H
happilycatholic
Guest
You Richard are hilarious! You first say I twisted your words then turn right around and substantiate my claim.
- Status
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, HC,
I see you noticed that, too…
… that any group would hand on to one item and effectively throw the rest of the NT out of the window. Christ set the example for honoring God - His Father - and it was not beating a drum about the Sabbath. In reality, those who did beat the drum about their Sabbath observance were soundly criticized by Christ for straining out the gnat, yet swallowing the camel!
Hmmmmmmmmmm… I am still wondering about the Coventant act of circumcision and if the SDAs practice this or not…? I mean, why just stop at only Sabbath worship being required?
God bless
God bless
I see you noticed that, too…
Let me compliment you on your previous post specifically addressing Sabbath observance like it was special in and of itself. It is just beyond my imagination … and that is going some …You Richard are hilarious! You first say I twisted your words then turn right around and substantiate my claim.
… that any group would hand on to one item and effectively throw the rest of the NT out of the window. Christ set the example for honoring God - His Father - and it was not beating a drum about the Sabbath. In reality, those who did beat the drum about their Sabbath observance were soundly criticized by Christ for straining out the gnat, yet swallowing the camel!Hmmmmmmmmmm… I am still wondering about the Coventant act of circumcision and if the SDAs practice this or not…? I mean, why just stop at only Sabbath worship being required?
God bless
God bless
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Rexpi,
Have you had a chance to look at post # 327 yet?
God bless
Have you had a chance to look at post # 327 yet?
I am interestested in hearing from you on this matter.
God bless
R
Richard_Kastner
Guest
I would like to address this question first and then maybe come back to the rest of the post.
So, you think that there were no laws in Adam and Eve’s day, except the one to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Is this what you are saying or am I missing something? If this is what you are saying then Cain committed no sin when he slew his brother Abel. But we know that Cain did sin when he murdered Abel.
Gen.4:6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
1Jn.3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom.5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The law was in place from the beginning It was just written down in Moses time.
And the prophets altho they did repremand God’s children. That is not their main function.
When the pharasee lawyer asked Jesus which was the greatest commandment He said to him in Matt22:37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Well, what did Jesus mean by the law and the prophets? He was talking about the bible that was in existance at that time. I believe the law that Jesus was talking about was the ten commandments. There is one function of the ten commandment law and one function only and that is to show us that we are sinners and in need of a Savior. It is explained to us what the function of the prophets are in Rev. 19:10 for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. So, we have the law which shows us that we are sinners and since the tabernacle of God is with men and God will not abide with sin we have the manifestation of the solution to the sin problem in the prophets (the testimony of Jesus Christ.) This is God’s plan of salvation plain and simple.
H
happilycatholic
Guest
Richard will accuse us of SDA bashing again.Hi, HC,
I see you noticed that, too…
Let me compliment you on your previous post specifically addressing Sabbath observance like it was special in and of itself. It is just beyond my imagination … and that is going some …
Hmmmmmmmmmm… I am still wondering about the Coventant act of circumcision and if the SDAs practice this or not…? I mean, why just stop at only Sabbath worship being required?
God bless
God bless
I wish I could get my mind around it, but I can’t. I really do not recognize what they’re doing as “keeping the sabbath”. Sure, they are going to church on Saturday, but that’s not keeping the sabbath. They may throw a few more things in there like not working on Saturday and not buying things on Saturday, but that’s all “hit or miss” if you ask me. They seem to be taking what they want and leaving the rest because it’s too difficult.
Blessings,
HC
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Richard,
Yes, you missed it … … so let me try again…
As I understand your position it goes like this: God does not change, the Commandments are a reflection of God therefor, the Commandments do not change.
The snag with this is God presents growth opportunities to man as God moves man forward. While God does not change - man’s view of God is changing. Early on God took a direct role in the lives of the Hebrews - but then took a more indirect role and allowed them to have a king: a change. God presents the Commandments and also the Law to Moses and then sends Christ. As I understand your previous post, items like ritual purifications are no longer required because of Christ’s death on the Cross: a change. Man prayed directly to God for forgiveness for his sins. Christ tells His Apostles (John 20_19-22) that He is giving them the delegated Power of God to forgive sins - and this is the method established by Christ: a change.
