Seventh Day Adventists

[greggy53]

What do you mean by “people like”
Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ can expect the anointing (baptizm) of the Holy Spirit and thereby is qualified to interpret scripture not in there own understanding, but in the words that the Spirit of God teaches. This is well documented in the bible.

No they are not “qualified to interpret scripture”, and scripture says so.(2 Perer1:20) You take a number of individual scriptures out of context, and link them together so they will agree with what you want them to say. Anyone can come up with any excuse in the Bible to do just about anything they want doing what you do. You don’t have the authority to interpret scripture.

I meant false prophets like Ellen White…did you want me to name a few ?

You said: “Ellen White never prophesied the time of Christ’s return.”

In the 1850’s she predicted that Christ would return in a “few months”

She also predicted that she, and other adventists alive in 1856 would live to see Jesus Return. There are many other false visions and predictions she made. False prophesies all of them. Personally I think she was brain damaged due to being in a coma when she was young. Someone threw a rock and hit her in the head. So, I don’t think she was malicious in her deceptions. It’s just a shame so many have been taken in by the delusions of a sick woman.

 

[happilycatholic]

Full of human traditions that what it is… Baptism different that the one Jesus showed, confessing our sin to a sinner… What’s the point?, lots of people walking on the streets following a wood image, sure is biblical… That Mary is alive in Heaven… Show me in the bible please, that the pope is representative of Jesus here on earth… The pope is as sinner as you and me and he need salvation as well… There is heaps of things that are contrary to the bible and you don’t have to interpret anything it’s simple as reading the problem is if you are putting your traditions and your pope or priest words before God’s words.

The words of God are there Rexpi, but unfortunately in the haste of your church founders and leaders to build their foundations on the hateful nature toward the catholic Church, they have misinterpreted those words to benefit their traditions, not the ones founded by Christ. This being His placing of the Church in the capable hands of the Apostles whom He chose and giving His Apostles the power to administer the Sacraments to the believers.

The Church is doing the same things the Apostles did in the time of Christ, in the same way they were done in the time of Christ.

No Christian had even heard of a protestant until the Reformation in the 1500’s.

The same Scripture was used, the same rules were followed and the same Sacraments were given and received until Martin Luther and those that came after him decided they could do it better.

The fact of the matter is Rexpi, the Reformers and their successors are the ones that have reinterpreted, rewritten, and redifined Christianity according to their own means to an end, not the catholic Church.

Peace Be With You,

HC

 

[tqualey]

Hello, Rexpi,

Look around you - we are all sinnners. Peter denied Christ…so, in the list of sinners… he would be a big one! In fact, early on even Peter realized this (Luke 5:8) when he said, “Depart from me Lord, I am a sinful man!” So, let’s stay calm and realize that not only do we know we are sinful, but the Lord knows we are sinfull, too! Let’s see if we can address these issues you have brought up…

Full of human traditions that what it is… Baptism different that the one Jesus showed, **Now, you will have to do more then just dismiss this - but, Jesus never Baptized anyone! Jesus was Baptized by John… and Jesus taught Nicodemus that Baptism was necessary… and Jesus commanded that we be Baptized - but no where is it recorded did He Baptize anyone. And while you are at it - there is nothing recorded in Scripture that the Apostles were Baptized! (So, for all the literalists… now what!? ) I understand that the SDA use the Trinitarian words, so those SDAs wanting to become Cathokic would have their Baptism recognized by the Catholic Church. As far as how the water gets on you … well, the Catholic Church has been Baptizing people for about 2,000 years and there has been a significant history on discussing what is best (recall that Christ did not lay out a specific form for how one is to Baptize…so, please, go easy on that human tradition line. **

confessing our sin to a sinner… What’s the point?** Truly an excellent question - and I would like to direct you to John 20 - you will find a wealth of information in this chapter. And, the point is, this is the method that Christ chose for us to use. If you do not like it, then your argument is with Christ - and you can take it up with Him at the White Throne if you are so inclined. Short of that, I guess the point is that we are to have Faith in the signs of Grace that Christ gave us to use through His Church (and, that would be the Catholic Church) These signs are also called Sacraments.** ,

lots of people walking on the streets following a wood image, sure is biblical… ** I seem to recall Moses being instructed to create a bronze serpent and raise it up for the people to look at… Num 28: 8-9. If the wooden image you are deriding is the crucifix, it is a reminder on the great price paid for our salvation. I’d really go easy on this type of ridicule… this may be another item to discuss when you arrive at the White Throne. **

That Mary is alive in Heaven… To the best of my knowledge, Christ is alive in Heaven, too. Now, Christ is God and rose on His Own Power from the grave. His Mother Mary - the Mother of God was assumed into Heaven by the Power of God - and not on her own power or authority. Catholics only give worship to God. We do honor Mary as His Mother… and maybe this is something else that should be considered … just how far do you want to go to criticize the Mother of God?

