Seventh Day Adventists

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Since phummel seems to have jumped ship :o can any SDAist tell me with Scripture, where Christ is recognized, celebrated, or remembered in the Sabbath?

That should be a pretty important thing one should discern if contemplating SDAism and therefore the answer should be readily available.

Not a confrontation, just a friendly challenge. Even if you don’t answer, please ask yourself this and contemplate it deeply.

Blessings,

HC
 
happilycatholic said:
Since phummel seems to have jumped ship :o can any SDAist tell me with Scripture, where Christ is recognized, celebrated, or remembered in the Sabbath?

That should be a pretty important thing one should discern if contemplating SDAism and therefore the answer should be readily available.

Not a confrontation, just a friendly challenge. Even if you don’t answer, please ask yourself this and contemplate it deeply.

Blessings,

HC
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Hello HC,

Sorry for bailing for a bit. I needed a timeout.
Here are some NT references, but as you said not a reference to worship Christ:
Hebrews 4:1-13
Matthew 24:20

In fact most NT scripture with Christ and Sabbath has Him healing and doing good works. He challenges the Pharisees who are legalistic about the day. He is above the Sabbath and Lord of the Sabbath.
Mark 2:27 - Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

I personally think it was significant that Christ was in the tomb that day. It was prophesied but why?
No matter, as I said, it is not a legal requirement, but rather a day of remembrance for me - especially of Jesus.

God bless you,
paul
 
phummel said:
happilycatholic;5652806:
Haha, reminds me of another made up word, “embiggins”.

Agreed

I think we agree - my salvation is in Jesus. The Law of the old covenant has been replaced with the New Covenant - we cannot be saved by the Law.

Agreed - the great controversy to me is just God vs. Satan, Satan’s rebellion, and Satan spreading lies.

Agreed.

I don’t think the Law was imperfect but rather emergency measures for the Israelites. Something akin to a parent keeping their child from running out in the middle of the street and getting killed. The strict adherence of the Law fell short - there was no love. Jesus made His commandments fuller - we obey His commandments of love. In that context, the 10 can still be seen as valid but only because they are written in our hearts. Really is there anything in the 10 that doesn’t make sense if you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself?

Agreed. The last thing we want to be is good Sabbath-keepers and then crucify our Savior.

Agreed, for me it’s just keeping my focus on God. Even in acts of good work done in His name on that day. It can be any expression of love for God.

There are many good things you say in this part of your note, but also things I disagree with. So I go back to Romans 14:5-6 - I am fully convinced in my own mind. I am not here to shove Sabbath down your throat. You and the majority of most Christians keep Sunday as the holy day - no problem, I’m sure you are blessed on that day.
As far as being set apart, you are correct, I am on a different clock from the rest of the world. It’s not easy at times but compared to the dedication that Catholic priests, monks and nuns have, it is but a small token. Still I think God likes that I tithe an entire day to Him.

God bless you,
paul
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This is where I tend to agree. I see those who adhere to Sabbath keeping as dedicated to God. I will not, like some do, say that SDAists are not Christian. That is not my calling. Try as I might, I still cannot tell who’s going to Heaven. 🙂 Dang it anyhow. But, these are things that I wanted to throw out there for discussion.

This is Romans 5 15-17:

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

HC
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phummel said:
Hello HC,

No matter, as I said, it is not a legal requirement, but rather a day of remembrance for me - especially of Jesus.

God bless you,
paul
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That is not SDA teaching…Are you SDA?..I have an aquaintance who is SDA, and he does not consider himself Protestant. And anyone Protestant or Catholic who worships on Sunday is worshiping satan. That is offical SDA teaching.
 
Hi, Greggy53

You know, I think this SDA group has a bunch of heretics on their hands…😃
greggy53 said:
That is not SDA teaching…Are you SDA?..I have an aquaintance who is SDA, and he does not consider himself Protestant. And anyone Protestant or Catholic who worships on Sunday is worshiping satan. That is offical SDA teaching.
Click to expand...
Imagine, these guys think they can come up with their own doctrine, excuse and bless non-SDA’ers, skip over Ellen’s inspirations and still call themselves a member of the group? I mean … if these guys are successful in setting up their own doctrines… they will be forced to leave the SDA church. Aren’t we watching yet another branching of a Protestant cult?

