Seventh Day Adventists

[Protestant101]

Hi, P101,

Simply dismissing the issue does not make it go away. It will reamin in John 6 and it is quite literal - and no metaphor. It is the repitition that makes it stand out to anyone willing to read the text totally - and, without an agenda.

Denying the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist is not just a SDA misadventure - but, one shared by almost all of Protestantism - so, you are not alone in the P101. Of course, we are to approach the Word of God as individuals and not as some heard going off the cliff.

I really wish you would take the time to compare any other teaching of Christ with this teaching in John 6. It is significant because it is so unique. The Jews of Christ’s time (not unlike the Protestants out there today) refused to believe that the Creator of all could not do what He wanted to do in this matter. God’s Ways are not our ways - and this is a perfect example. Becasue Christ did not conform to the Jewish expectation - they walked away - and this is the same argument that you are giving.\

P101, you really did fail to meet the challenge. But, really, evading is something that is taking on the appearance of an art form. It looks like you have chosen to continue to march - but, you are really going over the cliff by failing to believe Christ’s Words of Life.

God bless

I have done this comparison you speak about before on other threads in years gone by - I have been on this forum for over three years, and most of it was summarily dismissed, so what you call “failing” is really not the best way to look at it - this type of apologetic where you try to characterize your target as “failing” or some other such weakness really explains nothing about the theology behind the person. I tend not to respond too much to such posts.

I will say that with Patrick’s posts; he is making serious efforts to be biblical and discuss the Bible with me so I am more open to responding to those types of posts; but even at that, my time is quite limited sometimes when I post here; plus there are quite a few of you, and only one of me. I won’t even try to answer everything from everyone.

I do my best, and I do it in good faith; that’s about all I can say on that score. If you are interested in seeing a bit of this comparison again; I would suggest waiting till I respond next to Patrick; there will be a bit in those posts soon. I will welcome your (name removed by moderator)ut on what he and I have started to discuss here; but I really don’t care who views me as “failing” or “refusing” here because that just has absolutely no power of persuasion or Biblical doctrine to me.

 

[Protestant101]

Thanks. I’m not holding my breath though. They all seem to ignore legit questions and make astounding fallacious remarks. Oh, Well. Ce’st la vie…

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I am glad you are not holding your breath. Your steryo-type here not only refuses to accept or portray “sound doctrine” it just creates uneeded animosity, and closes the door to fruitful discussion.

 

[Protestant101]

this is one awesome testimony!

It depends on how you look at it. To base your testimony on doctrines may not be the best way to look at things. Jesus needs to be the main focus, and testimonies about “how I escaped such and such church” simply tell very little about our personal experience with Him; and with His people.

 

[DavidMark]

Absolutely wrong: the church Fathers all agree on the Eucharist being Jesus’ actual body and blood.

I really want all my Catholic friends to consider what I am about to show you.
The Spirit of Christ came down from heaven. The body was born of Mary.
If the flesh profitteth nothing, why must the ‘host’ be “flesh”?
So what if the SDA friends show their agapé for each other, and have cookies and juice!
Obviously, they feel something, and it wasn’t the revulsion reported here.

John 6:35 "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst."

Notice that “coming to Him” He expresses as eating, and “belief in Him” as drinking.
Then it is evident and established that the celestial food is the divine bounties, the spiritual splendors, the heavenly teachings, the universal meaning of Christ.
To eat is to draw near to Him, and to drink is to believe in Him.
For Christ had an elemental body and a celestial form. The elemental body was crucified, but the heavenly form is living and eternal, and the cause of everlasting life;
the first was the human nature, and the second is the divine nature.

It is thought by some that the Eucharist is the reality of Christ, and that the Divinity and the Holy Spirit descend into and exist in it. Now when once the Eucharist is taken, after a few moments it is simply disintegrated and entirely transformed. Therefore, how can such a thought be conceived? God forbid! certainly it is an absolute fantasy.