The fact is, the Bible is full of changes. But, this is not a change in God who is forever perfect and can not change. Rather, we are being shown an ever more expanding view of God that God is allowing us to experience. It is analogus to a man rading a novel - the characters are basically introduced in Chapter 1 - no one expects that these characters will reamin static through the length of the book, do they? That would be a dull book. Each chapter that the author writes exposes more and more of the character and the situtation that they are in to the reader. God is the author, and He is letter us know more about Him in incremental stages.
Genesis did not tell us all there is to know about God. Some things established by God - His direct interaction with the Hebrews or His working through Kings and Prophets no longer has a role in His Divine Plan. Did God change? No. The Divine Plan from all eternity was that certain things would last only so long. Are the Commandments obsolete? No. But, Christ is calling us to a higher level of belief and Godly behavior. What about worship only being reserved for the Sabbath? That changed, too - and it was changed at the hands of the men He put in charge of His Church - and, that would be the Catholic Church.
You know, I am still waiting to hear about circumcising males entering the SDA church as a way of keeping the commands of God and His Covenant.
God bless
Yes, you missed it …
… so let me try again…My issue has nothing to do with Adam and Eve …just used this as the earliest starting spot I could find… but, let me jump right to the issue.
As I understand your position it goes like this: God does not change, the Commandments are a reflection of God therefor, the Commandments do not change.
The snag with this is God presents growth opportunities to man as God moves man forward. While God does not change - man’s view of God is changing. Early on God took a direct role in the lives of the Hebrews - but then took a more indirect role and allowed them to have a king: a change. God presents the Commandments and also the Law to Moses and then sends Christ. As I understand your previous post, items like ritual purifications are no longer required because of Christ’s death on the Cross: a change. Man prayed directly to God for forgiveness for his sins. Christ tells His Apostles (John 20_19-22) that He is giving them the delegated Power of God to forgive sins - and this is the method established by Christ: a change.
The fact is, the Bible is full of changes. But, this is not a change in God who is forever perfect and can not change. Rather, we are being shown an ever more expanding view of God that God is allowing us to experience. It is analogus to a man rading a novel - the characters are basically introduced in Chapter 1 - no one expects that these characters will reamin static through the length of the book, do they? That would be a dull book. Each chapter that the author writes exposes more and more of the character and the situtation that they are in to the reader. God is the author, and He is letter us know more about Him in incremental stages.
Genesis did not tell us all there is to know about God. Some things established by God - His direct interaction with the Hebrews or His working through Kings and Prophets no longer has a role in His Divine Plan. Did God change? No. The Divine Plan from all eternity was that certain things would last only so long. Are the Commandments obsolete? No. But, Christ is calling us to a higher level of belief and Godly behavior. What about worship only being reserved for the Sabbath? That changed, too - and it was changed at the hands of the men He put in charge of His Church - and, that would be the Catholic Church.
You know, I am still waiting to hear about circumcising males entering the SDA church as a way of keeping the commands of God and His Covenant.
God bless
H
happilycatholic
Guest
God makes no distinction between Commandment Law and the Laws given to Moses by God. No one in Scripture makes this distinction. Richard, you are the only one making this distinction. You have chosen to place the Commandments above their author and thereby rendering the author incapable.
Ceremonial law and moral law do not exist separately in Scripture. The entire Old Testament makes up “The Law”. There is no separating them. God does not do this, the prophets do not do this and Christ and His Apostles do not do this.
It’s all God’s law for mankind. He can change it if/when He wants. It is obvious as the nose on our faces that God can and certainly has effected change in His Law. You distinguish between the two because you have this need to prove the sabbath unchangeable. Well, it hasn’t changed. Not because of the Commandments, it hasn’t changed because there is a new and perfect Covenant, Christ.
There is no need to ‘change’ anything about the sabbath. We don’t need it. We have Christ and we celebrate His sacrafice on the Lord’s Day.
Like I said you deny Christ and worship stone that was touched by Him. In doing this you are causing these stone tablets to become an idol. The sabbath should not be the foundation of your faith. It was the foundation of the faith of the Isrealites, not Christians. This is rebuked by the Apostles. It would be like us worshipping the Cross instead of Christ. We honor the Cross, but do not worship it. We venerate it, but do not worship it. The same with the Bible. You have this very distinct preoccupation with the written word when we have the real Word. You hold the 4th Commandment in higher regard than you do the Savior of the world.