This is serious… but, maybe it does not have to end this way! 😃

Before they subdivide again - the disaffected members need to look back to their real roots - yes, before Ellen and before Miller and his bogus end-of-the-world predictions - and even past Luther and his decision to create his own religion - yes, I am saying go right back to Jesus Christ! Once there, then they need to read Matt 16 and see what Christ did to establish His Church on earth. I mean anyone who claims the Bible as their sole authority really should take a good look at the organization that brought you that Bible - and that would be the Catholic Church. 👍

Let’s see what they decide to do…🙂
 
greggy53 said:
That is not SDA teaching…Are you SDA?..I have an aquaintance who is SDA, and he does not consider himself Protestant. And anyone Protestant or Catholic who worships on Sunday is worshiping satan. That is offical SDA teaching.
Click to expand...
You probably missed some of my intro - I am part of a liberal-progressive faction of the SDA church. You have historic, traditional, main stream (General Conference), progressive. I would say in my church of about 120, most are mainstream and about 10 or so are much more progressive. There are about 1/2 dozen old timers too. We are fighting for the souls of our youth… While I am blessed as SDA, I would prefer someone walk away then get caught up in oppressive legalism.

While we do have a GC, we are not as centralized as the RC church. Since we’ve made so many mistakes, doctrine and theology are still hotly contested.

If you want to see some fiery debate, check out how Adventists treat each other sometimes when they disagree about doctrine/theology:
spectrummagazine.org/

Good Catholic fun here:
Aquinas- spectrummagazine.org/node/1713
Augustine - spectrummagazine.org/node/1716
Anselm - spectrummagazine.org/node/1725

God bless you,
paul
 
phummel said:
Hello HC,
Sorry for bailing for a bit. I needed a timeout.
Here are some NT references, but as you said not a reference to worship Christ:
Hebrews 4:1-13
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But where in the Scripture does Jesus tell us to remember him? :o

At Passover, with His Body and Blood in the form of Bread and Wine.

Peace Be With You,

HC
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tqualey said:
Hi, Greggy53

You know, I think this SDA group has a bunch of heretics on their hands…😃

Imagine, these guys think they can come up with their own doctrine, excuse and bless non-SDA’ers, skip over Ellen’s inspirations and still call themselves a member of the group? I mean … if these guys are successful in setting up their own doctrines… they will be forced to leave the SDA church. Aren’t we watching yet another branching of a Protestant cult?

This is serious… but, maybe it does not have to end this way! 😃

Before they subdivide again - the disaffected members need to look back to their real roots - yes, before Ellen and before Miller and his bogus end-of-the-world predictions - and even past Luther and his decision to create his own religion - yes, I am saying go right back to Jesus Christ! Once there, then they need to read Matt 16 and see what Christ did to establish His Church on earth. I mean anyone who claims the Bible as their sole authority really should take a good look at the organization that brought you that Bible - and that would be the Catholic Church. 👍

Let’s see what they decide to do…🙂
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Good stuff Tom! No one here is going to take up arms or cool aid. It’s not a cult of personalities.
I feel that God can best use me in the SDA church. It is something important to me and there are many dear people I am quite fond of. Keep us in your prayers.

Your brother in Christ,
paul
 
greggy53 said:
That is not SDA teaching…Are you SDA?..I have an aquaintance who is SDA, and he does not consider himself Protestant. And anyone Protestant or Catholic who worships on Sunday is worshiping satan. That is offical SDA teaching.
Click to expand...
now, now greggy:

That is not official SDA teaching. We can find their fundementals on their website. We don’t like it when they do that kinda thing to us. I feel your frustration, but we have only to look at their work in the community to know different.

I have SDA friends and they certainly don’t believe I worship Satan, if they did they probably wouldn’t come to my house for dinner because they wouldn’t trust me not to puposely feed them pork while their not looking. 😦

Let’s be civil, k?

Blessings,

HC
 
phummel said:
You probably missed some of my intro - I am part of a liberal-progressive faction of the SDA church. You have historic, traditional, main stream (General Conference), progressive. I would say in my church of about 120, most are mainstream and about 10 or so are much more progressive. There are about 1/2 dozen old timers too. We are fighting for the souls of our youth… While I am blessed as SDA, I would prefer someone walk away then get caught up in oppressive legalism.

Marsha, are you out there? Are you familiar with the factions phummel referenced?

I’m just curious.
Click to expand...
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Greggy53

You know, I think this SDA group has a bunch of heretics on their hands…😃
Imagine, these guys think they can come up with their own doctrine, excuse and bless non-SDA’ers, skip over Ellen’s inspirations and still call themselves a member of the group? I mean … if these guys are successful in setting up their own doctrines… they will be forced to leave the SDA church. Aren’t we watching yet another branching of a Protestant cult?

