Seventh Day Adventists

[Patrick_Murebil]

It is not my intention to win SDAs to the Church. That is the job of the Holy Spirit, and I am happy to let Him get on with it. If you are interested, there is a blog SDA2Roman Catholic that is filled with former SDAs who have converted to the Church. Interestingly, none of them appear to have been “won” by other Catholics. Most all of them became Catholic (kicking and screaming all the way) as a result of personal Bible Study and the grace of God.

A path I would personally recommend to you.

So although I am not interested in evangelizing SDAs, I will always defend the Body of Christ against insults and mockery, which it has been my experience are free flowing from most SDAs towards the Church. For defending the Church, I will apologize to no one.

Hi Marsha,

I think you stated the conversion process for SDAs to the Catholic Church very accurately. It was not another Catholic or any Catholic “meetings”, etc. which led me to convert to Catholicism. It was for me, as it was for you and most of the other SDA converts, a very personal, isolated, and lonely journey. Study and becoming informed regarding the erroneous beliefs I held as a SDA about Catholicism, merely revealed my ignorance about Catholicism and my willingness to believe error because I despised Catholicism. After study, I was merely an embarrassed individual realizing I had spent many years making false accusations against a Church that I really knew nothing about, but was convinced that I did.

But it was the Grace of God which moved me from the place of error to the Truth…the fullness of the Truth.

It has been well over a year now that I have spent posting and dialoging on blogs and forums, the reasons why I became Catholic, why I believe the Catholic Church is God’s One True Fold, and why I could never be an Adventist ever again.

It has been in the past month, where I have come to share your conclusions that we cannot “win” SDAs to Catholicism. That it is indeed the work of the Holy Spirit, and His work produces lasting results.

In my time posting over the past year and a half, we have stated our beliefs and our reasons for our beliefs. I have read Adventists posting their beliefs and reasons for their beliefs. There is nothing new in any discussion which has not been hashed out and addressed in the first month of dialogue way back when. What is that definition of insanity?..to continue to do the same thing over and over and over and expecting different outcomes?

In all my years as an Adventist, it was always arguing or trying to prove that saturday was obligatory to Christians, or that the Pope was the anti-christ, or that Rome was the whore of Babylon, or that whatever president got elected would be the “protestant to reach across the gulf and clasp hands with Rome and set up the image to the beast”, yada, yada, yada…

I am no longer an Adventist, and I do not want to continue to be an Adventist as a Catholic. I am Catholic, and our Church is so clear and true in its teaching about the Christian life and duty. It is time to live and love as a Christian…as Jesus taught.

Like you, I will defend God’s Church against slanderous and bigoted lies…and pray.

God bless all!!!

 

[Marsha_Adams]

It has been in the past month, where I have come to share your conclusions that we cannot “win” SDAs to Catholicism. That it is indeed the work of the Holy Spirit, and His work produces lasting results.

In my time posting over the past year and a half, we have stated our beliefs and our reasons for our beliefs. I have read Adventists posting their beliefs and reasons for their beliefs. There is nothing new in any discussion which has not been hashed out and addressed in the first month of dialogue way back when. What is that definition of insanity?..to continue to do the same thing over and over and over and expecting different outcomes?

Pat:

This is good news and bad news to me. The bad news is that I had hoped that it was just my own peculiar brand of jaded cynicism that labelled SDAs as being so totally invincibly ignorant that nothing short of Divine Intervention could awaken them to the truth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The good news is that you agree with me.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that we can get fliers printed up to pass out in front of SDA buildings and seminars. (Talk to Brandon about this, he knows a place on the internet that does this. He was telling me about yesterday) All they may do is make one SDA to go “hmmm?” so that down the road that seed under the rain of the Holy Spirit may begin to grow.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Patrick,

Thank you for your courageous post and sharing your journey to Christ’s Church.

Hi Marsha,

I think you stated the conversion process for SDAs to the Catholic Church very accurately. It was not another Catholic or any Catholic “meetings”, etc. which led me to convert to Catholicism. It was for me, as it was for you and most of the other SDA converts, a very personal, isolated, and lonely journey. Study and becoming informed regarding the erroneous beliefs I held as a SDA about Catholicism, merely revealed my ignorance about Catholicism and my willingness to believe error because I despised Catholicism. After study, I was merely an embarrassed individual realizing I had spent many years making false accusations against a Church that I really knew nothing about, but was convinced that I did.

But it was the Grace of God which moved me from the place of error to the Truth…the fullness of the Truth.

It has been well over a year now that I have spent posting and dialoging on blogs and forums, the reasons why I became Catholic, why I believe the Catholic Church is God’s One True Fold, and why I could never be an Adventist ever again.

It has been in the past month, where I have come to share your conclusions that we cannot “win” SDAs to Catholicism. That it is indeed the work of the Holy Spirit, and His work produces lasting results.

In my time posting over the past year and a half, we have stated our beliefs and our reasons for our beliefs. I have read Adventists posting their beliefs and reasons for their beliefs. There is nothing new in any discussion which has not been hashed out and addressed in the first month of dialogue way back when. What is that definition of insanity?..to continue to do the same thing over and over and over and expecting different outcomes?

