Seventh Day Adventists

[Marsha_Adams]

Without Calvary, you can’t be saved; without Eucharist, you can be saved. (Heb 9:22, 28)

Again you call Jesus a liar. John 6: 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

You really need to stop doing that.

 

[Protestant101]

Hi P101,

I find it exremely amazing for a Seventh-day Adventist - especially a Seventh-day Adventist - to take a command from God to REMEMBER, and call it symbolic…especially when what Jesus is asking us to remember is Him…unless you do not wish to interpret HIM as literal.

God bless all!!!

I would also add Patrick, to this comment, that perhaps you should reconsider some of your stereotyping of Adventists. While there are both anti-Adventists, and former Adventists; thankfully, you seem to be a former Adventist; both seem to become entrenched in such stereo typing, and this one is not based on fact at all.

 

[Protestant101]

Again you call Jesus a liar. John 6: 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

You really need to stop doing that.

Nice internet yelling again “friend.” But perhaps when we look at who is calling Jesus a liar, we can consider who is saying that Jesus cannot save me, (give me life) unless I think just as you say I should. I gave an example above, to explain what I am talking about, and the great parade of former and anti Adventist rhetoric has entirely ignored this touching story of God’s love in action, of His saving grace and real presence, with no bread, and no wine.

Both of these (bread and wine) are symbols of the shed blood of Jesus, which we can all look to, and have faith in, for that “life” that Jesus was talking about. His life, is His Word:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thankfully, we serve a Lord Who does not require us to have the same doctrines, to attain unto this “life,” as we also read in John chapter 6:

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

NOTE For Patrick: Adventist “Suprise” # 347

Adventists do not teach that a given Bible word would always have the same context, in all instances where it is used in the Bible. There are many places where a word can be used as symbolic, yet it can still be literal in other texts. Context is important to consider. Adventists have considered, in depth all the related texts which show clearly how the use of “remember” tells us that we need to remember something Jesus did. And that already happened on Calvary. It can’t happen again through anything we do.

 

[benidict]

You do know that SDAism is a pro-abortion cult don’t you? Several of us on Catholic Answers Forum were SDAs for many years. Personally I thank God daily for delivering me from SDAism and EGW. Please, please pray very hard before you reject Jesus and become an SDA.

WHy don’t you go visit the blog Seventh Day Adventist to Roman Catholic?

HI MARSHA. where do you get this garbage that sda is a pro abortion cult? every sda ive ever known have been pro life, and accept the trinitarian view of God. as a former baptist i can understand the strong feelings you have. but these attacks do nothing to fascilitate discussions with this group. you may get a lot further with the truth, rather than a slanderous comment like this. i also am glad i was delivered from protestantism. but im not going to attack the baptist with something that isnt true. there may be more like yourself who are looking into Catholicism, who just may be on the edge of making a decision, and comments like these will only push them away. your insight as to egw writings would be a huge help. such as the great controversy which names the Cathoic Church as the beast of revelation and that anyone who worships on sunday receives the mark of the beast. these would really help alot. but untrue attacks like the accusations you made,will not help. :nope:
LOVE IN CHRIST

 

[greggy53]

Without Calvary, you can’t be saved; without Eucharist, you can be saved. (Heb 9:22, 28)

What makes you so sure considering these words that Jesus himself spoke.
John6:54 “Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.”

 

[greggy53]

Correct my friend; they are used as “metaphor.”

Wrong, not within the context of the statements.

 

[DavidMark]

Bahá’u’lláh says the same thing to the Christians and Muslims.

O servants! Not every mortal frame hath a spirit or is imbued with life. In this day he is endowed with spirit who with all his heart seeketh the abode of the Beloved.(Tabernacle of Unity, p. 69)

**Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God is endowed with such potency as can instill new life into every human frame, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth. **( Gleanings, p. 141)

**He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. **(Gleanings, p. 168)

I am the one who is in misery, O God! Behold me cleaving fast to Thy Name, the All-Possessing. I am the one who is sure to perish; behold me clinging to Thy Name, the Imperishable. ( Baha’i Prayers, p. 26)

Question. – The Christ said: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die.”[1] What is the meaning of this utterance?
[1 Cf. John 6:51, 50.]