You’ve even said keeping the Commandments are paramount to your salvation. That’s exactly what a Jew would say. Know Christ and abide in His love and keeping the Commandments will come naturally.
We as Christians in essence have put down the stone tablets and picked up the Eucharist.
Ceremonial law and moral law do not exist separately in Scripture. The entire Old Testament makes up “The Law”. There is no separating them. God does not do this, the prophets do not do this and Christ and His Apostles do not do this.
It’s all God’s law for mankind. He can change it if/when He wants. It is obvious as the nose on our faces that God can and certainly has effected change in His Law. You distinguish between the two because you have this need to prove the sabbath unchangeable. Well, it hasn’t changed. Not because of the Commandments, it hasn’t changed because there is a new and perfect Covenant, Christ.
There is no need to ‘change’ anything about the sabbath. We don’t need it. We have Christ and we celebrate His sacrafice on the Lord’s Day.
Like I said you deny Christ and worship stone that was touched by Him. In doing this you are causing these stone tablets to become an idol. The sabbath should not be the foundation of your faith. It was the foundation of the faith of the Isrealites, not Christians. This is rebuked by the Apostles. It would be like us worshipping the Cross instead of Christ. We honor the Cross, but do not worship it. We venerate it, but do not worship it. The same with the Bible. You have this very distinct preoccupation with the written word when we have the real Word. You hold the 4th Commandment in higher regard than you do the Savior of the world.
You’ve even said keeping the Commandments are paramount to your salvation. That’s exactly what a Jew would say. Know Christ and abide in His love and keeping the Commandments will come naturally.We as Christians in essence have put down the stone tablets and picked up the Eucharist.
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
This is a very funny statment to make+The Holy Spirit is authority enough!" all non-Cathloic church that have been started in the last 500 the person that started the new church will say I was led by the HS to start this church and now we have 32,000 all by the HS,look like the HS is not doing the job
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Bill,
I’d go easy on blaming the Holy Spirit if I were you…
God bless
I’d go easy on blaming the Holy Spirit if I were you…
Seriously, it is such statements as you have addressed that make a mockery of the prayer of Christ that they all may be one. If anything we see more fragmentation and disunity then ever before. It would seem that anyone with eyes to see would just look around and say to themselves, “This is not what Christ intended!” I am guessing that this has taken place many times and there are two major divisions - 1.) those who fragment again and form their own man-made church adn 2.) those that return to the church that Christ founded on Peter as recorded in Scripture (Matt 16)
God bless
J
Javl
Guest
I would like to ask: If SDA Church follows the law, then why does it not follow the FULL
LAW as given in Leviticus and Numbers? Or is the SDA Church also a “Cafeteria” Church?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
LAW as given in Leviticus and Numbers? Or is the SDA Church also a “Cafeteria” Church?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
P
phummel
Guest
Hi HC!Richard will accuse us of SDA bashing again.
I wish I could get my mind around it, but I can’t. I really do not recognize what they’re doing as “keeping the sabbath”. Sure, they are going to church on Saturday, but that’s not keeping the sabbath. They may throw a few more things in there like not working on Saturday and not buying things on Saturday, but that’s all “hit or miss” if you ask me. They seem to be taking what they want and leaving the rest because it’s too difficult.
Blessings,
HC
I see y’all are still at it. What staying power. On “keeping the Sabbath”, it’s just a God focused day that’s all. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Holy meaning set aside for God. No special rules or mandatory ceremonies - just keeping God the center of the day.
Amen to that.
I also make the distinction between the Ten Commandments and other laws in the OT. IMO, there were laws created by the Israelites and Moses that were not explicitly commanded by God.