To conclude: through the manifestation of Christ, the divine teachings, which are an eternal bounty, were spread abroad, the light of guidance shone forth, and the spirit of life was conferred on man. Whoever found guidance became living; whoever remained lost was seized by enduring death. This bread which came down from heaven was the divine body of Christ, His spiritual elements, which the disciples ate, and through which they gained eternal life. (Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 98)

 

[phummel]

How can anyone who claims to be Christian follow the teachings of Ellen White, who made false claims and pedictions that also were false? How can they follow the old covenant when Jesus gave us a new covenant? How can they claim the CC is false when
Jesus gave it full authority and He promised to be with it always? Are they claiming Jesus is a liar and a con man, much as many of the cults do?

I’d like an SDA to answer these questions if possible.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Hello Javl,

You’ve asked a lot here and I probably won’t do justice to all your questions. Of particular interest to me is the Catholic Church, so I will focus most of my energies on that part of your question.

• I believe Mrs. White was a sincere and devout woman who was inspired at times. She was also human and falliable. I also recognize she was quite prolific in her writings and borrowed much of what she wrote from other sources. I’ve been blessed by much of what she wrote, but the Bible is my authoritative source.
  Even in the SDA church, there is a wide range of opinions concerning Mrs. White. Some regard her as a prophet and an absolute authorative voice, while others place her in a more historical and pastoral setting.
• Jesus gave us the new covenant as an expresison of love. We know the old covenant was faulty because of the response of the people, not God. The New Covenant belief is in God’s Promise to write His Law on our heart, the only place it becomes effective.
  Hebrews 10:16, 2 Corinthians 3:3
  We don’t want to be Sabbath-keeping, tithe paying, health reformers that break the legs of our Saviour so we can hurry home and keeep the Sabbath.
  Rather, with love in our hearts, we do not see His commandments as being burdonsome. 1 John 5:3.
• We certainly don’t consider Jesus a liar. We believe that the Holy Spirit was sent to be with us.
  As for the Catholic Church being false, it is not my way to attack any church organization. I’d prefer to come to an understanding of the word church. Something broader, not resting in a single church organization, denomination, or sect. Rather, I see “church” as people; the company of God’s friends.
  Commonly the word church can mean organization, building, worship/service, local congregation.
  church=ekklesia/ecclesia (greek) - to call-out
  assembly - people who respond to call
  congregation - gather together (latin)
  synagog - bring together (greek)

You may be blessed by some of these verses:
Ephesians 1:22
Philipians 3:20
Romans 16:5
Acts 16:5
Revelation 21:14

Ephesians 2:19-21 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

Matthew 16:16-19 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,** the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven.”

The church is built upon the testimony and teachings of the apostles and prophets. Peter was the first to proclaim, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Surely, Christ gave him a special blessing for recognizing this.

So Javl, I see us both being part of the body of Christ. Christian brothers and friends of Jesus. I don’t see the need to belong to a political theocracy such as the CC to be counted amongst God’s friends.

blessings,
paul**

 

[greggy53]

The number of times He mentions “food” has no relevance in determining the literal or non-literal intent of a given Bible passage. It does have relevance; but not in that.

In other words no matter how many times our Lord said something,if it doesn’t agree with their agenda they ignore it.

 

[Javl]

I am glad you are not holding your breath. Your steryo-type here not only refuses to accept or portray “sound doctrine” it just creates uneeded animosity, and closes the door to fruitful discussion.

My friend. The uneeded animosity is created on your side. I ask simple questions and expect an answer. Instead I am either completely ignored or some ridiculous statement
is made totaly unrelated to the subject or question asked. I am not angry, nor am I in any
way trying to ridicule your beliefs. I am trying to engage in simple dialogue to further
understand the SDA. I listen to your side, why don’t, or can’t, you listen to mine?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

Hello Javl,

You’ve asked a lot here and I probably won’t do justice to all your questions. Of particular interest to me is the Catholic Church, so I will focus most of my energies on that part of your question.

• I believe Mrs. White was a sincere and devout woman who was inspired at times. She was also human and falliable. I also recognize she was quite prolific in her writings and borrowed much of what she wrote from other sources. I’ve been blessed by much of what she wrote, but the Bible is my authoritative source.
  Even in the SDA church, there is a wide range of opinions concerning Mrs. White. Some regard her as a prophet and an absolute authorative voice, while others place her in a more historical and pastoral setting.
• Jesus gave us the new covenant as an expresison of love. We know the old covenant was faulty because of the response of the people, not God. The New Covenant belief is in God’s Promise to write His Law on our heart, the only place it becomes effective.
  Hebrews 10:16, 2 Corinthians 3:3
  We don’t want to be Sabbath-keeping, tithe paying, health reformers that break the legs of our Saviour so we can hurry home and keeep the Sabbath.
  Rather, with love in our hearts, we do not see His commandments as being burdonsome. 1 John 5:3.
• We certainly don’t consider Jesus a liar. We believe that the Holy Spirit was sent to be with us.
  As for the Catholic Church being false, it is not my way to attack any church organization. I’d prefer to come to an understanding of the word church. Something broader, not resting in a single church organization, denomination, or sect. Rather, I see “church” as people; the company of God’s friends.
  Commonly the word church can mean organization, building, worship/service, local congregation.
  church=ekklesia/ecclesia (greek) - to call-out
  assembly - people who respond to call
  congregation - gather together (latin)
  synagog - bring together (greek)

You may be blessed by some of these verses:
Ephesians 1:22
Philipians 3:20
Romans 16:5
Acts 16:5
Revelation 21:14

Ephesians 2:19-21 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

Matthew 16:16-19 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,** the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven.”

The church is built upon the testimony and teachings of the apostles and prophets. Peter was the first to proclaim, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Surely, Christ gave him a special blessing for recognizing this.

So Javl, I see us both being part of the body of Christ. Christian brothers and friends of Jesus. I don’t see the need to belong to a political theocracy such as the CC to be counted amongst God’s friends.

blessings,
paul**

Thank you, Paul, for your answer. I appreciate your answering me honestly and not vindicitively. If only all were such as you. I understand your position and have respect for it. I hope we can continue in dialogue. Me learning about SDA and you learning about the CC. Again thank you. God Bless.

Len

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Protestant101]

hi protestant 101. thank you for responding. there are so many other areas we can discuss. do have friends that are sda. i have attended sabbath services with them in the past. doctrinally we are worlds apart in some areas. but ive actually had the chance to try to work with them on such issues such as 40 days for life. they did not join with us, but the seed is sown. so many areas we can work together on. will be hopefully be debating with one of your elders on another thread. may need to start another thread for that one. but if we are going to discuss, it needs to be done in the truth. not what marsha said. but lets all forgive eachother when we mispeak. we are all human. and emotions can run high at times. im guilty God bless you my friend. and yes i do understand about the blessings of the sabbath. try to go to mass on saturday as well as sunday.

Howdy Benidict

I like to hear testimonies where people of differing faith back grounds/denominations can work together for something that helps people. “40 Days For Life” I am presuming is a Pro-Life Ministry of the Catholic Church? Can you by any chance show me a link that would fill me in on what this is? I agree; there are many areas that we can work together on.

 

[Protestant101]

Now, I think we both agree that the sanctuary services were a type of the sacrificial offering Jesus would freely and willingly make of Himself. And believe it or not, we both agree that the sacrifice of Jesus was made one time for all mankind on the cross at Calvary, as you point out with the second verse you cited above ***Hebrews 9:28 ***
so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many,

But God grants most of us ample opportunities to discover and accept the fullness of His salvation and the blessings He provides to us. It is our duty to follow God in fullness and in truth as He guides us deeper in love in our relationship with Him. To ignore or resist God is death.

God bless all!!!

Yes, in general, Catholics agree with Protestants that Jesus “died once” for “the sins of many;” and yet, a closer examination and study would reveal some fundamental difference on what that means to Christians today.

Something does make me wonder in your posts as I review this topic a bit though. You have stated that one needs to “study the Passover,” in order to see the whole picture ideas around the Catholic Eucharist doctrine. What Bible passages would you want to start with on that aspect, and in your mind, what does the Old Testament Passover have to do with the Catholic Eucharist?

