Seventh Day Adventists

[greggy53]

Hello greggy,

Great question! I test interpretation and doctrine against the fruits of the Spirit. Sometimes it takes time to observe and see.
Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Bottom line, what does such a belief do to a person and what does it say about God? I see God as a loving Father and friend - and thus I am rather fond of Galatians 1:8:
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
blessings,
paul

You left out verse 15 and in order to look at the scripture in context we need to know who Jesus is specifically speaking of in the book of Matthew:
15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

You see the problem is still with us because the Catholic Church teaches that people like Ellen White are false Prophets. The fruits of which are that her prophesies of Christ’s return were wrong!.. It didn’t happen, so why should we trust any of the fruits that have come from that tree?

So, are you telling me that you decide for yourself then what interpretations to give scripture? ? You did not answer the question.

 

[happilycatholic]

Some who choose to not say what denomination they are from have good reasons; and there is nothing wrong with their motives. This is not something limited to Adventists, or any other particular group. You are supporting a beautiful red herring here. By saying “Why are they afraid of ridicule,” you admit that that’s exactly what yourself and many others intend to do here; so perhaps you have answered your own question.

I would think the first step in evangelization is first identifying yourself unabashedly.

Blessings,

HC

 

[happilycatholic]

It was Him, not Peter that is the Rock of ages

I’m sorry, where does it say this? These next few versus do not say this, but they DO give an example of the Commission that Christ left Peter with. Big shoes to fill huh? Since you rightly recognize the value in these versus below, why do you still deny that Christ purposely used the word “Rock” to tell Peter exactly what his commission would be? You have just defined the entire Church for us. The Church is a continuence of Christ’s ministry on earth. Our Church, the Church founded on the Rock who is Peter. By it’s authority, it administers the Grace given us by God to do all the things listed in the verses you posted.

Again Richard, thank you so much. I suggest you let Christ know you think He’s made a huge mistake.

Deut. 34:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deut 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Psalm18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psalm18:31For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

 

[Protestant101]

Why do they have a good reason not to tell people what denomination they are,I think they are ashame of they church they belong to,if you are Baptist say I.am Baptist,If your Mormon say Iam Mormon,if you are Cathloic say Iam cathloic,why try to hide what you are,most people here are protestant or Cathloic so why not just tell the truth

I have been telling the truth here for over three years, as do most Adventists. Your “point” is moot. Just last month I met a Catholic who was hesitant to wear the crucifix in public and to be this open about her faith. She wasn’t ashamed of anything, and I saw her as a beautiful Christian. Sometimes, people are just shy, and they don’t have a big mouth like me, so they are quiet or quieter about their faith. Unfortunately, you are parroting the dross of cult ministries like McGregor’s, Ratzlaff, etc. You should be shining some of that Catholic light on us poor Adventists, that you keep saying you have, instead of the wanton heresies and deformed defamations of the cult ministries.

Most times; if Adventists don’t say upfront what their denomination is; it is nothing to do with being ashamed, or whatever you want to label it as; it is simply a matter of wanting to choose the best timing, to reveal, and share. I am not sure why you are trying to make that into a crime, when Catholics are no different and sometimes choose to do a similar thing.

 

[Protestant101]

I would think the first step in evangelization is first identifying yourself unabashedly.

Blessings,

HC

They usually do.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Howdy Marsha

That is such a tired, cliche’ approach, and it is really old. Many do not do that here or elsewhere. (check my profile out for one) Here in my city, the flyers I still have here in my office for our last crusade here very clearly say to the public “Sponsored by your local Seventh-day Adventists.”

You should not pay so much attention to the cult “ministries” that you get these cookie-cutter objections from. They are quite simply, not true.

None of the flyers or posters we used for our “prophesy seminars” had the denomination’s name on them. It appears that this is still true today in many places. I congradulate your area for being more honest.

 

[Rexpi]

How then do you “test” it with the Bible? Whos interpretaion do you believe? Your own?, What you think God tells you?, Your leaders in the SDA?..That is the problem. Who has the correct interpretation of the scriptures, and How do you know?