You already know my view on Sabbath - it’s a tithing of my time to God. It’s a token of how I express love to Him. I’m not here to beat you over the head about Sabbath:
Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
blessings,
paul
R
Rexpi
Guest
J
Javl
Guest
Javl;5713412:
Thank you for answering my question. I do understand the SDA position on that now. But
weren’t the 10 commandments part of the old covenant? Didn’t Jesus give us new
commandments and a new everlasting covenant to replace the old? If so, then why does
the SDA Church still follow the old law?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
H
happilycatholic
Guest
R
Richard_Kastner
Guest
Rexpi;5715103:
I would like to take a crack at answering this if I could.Thank you for answering my question. I do understand the SDA position on that now. But
weren’t the 10 commandments part of the old covenant? Didn’t Jesus give us new
commandments and a new everlasting covenant to replace the old? If so, then why does
the SDA Church still follow the old law?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
First the word covenant means an agreement or contract between two parties. This from the dictionary
cov·e·nant (kŭv’ə-nənt)
n.
A binding agreement; a compact. See Synonyms at bargain.
Law
A formal sealed agreement or contract.
A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
In the Bible, God’s promise to the human race.
v. cov·e·nant·ed, cov·e·nant·ing, cov·e·nants
v. tr.
To promise by or as if by a covenant.
v. intr.
To enter into a covenant.
There is no difference in the wording of the old and the new covenant. The difference comes in how it is recieved.
Jeramiah 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
What was the covenant that was made with the house of Israel that they broke v.32? Verse 33 tells us that it is still the law, but now it is written on the heart and no man has to teach his brother to know the Lord. Do you see what this is saying? Knowing the Lord is accomplished by keeping God’s law. 1Jn.2:3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
So, the old covenant was between God and the children of Israel, which covenant they brake v.32. We can see this played out in Ex.19:8And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD. Sounds pretty good right? The people say that they will do what God says. Well we know the rest of the story don’t we? Whithin 40 days after they made this statement, they were worshiping a golden calf. They did this because they had made no provision for God’s help. They were going to do it their selves. The law was not written on their minds and in their hearts.
Now, let’s look at the newcovenant.
Hebrews 8
1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Notice v.7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. Now remember our definition of covenant. It’s an agreement between two parties. In this case between God and man. This says there was something wrong with that first covenant. What was it? Verse 8 tells us 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The fault was not in the wording of the covenant (laws), but in who the covenant was with.
So, Jesus enters the scene. The one the prophets talked about, the one John the Baptist said would baptize with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." And this is how we come to have the law written on our minds and in our hearts. Through the baptizm (anointing) of the Holy Spirit.
1Jn. 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
It is through Jesus and His sacrafice for our sins. Remember 1Jn.3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. That we receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit and now the provision is made that through the baptizm of His Spirit we have His laws written on our minds and in our hearts. Not throughour power, but through His.
P
phummel
Guest
Ok, hmmmm, more liberal SDA thought here. I hope my SDA brothers and sisters won’t be too hard on me. A lot of times when we debate theology, we are focusing on salvation issues.
There are other aspects which I consider too - trying to live in harmony with God’s universe and His will. Sometimes at first this is just done out of trust and obedience, but happily a lot of times it blossoms into understanding the good sense of what He is telling us. I fall short and fall down often.
Also, as an SDA, the end days have special focus for me too. There will be a privileged few of us who will be alive during Christ’s second coming and all the trials that procede that. Part of the message of our church is to inform people of this special time and to give them a message that will build stalwart individuals who can endure this time for Christ. It is a finishing and mature message.
So I don’t equate the SDA church as the Remnant Church, but rather see the SDA church as being committed to sharing a message that can produce individuals who will makeup the remnant people in the end. These remnant people are not the only ones who will join God in the Kingdom.
No need to be sorry - thank you for the link. I liked Rexpi’s response in #351.
H
happilycatholic
Guest
One of the problems with post #351 is it says something about doing away with “ceremonial law”. Can you show me where in Scripture Christ or His Apostles say this and where they list which “ceremonial laws” they are speaking of? Also, who was to follow these now separated and picked over laws?
This is the best description of the “Mosaic Covenant” as I have ever seen. Notice it is one covenant with not descernable “parts”. It is one and whole.