Also; on post #543 of this thread, I directed a comment to you. Did you see it? If so; what is your response to that?

Also, you mention “the fullness of salvation.” What is the difference in that verses “regular” salvation? If a person can be saved without the Eucharist doctrine, as you agreed that they could; then what is the point in trying to see two different salvations or types of salvation? There is only one as far as I know.

 

[SOSOLAK]

Hi Holly3278,

I am converting to SDA now. I love sharing the blessing I have received from this church.

You’ll find several flavors of Adventism - from progressive to traditional. I am of the progressive variety. Honestly, traditional Adventism scares me a bit. Please take a look at “What We Believe”, pineknoll.org/adventist/. Our theology comes from the Bible, and far less weight is given to Tradition.

Romans 14 is a real blessing to me, and is a bridge for me to all Christians. See Romans 14:5-6 14:23. I have convictions in my heart, but I don’t feel that everyone will interpret scripture the same way I have or have the same traditions. Sabbath to me is a date with God. I’m blessed to have that time. As for vegetarianism, I think God was way out in front with some of the Levitical guidelines - I do these things because they make good health sense. We are all at different places in our walk with Him.

We believe by accepting God’s grace, we can have salvation. Accepting that gift and loving Him, brings about a change in our hearts. For these reasons we trust Him and seek to be in harmony with His will as revealed to us through the Bible.

God bless you,
paul

Paul,quite interested with what you say. Do you think that the sabbath you worhip today is the same sabbath Jesus worship when he was here on this earth?
God bless you

 

[SOSOLAK]

You really should stop calling Jesus a liar. Satan is the father of all liars, Satan is not Jesus’ father.

You need to consider what “remember” means to a Jew. Also, by your interpretation that day you are so fond of also becomes no more than a symbol . . . “Remember the Sabbath Day”. If just remembering it keeps it holy, you really don’t need to “observe” it do you?

Marsh i agree with you tha Jesus is the the son of God(God the son) and he is not a liar. Your second paragraph makes me feel you miss understand the word"RemeMber". To me Remember means;1) NOT to FORGET 2) REMINDS ME OF SOMETHING THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY IMPORTANT 3) SOMETHING I MUST ALWAYS DO

 

[SOSOLAK]

You really should stop calling Jesus a liar. Satan is the father of all liars, Satan is not Jesus’ father.

You need to consider what “remember” means to a Jew. Also, by your interpretation that day you are so fond of also becomes no more than a symbol . . . “Remember the Sabbath Day”. If just remembering it keeps it holy, you really don’t need to “observe” it do you?

Marsh i agree with you that Jesus is the the son of God(God the son) and he is not a liar. Your second paragraph makes me feel you miss understand the word"RemeMber". To me Remember means;1) NOT to FORGET 2) REMINDS ME OF SOMETHING THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY IMPORTANT 3) SOMETHING I MUST ALWAYS DO

 

[SOSOLAK]

You really should stop calling Jesus a liar. Satan is the father of all liars, Satan is not Jesus’ father.

You need to consider what “remember” means to a Jew. Also, by your interpretation that day you are so fond of also becomes no more than a symbol . . . “Remember the Sabbath Day”. If just remembering it keeps it holy, you really don’t need to “observe” it do you?

Marsh i agree with you that Jesus is the the son of God(God the son) and he is not a liar. Your second paragraph makes me feel you miss understand the word"RemeMber". To me Remember means;1) NOT to FORGET 2) REMINDS ME OF SOMETHING THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY IMPORTANT 3) SOMETHING I MUST ALWAYS DO…

 

[benidict]

You know who the devil works through? People like you that want to be ignorant to God’s messages that are extremely clear in his word. People that take the words of a SINFULL ordinary man like the pope and your priest and want to make him God! Like the Bible says to the Law (10-commandments) & the estimony, if you don’t understand these things it’s because you close your heart and mind to the Holy Spirit. Be very careful, because it is written that soon probation will end, and then where will you be, with those satanic thoughs of your. The catholic church as a political and religious organization has let the devil use it, to twist the REAL LAWS of heaven. Everyday catholics do the will of men, they are doing the will of the devil himself. Some unfortunately because they just don’t know and others because they choose to ignore God’s true calling. You speak about Ellen White and Joseph Bates, yet the things tha came out of their mouths were in accourdance to scripture, unlike the countless popes and priests and “fathers” that spew basfemy in the presence of the Lord. Like I’ve said in the past…Keep defending satanic doctrines. Keep confusing good innocent people from knowing God’s true message, which is to follow HIM! One day you, me and everyone one on earth will have to answer to God! That is a fact! God’s things are very simple!!! Either you worship him and do HIS WILL or you worship the devil and do the devils will, which is anything but God’s.

PS> Why are you so facinated with Ellen White and Joseph Bates, and the Seventh Day Adventist movement? Isn’t your church the only church with authority and power on earth? Why don’t you spend your time learning more about your “truths” if they are so infallible? You see I do not waste my time listening to the pope or anyone for that manner, who speaks outside Biblical truths! I’ve spoken to you and to others on this forum, becasue God ask in his scriptures to share the light. Yet I will not enter usless dialouge with people that just want to argue God’s truth. When you want to open your heart to God, we’ll talk again, until then Good luck!

finally!!! an adventist who lets us know how they really feel. whew!! ive asked other sda about these things and they kinda side step it. thank you ern, for sharing with me that i am of the devil and follow satanic doctrines. i feel much better now. especially since i found a sincere adventist that follows what their church teaches. now since my daugter suffers from the same condition as egw, when and if she starts having heavenly visions, should i take that as the word of God? should i help my daughter start her own church? partial complex seizure disorder displays these type of symptoms like ellen g. white had. my daughter too. what if she has a vision that says sunday is the day of worship? would you follow her? just because someone has visions, does not make them a prophet or prophetess. egw was struck in the face by a rock, when she was young, she was in a coma for an extended period of time. she did suffer from some sort of seizure activity, and it is sad that an entire system was built around this. you want light shared? then there is some light for you. study about her. her heavenly visitations are suspect at best. where is your church prophesied about in scripture? the Catholic Church is. malichi 1:11. it is the only Church that fits this prophecy. not one of the protestant churches do. the more i study Catholocism and protestantism. the more im convinced i am in the ark of truth. lifted above the sea of confusion caused by protestantism. i will pray for you, and all that are clouded by man made systems. i wish i had not found the truth, if only it meant that all of yours would. but i thank God i was shown the truth after nearly 40 years of searching. i feel i am a stick snatched out of the fire at times. and i give The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Church he set up, all praise and thanks and a huge sigh of relief for my deliverance from confusion.

 

[benidict]

Howdy Benidict

I like to hear testimonies where people of differing faith back grounds/denominations can work together for something that helps people. “40 Days For Life” I am presuming is a Pro-Life Ministry of the Catholic Church? Can you by any chance show me a link that would fill me in on what this is? I agree; there are many areas that we can work together on.

hi patrick,not necessarilly a Catholic movement. its many churches and faith traditions working together, including Jews and Muslims, Mormons different protestant movement etc. here is a link. info@40daysforlife.com look forward to working with anyone on this. its not a religious issue, its a human rights issue. God bless.

 

[benidict]

It depends on how you look at it. To base your testimony on doctrines may not be the best way to look at things. Jesus needs to be the main focus, and testimonies about “how I escaped such and such church” simply tell very little about our personal experience with Him; and with His people.