Hello Greggy

When I test something in the bible I dont use any particular denomination idea, the only thing it will count is the bible and the bible interprets itself, thats why you cannot just focus in only one verse but in the whole bible that helps you undertand more a particular topic and thats why everybody, no just catholics, need to go back to the bible and truly study it. The bible wasnt made only to scholars to understand it, rather was made for normal people to do it and thats why I said before open it we better pray to the Author of the bible to give us light to understand and He will helps us if our purpose is to get to know Him. So whenever you want to study the bible, forget about religions and focus in the pure bible, pray before and I promise you He will help you giving you wisdom to understand it.

I hope this helps Greggy. Bye

 

[Rexpi]

Why do they have a good reason not to tell people what denomination they are,I think they are ashame of they church they belong to,if you are Baptist say I.am Baptist,If your Mormon say Iam Mormon,if you are Cathloic say Iam cathloic,why try to hide what you are,most people here are protestant or Cathloic so why not just tell the truth

I thought everybody here knew what SDA means, Seventh Day Adventist if they didnt, well sorry and now you know.
Now, reason why in some of our programs we dont type in the flyers Seventh Day Adventist, and I said some (because in many we do identify before hand), is because there is so much prejudice towards religions and then because of that prejudice so many people that truly want to know God might probably say Oh no I better dont go, my religion leader told me they are wrong, you see… But when they go to the program, listen about God, His word and His love and feel in their hearts the Holy Spirit many of them go back home changed for good, many other go back home with the message in their minds and then they study more about it.
Our purpose is to present the Bible you see, we are not perfect but our Father is perfect and He is the only one we have to present, exalt and worship no other.

And for the records not only SDA do this in their programs I’ve seen this in many other religions including yours. Is nothing wrong as long as they want to present Jesus and the truth.

I hope this help you understand the why. Thanks

 

[Javl]

Some who choose to not say what denomination they are from have good reasons; and there is nothing wrong with their motives. This is not something limited to Adventists, or any other particular group. You are supporting a beautiful red herring here. By saying “Why are they afraid of ridicule,” you admit that that’s exactly what yourself and many others intend to do here; so perhaps you have answered your own question.

Sorry, you’ve got that wrong. I am NOT here to ridicule. To do so is un-Christian. I’m sure that the others feel the same way. I, and we, are here to dialogue. I will listen to you if you listen to me. I also refuse to argue. Arguments are of no use, they only cause emnity.
As you try to convince me that your way is THE way, I try to prove that it is not. If I can
listen to you, I expect you to do the same for me.

God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[greggy53]

Hello Greggy

When I test something in the bible I dont use any particular denomination idea, the only thing it will count is the bible and the bible interprets itself, thats why you cannot just focus in only one verse but in the whole bible that helps you undertand more a particular topic and thats why everybody, no just catholics, need to go back to the bible and truly study it. The bible wasnt made only to scholars to understand it, rather was made for normal people to do it and thats why I said before open it we better pray to the Author of the bible to give us light to understand and He will helps us if our purpose is to get to know Him. So whenever you want to study the bible, forget about religions and focus in the pure bible, pray before and I promise you He will help you giving you wisdom to understand it.

I hope this helps Greggy. Bye

The Bible interprets itself WOW! So, when I pray and study the Bible, and we Catholics do pray and study the Bible (more than what you have been told no doubt) my interpretation then, what I believe it to mean will be the right one!..But wait a minute, what if my interpretation is different from your interpretation? What then? Does it mean I don’t understand what it is saying? Or perhaps it’s that you don’t understand what means? What if another person has a different interpretation than either you or I?? We can’t all be right, and very possibly we will all be wrong. When people rely on their own wisdom, and understanding to interpret the scriptures you’ll end up 10,000 different versions of the truth. Quid est veritas?
That is why we cannot forget about religions. Quite the contrary; I am Catholic because I recognize that the fullness of truth that is found in the word of God has been revealed to his Church like he promised. The cannon of the scriptures was written and assembled by the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church for the Church.
Hope this helps too.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Rexpi,

I think you have stated an excellent goal!

