always taught asleep in Christ which could be death to her human body. I will try to get a more clearer answer for you.

 

[benidict]

That’s a good point. I did a little bit of internet reading on her and noted that when the apparition told her to drink some of the spring water, she bent down and got her face all muddy in trying to do so – and then she looked up at the people. So here we have this young girl with mud on her face – and the people began shouting, “She’s a fraud.” The visualization of the entire thing made me laugh, not in disrespect, but in seeing a little girl with a smile on her face with mud all over her face. The image must certainly have made the people think that she was just a simpleton little girl.

Good question. However, prior to that particular resurrection (the one that occurred after Jesus died on the cross when there was a great earthquake and many people who were dead were seen roaming the streets of Jerusalem), Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of transfiguration. Was Moses in a resurrected glorified state at the mount of transfiguration – or was he still waiting for his resurrection? I speculate that he was resurrected.

Enoch and Elijah are the only recorded cases of humans who have never died but, instead, were translated into glorified bodies!!! I also noticed that in the book of Revelation, there are two witnesses who preach to the world before Christ returns to the earth. Are these two witnesses Enoch and Elijah? Again, just thinking out loud…

ive had a chance to read portions of the talmud over the years, and some of the zohar “the Jewish book of enlightenment” also the Church fathers. never have seen anything about the ressurection of Moses. however, jude did quote this out of the assumption of Moses. so it is interesting to speculate on this. if we are to take the book of revelation literaly on the part of the two witnesses, i have often spectulated as you have that it would be Enoch and Elijah. for it is appointed once for man to die, and then face the judgement. they have not died yet. both interesting points. this could start us into a whole new thread about the doctrine of soul sleep. and what happens when we die. Peace

 

[benidict]

According to the teachings of the Church it has never been formally defined rather she died or not. All we know is she was assumed into heaven by the Powrer of God, but we do believe that she did die

In Munificentissimus Deus (1950) It is defined that Mary after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven. I have a meeting tonight, will see if I can get a answer from the Priest if I have time.

But remember we do not believe in death we believe in eternal life in Christ. But as far as her human body I was always taught asleep in Christ which could be death to her human body. I will try to get a more clearer answer for you.

thank you rinnie. this would be very benificial. and yes, he is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Peace

 

[Javl]

Richard:

2Corinthians 3:6

He has given us the competence to be ministers of a new covenant, a covenant which is not of written letters, but of the Spirit; for the written letters kill, but the Spirit gives life.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

ive had a chance to read portions of the talmud over the years, and some of the zohar “the Jewish book of enlightenment” also the Church fathers. never have seen anything about the ressurection of Moses. however, jude did quote this out of the assumption of Moses. so it is interesting to speculate on this. if we are to take the book of revelation literaly on the part of the two witnesses, i have often spectulated as you have that it would be Enoch and Elijah. for it is appointed once for man to die, and then face the judgement. they have not died yet. both interesting points. this could start us into a whole new thread about the doctrine of soul sleep. and what happens when we die. Peace

There is much literature covering this. Also, there is no such thing as “soul sleep”. This is a mis-interpretation of scripture by the SDA ( similar to that of the Jehovahs Witnesses ).

Besides the Talmud, there is the Tanakh which includes the Talmud. It is the Jewish canon. Read “The Writings of Josephus” and that of Dio, Pliny the Younger, Philo, and others who have compiled a history of Judaism and the Law.

God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom HaMeshiac

 

[benidict]

There is much literature covering this. Also, there is no such thing as “soul sleep”. This is a mis-interpretation of scripture by the SDA ( similar to that of the Jehovahs Witnesses ).

Besides the Talmud, there is the Tanakh which includes the Talmud. It is the Jewish canon. Read “The Writings of Josephus” and that of Dio, Pliny the Younger, Philo, and others who have compiled a history of Judaism and the Law.

God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom HaMeshiac

have read josephus. he actually in his appendix adress the state of the soul after death, and it seems, some of the Jews at least subscribed to a type of purgatory. so this is not a Catholic invention as some suppose. also have a copy of the Jewish tanakh. it is interesting to see the difference between our old testament, and their translation. i do not ascribe to soul sleep either, too much evidence biblically, and traditionally, and expireriencally to believe. Peace

 

[me_again]

if we are to take the book of revelation literaly on the part of the two witnesses, i have often spectulated as you have that it would be Enoch and Elijah.** for it is appointed once for man to die, and then face the judgement. they have not died yet.** both interesting points.

I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one that has had that cross my mind. You’re right**:** the bible says that it is appointed unto man to die – and neither Enoch nor Elijah has died yet – so it made me wonder if they could be the two witnesses in Revelation. I could be off by a long-shot, but the thought lingers.