Show me in the bible please, that the pope is representative of Jesus here on earth… The pope is as sinner as you and me and he need salvation as well… ** Let’s start with Matt 16, when God the Father inspires Peter (and none of the other Apostles) to proclaim Christ is the Son of God, Now, Christ gives Peter the Keys and the authority to bind and lose on earth and it will be bound and losed in Heaven - I do not know how you read this…but, that sounds like a lot of Power has been given to one sinful man! And this sinful man is going to deny Christ! Do you think Christ knew about that when He gave the Keys and this Power to Peter …? Just in case anyone was going to say, “Hey, Pete, you denied Christ - you are not worthy to lead us!” Christ re-confrms Peter in his role as leader (John 21) and does not elevate any of the other Apostles. Peter is still the leader - the leader chosen by Christ. Again, if you have any argument with this, you will need to take this up with Christ - the One Who made this appointment. White Throne time is getting a little busy… **

There is heaps of things that are contrary to the bible and you don’t have to interpret anything it’s simple as reading the problem is if you are putting your traditions and your pope or priest words before God’s words.Try this one on for size - since you have already disputed Christ’s words in giving the sinful men (Apostles) the Power to forgive or retain sin - and Christ just said this once… how will you respond to Christ calling Himself Food to be eaten (John 6) no less then eight times - and commanding that to have eternal life you must eat His Flesh. If it is an issue as “…simple as reading…” then I invite you to read those plainly spoken words of Our Savior and see how the SDA and other groups have danced around them. Recall the various stories told by Christ - no one is repeated in such a way. This is no misunderstanding on the part of the Jews - they clearly understood and refused to believe. That is what the SDA group is doing now. It is a matter of Faith. The issue here is that you can not simply pick and choose what it is that you will believe from the Scriptures you claim to believe.

God bless

 

[Marsha_Adams]

But it’s not a question of “honesty;” although I know former Adventists, in particular, really love to try and make it so. One has to consider the agenda of those with such accusations, and how that might affect the reality of it. Resorting to such tactics and accusations with those whom you disagree with doctrinally is indicative of a much bigger problem than your accusations here.

Of course it is a matter of honesty. We were even instructed in how to sidestep the question if someone pressed to know who was sponsoring these meetings.

But if you say it is not a question of honesty, what is it a question of? Why would anyone in good faith hide their affiliations?

 

[Rexpi]

Hello, Rexpi,

Look around you - we are all sinnners. Peter denied Christ…so, in the list of sinners… he would be a big one! In fact, early on even Peter realized this (Luke 5:8) when he said, “Depart from me Lord, I am a sinful man!” So, let’s stay calm and realize that not only do we know we are sinful, but the Lord knows we are sinfull, too! Let’s see if we can address these issues you have brought up…

Full of human traditions that what it is… Baptism different that the one Jesus showed, Now, you will have to do more then just dismiss this - but, Jesus never Baptized anyone! Jesus was Baptized by John… and Jesus taught Nicodemus that Baptism was necessary… and Jesus commanded that we be Baptized - but no where is it recorded did He Baptize anyone. And while you are at it - there is nothing recorded in Scripture that the Apostles were Baptized! (So, for all the literalists… now what!? ) I understand that the SDA use the Trinitarian words, so those SDAs wanting to become Cathokic would have their Baptism recognized by the Catholic Church. As far as how the water gets on you … well, the Catholic Church has been Baptizing people for about 2,000 years and there has been a significant history on discussing what is best (recall that Christ did not lay out a specific form for how one is to Baptize…so, please, go easy on that human tradition line

God bless

I didnt say at all that Jesus was baptizing people, He was baptized by immersion in water… you have to get baptized once you accept Jesus as your savior but sadly a baby cannot do that…

All the verses you mentioned dont make any sence, you keep saying what your church says and you still believing your church is THE CHURCH… go to God not the pope.

a sinner cannot forgive me for my sins, not even the pope can forgive your sins mate, we need Jesus and thats it.