You post puts into high definition the complexity of topic. While trying to use one verse to prove everything is not usually the best approach - the real issue to stay on topic with the content (usually located in the chapter) that is questioned. Let me give you an example:

In John 6, Chirst identifies Himself as Food to be eaten no less then eight times. He rebukes the Pharisees at their lack of Faith, even though they had seen the miracles that Jesus has performed. Christ further rebukes the Pharisees when they scoff at the idea of eating the Flesh of Christ and drinking His Blood - and they walk away - and Christ does not stop them saying that they simply had misunderstood His statement. There is no other story in the Gospels where Christ repeats what He has said so many times. Yet, Protestants dismiss it with the remark that “…the flesh profits nothing…” meaning that the Flesh of Christ which He has just commanded us to eat is of no value. But, don’t stop there - St. Paul’s comment of condemnation for those who eat and drink the Blood of the Lord unworthily sure must mean we are not talking of some quait memory activity - and don’t forget the Early Church Fathers who all believed in the Real Presence of our Lord in the the Eucharist - not a mere symbol.

Yes, you are quite right - one verse can do a lot of violence to content. Thanks for bringing up that concept…

When studying the bible we cannot just base ourselves in one verse, the bible eventhough is many books in one still one only Author. To understand it then is wise to use the whole lot which will give us more light regarding different topics. For example when studying prophecy in Daniel it helps a lot to study Revelations at the same time.
And upon everything before opening the bible we should pray to God so He can guide us through with the Holy Spirit and also to give us a humble heart to accept any true we might find in it. it doesn’t matter what religion you stand for… If you sincerily want to really know Jesus, He will help you to find Him!

You see, God loves us and He doesn’t want us to fight over His word, I know we get excited with what we know and want to tell others. Satan wins when we fight… Instead we should pray more for each other so we all can get closer to Jesus. I am a
Seventh Day Adventist but it doesn’t make me
save… You can belong to any religion but if you
don’t belong to Jesus you are building your house in the sand.

There is something I am really sure and that is the fact that Jesus is so, so close to come! So let’s get ready! Let’s put aside our traditions and concentrate in getting to know Him that love us. His word is in our hands and is clear than ever if we go to it with humble hearts.

If I learn something that I didn’t know about God from a Catholic friend or a Baptist friend or an Adventist friend the only thing I have to do is to tested with the bible… If I find true in there that I didn’t know before well… Maybe I can improve my relationship with God.

I hope we can share what we know with the only goal of getting closer to Jesus and to worship Him who created heavens and earth!

God bless

 

[Rexpi]

The Bible interprets itself WOW! So, when I pray and study the Bible, and we Catholics do pray and study the Bible (more than what you have been told no doubt) my interpretation then, what I believe it to mean will be the right one!..But wait a minute, what if my interpretation is different from your interpretation? What then? Does it mean I don’t understand what it is saying? Or perhaps it’s that you don’t understand what means? What if another person has a different interpretation than either you or I?? We can’t all be right, and very possibly we will all be wrong. When people rely on their own wisdom, and understanding to interpret the scriptures you’ll end up 10,000 different versions of the truth. Quid est veritas?
That is why we cannot forget about religions. Quite the contrary; I am Catholic because I recognize that the fullness of truth that is found in the word of God has been revealed to his Church like he promised. The cannon of the scriptures was written and assembled by the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church for the Church.
Hope this helps too.

Perhaps you didnt see what I put… Pray to God so He can give you HIS wisdom to understand HIS word… I’m not saying to use YOUR understanding… And again, I’m not fighting with you, please dont write that way that obviously I can see your anger. I’m an Adventist but it doesnt make me save, nor being catholic will… You stand for your church as the church of Christ thats fine, if you are happy no problems at all.

 

[greggy53]

Perhaps you didnt see what I put… Pray to God so He can give you HIS wisdom to understand HIS word… I’m not saying to use YOUR understanding… And again, I’m not fighting with you, please dont write that way that obviously I can see your anger. I’m an Adventist but it doesnt make me save, nor being catholic will… You stand for your church as the church of Christ thats fine, if you are happy no problems at all.