 

[me_again]

this could start us into a whole new thread about the doctrine of soul sleep. and what happens when we die.

I know for a FACT that when we die, we do NOT “cease to exist” until the resurrection or, as the SDAs and JWs call it**:** “soulsleep.”

Javi is correct in that soulsleep is a false interpretation of of what happens to the soul at death. The SDAs teach that the concept of consciousness after the mortal body dies is a lie from the devil from when he tempted Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden e.g. surely you shall not die.

How do I know that the concept of consciousness after death is from the Lord? Thanks for asking!!! :bowdown2:

The reason I know is because the Lord Jesus Christ said that after Lazarius and the rich man died, they had consciousness after death. Christ Himself provided this theology.

 

[benidict]

I know for a FACT that when we die, we do NOT “cease to exist” until the resurrection or, as the SDAs and JWs call it**:** “soulsleep.”

Javi is correct in that soulsleep is a false interpretation of of what happens to the soul at death. The SDAs teach that the concept of consciousness after the mortal body dies is a lie from the devil from when he tempted Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden e.g. surely you shall not die.

How do I know that the concept of consciousness after death is from the Lord? Thanks for asking!!! :bowdown2:

The reason I know is because the Lord Jesus Christ said that after Lazarius and the rich man died, they had consciousness after death. Christ Himself provided this theology.

how about yourself me again. do you have any personal experience in reguard to this? a near death experience perhaps? i know a woman who did, and she told me the most wonderful first hand account. it is also written that eternity has been placed in mans heart. we know deep inside, that it is not the end, when we stop breathing. and that something goes on between the death of the body, and the resurrection of the body. all the biblical, theological, historical, data teaches us this, and that the early Church believed this also. look at peter, when he appeared at the door, after his release by the angel from prison. they thought it was his angel, or spirit. fascinating. Peace

 

[benidict]

I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one that has had that cross my mind. You’re right**:** the bible says that it is appointed unto man to die – and neither Enoch nor Elijah has died yet – so it made me wonder if they could be the two witnesses in Revelation. I could be off by a long-shot, but the thought lingers.

its just a thought. but we know that before Christ returns 2 things will happen. the world will see a time of trouble that has never been seen before. and the Jewish people must say Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord. in other words, they will come to see Jesus as their messiah. just speculation on my part. but if this were to happen, it would stand to reason, that 2 Prophets that have been long absent, could very well facilitate this. could you imagine? Jews and Christians united under one banner? that would unleash the powers of hell, and usher in the second coming. again, just speculation, not much in Church teaching on these things, and i would not presume to know more than the Church. just my own private musings. and in this area, i reserver the right to be wrong, big time. peace

 

[me_again]

it is also written that eternity has been placed in mans heart.

I became an athiest – and a fool – because the bible says that “The fool hath said in his heart there is no God.” Now I’m a fool for Christ.

how about yourself me again. do you have any personal experience in reguard to this? a near death experience perhaps? i know a woman who did, and she told me the most wonderful first hand account.

I’m glad that your friend went to the good side when she died. I did not.

Without going into explicit details, I committed suicide at the age of 17 many years ago, believing that I would “cease to exist.” Instead, I found myself falling down a long, dark, damp shaft with about a 10’ diameter. My mortal body was above on the earth, but the spirit or soul part of me was falling down the shaft. I could feel the cool breeze of the damp air passing by my face as I fell downwards.

The entrance to the shaft is at the top of the earth and the exit is somewhere in the bowels of the earth. I don’t know how long the shaft is. However, the shaft has an exit, which enters into the center of the earth, which is where the current hell is. It’s not the lake of fire. That’s for the near future. Since the encounter, I’ve read of other people’s similar experiences. One such person was shown by the Lord that there are shafts like that all around the planet, where people routinely go down into hell at death.

Anyways, as I fell, I was told that once I exited the tunnel, then that’s it for all eternity. Words cannot express the horror of realizing that one will be cut-off from hope forever. I do not have the ability to bestow upon you the stark raving terror of this realization. And I pray you never have to experience it, unless it would help you to draw souls to Christ – and away from that dark hell hole. As I fell downwards ever closer towards the exit hole into hell, I suddenly began screaming, “Lord! Lord! I know you’re real now!!! Please give me a second chance!!!” whereupon POOF I suddenly found myself back in my body before I could exit the bottom of the tunnel. In foolish disbelief, I mumbled out loud, “Boy, what a dream” whereupon POOF the Lord instantly put me back into the tunnel, falling downwards [again]. The same realizations were known again. I was again told that once I exited the tunnel, then that’s it for all eternity. For a second time, I screamed “Lord!!! Lord!!! I know You’re real now!!! Please give me a second chance!!!” whereupon I again found myself back in my body and, from that time until now, I have not been an atheist and I confess that there is a God. My experience is not adequately portrayed in this forum; and it is frankly impossible to adequately portray the gravity of it at a written forum like this.