In all my years as an Adventist, it was always arguing or trying to prove that saturday was obligatory to Christians, or that the Pope was the anti-christ, or that Rome was the whore of Babylon, or that whatever president got elected would be the “protestant to reach across the gulf and clasp hands with Rome and set up the image to the beast”, yada, yada, yada…

I am no longer an Adventist, and I do not want to continue to be an Adventist as a Catholic. I am Catholic, and our Church is so clear and true in its teaching about the Christian life and duty. It is time to live and love as a Christian…as Jesus taught.

Like you, I will defend God’s Church against slanderous and bigoted lies…and pray.

God bless all!!!

God bless

Tom

 

[Marsha_Adams]

You have a signature that says “Proud To Be A Papist,” yet I would get an infraction, or be banned from this forum for using that term. You insult even your own Church with every post.

By the way, I remain proud to be a papist even when others choose to consider the term an insult.

pa·pist (pā′pist)

noun - a Roman Catholic, esp. one who ardently supports the pope

adjective - of or like a Roman Catholic (esp. one ardently supporting the pope) or the Roman Catholic Church

Webster’s New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

 

[greggy53]

Pat:

This is good news and bad news to me. The bad news is that I had hoped that it was just my own peculiar brand of jaded cynicism that labelled SDAs as being so totally invincibly ignorant that nothing short of Divine Intervention could awaken them to the truth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The good news is that you agree with me.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that we can get fliers printed up to pass out in front of SDA buildings and seminars. (Talk to Brandon about this, he knows a place on the internet that does this. He was telling me about yesterday) All they may do is make one SDA to go “hmmm?” so that down the road that seed under the rain of the Holy Spirit may begin to grow.

I agree, If we can plant a seed it doesn’t matter if we are around when it begins to grow. They need to hear the true story of the Catholic faith.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Pat:

This is good news and bad news to me. The bad news is that I had hoped that it was just my own peculiar brand of jaded cynicism that labelled SDAs as being so totally invincibly ignorant that nothing short of Divine Intervention could awaken them to the truth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The good news is that you agree with me.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that we can get fliers printed up to pass out in front of SDA buildings and seminars. (Talk to Brandon about this, he knows a place on the internet that does this. He was telling me about yesterday) All they may do is make one SDA to go “hmmm?” so that down the road that seed under the rain of the Holy Spirit may begin to grow.

Hi Marsha,

I agree with you because that is what I have witnessed over the past year and a half. I also know that in my own life I was resistent to, and ignored, what Catholics had to say to me. As you, and the other SDA converts to Catholicism, know…it is was nothing short of an inexplicable miracle that we came to “see”. And that healing of vision cannot be forced, taught, or talked into being…it comes only from some miracle of grace through the Holy Spirit that I cannot explain.

And no, that realization that I’ve come to does not mean that we end our work to counteract those falsehoods being spread about our Church. As we have talked before, I think it is important to have a presence at all Adventist seminars and meetings that present false accusations and errors against The Church. I like the idea of handing out “information brochures” at Adventist Revelation and Prophecy seminars. I need to talk with Brandon again.

But what I would really like to see would be a group of Catholics standing outside Adventist “seminars”, quietly and peacefully praying the Rosary for the intervention of the Holy Spirit. I belong to a Parish with roughly 14,000 members on the books…could you imagine if half of them, 7,000, or even a quarter of them, 3,500, Catholics showed up outside these “seminars” and all prayed the Rosary in just a whisper? Those whispers united would form a shout that would be difficult to ignore.

We will continue our discussions and planning offline…I’m curious as to what Brandon has discovered. We will talk soon.

God bless all!!!

 

[Protestant101]

If Catholics call us the way they want why not I can do the same? I know I don’t have to fight about believes, bible say not to throw pearls to the pigs. We shouldn’t then put Gods word in a pigs terrain such as fighting.

Instead I would prefer to teach someone that is truly looking for the truth out in the world and to get ready for His soon return.

Catholics are not “pigs.”

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Hi, Patrick,

Thank you for your courageous post and sharing your journey to Christ’s Church.

God bless

Tom

Hi Tom,

You’re welcome! But I wouldn’t call it a courageous post as much as it is an observation of reality. My journey to The Church wouldn’t fit in these space allotments…lol

It is interesting that so many of us who convert to Catholicism do so based on coming to an understanding of The Blessing…The Eucharist…Jesus body and precious blood sacrificed for us on the cross and then given to us in His supper as the resurrected life giving Lord of all creation, once again through His living body and life giving blood. Through faith we receive Jesus body and precious blood by which He lives in us making us alive in Him.

It was a funny thing when I was a protestant, that I used to view Catholics as having no faith, so that was why they “needed” statues and sacramentals. And I would venture to say that many protestants have this attitude toward Catholics. And yet these same protestants who live by faith alone and are saved by faith alone, are lacking in faith to take Jesus at His own word when He said “This is my body”, and “This is my blood”.

Praise God that He has given me faith…oh Lord I believe, help my unbelief!

God bless all!!!