There was certainly no anger in my response, perhaps some sarcasm, and that I apologize for. I did see what you wrote, but what I am trying to say is that if 10 people sit down and pray for guidance by the Holy Spirit, and study the same scripture or scriptures they are very likely to come away with several different interpretations of those scriptures. Now, they all can’t be right. One person thinks he has received God’s wisdom, and understanding, but so does the next guy, and the next guy yet another interpretation. Do you see what I am getting at? I believe you are sincere in your belief and faith that God has given you the best path to take, and I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but in the final analysis as a member of the SDA you are accepting what that organization has taught you about the interpretation of scripture. What I would suggest for you to do is to question the authority of those who have taught you. Especially when they preach against the same Church that Jesus established.

 

[phummel]

You left out verse 15 and in order to look at the scripture in context we need to know who Jesus is specifically speaking of in the book of Matthew:
15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

You see the problem is still with us because the Catholic Church teaches that people like Ellen White are false Prophets. The fruits of which are that her prophesies of Christ’s return were wrong!.. It didn’t happen, so why should we trust any of the fruits that have come from that tree?

So, are you telling me that you decide for yourself then what interpretations to give scripture? ? You did not answer the question.

Hello greggy,

I consider myself a member of the SDA church, but firstly a Christian and then a Protestant. I do not restrict interpretation of the Bible to just the teachings of my own church. I have been blessed by much of Mrs. White’s writings, but I’ve also read writings of Catholic Saints, Luther, modern day apologetics, etc.
I just got back from Bible study - 4 guys sitting around reading the Bible and spit-balling ideas. So, yes I prayfully interpret the Bible on my own and take personal responsibility for my own relationship with God. I don’t expect the answers to be handed to me all wrapped-up and nice and neat. It’s a journey - searching and questioning - to know Him. I know I don’t understand everything or get everything right, but He is a part of my life. By the examples I see in the gospels, I have a role model to look up to.

God bless you,
paul

 

[Protestant101]

None of the flyers or posters we used for our “prophesy seminars” had the denomination’s name on them. It appears that this is still true today in many places. I congradulate your area for being more honest.

But it’s not a question of “honesty;” although I know former Adventists, in particular, really love to try and make it so. One has to consider the agenda of those with such accusations, and how that might affect the reality of it. Resorting to such tactics and accusations with those whom you disagree with doctrinally is indicative of a much bigger problem than your accusations here.

 

[greggy53]

Hello greggy,

I consider myself a member of the SDA church, but firstly a Christian and then a Protestant. I do not restrict interpretation of the Bible to just the teachings of my own church. I have been blessed by much of Mrs. White’s writings, but I’ve also read writings of Catholic Saints, Luther, modern day apologetics, etc.
I just got back from Bible study - 4 guys sitting around reading the Bible and spit-balling ideas. So, yes I prayfully interpret the Bible on my own and take personal responsibility for my own relationship with God. I don’t expect the answers to be handed to me all wrapped-up and nice and neat. It’s a journey - searching and questioning - to know Him. I know I don’t understand everything or get everything right, but He is a part of my life. By the examples I see in the gospels, I have a role model to look up to.

God bless you,
paul

2 Peter: 20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

It must be convenient to decide to accept or reject any particular scripture you like. Deciding for yourself what it says, or doesn’t say. It is certainly a journey for us all, and I for one will take all that help I can get from the Church. As the scripture says “lean not on your own understanding.”

 

[Richard_Kastner]

You see the problem is still with us because the Catholic Church teaches that people like Ellen White are false Prophets.

What do you mean by “people like”

The fruits of which are that her prophesies of Christ’s return were wrong!.. It didn’t happen, so why should we trust any of the fruits that have come from that tree?

Ellen White never prophesied the time of Christ’s return.

So, are you telling me that you decide for yourself then what interpretations to give scripture? ? You did not answer the question.

Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ can expect the anointing (baptizm) of the Holy Spirit and thereby is qualified to interpret scripture not in there own understanding, but in the words that the Spirit of God teaches. This is well documented in the bible.