We respect Mary as Jesus mother but the truth is the truth, she is DEAD and together with many will resurrect in Jesus’ second coming.

The snake in the cross was totally different of what I was saying, read the whole thing… Image of wood of Jesus, Mary and all those you call holy people passing in the streets, people trying to touch them, crying, walking in their knees for forgivness! Thats not God’s forgivness. Just give a look to the 2nd commandment

I know you wont even care what I am saying you are blind, I hope one day you can open your eyes and see that the so called mother church is no what you think.

 

[Javl]

I didnt say at all that Jesus was baptizing people, He was baptized by immersion in water… you have to get baptized once you accept Jesus as your savior but sadly a baby cannot do that…

All the verses you mentioned dont make any sence, you keep saying what your church says and you still believing your church is THE CHURCH… go to God not the pope.

a sinner cannot forgive me for my sins, not even the pope can forgive your sins mate, we need Jesus and thats it.

We respect Mary as Jesus mother but the truth is the truth, she is DEAD and together with many will resurrect in Jesus’ second coming.

The snake in the cross was totally different of what I was saying, read the whole thing… Image of wood of Jesus, Mary and all those you call holy people passing in the streets, people trying to touch them, crying, walking in their knees for forgivness! Thats not God’s forgivness. Just give a look to the 2nd commandment

I know you wont even care what I am saying you are blind, I hope one day you can open your eyes and see that the so called mother church is no what you think.

Why do you refuse to read in the Bible what Jesus said without putting any spin on it?
When Jesus told Peter to take care of His sheep He gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom
and the authority to bind and loose. This authority did not end with the death of Peter,
nor did the Church that Jesus built on Peter. This authority has been handed down through the ages, and the Church that Christ built is the Catholic Church. It has followed
to the letter the commands of Jesus and has not ursurped or changed any of His
teachings for the past 2000 years. The Catholic Church was not founded by man , as
many are today, such as yours, but by God Himself and we connot be true to anyone but
Him! I’m sorry to say that you seem to have no understanding of the primitive Church, it’s history, or any of the Church Fathers. Sad but true.

God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[happilycatholic]

I didnt say at all that Jesus was baptizing people, He was baptized by immersion in water… you have to get baptized once you accept Jesus as your savior but sadly a baby cannot do that…

My dear Rexpi, you are assuming the incorrect reason for Baptism. Baptism is a Sacrament (Grace of God) given to us to cleanse our souls from original sin . It is not nor has it ever been the right of initiation into the Christian community. It also is not a public “display” of acceptance for Jesus Christ. It is what it is. We must then, with the protection of the Holy Spirit, go one to learn of Christ and His Church and accept Him as our Lord and Savior and be accepted into His Body of believers when we are of the age of discernment.

You do not have to be “old enough” to accept the Grace of God. A newborn child is just as rightfully eligible to be cleansed of original sin as anyone old enough to request such.

As catholics, we don’t use our Baptism as a form of public display of our “acceptance” of our Church, as God needs no acceptance from us. It is us who needs to accept God. We don’t believe our Baptism to be some form of “initiation” into the Church of believers. In my opinion, those that do this turn Baptism into a “work” and not a form of Grace or a free gift such as catholic Baptism is. There are no “terms” of acceptance applied to catholic Baptism. It is truly a free gift.

All the verses you mentioned dont make any sence, you keep saying what your church says and you still believing your church is THE CHURCH… go to God not the pope.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, HC

Nicely said - and, much better then the response I had worked on… found out the list was busy… and then lost it! Truly… it could have been a ‘great moment in English literature’… or, something like that!

I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I personally think it is you who are blind. You limit God and His Church to those things you’ve been taught by those who don’t know the full Truth. Hopefully, you will see the errant ways of those people who will interpret Scripture to support their personal theories and thereby gain favor from believers such as yourself.

False doctrines such as “soul sleep” and “investigative judgement” are not found, nor supported in Scripture.