im sorry, protestant 101, not patrick for my last post. oops my brain is older and sometimes gets things mixed up. lol! but yes, Jesus is the focus of the Catholic Church, and if you ever get the chance to study the catechism, attend mass, or any other function of the Catholic Church you will see that it is Jesus who is our only focus. when we pray the rosary, our entire focus is on the birth, life, ministry, death and ressurection, of our Lord Jesus Christ.
when we walk the sations of the Cross, we are walking in the very footsteps of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. when we attend mass, we are participating in the redemption of the world with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. my own personal experience with Jesus is as i said, i believe i am a stick plucked out of the fire. to much to put onto paper. it took almost 40 years and many pitfalls to find the truth. alot of heartache and pain along the way. and the road does not get easier just because i found the truth, in many ways its harder. but we dont walk alone. Catholicism teaches we walk together with our Lord and his Church. that includes the Blessed Mother and the Saints that have gone on before,interceding on our behalf. and that is an incredible truth. the Church is One. it Comprises those of us who are here, and those of us that have gone on. what a comfort it is to know that we truly are never alone even in our darkest hour. what a comfort it is to see that our suffering is due to Gods loving chastisement so we will not have to suffer eternal damnation, but being purified by His Grace so we may one day live with him. suffering in our thinking is something to be embraced, not pushed away. and we do not do anything alone. i can assist a brother or a sister with what they are going thru. i can rejoice with those that rejoice. it is an awesome experience to be with the people of God, even doing what some would think of as mundane. such as fixing a breakfast for a meeting of priest, or doing the dishes afterward. we are with those who in many ways are more family than our blood ties. and everything we do is focused around Jesus. no matter what it is. Love for you and yours.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Marsh i agree with you tha Jesus is the the son of God(God the son) and he is not a liar. Your second paragraph makes me feel you miss understand the word"RemeMber". To me Remember means;1) NOT to FORGET 2) REMINDS ME OF SOMETHING THAT IS SIGNIFICANTLY IMPORTANT 3) SOMETHING I MUST ALWAYS DO

Sosolak:

That is not what it means to a Jew to remember. If a Jewish couple wanted to remember their wedding anniversary, they would not get out their wedding album and look at the pictures. They would invite everyone they invited to their wedding to come to the same synagogue and they would invite the same Rabbi and they would wear the same clothes and they would go through the same ceremony. That is what remembering means to a Jew.

WHen Jesus told his disciple to do this in rememberance of Him, He was not relegating it to a symbolic re-enactment of a potluck. He was commanding them to repeat the literal eating and drinking of His flesh and blood when ever they gathered.

 

[benidict]

Ok I am sorry but it was the pentecostal they come and put up tent and did have a server and did worship with snakes this was back about in 1942,I may be wrong and if Iam I be sorry Smail

no apology necessary bill. it is fascinating tho that they do this isnt it? i personally have an aversion to snakes lol! so if i find myself in the midst of something like this, i would probably have to leave. it would probably give me nightmares! lol! i had almost forgotten about these folks. thanks for reminding me.

 

[benidict]

finally!!! an adventist who lets us know how they really feel. whew!! ive asked other sda about these things and they kinda side step it. thank you ern, for sharing with me that i am of the devil and follow satanic doctrines. i feel much better now. especially since i found a sincere adventist that follows what their church teaches. now since my daugter suffers from the same condition as egw, when and if she starts having heavenly visions, should i take that as the word of God? should i help my daughter start her own church? partial complex seizure disorder displays these type of symptoms like ellen g. white had. my daughter too. what if she has a vision that says sunday is the day of worship? would you follow her? just because someone has visions, does not make them a prophet or prophetess. egw was struck in the face by a rock, when she was young, she was in a coma for an extended period of time. she did suffer from some sort of seizure activity, and it is sad that an entire system was built around this. you want light shared? then there is some light for you. study about her. her heavenly visitations are suspect at best. where is your church prophesied about in scripture? the Catholic Church is. malichi 1:11. it is the only Church that fits this prophecy. not one of the protestant churches do. the more i study Catholocism and protestantism. the more im convinced i am in the ark of truth. lifted above the sea of confusion caused by protestantism. i will pray for you, and all that are clouded by man made systems. i wish i had not found the truth, if only it meant that all of yours would. but i thank God i was shown the truth after nearly 40 years of searching. i feel i am a stick snatched out of the fire at times. and i give The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Church he set up, all praise and thanks and a huge sigh of relief for my deliverance from confusion.

hi protestant 101, these comments are not aimed at you. you have already stated that you are on the progressive wing of the sda movement. some of the things i wrote though do need answeres, such as egw possibly having her visions because of partial complex seizure disorder? i would break bread with you any time though my friend, God bless