1 Jn.2 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 cor.2:12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you would greggy please take a look at this prayer of Paul’s in Eph.1:15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Let me ask you greggy do you think the Father answered Paul’s prayer? Jn.16:63 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
So, what does this mean? Well, it means that through faith in Jesus the Father will give to us “wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him” This of coarse is found in the bible. And He gives us this wisdom and revelation by the same power that He used to raise Jesus from the dead. Pretty powerful stuff don’t you think?

 

[happilycatholic]

What do you mean by “people like”

False prophets.

Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ can expect the anointing (baptizm) of the Holy Spirit and thereby is qualified to interpret scripture not in there own understanding, but in the words that the Spirit of God teaches. This is well documented in the bible.

1 Jn.2 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Richard,

While I think Greggy is perfectly able to respond to your question, let me try my hand…

What do you mean by “people like” How about these William Miller (1782-1849) with his two different predictions for the Second Coming of Christ, or Joseph Turner with salvation being shut to future generations or Joshua V. Himes, Hiram Edson and of course, E. White.

Ellen White never prophesied the time of Christ’s return. ** She saw the foolishness that Miller had caused and avoided the same folly. She just had visions of “Advent People” and her vision on keeping the Sabbath. **

Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ can expect the anointing (baptizm) of the Holy Spirit and thereby is qualified to interpret scripture not in there own understanding, but in the words that the Spirit of God teaches. This is well documented in the bible. ** Let me interrupt you right here, Richard, and point out two problems: Frist, neither St. John or St. Paul were talking about individuals going off on their own - all of these quotes related to union with the Church and the Church (and that would be the Catholic Church) receiving direction from the Holy Spirit. Second, you just can not have multiple groups claiming they can interpert inerrant Scripture in an inerrant manner and come up with conflicting statments (e.g., Baptism is necessary - vs. - no, it is simply a symbol, or, Eucharist is the Body of Christ - vs. - no, it is symbol a memory experience) **

If you would greggy please take a look at this prayer of Paul’s in Eph.1:15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: ** Richard, praying for wisdom is not the same as not the same as pronouncing doctrine. When you simply look around and see all of the doctrines being pronounced as coming from God - and see the obvious conflict and chaos - and all that unites this division is a knowledge that whatever the 2,000 year oldCatholic Church with its unified teaching (just to keep it simple, on Baptism and Eucharist) says is wrong - you just have to ask yourself: “Does this make any sense?” **

Let me ask you greggy do you think the Father answered Paul’s prayer? Jn.16:63 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
So, what does this mean? Well, it means that through faith in Jesus the Father will give to us “wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him” ** While I am confident God answers all prayers in His Own Divine Way, I am equally confident God wants humanity to use the channel He established through Christ to receive His Grace and learn of His Will - and that would be through the Catholic Church. **

This of coarse is found in the bible. And He gives us this wisdom and revelation by the same power that He used to raise Jesus from the dead. Pretty powerful stuff don’t you think? ** Actually, the "pretty powerful stuff is that Christ has chosen sinful men to entrust His Church as our the channel thorugh which we will enter as Children of God (Baptism) be nourished in body and soul (Eucharist) be forgiven for our sins (Confession) be strengthened through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Confirmaiton) for some to be a symbol of Christ’s love for His Church (marriage) and for others to be ministers of His Blessed Sacraments (Holy Orders) and to be a comfort to us as we exit this life and face our Savior (Anointing of the sick). The actual revelation is from the Church who gave you the Bible you claim to believe. Rejecting the source of God’s Word is amazing - but, from another direction. **

God bless

 

[Rexpi]

Full of human traditions that what it is… Baptism different that the one Jesus showed, confessing our sin to a sinner… What’s the point?, lots of people walking on the streets following a wood image, sure is biblical… That Mary is alive in Heaven… Show me in the bible please, that the pope is representative of Jesus here on earth… The pope is as sinner as you and me and he need salvation as well… There is heaps of things that are contrary to the bible and you don’t have to interpret anything it’s simple as reading the problem is if you are putting your traditions and your pope or priest words before God’s words.