Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed...

[Joshua27]

sorry. thirty thousand denominations with no unity, seems like the broad and wide road to me…

Yes, but you’re grouping these denominations together in your eyes…they haven’t grouped themselves together as you have.

Just to clarify, my comment was to point out the two words James used (not to define Catholicism per say)…but if we do look at each denomination - each as a distinct, separate group from the next - Catholicism is by far the largest one of them all, even if all other denominations did combine together.

World-wide there are as many Catholics as there are Internet users, like 1.7billion or so…that’s a pretty big camp.

 

[Des]

You are very good at presenting your sect’s position.

At first glance anybody can appear like they know what they’re talking about when they attempt to overwhelm another with verse after verse as proof till you actually read slowly these ‘proofs’ that are put forth. Then it’s clear they are forced interpretations from their already preconceived doctrines or they’re simply being disingenuous.

Take this verse for example:

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,* and from one sabbath to another,** shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.*

Nowhere does that read that people worshiped ‘ON’ one Sabbath to the next but instead, it has the word ‘From’ one Sabbath to the next’ in there. Isaiah, a Sabbath keeper wrote this to other Sabbath keepers so he was merely talking in their language at the time and since the Sabbath was there main day of worship, it’s only logical he’d use it to pin point week to week.

It’s like saying that Catholics celebrate the Mass from Month to Month,Sunday to Sunday. It doesn’t mean we ONLY celebrate Mass on Sundays though does it as Richard is trying to make it say.

The “From Month to Month (New Moon)” line totally puts it all in context though.

I found this online and I believe it’s fairly accurate. Notice not once do we ever hear any sort of preaching against the Sabbath not being kept in the New Testament yet everything else was pretty much covered time and time again. Makes you wonder why something that is supposed to be so important in the Adventists eyes, makes the Apostles go mute in their preaching.

1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times

 

[Des]

Yes, but you’re grouping these denominations together in your eyes…they haven’t grouped themselves together as you have.

God’s flock shouldn’t be grouped together?

 

[JRKH]

I just want to point out something interesting about this comment as it relates to scripture:

Matthew 7:13] "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

…now before anyone attempts to accuse me of cherry-picking, the entire teaching that Christ is sharing (starting after Matthew 5:1) that leads up to his statement is talking about ‘seeking the kingdom of God’, which we know is NOT the church (as “the church” was ordained as the mechanism to spread the Gospel [good news] of the coming kingdom). So we can take the above verses as a universal statement as it relates to "the entrance-way or pathway to the kingdom of God".

James’ [JRKH] comment is interesting because he uses two words that are the exact synonyms of the words “Broad” and “Wide” when describing the Catholic Church: “Big” & “[all] Encompassing”.

Christ himself said that only a few find the narrow road and small gate that leads to life. The truth is a specific path that people can choose to follow (or not), and any “System” that allows people to worship God however they want (as you claim the Catholic Church would freely allow) is warned against.

---

This isn’t a shot against Catholicism, per say, but just be careful when using your description, always making sure it aligns with the word(s) of God.

Much of what you say is true above, in that those who find the “narrow gate” are not the ones belonging to a specific faith group, but those who truly, faithfully, and with their whole heart, seek the Kingdom of God. In this I agree wholeheartedly. The “saved” will come from a wide range of groups. Otherwise how could Christ say that, *“I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.” *(Mt 8:11-12)

No - What was refering to in mycomment about the Church being large and inclusive is that it encompasses many spiritualities. Her teachings are designed to guide rather than limit in many ways. As Chesterton put it, “The rules of the Church may be walls but they are walls around a playground” (or something like that).
The Church contains many spirualities ranging from the deeply personal and contemplative to the highly energized and communal Charismtic, all around a central core of Love and Faith in Christ and in His Teaching Church; that body which, as you point out, is charged with the protection and the spreading of the good news of the Kingdom.

Peace
James

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The everlasting Covenent is Love.
Mt 22:36-40 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, " YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

These vs. say nothing about a covenant.
Ex.31
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

However these do.