Answer. – This bread signifies the heavenly food and divine perfections. So, “If any man eateth of this bread” means if any man acquires heavenly bounty, receives the divine light, or partakes of Christ’s perfections, he thereby gains everlasting life. The blood also signifies the spirit of life and the divine perfections, the lordly splendor and eternal bounty. For all the members of the body gain vital substance from the circulation of the blood.
…It is evident that the bread of which the disciples ate and were filled was the heavenly bounty; for in verse 33 of the same chapter it is said: “For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” It is clear that the body of Christ did not descend from heaven, but it came from the womb of Mary; and that which descended from the heaven of God was the spirit of Christ. As the Jews thought that Christ spoke of His body, they made objections, for it is said in the 42nd verse of the same chapter: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”

Reflect how clear it is that what Christ meant by the heavenly bread was His spirit, His bounties, His perfections and His teachings; for it is said in the 63rd verse: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.” (Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 97)

 

[cides23]

Bahá’u’lláh says the same thing to the Christians and Muslims.

O servants! Not every mortal frame hath a spirit or is imbued with life. In this day he is endowed with spirit who with all his heart seeketh the abode of the Beloved.(Tabernacle of Unity, p. 69)

**Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God is endowed with such potency as can instill new life into every human frame, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth. **( Gleanings, p. 141)

**He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. **(Gleanings, p. 168)

I am the one who is in misery, O God! Behold me cleaving fast to Thy Name, the All-Possessing. I am the one who is sure to perish; behold me clinging to Thy Name, the Imperishable. ( Baha’i Prayers, p. 26)

Question. – The Christ said: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die.”[1] What is the meaning of this utterance?
[1 Cf. John 6:51, 50.]

Answer. – This bread signifies the heavenly food and divine perfections. So, “If any man eateth of this bread” means if any man acquires heavenly bounty, receives the divine light, or partakes of Christ’s perfections, he thereby gains everlasting life. The blood also signifies the spirit of life and the divine perfections, the lordly splendor and eternal bounty. For all the members of the body gain vital substance from the circulation of the blood.
…It is evident that the bread of which the disciples ate and were filled was the heavenly bounty; for in verse 33 of the same chapter it is said: “For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” It is clear that the body of Christ did not descend from heaven, but it came from the womb of Mary; and that which descended from the heaven of God was the spirit of Christ. As the Jews thought that Christ spoke of His body, they made objections, for it is said in the 42nd verse of the same chapter: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”

Reflect how clear it is that what Christ meant by the heavenly bread was His spirit, His bounties, His perfections and His teachings; for it is said in the 63rd verse: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.” (Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 97)

In the Old Testament the people offered up the sacrafice of Lamb and they ate of it. The new everlasting convenant and the true and only sacrafice is Christ on the Cross, and we too must eat of it. not in a cannabalistic way but he shows us the way by taking bread and wine and making present the day of calvary (that is what the rememberance means). Matthew Mark and Luke tells us of the Last supper on how we are to make Christ Sacrafice present. John 6 gives us the meaning of what we are partaking in. Jesus knew that the disciples were murmuring what he had said that we must eat his flesh and they said this is a hard saying. he never back down but infact used a word that means to chew, to gnaw on his flesh. it was hard for them to understand because they were thinking in the flesh hence that is why Christ said it is the Spirit that gives life the flesh profits nothing. we must believe and trust GOD in Spirit and in Truth and walk by faith. The flesh profits nothing cannot refer to Christ because if he is saying his Flesh profits nothing then him hanging on the Cross would profit nothing… and well that makes no sense. Also when he say his flesh is food indeed (he cannot then come back and say his flesh profits nothing). the best way to understand Christ’s words is to go back and read on what the first Christians taught on this subject, those Christians who were taught by the apostles or by those who taught other Christians who were taught by the apostles. it is like that game where we keep saying a message from one person to another, by the time it gets to the last person the message is all twisted… that is exactly how the protestants are… they have twisted this teaching on Christ. even Martin Luther does not teach what most protestant teach now on this meaning of Christ, so protestants are far from his teaching. The Holy Spirit has safe guarded the teachings of Christ through out history in the Catholic Church and well the teaching on the Eucharist is the same teaching on what was taught from Jesus words through 100ad - 2009

 

[cides23]

Nice internet yelling again “friend.” But perhaps when we look at who is calling Jesus a liar, we can consider who is saying that Jesus cannot save me, (give me life) unless I think just as you say I should. I gave an example above, to explain what I am talking about, and the great parade of former and anti Adventist rhetoric has entirely ignored this touching story of God’s love in action, of His saving grace and real presence, with no bread, and no wine.