This is serious… but, maybe it does not have to end this way! 😃

Before they subdivide again - the disaffected members need to look back to their real roots - yes, before Ellen and before Miller and his bogus end-of-the-world predictions - and even past Luther and his decision to create his own religion - yes, I am saying go right back to Jesus Christ! Once there, then they need to read Matt 16 and see what Christ did to establish His Church on earth. I mean anyone who claims the Bible as their sole authority really should take a good look at the organization that brought you that Bible - and that would be the Catholic Church. 👍

Let’s see what they decide to do…🙂
Click to expand...
And once more like amebas they split, and then split again continually dividing…The fruits of Sola Scriptura!
 
happilycatholic said:
now, now greggy:

That is not official SDA teaching. We can find their fundementals on their website. We don’t like it when they do that kinda thing to us. I feel your frustration, but we have only to look at their work in the community to know different.

I have SDA friends and they certainly don’t believe I worship Satan, if they did they probably wouldn’t come to my house for dinner because they wouldn’t trust me not to puposely feed them pork while their not looking. 😦

Let’s be civil, k?

Blessings,

HC
Click to expand...
If you listen to their seminars that is exactly what they imply…I hate to give out the web site it’s so full of innuendo, and false hoods but here it is : amazingfacts.org.
 
Hi, Phummel,

Welcome back…🙂
phummel said:
You probably missed some of my intro - I am part of a liberal-progressive faction of the SDA church. You have historic, traditional, main stream (General Conference), progressive. I would say in my church of about 120, most are mainstream and about 10 or so are much more progressive. Hold on just a minute, Phummel… you are not talking about the distinction between having coffee after the service or punch - you are addressing actual and significant doctrinal differences where the SDA has a very set and established position (e.g., calling the Pope the AntiChrist) This is where I am having the problem - with such a small group… you really do not have a lot of room for almost 10% acting like lose canons. There are about 1/2 dozen old timers too. We are fighting for the souls of our youth… While I am blessed as SDA, I would prefer someone walk away then get caught up in oppressive legalism.

While we do have a GC, we are not as centralized as the RC church. Since we’ve made so many mistakes, doctrine and theology are still hotly contested. As I see it that is the basic answer why Protestantism is fractured into thousands of cults, sects, groups, etc. Every assembly does it own things, hunts for a leader that thinks like they do - not some one to guide them toward Christ, and is ready to come up with a new or different doctrine at the first sign of conflict with one’s personal view of life. This is not incidental to the situation - this is a major reason why the situation even exists.

If you want to see some fiery debate, check out how Adventists treat each other sometimes when they disagree about doctrine/theology:
spectrummagazine.org/

Good Catholic fun here:
Aquinas- spectrummagazine.org/node/1713
Augustine - spectrummagazine.org/node/1716
Anselm - spectrummagazine.org/node/1725

With little effective centralized authority - how can anyone be assured of the product or the quality of that product on Saturday morning throughout the US? Seriously, before you hang out the ‘Golden Arches’ sign of McDonalds one is thorooughly taught the McD’s way of doing business - so much so that a Big Mac is the same in Augusta, ME as it is in Augusta, FL or Augusta, CA. They are quite standardized - and they have a standardized product.

A direct comparison between McD and the CC is not really what I mean to do - your salvation does not depend on a fast-food franchise. But, the CC is also standardized in many ways - especially when it comes to doctrine. There are no real CC where the priest stands at the pulpit and says that ‘Pro-Choice’ is OK. There are, however, a number of dillusional politicians who think they can make a distinction here with their public and private lives - and, that just isn’t the case. For those who have actively promoted abortion, the CC says they are have committed grave sin.

I really think that, just organizationally speaking, with such a small group, doing what you are doing is not sticking with the SDA doctrine - that this may cause problems for you.

God bless

God bless you,
paul
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sigh

We really can’t have any kind of purposeful discussion if we invite Doug Batchelor into the conversation. Why do that?
 
happilycatholic said:
sigh

We really can’t have any kind of purposeful discussion if we invite Doug Batchelor into the conversation. Why do that?
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Why not? Doug is a popular SDA evengalist. This thread is about the SDA beliefs is it not?
 
Hi, Greggy53,

I went to the site given for “Doug” and listened for about the first five minutes … this is all the time it took him to get to the point where the “Roman Catholic Church” - hmmmm I guess he means the Catholic Church - the one founded by Christ on Peter … yeah, that one… was the beast depected in Rev 13.

Maybe I am just tired of this type of nonsense that tries to pass itself off as enlightenment - but inviting him… probably is not a good idea.
greggy53 said:
Why not? Doug is a popular SDA evengalist. This thread is about the SDA beliefs is it not?
Click to expand...
God bless
 
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