Let me ask you James. Do you consider yourself a member of the children of Israel? Because Jesus said Jn.4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Rom.2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

All else must be seen and read in the ligth of Love

Jn.14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Christ speaks to us of faith and of Love without regard to "Law when He says this:
Mt 8: 10 When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith. 11 **I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.” **

How is it that “many will come from east and west” and be admitted to the banquet - While “The sons of the kingdom (who kept the sabbath) will be thrown inot the outer darkness”.

First of all you make the statement. “The sons of the kingdom (who kept the sabbath) will be thrown inot the outer darkness” Now you have this in quotation marks meaning that it is a scriptural quote and indeed you do quote Matt. 8:12 above. However the second time you quote it you add the part in the parentheses. I felt it important to point out that scripture does not say that Sabbath keepers will be thrown into outer darkness. What Jesus is saying is the same thing Paul is saying in Rom.2 and that is it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or gentile. Your ethnicity makes no difference. What matters is whether or not you are circumcised of the heart, are a spiritual Jew, SEEK TO DO GOD’S WILL and not man’s. See Sabbath keeping is not about the day. What it is about is obedience to God.

Ge.2: 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex.208Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

These people coming from east and west, have not kept the sabbath even though they may have heard of it, surely the centurian had heard of the sabbath yet, as a Roman, he did not keep it.

The centurian after he met Jesus probably became a Christian and therefore probably kept the Sabbath. On “These people coming from east and west” I certainly am not saying that there will be no Sunday keepers in heaven. However, I believe that we will be judged by the light we have recieved and as Isaiah 66 points out. In the time just before Jesus return. Their will be a people that will proclaim more fervently the Sabbath message and it is quite clear that their will be no Sunday keepers in heaven.

Isaiah 66: 23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

We will be judged on our Love, not the day of the week we worship.

We will be judged by our works.

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

What are works?
Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Now as this points out we can’t be saved by keeping the law (only through faith in Jesus) but we can’t be saved if we don’t keep the law either.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Do you believe that St Francis of Assisi or Mother Theresa of Calcutta, two of the most Chrisitan and Loving people in our Christian History were not saved? Were not True followers of Christ? Were condemned to Hell because they went to mass on Sunday instead of on Saturday?

I’m not God. I can’t nor will I attempt to judge these people. That’s God’s jurisdiction.

But you are right. We are not communciating because we are not getting to the core issue of determining who is right and who is wrong and how to settle this between us.
What we require is an authority, wiser than we, who can lead us to what is True and Uniting. Without that Authority that can “bind and loose”, we are left seperated on two sides of a doctrinal fence.

The only authority we need is the infallible word of God. Yet you don’t seem willing to take God at His word.

You are very good at presenting your sect’s postion. You don’t seem to be as good at addressing things that don’t fit cleanly into your sect’s “proof texts”, like Mt 18 and the unifying authority it points to. You cannot seem to tell me for instance whether spreading false doctrine is sinful. This you refuse to answer. Why??

I did not say that I didn’t think that spreading false doctrine was not a sin. It may or in some cases may not. This may have been the case with the Judaizers in Galatians. Whose insistance that new Christians be circumcised before they can be baptised and whose case Paul brought before the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15. Actually I did or my commentary did give a fairly comprehensive exegesis of Matt 18 in post 88. I see no reason to go over it again.

If you feel the need to worship in Saturday, I wll not condemn you for it. Why? because in the larger scheme of things based upon the Law of Love, the day is unimportant.

When you say this, What you are in effect saying is that the blessing of God is unimportant. Gen2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. In the larger scheme of things based on the law of love. Jn.14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
The day is important. Why? BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. See James, it’s not about the day. It has never been about the day. When God said in the Garden that Adam and Eve could eat of all the trees but one. Do you think that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was different from a thousand other trees? Probably not. So what made it different? well the fact is that it was different BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. The Sabbath is like that. It’s no different than any other day. The only reason we should keep it is BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. What it is about is who we pay allegiance to. Do we bow down to God on the day that He says or do we pay allegiance to the CC on the day she says. I choose God

 

[Nicea325]

Richard:

**The only authority we need is the infallible word of God. Yet you don’t seem willing to take God at His word. **

Which always begs the question: Then are you following a church founded by a man/woman and not God?

How is that taking God’s Word at face value?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard:

**The only authority we need is the infallible word of God. Yet you don’t seem willing to take God at His word. **

Which always begs the question: Then are you following a church founded by a man/woman and not God?

How is that taking God’s Word at face value?

Revelation 12:17 (King James Version)
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I am a member of the church founded by Jesus Christ that keeps His commandments and has His testimony.

Is that really all you can come up with concerning my post?

 

[Joshua27]

To support RIchard’s point; let’s remember what God commanded of Abraham…

God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac - the one offspring Abraham has waited years to have through his baren wife - on the alter in obedience to God.

Of course we all know that God eventually provided a lamb for the sacrifice, but why did he ask it of Abraham in the first place?

Think about it: Why would God seemingly act so heartless as to make Abraham wait tens of years for his son and then suddenly ask Abraham to kill him as an act of obedience? Such seems so cruel, doesn’t it?

Know that God wants us to prove that we love him above all reason (wisdom), faith, tradition, thought, and comfort…so that we COMPLETELY rely on him for all reason, all faith, any of our traditions, any thought we’d possibly have, and all comfort.

THIS is why God (seemingly) makes us jump through “hoops” that are (in our minds) unnecessary, or that “don’t make sense”. This has always been his M.O. And God is ALWAYS the same, forever. He wants to see if our love for Him trumps (or better said, “transcends”) ALL conditions and understanding.

Of course, our logic dictates that it’s “silly” for any of us to be so hung up on a “particular day” of worshiping God when “worshiping God” is logically the most important factor in the whole equation…so we say things like, “as long as we’re worshiping God, right, what should it matter?” But the proof of our love is in worshiping God however God told us to; in whichever way He commands…such is obedience…such is true, unconditional love for Him.

I do not deny that many people here truely love God, but ask yourself whether that love is based on the conditions you’re accustomed to. What if God suddenly asked you to forsake ALL your religous customs? Would your love for Him be as strong? Is your love for him contingent on following your religion or following his specific commands?

 

[Javl]

Unfortunately, the Seventh Day Adventist church is one of the most anti-Catholic, if not the most anti-Catholic church around. I’m honestly not sure who would be considered worse: the independent fundamentalist Baptists or the Seventh Day Adventists.

I think the SDA Church is the worst of the two. But the members of the SDA church are not to be blamed. This is what they are taught and has been drilled into them. It is up to we Catholics to show them Christian charity and try to dispell all the lies, myths and mis-information that they have been taught.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[me_again]

Seventh Day Adventists say Catholics changed the Sabbath to Sunday and they go crazy on this… I found a website that says they are a cult. I have a best friend who is a Seventh Day Adventist so I really want to understand them but she goes crazy when ever we talk about it so it is hard to understand why she is sooo upset about things regarding Catholicism. I do know her husband was raised Catholic in Poland and supposedly became a 7th Day Adventist minister but he does not preach. She goes nuts about Mary acting like anybody did as much as she did. She is a good mother and expects her children to honor her but gives no respect to Mary. Her husband said if I knew all he knew I would realize the Catholic church is not correct in anything. He told me he would go to any priest if I went to any of his church in my area. For me if I had my choice for him to learn about Catholicism I would say Jeff Cavins I think his CDs and DVDs and workshops of Journey Thru the Bible and all the other studies explain it very well. Anyway I would like some feed back from people b/c it really bothers me the way they go crazy about things and when I have had their kids stay they say don’t go to the Catholic bible study classes like they are going to be poisoned…

The following SeventhDay Adventist (SDA) doctrinal pillars are false**:*** The 1844 Sanctuary Cleansing doctrine e.g. the correct notion that the Lord Jesus Christ entered heaven after His resurrection 2000 years ago, coupled with the false doctrine that He did not enter the heavenly “holy of holies” until the year 1844, whereupon He purportedly began judging the lives of the living and the dead in 1844 – and he has purportedly been doing so from 1844 until now → all according to the teachings of Ellen G. White, the founder of SeventhDay Adventism (SDA), who is now deceased.
.

• The Soulsleep doctrine e.g. the notion that**:**
  .

1. All humans temporarily cease-to-exist upon the mortal death of the body until resurrection day e.g. the SDA theology teaches that when the mortal body dies, the man, woman or child no longer has consciousness until their mortal bodies are resurrected.
   .
2. SDA doctrine teaches that when the mortal body of Jesus died on the cross, He ceased to exist until He was resurrected three days later. This theology is patently a false doctrine because the Lord and Creator of the universe cannot “cease to exist” and cannot “cease to have consciousness.”
   .

• The SDA Sabbath doctrine: Ellen White taught that just prior to the Second Coming of Jesus that anyone who worships God on the Jewish Saturday sabbath will be persecuted; and those who choose to attend church on Sunday in lieu of the Jewish Saturday sabbath have, by default, received the mark of the beast by**:**
  .
  
  (2) as demonstrated by their attending church on Sunday e.g. (the right hand) . .
  .
  (In the enclosed link, SDAs interpret “frontlets” as “mental assent” or a person’s mental choice to attend church on Saturday or Sunday; and they interpret the “right hand” as what a person actually does or, more specifically, whether a person attends church on Saturday with them or on Sunday with Protestant or Catholic churches).
  These wily interpretations of scriptures are demonic in origin and are heretical false doctrines that some Adventists have inadvertently fallen prey to. The devil created these false doctrines to create division.

**The sabbath issue garners the most attention, but one must dig deeper then that to unearth the origin of this false doctrine, such as examining the Sanctuary Cleansing doctrine of 1844 because from this false doctrine springs forth the entire Adventist denomination. The pillars of the Adventist denomination are built upon sand. **

The Adventist theologians vigorously fight for the Sanctuary Cleansing doctrine of 1844 because if it is discredited, then the entire foundation of the denomination is proven to be built upon heresy. Pastors’ salaries, denomination salaries, incoming SDA tithes and millions of dollars are now jeopardized. Peoples lives and livelihoods are now connected with maintaining these false doctrines. Once money becomes involved, the devil now has a stronghold.

I love the SDAs who love Jesus, but I hate the demonically inspired false doctrines of the SDA church.

 

[benidict]

Revelation 12:17 (King James Version)
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I am a member of the church founded by Jesus Christ that keeps His commandments and has His testimony.

Is that really all you can come up with concerning my post?

so are you saying the dragon is the Catholic Church then? one thing that always amazes me is how the the SDA does not take into account, how and why apocolyptic literature was written. such as daniel, and revelation. daniels emphasis, was on the empire founded by alexander the great, to the roman empire. he listed characteristics of the of the kings and personalities that would be around during that time. one of note is antiochus ephiphenas. who ruled apx 7 years. confirmed a covenant with the Jews, in the midst of the Covenant, he cut off the daily sacrifice, and set up the abomination of desolation. he spoke proud words, exalting himself above all gods including the Lord Of Host. he changed the times and the seasons, making it illegal to practice the sabbath, or even circumcision, or anything Jewish, under penalty of death. revelation was written during the time of nero, if im not mistaken. it was he, that John was pointing out as the anti-christ. the language of apocolyptic literature, ws a veiled message to the readers that they would have understood. the book of daniel and revelation were not written as a condemnation of the Roman Catholic Church. the Catholic Church is even prophecied in malichi 1:11. the SDA does not full fill this prophecy. only the Catholic Church, and its sister Church the Orthodox. who i believe will be reunited at some point. this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. not the SDA which came about 1843 years later. peace

 

[Richard_Kastner]

so are you saying the dragon is the Catholic Church then?

No, that is not what I am saying. The dragon is symbolic for Satan.

Rev.12
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

As for thew rest of your post it’s pretty much all baloney.

 

[Nicea325]

Revelation 12:17 (King James Version)
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I am a member of the church founded by Jesus Christ that keeps His commandments and has His testimony.

Is that really all you can come up with concerning my post?

And that is all you can provide? Biblical verses? And?

The SDA church founded by Jesus Christ? Are you joking? Apparently history is not your forte and that is okay,because it isn’t for most Protestants I enocunter.

Sorry to rain your parade,but the SDA is NOT the Church founded by Jesus Christ. The SDA was NOT founded by Jesus Christ or the Apostles…a FACT of HISTORY and LIFE!

You follow A church founded by mere mortals who had no such authority from Jesus.Thus, enlighten me how the SDA church keeps God’s commandments,when Jesus never founded it?

 

[benidict]

No, that is not what I am saying. The dragon is symbolic for Satan.

Rev.12
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

As for thew rest of your post it’s pretty much all baloney.

thank you for your kind response. the rest of my post is based on history. but of course, you woud rather subscribe to verses being taken out of context, the “visions” of a woman, who was hit in the face with a rock, who scientist now are researching to see if she suffered from partial complex seizure disorder. which by the way, can create some very vivid hallucinations, of a spiritual kind. my daughter suffers from this herself. if she ever starts having visions, ill run right out and start my own denomination. right after the next FAILED prophecy of Christ return.

 

[JRKH]

These vs. say nothing about a covenant.
Ex.31
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

However these do.

The commandment you speak of above - the Covenant. Was this not the covenant carved in letters on stone, which Moses came down with from the Mt Sinai?
if it is, then what is Paul refering to here?
2 Cor 3:6-11
6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses’ face because of its brightness, fading as this was, 8 will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendor? 9 For if there was splendor in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendor. 10 **Indeed, in this case, what once had splendor has come to have no splendor at all, because of the splendor that surpasses it. **11 For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor.
Indeed we also have St Luke’s account, echoed by Paul of the Last supper wherein Christ institutes a “New Covenant”.
Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1 Cor 11:25
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Christ then gives a New, Commandment.
John 13:34-35
“34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Let me ask you James. Do you consider yourself a member of the children of Israel? Because Jesus said Jn.4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Rom.2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I am a child of God and subject of the King of Heaven and Earth who is Jesus Christ. In this I am, as a Gentile brothers with the children of Isreal who kept the law of the Old covenant just as we keep the Law of Love which is the new convenant.

First of all you make the statement…
(Snip for space)
What matters is whether or not you are circumcised of the heart, are a spiritual Jew, SEEK TO DO GOD’S WILL and not man’s. See Sabbath keeping is not about the day. What it is about is obedience to God.

I wholeheartedly agree that it is about obedience. Obedience to God and to the authoriy that God has placed over us during our sojourn on earth.
That is why Christ Himself could justify the jews obeying the pharasees:
“all that they tell you, do and observe” because “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat”. (Matthew 23:2-3)
He told the faithful to obey the pharasees even though He was not happy with them or their holiness. Those who, in honesty and humility, obey those in lawful authority over them incur no sin. I obey that authority, in truth and humility, that Christ has placed over me. So, as you say it is not about “the day” it is about obedience to God.

The centurian after he met Jesus probably became a Christian and therefore probably kept the Sabbath.

Purely speculative and off point. Christ’s Love extended to one who did not keep the sabbath. One who said, "“Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof…”

On “These people coming from east and west” I certainly am not saying that there will be no Sunday keepers in heaven. However, I believe that we will be judged by the light we have recieved and as Isaiah 66 points out. In the time just before Jesus return. Their will be a people that will proclaim more fervently the Sabbath message and it is quite clear that their will be no Sunday keepers in heaven.

HUH???
So according to Isaiah, someone, will proclaim this, but yousay it isn’t you who are proclaiming it.

We will be judged by our works.
Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
What are works?
Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Now as this points out we can’t be saved by keeping the law (only through faith in Jesus) but we can’t be saved if we don’t keep the law either.

The greates Law of the New convenant as pointed out above is not that which is inscribed on stone but that which is written on the heart.
The root and source of ALL salvic works is LOVE. I refer you again to Mt 22:36-40

Peace
James

 

[KathleenGee]

As I shared earlier on another SDA thread, I have come to consider the SDA’s as having a particular ‘take’ on Jesus Christ…that limits Him to be delegated beneath the right of a particular day of Sabbath.

I think the real issue is Christology. There was a short discussion to get out of the loop and to step back and delve into the understanding and expanse of Who Christ is…

I and others had time issues and my eyes cannot tolerate too much now…so I had to pass.

But for those who can do it, I would recommend the catechism and our understanding of Christ, His mission, and HIs works that continue today…

 

[JRKH]

Do you believe that St Francis of Assisi or Mother Theresa of Calcutta, two of the most Chrisitan and Loving people in our Christian History were not saved? Were not True followers of Christ? Were condemned to Hell because they went to mass on Sunday instead of on Saturday?

I did not ask for you to judge. I asked your opinion.
In this post you say you will not judge and yet in the post just before this one you say this.
*On “These people coming from east and west” I certainly am not saying that there will be no Sunday keepers in heaven. However, I believe that we will be judged by the light we have recieved and as Isaiah 66 points out. In the time just before Jesus return. Their will be a people that will proclaim more fervently the Sabbath message and it is quite clear that their will be no Sunday keepers in heaven. *
So which is it. Will we “be judged by the light we received…”, or will there be, “No Sunday keepers in Heaven”, even if they kept Sunday in all faith and holiness?

Your words my friend.

The only authority we need is the infallible word of God. Yet you don’t seem willing to take God at His word.

Not at all. In fact I take God at His word even to the point of submitting my doubts to His uathoritative Church which He founded, gave authority and which Paul refers to as the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth.
What I do not “take at it’s word” is your interpretation of the bible which is flawed.

I did not say that I didn’t think that spreading false doctrine was not a sin. It may or in some cases may not. This may have been the case with the Judaizers in Galatians. Whose insistance that new Christians be circumcised before they can be baptised and whose case Paul brought before the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15. Actually I did or my commentary did give a fairly comprehensive exegesis of Matt 18 in post 88. I see no reason to go over it again.

Nor do I since you are already hedging on it.

When you say this, What you are in effect saying is that the blessing of God is unimportant. Gen2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. In the larger scheme of things based on the law of love. Jn.14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
The day is important. Why? BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. See James, it’s not about the day. It has never been about the day. When God said in the Garden that Adam and Eve could eat of all the trees but one. Do you think that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was different from a thousand other trees? Probably not. So what made it different? well the fact is that it was different BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. The Sabbath is like that. It’s no different than any other day. The only reason we should keep it is BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. What it is about is who we pay allegiance to. Do we bow down to God on the day that He says or do we pay allegiance to the CC on the day she says. I choose God

When I obey the CC, I obey God. Simple as that.
Because God placed her in authority over us. Simple as that.
Because God used her to assemble the written word into the bible you hold. Simple as that.

Now in closing. I have to say that, as intersting as this has been I am afraid I must withdraw from the discussion. I care full time for my wife who has Alzheimer’s disease and I cannot devote the kind of time necessary to properly research and respond to everything you post.
I appreciate the time you have given to me.

May God bless you on your journey.

Peace
James

 

[KathleenGee]

Richard,

I finished reading, ‘Fulfillment of All Desire’, and you should read it. It is about God being the only one who can fulfill all our desires.

Kathleen

 

[JRKH]

The only authority we need is the infallible word of God. Yet you don’t seem willing to take God at His word.

I’m back briefly - Had to ask…
You say above that the only authority we need is the infallible word of God.
Could you tell me what you believe that infallible word is??

I can tell you what the Bible says it is. It is Jesus. “In the beginning was the Word…” So the infallible word of God existed long before any “written words” were.

God then inspired men to write that which he wished to convey.
Now today we have the Bible. The collection of that Written word of divine inspiration.
But let me ask you this.
Which would be more important to have, the written word without the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit, without the written Word?

Obviously the answer must be the Spirit. Therefore, assuming you are refering to the bible as the “infallible word of God” then your statement is false, for without the proper spirit, the bible can be twisted to mean almost anything.

Peace
James