Peace Be With You

HC

 

[happilycatholic]

Hi, HC

Nicely said - and, much better then the response I had worked on… found out the list was busy… and then lost it! Truly… it could have been a ‘great moment in English literature’… or, something like that!

 

[Rexpi]

Well what can i say… one day you will see who is wrong here. Good luck

 

[tqualey]

You,too, fella.

Well what can i say… one day you will see who is wrong here. Good luck

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, HappyCatholic,

I think Rexpi just got out of the discussion. Was it something that was said… I certainly don’t know what these SDAs folks expect … they ask for Scripture, they get Scripture… they ask for responses and they logical and measured responses - and after a smoke screen of complaints… leave!

While I am diappointed that s/he (?) left … no one is going to lie down and play dead to these challenges to both Scripture and Apostolic Tradition.

Come to think of it… have not heard form Richard lately…have you?

There was a poster who is now a Catholic, but was onece an SDA. I’m sorry, I forgot your name… … do you have any insights to help us along here?

Thanks

God bless

 

[bodigzig]

I am converting to SDA now. I love sharing the blessing I have received from this church.

I’m terribly confused! The Bible is SDA sole source of the word of God, yet the listed belief system includes:

1. The Gift of Prophecy:
   One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Who is Ellen G. White that her word is to re-write or supercede the word of God?! The leadership of the Catholic Church came from the authority of Jesus himself and was granted to his apostles who were to pass it on to those who followed. Does Ellen G. White have authority granted to her by an apostle?!

I would strongly recommend you investigate this Ellen G. White who usurps the Word of God before converting to SDA! Please do this for your Eternal Soul, as the Bible mentions those that would give false witness and this woman has no authority to speak for God!!!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Bodigzig,

You are not the only one who is confused… Let’s see if we can at least get the players straight…

I am converting to SDA now. I love sharing the blessing I have received from this church. **You stated you are a Catholic. You then state that you are going to become a SDA. This means you are leaving the Catholic Church. Am I understand you correctly? **

I’m terribly confused! The Bible is SDA sole source of the word of God, ** Allow me to interrupt you here for just a moment … … As you know, it was the Catholic Church that established the Canon of Scripture in about 450AD - yet, prior to this date - from 100AD when the last of the original 12 Apostles died (John) the Chruch continued to teach the Message of Salvation through faith in Christ and behavior that supports that belief. Sometimes I get the impressin (it is probably just me…) that from 100AD until about 1500 when Luther came on the scene nothing had taken place. Then we have to jump to the time period of the American Civil War to find out that E. White has splintered for the Millerite group to form still another religion based on personal preferences and inclinations… like the thousands of splintering Protestants before her. Sorry for the interruption, please continue… **

yet the listed belief system includes:

1. The Gift of Prophecy:
   One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.) You do really have to wonder about this…

Who is Ellen G. White that her word is to re-write or supercede the word of God?! The leadership of the Catholic Church came from the authority of Jesus himself and was granted to his apostles who were to pass it on to those who followed. Does Ellen G. White have authority granted to her by an apostle?! **This is really where I got lost… it sounds like you are not happy with what Ellen has done…and, for someone who is going to join the group, this is a strange statement to make. Wouldn’t you agree? **

I would strongly recommend you investigate this Ellen G. White who usurps the Word of God before converting to SDA! **i could not agree more! For goodness sakes - just look at their history. Christ promised to build His Church (and, that would be the Catholic Church) on Peter - not on Ellen. This is no small point. As I see it, Ellen did more then usurps the Word of God - she has attempted to steal the leadership position given by Christ to another (in this case, it would be today’s Pope, Benedict XVI) ** Please do this for your Eternal Soul, as the Bible mentions those that would give false witness and this woman has no authority to speak for God!!! AMEN! Ah, does this mean that you are no longer leaving the Catholic Church to become an SDA?

God bless

 

[Javl]

tqualey and happilycatholic:

we should heed the words of St. Paul when he said “watch out for those who…upset
peoples faith and go against the teaching which you have received…!” ( Rom 16:17 ).

Trying to make the SDA understand is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing pentrates or gets through. You know it’s the “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with facts!”
syndrome. Very sad.