About three years after that, I had a second experience that confirmed to me that I’m saved. It’s based on Romans 10:9-10. The experience happened outside of a church and I wasn’t a church-goer, but I frequently listened to Christian radio programs about the bible and salvation through Jesus. However, that particular experience shall remain confidential because it never yields any fruit when I share it – at least not yet. I’m not even sure it was wise for me to share this much. Each Christian must have his own encounter with Jesus on his own journey to Damascus.

 

[benidict]

I became an athiest – and a fool – because the bible says that “The fool hath said in his heart there is no God.” Now I’m a fool for Christ.

I’m glad that your friend went to the good side when she died. I did not.

Without going into explicit details, I committed suicide at the age of 17 many years ago, believing that I would “cease to exist.” Instead, I found myself falling down a long, dark, damp shaft with about a 10’ diameter. My mortal body was above on the earth, but the spirit or soul part of me was falling down the shaft. I could feel the cool breeze of the damp air passing by my face as I fell downwards.

The entrance to the shaft is at the top of the earth and the exit is somewhere in the bowels of the earth. I don’t know how long the shaft is. However, the shaft has an exit, which enters into the center of the earth, which is where the current hell is. It’s not the lake of fire. That’s for the near future. Since the encounter, I’ve read of other people’s similar experiences. One such person was shown by the Lord that there are shafts like that all around the planet, where people routinely go down into hell at death.

Anyways, as I fell, I was told that once I exited the tunnel, then that’s it for all eternity. Words cannot express the horror of realizing that one will be cut-off from hope forever. I do not have the ability to bestow upon you the stark raving terror of this realization. And I pray you never have to experience it, unless it would help you to draw souls to Christ – and away from that dark hell hole. As I fell downwards ever closer towards the exit hole into hell, I suddenly began screaming, “Lord! Lord! I know you’re real now!!! Please give me a second chance!!!” whereupon POOF I suddenly found myself back in my body before I could exit the bottom of the tunnel. In foolish disbelief, I mumbled out loud, “Boy, what a dream” whereupon POOF the Lord instantly put me back into the tunnel, falling downwards [again]. The same realizations were known again. I was again told that once I exited the tunnel, then that’s it for all eternity. For a second time, I screamed “Lord!!! Lord!!! I know You’re real now!!! Please give me a second chance!!!” whereupon I again found myself back in my body and, from that time until now, I have not been an atheist and I confess that there is a God. My experience is not adequately portrayed in this forum; and it is frankly impossible to adequately portray the gravity of it at a written forum like this.

About three years after that, I had a second experience that confirmed to me that I’m saved. It’s based on Romans 10:9-10. The experience happened outside of a church and I wasn’t a church-goer, but I frequently listened to Christian radio programs about the bible and salvation through Jesus. However, that particular experience shall remain confidential because it never yields any fruit when I share it – at least not yet. I’m not even sure it was wise for me to share this much. Each Christian must have his own encounter with Jesus on his own journey to Damascus.

what an awesome testamony. stay close to the Lord. continue to explore the Church. im sure you will find alot to like. i had a feeling you had an experience with near death. and i thank God you are where you are today. he is Merciful and Mighty. Peace and prayers for you.

 

[Javl]

I became an athiest – and a fool – because the bible says that “The fool hath said in his heart there is no God.” Now I’m a fool for Christ.

I’m glad that your friend went to the good side when she died. I did not.

Without going into explicit details, I committed suicide at the age of 17 many years ago, believing that I would “cease to exist.” Instead, I found myself falling down a long, dark, damp shaft with about a 10’ diameter. My mortal body was above on the earth, but the spirit or soul part of me was falling down the shaft. I could feel the cool breeze of the damp air passing by my face as I fell downwards.

The entrance to the shaft is at the top of the earth and the exit is somewhere in the bowels of the earth. I don’t know how long the shaft is. However, the shaft has an exit, which enters into the center of the earth, which is where the current hell is. It’s not the lake of fire. That’s for the near future. Since the encounter, I’ve read of other people’s similar experiences. One such person was shown by the Lord that there are shafts like that all around the planet, where people routinely go down into hell at death.