***The Mosaic Covenant is a conditional covenant made between God and the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai (Exodus 19-24). It is sometimes called the Sinai Covenant but is more often referred to as the Mosaic Covenant since Moses was God’s chosen leader of Israel at that time. The pattern of the covenant is very similar to other ancient covenants of that time because it is between a sovereign King (God) and his people or subjects (Israel). At the time of the covenant God reminded the people of their obligation to be obedient to His law (Exodus 19:5) and the people agreed to the covenant when they said; “All that the Lord has spoken we will do!” (Exodus 19:8). This covenant would serve to set the nation of Israel apart from all other nations as God’s chosen people and was as equally binding as the unconditional covenant that God made with Abraham because it is also a blood covenant. The Mosaic Covenant is a significant covenant in both God’s redemptive history and in the history of the nation of Israel through whom God would sovereignly chose to bless the world with both His written Word and the Living Word, Jesus Christ.
The Mosaic covenant was centered around God giving His divine law to Moses on Mount Sinai. In understanding the different covenants in the Bible and their relationship with one another, it is important to understand that the Mosaic Covenant differs significantly from the Abrahamic Covenant and later biblical covenants because it is conditional in that the blessings that God promises are directly related to Israel’s obedience to the Mosaic Law. If Israel is obedient then God will bless them, but if they disobey, then God will punish them. The blessings and curses that are associated with this conditional covenant are found in detail in Deuteronomy 28. The other covenants found in the Bible were unilateral covenants of promise, in which God bound Himself to do what He promised, regardless of what the recipients of the promises might do. On the other hand the Mosaic Covenant is a bilateral agreement, which specifies the obligations of both parties to the covenant.
The Mosaic Covenant is especially significant because in it God promises to make Israel “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Exodus 19:6) Israel was to be God’s light to the dark world around them. They were to be a separate and called out nation so that everyone around them would know that they worshiped Yahweh, the covenant-keeping God. It is significant because it is here that Israel received the Mosaic Law that was to be a schoolmaster pointing the way towards the coming of Christ. (Galatians 3:24-25) The Mosaic Law would reveal to people their sinfulness and their need for a Savior and it is the Mosaic Law that Christ Himself said that He did not come to abolish but to fulfill. This is an important point because some people get confused by thinking that keeping the Law saved people in the Old Testament, but the Bible is clear that salvation has always been by faith alone and the promise of salvation by faith that God had made to Abraham as part of the Abrahamic Covenant still remained in effect (Galatians 3:16-18).
Also the sacrificial system of the Mosaic Covenant did not really take away sins (Hebrews 10:1-4); it simply foreshadowed the bearing of sin by Christ, the perfect high priest Who was also the perfect sacrifice (Hebrews 9:11-28). Therefore the Mosaic Covenant itself, with all its detailed laws, could not save people. It is not that there was any problem with the Law itself, for the Law is perfect and was given by a holy God, but the Law had no power to give people new life, and the people were not able to obey the Law perfectly (Galatians 3:21).
The Mosaic Covenant is also referred to as the Old Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:14; Hebrews 8:6, 13) and was replaced by the New Covenant in Christ (Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8:8; 8:13; 9:15; 12:24). The New Covenant in Christ is far better than the old Mosaic Covenant that it replaces because it fulfills the promises made in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as quoted in Hebrews 8.
I cannot give credit because I don’t know who wrote it. It is just signed davidm.
J
Javl
Guest
Javl;5715228:
, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The fault was not in the wording of the covenant (laws), but in who the covenant was with.
So, Jesus enters the scene. The one the prophets talked about, the one John the Baptist said would baptize with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." And this is how we come to have the law written on our minds and in our hearts. Through the baptizm (anointing) of the Holy Spirit.
1Jn. 2:27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
It is through Jesus and His sacrafice for our sins. Remember 1Jn.3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. That we receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit and now the provision is made that through the baptizm of His Spirit we have His laws written on our minds and in our hearts. Not throughour power, but through His.