Both of these (bread and wine) are symbols of the shed blood of Jesus, which we can all look to, and have faith in, for that “life” that Jesus was talking about. His life, is His Word:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thankfully, we serve a Lord Who does not require us to have the same doctrines, to attain unto this “life,” as we also read in John chapter 6:

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

**NOTE For Patrick: **Adventist “Suprise” # 347

Adventists do not teach that a given Bible word would always have the same context, in all instances where it is used in the Bible. There are many places where a word can be used as symbolic, yet it can still be literal in other texts. Context is important to consider. Adventists have considered, in depth all the related texts which show clearly how the use of “remember” tells us that we need to remember something Jesus did. And that already happened on Calvary. It can’t happen again through anything we do.

Adventists have considered, in depth all the related texts which show clearly how the use of “remember” tells us that we need to remember something Jesus did. And that already happened on Calvary. It can’t happen again through anything

a person can go in depth that 2 + 2 =5 but does not necessary means he is right… the same with the word REMEBERANCE. read it in the original language and the SDA will realize they are incorrect. The Holy Spirit cannot lie. If Christ promise that the HOLY SPIRIT will guide us into all truth then why for 1800 years this was the teaching until then all of a sudden when EGW came and started SDA the Holy Spirit corrected the teaching and now the correct meaning of rememberance is what the SDA teaches… either Jesus lied and the gates of hell prevailed against his church and the Holy Spirit did not guide the Christians the church into all truth or SDA is incorrect on the meaning of this teaching.

 

[greggy53]

For those who want to believe that the bread of life discourse, and all references afterward to it were symbolism, and or metaphor I can only offer how I personally came to believe otherwise. When Jesus said these thing in the gospel of John the disciples at that time did not understand them (along with many other things that had to happen). How can we eat his flesh and drink his blood? But later on Holy Thursday Jesus showed them how they would eat his flesh and drink his blood. He demonstrated this by repeating again what he had said to them before: This is my body, do this in remembrance of me. After his resurrection it became clear to the Apostles who led the Church and taught the miracle of the Eucharist. We know this because scripture tells us this. St Paul chastises the Corinthians for partaking unworthily of the body and blood. Indeed he states that those who partake unworthily are guilty of the Lords death.
1st Cor 11: 27 “Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.” St Paul is very clear in the 10th and 11th chapters about the nature of the Eucharist. It is most certainly not a “metaphor”.
There are also writings from the 1st century specifically St Ignatius of Antioch who wrote that heretics (Gnostics) should be shunned because they do not believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of our Lord. The Christian Church has accepted, taught and practiced this since the 1st century.
I know many have been told that the Church has suppressed “What the early Christians really believed”, but I have never been able to find any evidence for this. And if this is true then there must be some written evidence somewhere, or how would anyone know that it had been suppressed?

 

[greggy53]

For those who want to believe that the bread of life discourse, and all references afterward to it were symbolism, and or metaphor I can only offer how I personally came to believe otherwise. When Jesus said these thing in the gospel of John the disciples at that time did not understand them (along with many other things that had to happen). How can we eat his flesh and drink his blood? But later on Holy Thursday Jesus showed them how they would eat his flesh and drink his blood. He demonstrated this by repeating again what he had said to them before: This is my body, do this in remembrance of me. After his resurrection it became clear to the Apostles who led the Church and taught the miracle of the Eucharist. We know this because scripture tells us this. St Paul chastises the Corinthians for partaking unworthily of the body and blood. Indeed he states that those who partake unworthily are guilty of the Lords death. St Paul is very clear in the 10 and 11th chapters about the nature of the Eucharist. It is most certainly not a “metaphor”.
There are also writings from the 1st century specifically St Ignatius of Antioch who wrote that heretics should be shunned because they do not believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of our Lord.
From Wikipedia:
St Ignatius of Antioch: “They [the docetists] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes”. The letter is also the earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term “Catholic Church.”
I know many have been told that the Church has suppressed “What the early Christians really believed”, but I have never been able to find any evidence for this. And if this is true then there must be some written evidence somewhere, or how would anyone know that it had been suppressed?