Anyways, as I fell, I was told that once I exited the tunnel, then that’s it for all eternity. Words cannot express the horror of realizing that one will be cut-off from hope forever. I do not have the ability to bestow upon you the stark raving terror of this realization. And I pray you never have to experience it, unless it would help you to draw souls to Christ – and away from that dark hell hole. As I fell downwards ever closer towards the exit hole into hell, I suddenly began screaming, “Lord! Lord! I know you’re real now!!! Please give me a second chance!!!” whereupon POOF I suddenly found myself back in my body before I could exit the bottom of the tunnel. In foolish disbelief, I mumbled out loud, “Boy, what a dream” whereupon POOF the Lord instantly put me back into the tunnel, falling downwards [again]. The same realizations were known again. I was again told that once I exited the tunnel, then that’s it for all eternity. For a second time, I screamed “Lord!!! Lord!!! I know You’re real now!!! Please give me a second chance!!!” whereupon I again found myself back in my body and, from that time until now, I have not been an atheist and I confess that there is a God. My experience is not adequately portrayed in this forum; and it is frankly impossible to adequately portray the gravity of it at a written forum like this.

About three years after that, I had a second experience that confirmed to me that I’m saved. It’s based on Romans 10:9-10. The experience happened outside of a church and I wasn’t a church-goer, but I frequently listened to Christian radio programs about the bible and salvation through Jesus. However, that particular experience shall remain confidential because it never yields any fruit when I share it – at least not yet. I’m not even sure it was wise for me to share this much. Each Christian must have his own encounter with Jesus on his own journey to Damascus.

I praise the Lord and am very happy for you for your conversion. I’m a revert. At one time I also embraced atheism and set out to prove there was no God and that it was all a sham made up to entice people to give their money and possesions to the “churches”. The more I delved into my research and theory, the more I learned about the truth. I ended up studying comparative religions and the more I studied the more amazed I became at my acceptance of religion as an actuality. From that point I concentrated on Christianity and again I was amazed that Jesus had shown me the truth, gave me the grace to believe and accept Him as God. By His grace, I am a deeply commited Catholic and nothing or anyone can shake my faith in the One Holy and Blessed Triune God.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[me_again]

i had a feeling you had an experience with near death.

No my friend, it wasn’t “near death.” It was death. There is a big difference. The Adventist in my city tried to say that it was a “near death” experience – and not a real experience. They say that all “near death” experiences are hallucinations from a lack of oxygen to the brain or malfunctioning brain chemicals.

In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus was not allowed to return to the land-of-the-living to tell his brothers about the reality of hell because “they will not believe you if you tell them. They have Moses and the prophets to learn from.” Today in the 21st Century, even if one returns from the dead, most will not believe it. :sad_yes:

Thank goodness that if we believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus with all our hearts, then we will be saved!!!

And yes, fruits will follow them that believe**…**

 

[Javl]

its just a thought. but we know that before Christ returns 2 things will happen. the world will see a time of trouble that has never been seen before. and the Jewish people must say Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord. in other words, they will come to see Jesus as their messiah. just speculation on my part. but if this were to happen, it would stand to reason, that 2 Prophets that have been long absent, could very well facilitate this. could you imagine? Jews and Christians united under one banner? that would unleash the powers of hell, and usher in the second coming. again, just speculation, not much in Church teaching on these things, and i would not presume to know more than the Church. just my own private musings. and in this area, i reserver the right to be wrong, big time. peace

FYI: Christianity is Judaism fulfilled and completed. We, Judaism and Christianity, are all under the one banner.

Please check the following: hebrewcatholic.org

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[benidict]

FYI: Christianity is Judaism fulfilled and completed. We, Judaism and Christianity, are all under the one banner.

Please check the following: hebrewcatholic.org

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

you do have a very good point. and i would have to say agree with it. i just dont know how to word it with the current separation that currently exist. i wrote out the Catechism answer to this earlier, and i think that it will have to suffice. but you are correct. we are one with them. peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

Quote:
2Corinthians 3:6

He has given us the competence to be ministers of a new covenant, a covenant which is not of written letters, but of the Spirit; for the written letters kill, but the Spirit gives life.
PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

2Cor.3
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Javl This does not say that the written letters kill, but that “the letter killeth”. You are confusing the actual writting of the law with this doctrine of the Judaizers. That being that we can only be saved by a ridgid adherance to the law and we know or should know that salvation comes to us in only one way. Through faith in Jesus. This certainly does not say that the law has been done away with. In fact v. 3 says the epistle of Christ is “written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” This is an obvious reference to Jeremiah 31: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. The letter that killeth is the idea that we can be saved by keeping the law written on stones without having it written on our hearts.