Thank you Richard. I now understand the SDA position on the Sabbath. I will not say that you are wrong, but, when Jesus gave Peter and the Apostles the authority to ( paraphrasing ) “bind and loose on earth and it will be bound and loosed in heaven”, they
( the believers ) had the authority to celebrate the Lord’s Day on Sunday to commemorate
Jesus rising from the dead on Sunday. ( Remember also Sabbath does not mean
Saturday, it means rest. ) Therefore, as the SDA Church believes in keeping the law by worshipping on Saturday, the rest of Christianity keeps the Law by worshipping on Sunday by the authority of Jesus Christ.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
R
Richard_Kastner
Guest
Richard Kastner;5715785:
I have said before that I believe that we will be juged by the light we have recieved. I will be judged this way and you will be judged this way. You have seen where the children of Israel broke God’s covenant by not providing a place for the Spirit of God to aid them in their quest to do God’s will. You have seen how the **law of God ** and not the law of man is written on our heart and in our minds through the anointing of the Holy Spirit made possible by the sacrifice of Christ and now you have decided to go back and trust in the laws of man instead of the laws of God. Jesus said in Jn. 14:15 If you love me you will keep my commandments. My commandments not man’s. Who do you think it was that gave us the ten commandments on mount Sianai. It was Jesus Christ. When we say we are not going to keep His and replace them with our laws, we are saying that we recognize the authority of man above the authority of God, but even more than this we are saying that we don’t love Jesus, because we do not keep His laws and I doubt that He is going to allow anyone into His kingdom that doesn’t love Him.Thank you Richard. I now understand the SDA position on the Sabbath. I will not say that you are wrong, but, when Jesus gave Peter and the Apostles the authority to ( paraphrasing ) “bind and loose on earth and it will be bound and loosed in heaven”, they
( the believers ) had the authority to celebrate the Lord’s Day on Sunday to commemorate
Jesus rising from the dead on Sunday. ( Remember also Sabbath does not mean
Saturday, it means rest. ) Therefore, as the SDA Church believes in keeping the law by worshipping on Saturday, the rest of Christianity keeps the Law by worshipping on Sunday by the authority of Jesus Christ.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Richard,
Now… just hold on a minute there… I am thinking that you have jumped the gun. So, let’s get back to the starting block to make sure we have everything in order…
Now… just hold on a minute there…
I am thinking that you have jumped the gun. So, let’s get back to the starting block to make sure we have everything in order…Javl;5717052:
and not the law of man is written on our heart and in our minds through the anointing of the Holy Spirit made possible by the sacrifice of Christ and now you have decided to go back and trust in the laws of man instead of the laws of God. Jesus said in Jn. 14:15 If you love me you will keep my commandments. My commandments not man’s. Who do you think it was that gave us the ten commandments on mount Sianai. It was Jesus Christ. When we say we are not going to keep His and replace them with our laws, we are saying that we recognize the authority of man above the authority of God, but even more than this we are saying that we don’t love Jesus, because we do not keep His laws and I doubt that He is going to allow anyone into His kingdom that doesn’t love Him.
You are so right - we will all be judged by the lights we have. Our job is to make sure that we have not closed the blinds and curtains so that all the light can come in and illuminate our journey to God.
You are so right - the Hebrews repeatedly dropped the ball when it came to fulfilling God’s Commandments - sort of reminds us of how we often respond to God’s Grace in our lives, too. I have to think of this, lest I wind up frowning on the Hebrews for their transgressions and ignoring my own which are far worse.
Now, I am really not sure it was Christ who gave Moses the 10 Commandments … I was always partial to God the Father … but, I won’t argue with about this. We are in agreement that it was God Who did this and that is what really counts, eh?
When we say we are not going to keep His and replace them with our laws, we are saying that we recognize the authority of man above the authority of God, but even more than this we are saying that we don’t love Jesus, because we do not keep His laws and I doubt that He is going to allow anyone into His kingdom that doesn’t love Him.
Now, I would like you to square this statement with Matt 16 - when Christ told Peter that He would give him the Keys (symbol of authority and honor - used to this day!) and that WHATEVER Peter bound on earth was bound in Heaven. And, just to make sure that everyone got the message, Christ re-enforces this message in John 21 (after Peter had denied Christ - after the Crucifixion when Peter ran away - and after Peter had turned around and came back!) when Christ tells Peter to feed His lambs and tend His sheep. The bottom line is that Christ put Peter in charge - admittedly, Christ has never left the Church He founded on Peter, but Peter was the visible authority of the Church.
So, if Peter has the Keys and the words of Christ (Who, according to you gave us te 10 Commandments) telling Peter he had the authority to bind and lose at will - why do you doubt this? Why do you argue that Peter did not do this - given all of references to the First Day of the Week. John tells us not everything is spelled out - and connecting the dots is something that reasonable minds can do.
I think it is time to start connecting those dots in light of the Gospels.
God bless
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