 

[cides23]

For those who want to believe that the bread of life discourse, and all references afterward to it were symbolism, and or metaphor I can only offer how I personally came to believe otherwise. When Jesus said these thing in the gospel of John the disciples at that time did not understand them (along with many other things that had to happen). How can we eat his flesh and drink his blood? But later on Holy Thursday Jesus showed them how they would eat his flesh and drink his blood. He demonstrated this by repeating again what he had said to them before: This is my body, do this in remembrance of me. After his resurrection it became clear to the Apostles who led the Church and taught the miracle of the Eucharist. We know this because scripture tells us this. St Paul chastises the Corinthians for partaking unworthily of the body and blood. Indeed he states that those who partake unworthily are guilty of the Lords death. St Paul is very clear in the 10 and 11th chapters about the nature of the Eucharist. It is most certainly not a “metaphor”.
There are also writings from the 1st century specifically St Ignatius of Antioch who wrote that heretics should be shunned because they do not believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of our Lord.
From Wikipedia:
St Ignatius of Antioch: “They [the docetists] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes”. The letter is also the earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term “Catholic Church.”
I know many have been told that the Church has suppressed “What the early Christians really believed”, but I have never been able to find any evidence for this. And if this is true then there must be some written evidence somewhere, or how would anyone know that it had been suppressed?

how funny i spoke of this quote from St Ignatius during a class this pass Saturday. What is awesome, he is not the only one saying this about the Eucharist. In William Jurgens “Faith of the Early Fathers” there are scores of writings on what Jesus meant about eating his Flesh and Drinking his blood and all are a line with what the Catholic Church still teaches, hence we are still teaching what the first Christians taught oppose to what Protestants and SDA and JW’s and Mormons are teaching… makes me proud of my Christian heritage about our faith the Catholic Church, the bride of Christ. all we can do is just pray and have patience for the blind ignorance and stubborness of those who refuse to even read what the first Christians taught… but only rely on what they think the bible is saying as if they are the sole interpreture of scripture.

 

[cides23]

Nice internet yelling again “friend.” But perhaps when we look at who is calling Jesus a liar, we can consider who is saying that Jesus cannot save me, (give me life) unless I think just as you say I should. I gave an example above, to explain what I am talking about, and the great parade of former and anti Adventist rhetoric has entirely ignored this touching story of God’s love in action, of His saving grace and real presence, with no bread, and no wine.

Both of these (bread and wine) are symbols of the shed blood of Jesus, which we can all look to, and have faith in, for that “life” that Jesus was talking about. His life, is His Word:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thankfully, we serve a Lord Who does not require us to have the same doctrines, to attain unto this “life,” as we also read in John chapter 6:

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

**NOTE For Patrick: **Adventist “Suprise” # 347

Adventists do not teach that a given Bible word would always have the same context, in all instances where it is used in the Bible. There are many places where a word can be used as symbolic, yet it can still be literal in other texts. Context is important to consider. Adventists have considered, in depth all the related texts which show clearly how the use of “remember” tells us that we need to remember something Jesus did. And that already happened on Calvary. It can’t happen again through anything we do.

JOHN 6:63 “the words I speak unto you are spirit and life.” words? what words - what Christ was saying? what was Christ saying? That unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you. My flesh is food indeed my blood is drink indeed. as the living father has sent me and i live because of the father, so you who eat my flesh and drink my blood will love because of me.

How are we to eat his flesh and drink his blood? she shows us at the last supper by taking bread and wine and saying his word that he commands the apostles to do and say.