God Bless

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[happilycatholic]

Hi, HappyCatholic,

I think Rexpi just got out of the discussion. Was it something that was said… I certainly don’t know what these SDAs folks expect … they ask for Scripture, they get Scripture… they ask for responses and they logical and measured responses - and after a smoke screen of complaints… leave!

While I am diappointed that s/he (?) left … no one is going to lie down and play dead to these challenges to both Scripture and Apostolic Tradition.

Come to think of it… have not heard form Richard lately…have you?

There was a poster who is now a Catholic, but was onece an SDA. I’m sorry, I forgot your name… … do you have any insights to help us along here?

Thanks

God bless

When all else fails…just quit.



I told Richard a few posts back that I would gladly go through any passage of Scripture he threw my way and he’s yet to take me up on it. I am no scholar, but it doesn’t take one. He really can’t prove his position when Scripture is viewed in the context which it was written.

I know they are well-meaning Christians, but they have this mistaken notion (taught to them by their church) that catholics don’t know Scripture because all our Bibles were taken away from us in the Middle Ages and we just never bothered to get them back.

As for Rexpi, he/she seems to be “parroting” things that have been taught in protestant churches for years, not only SDA churches with no real knowledge to back it up or even a desire to do a little research.

Marsh Adams is probably the former SDAist you are referring to. That’s her I.D. on CAF anyway. She’s very knowledgeable on both faith doctrines and is a huge asset.

Well, I guess we’ve come to the end of this discussion. Sad really. I never do get answers to my questions. Oh well.

Blessings,

HC

 

[happilycatholic]

tqualey and happilycatholic:

we should heed the words of St. Paul when he said “watch out for those who…upset
peoples faith and go against the teaching which you have received…!” ( Rom 16:17 ).

Trying to make the SDA understand is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing pentrates or gets through. You know it’s the “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with facts!”
syndrome. Very sad.

God Bless

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I can understand when folks disagree and say so. What gets me is that they have to add the “and you’re going to hell” part. Like Rexpi’s little quip about me finding out who’s wrong.

Their hearts are especially hardened to the catholic Church. It will take the Holy Spirit to undo that.

Blessings,

HC

 

[Marsha_Adams]

There was a poster who is now a Catholic, but was onece an SDA. I’m sorry, I forgot your name… … do you have any insights to help us along here?

Thanks

God bless

Nothing short of a miraculous infusion of God’s grace is capable of breaking though the invincible ignorance that binds SDAs to their errors. Apologetics, Scripture study, logic . . . none of that can break through to them. I thank God always for snatching me like a brand from the burning and opening my eyes to the truth so easily found in the Bible (John 6 for example) and yet totally invisible to the SDAs.

The only insights I have to offer are the words of Christ, Matthew 7:6
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Marsha,

Thank you very much for responding… I am so sorry I forgot your name…

Nothing short of a miraculous infusion of God’s grace is capable of breaking though the invincible ignorance that binds SDAs to their errors. Apologetics, Scripture study, logic . . . none of that can break through to them. I thank God always for snatching me like a brand from the burning and opening my eyes to the truth so easily found in the Bible (John 6 for example) and yet totally invisible to the SDAs.

The only insights I have to offer are the words of Christ, Matthew 7:6
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

You are quite right - the Grace of God is what has brought us here to the Church founded by Christ on Peter. I do recall encourtering that invincible ignorance… and not much appears to be accomplished with the discussions that we just concluded. What puzzles me is why so many seem to come to CAF and then refuse to actually engage in dialogue

Now, I do have a technical quesiton on the SDA organization… if you don’t mind answering it… Is the Millerite group consider the foundation for SDAs or was it repudiated?

Thanks for posting…

God bless

 

[Javl]

Hi, Marsha,

Thank you very much for responding… I am so sorry I forgot your name…

You are quite right - the Grace of God is what has brought us here to the Church founded by Christ on Peter. I do recall encourtering that invincible ignorance… and not much appears to be accomplished with the discussions that we just concluded. What puzzles me is why so many seem to come to CAF and then refuse to actually engage in dialogue

Now, I do have a technical quesiton on the SDA organization… if you don’t mind answering it… Is the Millerite group consider the foundation for SDAs or was it repudiated?

Thanks for posting…

God bless

From what I have read about the SDA , and reading between the lines, I think that the
Millerites were repudiated.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem