Seventh day adventists??

[Brooke]

Makes sense to stay with your kin, what you know, what you are comfortable with.

Yeah makes sense, but if everybody did this, there would only be ONE church, dnt ya think? nobody would hav ever left his Church

I am truly being ignorant here, not being a smart-alloc - besides Matthew 16:18-19, what other references are there to Christ establishing His church?
Now, I’m being a smart-alloc - is there anything that says go establish a theocracy and succession of power or is this merely a blessing bestowed upon Peter?

When Jesus sent the 72 apostles to the towns ahead of him, to which he was about to go to, he said to them,

*“He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” Luke 10:16.
*“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.” John 16:12.
This is Christ using the Church as his own body, endowing it with authority and guidance,

*"Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ " Matthew 13:24-30
and his promise that the Church, which would be comprimised of good and bad members,

*"Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:16-20
would exist until the end of the world.

*“If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ Ifhe refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
One can almost tell the amazement in his voice when he says “if he refuses to listen even to the church…” which goes to show that for someone to ignore the Church - his Church - would be the height of stupidity and foolishness. sadly many have done just exactly that…

*“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven”
He is saying here that all christians have the “light” to go and show, tach and preach his word to those that do not know it. Corporately, individual Christians make up the Church, so the Church itself is that city set on a hill, visible in all ages, for all to see and recognize.

John 13:20; 14:16-17, 26
John 18:18; 20:21-23
Matthew 10:40
Acts 9:31; 15:28-29
1 Corinthians 12:27-30
Titus 2:15
More?

continued…

 

[Brooke]

…continued

Anyway, for me it’s about having Christian fellowship. Not which church is right. SDA identifies itself as the remnant church mentioned in Revelation. I am uncomfortable with any kind of exclusivity like this.

not which church is right? well i guess the biggest point is loving Jesus and following him. but why not try to be in the right church? why not stop fighting agains all those religions and just seriously, with all the love God has provided everyone out there, look for his one and only Church? to be in peace with Him? wouldnt you want to make him happy? this would.

Besides, he very well said, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20
" Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

and who is this “someone” ?? would it be those who follow his Church and make it grow?? would his Church pass the “flames test”? will everyone elses??

Help us, Holy Spirit!!

 

[Brooke]

Hi Brooke,

I initially got hooked into SDA because of the culture - pacifism, vegetarian, freedom loving. It just fit my lifestyle so well.

it just fit? do you really believe since it just “fit” your lifestyle so well that that makes it alright?

I never cared for the mechanical/ceremonial aspects of Mass. The congregations seem too robotic… A tree can be known by the fruit it bares.
Maybe a more serious person would dissect the RC doctrine more and then present some challenges.

robotic congregations!!! that amazes me… i mean the gathering at least once a week to give thanks to God doesnt at all seem “robotic” to me… i see it necessary, joyful and i dont know just completely wonderful… mayb its need for the Holy Spirit… but how do i know? just a thought…?

by dissecting? you mean thoroughly taking part by part the Catholic doctrine and explaining it?

Blessings

 

[phummel]

I am in no way questioning the motives of your heart or conscience regarding why you keep Saturday…you must do what you believe is right and correct. I would also like to add that if you are basing your decsions on The Bible, I have posed some questions below that indicate that Adventist beliefs are not consistent with what is written in the Bible. I do like that you are willing to share so openly and lovingly!

Excellent point - the motivation is not law keeping, although it was the SDA church that brought me to this place.
You’ll find that I am a raving heretic! I don’t base my beliefs on sola scriptura but rather like Wesley’s approach - scripture, tradition, reason, and experience.

If you read the creation account in Genesis no where does God command or even request that Adam and Eve observe the Sabbath.
It is interesting to note that each of the six days before the seventh day are designated by the seperation of evening and morning constituting a day. There is no such designation on the seventh day. I have thoughts on why this is and if you are interested I would be glad to share them with you.
Nowhere in the Bible, for the next 10 or so generations of people is there any mention of the sabbath or God commanding or requesting anyone to keep the sabbath. It first show up during the time of Moses when the Hebrew slaves were being freed from Egypt.

Agreed, there is nothing explicit here but why did God rest?

Here is the Sabbath commandment in Deuteronomy 5:12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
There is a very interesting distinction made here regarding the sabbath and what is to be remembered.
In this version of the 10 commandments, the Sabbath day is to be observed, not remembered. Verse 15 gives the reason as to why God wanted the Hebrews to observe the Sabbath. It was because they were slaves in Egypt and the Lord God brought the out of slavery. In this commandment regarding the Sabbath, God commands them to remember that they were slaves whom He delieverd to freedom.
We today most certainly were not, are not, and most likely never will be slaves in Egypt. We all today, however, are or were, or could be in the future, slaves to sin and death. It is God once again who delivers us through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But Jesus does not command, anywhere in the New Testament, for us to observe or remember the sabbath because of this delieverance from sin and death. He does command us to remember Him and His sacrifice in the Lord’s Supper, which proclaims His sacrifice for us until He returns again.

Agreed. We talked about the Isrealites being freed from slavery as a foreshadowing of our salvation. I think you have expressed that nicely.

It’s wonderful to have you in these discussions. You bring valuable light and experience from both perspectives.

 

[Brooke]

For the record, we do praise the Virgin Mary and the saints. Just like we praise our children for their accomplishments or our mother or father for their virtues. We do not worship the Virgin Mary and the saints as God. Singing songs that praise Mary is no different than singing happy birthday to your friend or singing songs about America. You can praise something or someone without worshiping them.

Right! thats what i meant by this… sorry was typing fast wasnt thinking thoroughly =]

 

[Brooke]

Interesting, I never thought of work not existing before sin. I disagree based on Genesis 1:28:
Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.”

im sorry, i dont understand what you mean by i disagree and how that verse backs up your disagreement… explain please??

 

[Brooke]

Hello Brooke,

catholicity.elcore.net/SimonIsTheRock.html
Some Protestants, especially those of a more anti-Catholic bent, try to make hay out of the distinction between the Greek words petros and petra in the original written version of Matthew 16:18. Petros, they say, means “stone” or “piece of rock” or, even merely “pebble”; petra, on the other hand, they say means “large rock” or “boulder”. So, they conclude, the two words cannot refer to the same person or thing.
Moreover, they say (quite correctly) that petros is masculine and petra is feminine;
so, they conclude, the male Peter could not have been the referent of the feminine term.
And, therefore, Simon could not have been the Rock.

ok so if stone, piece of rock, pebble, large rock, and boulder ALL have some reference to an actual ROCK, how can the two words not refer to the same person or thing? its refering to a rock and simon is given the name peter merely because of the masculine term. so i still dont understand how Simon could not have been the Rock?

Personally, I think Christ was bestowing a special blessing on Peter. Put me in a room w/SDAs and all of sudden I put on my RC hat

haha, nice! =]
And i have previously cited verses that was telling how he bestowed his Church to the Disciples so i believe how his disciples organized and tended to the Church is the way to follow it.

 

[happilycatholic]

Hello happilycatholic,

Thanks for the encouragement.
Yes, I believe our soul is an attribute of the Creator and we have a soul too.
I believe God has an immortal soul but we do not. Similar to God being omnipresent, omnipotence, omniscient, infinite, etc - does not make us so.[qote]

God is the Holy Spirit and that is what makes Him omnipresent, omnipotent, etc. A soul is something joined to a human body. Hence we are made in the “image” of God as you said, not an exact duplicate. When God made Adam he breathed “life” into Adam. He gave him a soul as He does all humans. Can you tell me where in Scripture it tells us that our souls are not eternal or infinite?

For me, made in God’s image means we both seek love, fellowship, relationships. Good question - I never dwelled on this much.

It is no coincidence that God is three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We are distinctly three but one: Spirit, soul, and body. Even the Scriptures point this out.

We dispute the translation of Matt 25:46 - everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is “kolasin aionion”. The argument is with the word “aion”, which in Greek literature means “an indeterminate period of time”. This is primarily why I asked you about those synonyms because I sorta remember this word puzzle…

Okay, fair enough. But what about the other references to the eternal hell? Such as in Revelation and others? I can post them, but that would just take up space. I’m sure we both know what/where they are.

If you believe you have a soul then you believe it was created by God. Nothing created by God can be “annihilated” that means caused to cease in its existence or uncreated. Not even satan will enjoy that benefit. He will spend eternity in hell with those banished.

The other point made to me in my church is that the results and effects are everlasting not the punishment itself.

 

[phummel]

Hello Patrick!

(con’t) 2
I don’t know the statistics for sure, but my guess is, based on their agressive evangelization, that most Adventists might be converts. I could be wrong.

I buy that - the US is not the only country in the world.

Continuing with the establishment of The Church based on the words rock and stone:

Matt.:42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[a];
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’

1 Pet. 2:4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Thank you for the additional proof texts (humor).
I still have doubts about whether Christ would approve of the RC theocracy.
Even more so, I question [Saint] Augustine’s theory of a just war. It opened up too many doors for abuse. blah, blah, blah

The Adventist Church policy on abortion is not firm at all in favor of life. It cannot be considered pro-life at all. This is what first caused me to begin to question the consistency of Adventist teaching.

So true. I have a deep respect for the RC stance against abortion.
Since I believe in a God who gives us freedom to sin, I want to extend the same freedom to all my brothers and sisters.
However, abortion is so repugnant, it’s hard to defend that position in this instance.

 

[Brooke]

Hi Brooke! You already provided my short answer in one of your other posts on here…it is highlighted in red below.

I have posted, at ponderous length, in other threads on this forum many of the reasons as to why I joined the Catholic Church…but it would take too much time to find them, so I will try to be concise (pray for me:blush and hit the main reasons.

Like most protestants, I held great doubts about The Eucharist, and the real presence of Jesus Christ in The Eucharist. Personally, I my doubt was more of a repulsion at the idea of “a man” holding up a “piece of bread” and calling it Jesus. The few times I attended Mass with my family, I would hold my tongue, for the most part, but I would sit there and basically berate and curst the priest for the “blasphemy” I believed he was performing. My repulsion grew to anger, my anger grew to hate, and we all know how and where hate grows.

But then, I happened to be at a Mass where the priest gave a homily on The Eucharist. I told my wife when we left that if I were ever to believe the Eucharist it would be based on what that priest taught during his homily. Beginning to consider that I might be wrong in what I believed about The Eucharist, I began to consider that there might be something to it. Over the next two years I began to feel that if I were to be honest in my hatred of the Eucharist, I should at least make the attempt to understand it and not go by what I was taught and heard from other protestants. So after four or five years I happened to be at our local Catholic Book Store, and asked the lady working there if she had any books that would explain the Eucharist to a protestant. She thought I was Catholic and asked me if I thought my friend would like a little book or a big book. I told her it was for me and I would like the biggest book you’ve got. She gave me “The Hidden Manna: A Theology of the Eucharist” by Father James O’Conner.

I read it and was amazed at the early Church leader’s writings talking about the bread and wine actually be Jesus. This was the first time I had ever really read any of the early Church writings…and we’re talking 70-200AD. Fr. O’Conner then laid out the various protestant views of communion, very accurately I might add, so I kept reading, and it made sense. He dealt with adoration of The Blessed Sacrament and various issues with Mary, The Blessed Mother, which at that time I could just not comprehend or come to grips with. But from that moment on I believed The Eucharist.

Two years later, God’s providence led me to much prayer…much much prayer…and more study. I met with the priest whose homily I first heard that inspired me to find the Truth. I knew I was a Catholic in my heart. That was the spring of 2008. Easter had just passed. I read the entire Catechism of The Catholic Church, second edition, to make sure there was nothing in the official teaching of The Church that I disagreed with. There was nothing. Of course I did not understand some things, such as our relationship with Our Blessed Mother, but I accepted those things I did not understand on faith, and figured I have the rest of my life to study those things. In the Fall I entered a R.C.I.A. class, and at Easter Vigil this year, 2009, I was confirmed and received Jesus in the Eucharist for the first time. It was such a blessing to be so fully united with Jesus…it brings tears to my eyes now as I think of God’s mercy on me, a sinner, to lead me to this Glorious Truth in my lifetime.

One day during the summer of 2008 I was praying, and I felt this overwhelming impression that came into my mind to pray The Rosary. I went downstairs and asked my wife to teach me how to pray The Rosary. Once she recovered from passing out and got off the floor, she taught me and I have been praying it just about daily ever since.

I have spent much time in Eucharistic Adoration, and my understanding of, and relationship with, Our Blessed Mother keeps growing and is such a blessing. These things cannot be explained, but to those who share this experience, well, they understand. All I can say is that it is more intimate than the kiss shared with your spouse, and more real than the Sun shining brightly at mid day on a clear summer day.

All in all, that journey took about 30 years, with the past 14 years being my time of conversion. This is what I have desired from the time that I first gave my heart to Jesus. God is good and His mercy endures forever!

God bless all!!!

That is amazing.! Well im glad the Holy Spirit found you and led you to where you are today. hopefully many will find their way as well as you have, HOPEFULLY with your help. i know sombody very dear to me, and i have been battling with myself as to how to begin to explain to him the Catholic Church and to how to show him that it is indeed His Church. He is a Seventh-Day Adventist and i just do not know where to begin. Any advise? i was thinking maybe authority?? any help is appretiated!! thanks in advance.

May God bless us all as he has to this day.

 

[Brooke]

Patrick_Murebil:
Also Pat,

like i said, about really understanding the bible, the very own scripture tells us in Acts 8:26-31

"Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.” Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

How can people say they truly understand and know the scripture when its clear that everyone needs guidance in understanding what Our Savior said and meant throughout the bible??

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Excellent point - the motivation is not law keeping, although it was the SDA church that brought me to this place. You’ll find that I am a raving heretic!

Well I’m raving lunatic, so at least we have something halfway in common! Oh and by the way…I’m a Libertarian, holding many of the same convictions that I’m assessing you hold politically and socially…and know of other Catholic libertarians. Do a google search on Thomas E. Woods and read some of his essays…a very brilliant scholar. He wrote a really good book called “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization”…excellent work…but I’m digressing it appears…but that is consistent with the “raving” part of our psyches isn’t it?

I don’t base my beliefs on sola scriptura but rather like Wesley’s approach - scripture, tradition, reason, and experience.

Hmmmm…I like that approach…but it existed a long time before Wesley. I believe it started with an organization called…The Catholic Church!

Agreed, there is nothing explicit here but why did God rest?

***Genesis 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.***

God saw that all He had made was very good.

God’s vast array of creation was complete.

And at the end of creation God blessed the seventh day and made it holy. And isn’t that a wonderful way to begin eternity in His relationship with mankind!!!

And I think this is why the evening and morning phrase are glaringly left out of the seventh day. God created all and it was good, and now that all of creation was complete every day became the same glorious eternity with God. There was no need to rest one day a week and worship God because every day for all eterninty was spent in relationship with, and worship, of God in direct communion. Rest is a good thing, there is no weariness in Rest. Life and work with God in His perfect and complete creation, for man, is perfect Rest.

Jesus said in Matthew 11:28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Paul said in Hebrews 4:1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
"So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.” 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

You see Paul, when we are in Jesus, we are in His rest. And is that rest once a week on Saturday, or Sunday, or any other day of the week? No, that day is TODAY, which is every day, now that Jesus has redeemded a fallen sinful world back to the way it was meant to be in the beginning. Not just one day a week with God, but TODAY, the eternal 24/7 everyday.

That’s why days are not matters of salvation, and why we are not to judge or be judged according to days. It is not about days…It is about a person…Jesus Christ, God made man, and what He DID for us to restore us to that original Rest of God in the beginning before sin entered the world.

Do you remember as a Catholic kid the phrase “As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen”? That is God’s Rest…which is Paradise.

Agreed. We talked about the Isrealites being freed from slavery as a foreshadowing of our salvation. I think you have expressed that nicely.

And now that foreshadowing disappears as the bright Light of our salvation, Jesus Christ is here!!!

It’s wonderful to have you in these discussions. You bring valuable light and experience from both perspectives.

It is indeed an interesting position in which I find myself. I’m glad that you appreciate it. Thank you!

God bless all!!!

 

[happilycatholic]

This is totally off subject, but I have to tell somebody. I just learned how to multiquote!

Okay, I’m over that now.

 

[Brooke]

Yes they did work before sin entered the world…their work was rasing a family, tending the garden, and caring for the creation God gave to them. They did this every day. And as they did this every day, God was there with them in their midst. They were in paradise, living face to face with God for eternity. Each and every day they shared with God in His rest that declared all of His creation Good! Their work for eternity was sharing in God’s Rest!!! Sin changed the nature of work to anything but rest. Jesus restores us to God’s Rest!! Hebrews 3&4

hello pat,
i was wondering, how did they “work” as raising their family? [before sin entered the world, that is] if before sin it was only adam & eve, they had no kids yet. tending the garden? is this in the scripture? caring for the creation? all adam did was name the creaters didnt he?

i would love to hear just how you mean that they worked prior to sin. thx!

 

[Brooke]

This is totally off subject, but I have to tell somebody. I just learned how to multiquote!

Okay, I’m over that now.

hooray for u! i however have not.

 

[happilycatholic]

Hello happilycatholic,

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[happilycatholic]

hooray for u! i however have not.

I’ll PM you. It’s easy.

 

[jargon631]

hi brooke…i was sda for just short of 2 decades…my experience is specific to sda boarding school so i cant really adress how the church at large operates, but i’m sure that at least some of the data extrapolates…my disillusionment with the sda started at about age 15…i began to have some real problems with the apparant yawning gulf between what i was taught and what being a christian was supposed to entail…i have been a non-christian now for 28 years and i have the happy, unconfused and fullfilled life that i couldnt have as an adventist…take care…frederick

 

[Brooke]

hi brooke…i was sda for just short of 2 decades…my experience is specific to sda boarding school so i cant really adress how the church at large operates, but i’m sure that at least some of the data extrapolates…my disillusionment with the sda started at about age 15…i began to have some real problems with the apparant yawning gulf between what i was taught and what being a christian was supposed to entail…i have been a non-christian now for 28 years and i have the happy, unconfused and fullfilled life that i couldnt have as an adventist…take care…frederick

so u are non christian non adventist. none period? dont you feel you are mising something? if not, would you have joined this forum? where you know most all that goes on here is talk about your Savior???
awaiting your response…

 

[phummel]

…continued
not which church is right? well i guess the biggest point is loving Jesus and following him. but why not try to be in the right church? …
1 Corinthians 3:18-20
1 Corinthians 3:10-15

Brooke, thank you for your response. I think you give a beautiful testimony for your church. I hope you see that I am your brother in Christ.
The verses you chose are very appropriate.
It is not me or my works or wisdom but just allowing the Holy Spirit to work through me.
I pray that Christ can be reflected from me and not be blocked by me. I pray to stay humble.

it just fit? do you really believe since it just “fit” your lifestyle so well that that makes it alright?

These weren’t some flippant likes and dislikes - this was the morality I had after 40 years of life. It was good to find that there was a church that shared values that I happened upon. It made me think, I might be in harmony with His will.
Now with the Holy Spirit and the Bible, I try to strengthen my moral foundation and grow in Christ.

robotic congregations!!! that amazes me… i mean the gathering at least once a week to give thanks to God doesnt at all seem “robotic” to me… i see it necessary, joyful and i dont know just completely wonderful… mayb its need for the Holy Spirit… but how do i know? just a thought…?

Hey, no offense meant - we all have different experiences.
I have been tickled by everyone I have met in this thread. I would love to share worship with all of you - praise God!

by dissecting? you mean thoroughly taking part by part the Catholic doctrine and explaining it?

yes

im sorry, i dont understand what you mean by i disagree and how that verse backs up your disagreement… explain please??

I was implying that ‘govern’ and ‘reign’ were forms of work. Not important…

ok so if stone, piece of rock, pebble, large rock, and boulder ALL have some reference to an actual ROCK, how can the two words not refer to the same person or thing? its refering to a rock and simon is given the name peter merely because of the masculine term. so i still dont understand how Simon could not have been the Rock?

haha, nice! =]
And i have previously cited verses that was telling how he bestowed his Church to the Disciples so i believe how his disciples organized and tended to the Church is the way to follow it.

I just wanted to share how some folks think differently. No defense here.
I have a rock, paper, and sissors - pick one.
Thank you for elaborating on your cited verses - I like the way you think.