No where does Christ say, My words are symbolic and life but he say Spirit and Life… GOD is Spirit and so it is through the Holy Spirit that we will understand and believe the flehs profits nothing.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

HI MARSHA. where do you get this garbage that sda is a pro abortion cult? every sda ive ever known have been pro life, and accept the trinitarian view of God. as a former baptist i can understand the strong feelings you have. but these attacks do nothing to fascilitate discussions with this group. you may get a lot further with the truth, rather than a slanderous comment like this. i also am glad i was delivered from protestantism. but im not going to attack the baptist with something that isnt true. there may be more like yourself who are looking into Catholicism, who just may be on the edge of making a decision, and comments like these will only push them away. your insight as to egw writings would be a huge help. such as the great controversy which names the Cathoic Church as the beast of revelation and that anyone who worships on sunday receives the mark of the beast. these would really help alot. but untrue attacks like the accusations you made,will not help. :nope:
LOVE IN CHRIST

Benidict:

The Seventh Day Adventist General Conference has issued a “Guidance” that says that while abortion should considered very seriously and not used as a birth control method, it is up to the mother. If you are not anti-abortion you are pro-abortion, ergo the SDA denomination is pro-abortion. Granted individual SDAs are anti-abortion, but the denomination is not.

Definition 5a of "cult’ in the Webster’s New Collegiate Diction: “a great devotion to a person, idea, or thing” Look at the SDA devotion to EGW and her visions. Take away EGW and there will be no SDA denomination left. This is particularly true because without EGW the denomination’s entire eschatological theology will go down the drain.

I stand by what I said.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Without Calvary, you can’t be saved; without Eucharist, you can be saved. (Heb 9:22, 28)

Hi P101,

Without Calvary there would be no Eucharist. And thank you for providing the scriptures from the book of Hebrews, because this is an excellent starting point (after the study of Passover and The Last Supper and The Passion) for understanding the Eucharist!

Let’s look at the first text you cite *Hebrews 9:22 According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. *

I think we both agree, as Christians, that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. We base that on the Jewish economy and the Sanctuary services. Animals were sacrificed for the forgiveness of sins on a daily basis. Once a year the high priest would go into the Most Holy Place and make atonement for all of the sins of Israel for the past year.

Now, I think we both agree that the sanctuary services were a type of the sacrificial offering Jesus would freely and willingly make of Himself. And believe it or not, we both agree that the sacrifice of Jesus was made one time for all mankind on the cross at Calvary, as you point out with the second verse you cited above Hebrews 9:28
so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many,

Is that it? Is it all over now? Is there nothing to do?

No, Jesus entered the True Sanctuary, The Heavenly Sanctuary, of which the earthly sanctuary was just a copy.

And yet in that “copy” of the true and real, services were performed to purify and cleanse both the sanctuary and all the vessels of worship and all the people, which brings us back again to the first verse you cited above, and a few verses before it. Hebrews 9:19
When every commandment had been proclaimed by Moses to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves (and goats), together with water and crimson wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is ‘the blood of the covenant which God has enjoined upon you.’” 21 In the same way, he sprinkled also the tabernacle and all the vessels of worship with blood. 22
According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

And if the blood of calves and goats was used to cleanse and purify in the copy of the True Sanctuary, how does that transfer to the Real Heavenly Sanctuary with the Real True Lamb of God who is also our Great High Priest?

Hebrews 9:11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation, 12 he entered once for all into the sanctuary, not with the blood of goats and calves but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinkling of a heifer’s ashes can sanctify those who are defiled so that their flesh is cleansed, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God.

Notice in verse 14 that it is Christ’s own blood from His unblemished offering that cleanses us.

***Hebrews 9:22 According to the law almost everything is purified by blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 23 Therefore, it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified by these rites, but the heavenly things themselves by better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter into a sanctuary made by hands, a copy of the true one, but heaven itself, that he might now appear before God on our behalf. 25 Not that he might offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters each year into the sanctuary with blood that is not his own; 26 if that were so, he would have had to suffer repeatedly from the foundation of the world. But now once for all he has appeared at the end of the ages to take away sin by his sacrifice. ***

Jesus sacrifice was made once for all mankind. That one sacrifice and the cleansing and purifying effects of it, for the forgiveness and cleansing of sin, is eternally available for all generations of mankind until He returns again in glory.

How do we access that cleansing blood of our High Priest who intercedes for us sinners with God? It is through the means Jesus Himself put in place for those of us who live hundreds and thousands of years after the event of Calvary…and that is His Supper…The Last Supper…The Eucharist…which Jesus as our High Priest gives us in His ministry for us.

Read Hebrews chapters 6 and 7.

Hebrews 6:19 This we have as an anchor of the soul, sure and firm, which reaches into the interior behind the veil, 20 where Jesus has entered on our behalf as forerunner, becoming high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Genesis 14:18 Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine, and being a priest of God Most High, he blessed Abram…

No one can be saved without Calvary, Jesus. People can be saved without receiving Eucharist, or baptism, etc…yet that is because of God’s mercy and understanding of circumstances beyond human control which prevent people from actively participating in those blessings of grace and salvation.

But God grants most of us ample opportunities to discover and accept the fullness of His salvation and the blessings He provides to us. It is our duty to follow God in fullness and in truth as He guides us deeper in love in our relationship with Him. To ignore or resist God is death.

God bless all!!!

 

[Protestant101]

Benidict:

The Seventh Day Adventist General Conference has issued a “Guidance” that says that while abortion should considered very seriously and not used as a birth control method, it is up to the mother. If you are not anti-abortion you are pro-abortion, ergo the SDA denomination is pro-abortion. Granted individual SDAs are anti-abortion, but the denomination is not.

Definition 5a of "cult’ in the Webster’s New Collegiate Diction: “a great devotion to a person, idea, or thing” Look at the SDA devotion to EGW and her visions. Take away EGW and there will be no SDA denomination left. This is particularly true because without EGW the denomination’s entire eschatological theology will go down the drain.

I stand by what I said.

LOL, you’ll be standing a long time.

 

[Protestant101]

Hi P101,

Is that it? Is it all over now? Is there nothing to do?

No, Jesus entered the True Sanctuary, The Heavenly Sanctuary, of which the earthly sanctuary was just a copy.

And yet in that “copy” of the true and real, services were performed to purify and cleanse both the sanctuary and all the vessels of worship and all the people, which brings us back again to the first verse you cited above, and a few verses before it.

One very important distinction to realize too Patrick is that the Old Testament sanctuary, and it’s services, were not in fact “copies” but “types” and there is a huge difference. This is something that I have seen some Adventists miss too. I will be back in a few days and will enjoy responding to your other points in your last post. We’re a ways away from the 1000 post mark on this one so there should be lots of room to get into it better when I come back.

 

[Protestant101]

HI MARSHA. where do you get this garbage that sda is a pro abortion cult? every sda ive ever known have been pro life, and accept the trinitarian view of God.

I couldn’t have said it better.

Many professing former Adventists are mistaken in thinking they are “authorities” or “experts” of some kind on Adventists and their beliefs. To say that our doctrines originated in Ellen G White is to reveal how little they really do know and understand.

 

[benidict]

I couldn’t have said it better.

Many professing former Adventists are mistaken in thinking they are “authorities” or “experts” of some kind on Adventists and their beliefs. To say that our doctrines originated in Ellen G White is to reveal how little they really do know and understand.

hi protestant 101. thank you for responding. there are so many other areas we can discuss. do have friends that are sda. i have attended sabbath services with them in the past. doctrinally we are worlds apart in some areas. but ive actually had the chance to try to work with them on such issues such as 40 days for life. they did not join with us, but the seed is sown. so many areas we can work together on. will be hopefully be debating with one of your elders on another thread. may need to start another thread for that one. but if we are going to discuss, it needs to be done in the truth. not what marsha said. but lets all forgive eachother when we mispeak. we are all human. and emotions can run high at times. im guilty God bless you my friend. and yes i do understand about the blessings of the sabbath. try to go to mass on saturday as well as sunday.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

One very important distinction to realize too Patrick is that the Old Testament sanctuary, and it’s services, were not in fact “copies” but “types” and there is a huge difference. This is something that I have seen some Adventists miss too. I will be back in a few days and will enjoy responding to your other points in your last post. We’re a ways away from the 1000 post mark on this one so there should be lots of room to get into it better when I come back.

Hi P101,

I don’t see that terminology as an important distinction. But if you do, then please feel free to substitute, in the scriptures I cited, the word “type”, or “pattern”, or even “shadow”, or whatever word seems more clear to you. Any or all of those words are good for me, and do not alter in any way the points I was making. I want you to feel comfortable and secure in discussing this!

As for Adventists missing some things…well…you would know better than me since you are the expert on Adventism.

However, I didn’t miss anything and very much look forward to your responses concerning all the points I raised!

Enjoy your time off!!!

God bless all!!!