 

[Protestant101]

Hi Marsha,

I agree with you because that is what I have witnessed over the past year and a half. I also know that in my own life I was resistent to, and ignored, what Catholics had to say to me. As you, and the other SDA converts to Catholicism, know…it is was nothing short of an inexplicable miracle that we came to “see”. And that healing of vision cannot be forced, taught, or talked into being…it comes only from some miracle of grace through the Holy Spirit that I cannot explain.

And no, that realization that I’ve come to does not mean that we end our work to counteract those falsehoods being spread about our Church. As we have talked before, I think it is important to have a presence at all Adventist seminars and meetings that present false accusations and errors against The Church. I like the idea of handing out “information brochures” at Adventist Revelation and Prophecy seminars. I need to talk with Brandon again.

But what I would really like to see would be a group of Catholics standing outside Adventist “seminars”, quietly and peacefully praying the Rosary for the intervention of the Holy Spirit. I belong to a Parish with roughly 14,000 members on the books…could you imagine if half of them, 7,000, or even a quarter of them, 3,500, Catholics showed up outside these “seminars” and all prayed the Rosary in just a whisper? Those whispers united would form a shout that would be difficult to ignore.

We will continue our discussions and planning offline…I’m curious as to what Brandon has discovered. We will talk soon.

God bless all!!!

Hi Patrick! How are you? Long time “no see.!” You spoke about a “healing vision.” And I agree, only the Holy Spirit can accomplish in us the conviction of Bible truth and holiness. If I ever see you outside one of our seminars; I will join you in prayer - I likely won’t do the Rosary thing, but I would be happy to join you and your friends in prayer. I would see it as an opportunity for God to work.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Hi Patrick! How are you? Long time “no see.!” You spoke about a “healing vision.” And I agree, only the Holy Spirit can accomplish in us the conviction of Bible truth and holiness. If I ever see you outside one of our seminars; I will join you in prayer - I likely won’t do the Rosary thing, but I would be happy to join you and your friends in prayer. I would see it as an opportunity for God to work.

Hi P101,

I’m good…how are you? Yes it has been a long time…good to “see” you again! I’ve been spending most of my “blogging time” over on the SDA2RC blogspot.

We don’t have to wait for one of your seminars to pray together…I’ll pray the Lord’s prayer with you each day in the unity of the Holy Spirit!

God bless all!!!

 

[Protestant101]

“Sauce For The Goose” Though I don’t know that any Catholic here has accused your Church of worshiping “the beast”. Or, of being the “Harlot” of Revelations. The SDA has spread many malicious lies about the Church, so don’t feign indignance when that bird comes home to roost.

So you are saying revenge is OK?

It is very plain on this forum what many Catholics think of us, no matter what you try to say your Church officially teaches.

If you look at our teachings as a whole picture; it would be evident right away that it is not just Catholics who are “reproved” by certain Bible teachings that we hold to.

I am not “feigning indignance.” Just stating an observation and conclusion that Marsha’s obsession with Adventists being all secretive and such is just not true. She’s so used to saying it, (she gets it from non-Catholic sources) that she even said it to me, and for over three years on this forum; I have made sure everyone knew I was Adventist. You need to face the fact that she is wrong.

 

[Protestant101]

It was a funny thing when I was a protestant, that I used to view Catholics as having no faith, so that was why they “needed” statues and sacramentals. And I would venture to say that many protestants have this attitude toward Catholics. And yet these same protestants who live by faith alone and are saved by faith alone, are lacking in faith to take Jesus at His own word when He said “This is my body”, and “This is my blood”.

Praise God that He has given me faith…oh Lord I believe, help my unbelief!

God bless all!!!

Well what’s even funnier is that I have always seen certain Catholics as having lots of faith; and it was Adventist teachings that told me this. Thats one of the reasons I am still an Adventist because they taught me that God loves everyone all the time!

 

[Protestant101]

Hi P101,

I’m good…how are you? Yes it has been a long time…good to “see” you again! I’ve been spending most of my “blogging time” over on the SDA2RC blogspot.

We don’t have to wait for one of your seminars to pray together…I’ll pray the Lord’s prayer with you each day in the unity of the Holy Spirit!

God bless all!!!

LOL, sounds good!

 

[Protestant101]

Hi, P101,

What a thoughtful post… I would like to commend you for expressing a sentiment on fraternal charity that, I think, like Christ’s arms embraces all of peace and good will.

God bless

Thanks tqualey!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, P101,

Sounds like we are all enjoying the “funny” insights this post is providing… But, since you responded to part of Patrick’s post, I am wonder if you would respond to the heart of its matter…

Well what’s even funnier is that I have always seen certain Catholics as having lots of faith; and it was Adventist teachings that told me this. Thats one of the reasons I am still an Adventist because they taught me that God loves everyone all the time!

If “Faith Alone” and “Scripture Alone” is sufficient … why is it that Christ words in John 6, rephrased in at 8 different ways, that He is Food to be eaten … and the Last Supper account where Christ again says that He is Food to be eaten and hands the Broken Bread to His friends and tells them to eat - why this can not be believed for what it says?

I really would appreciate hearing an explanaiton - especially from a group that I think says the earth was created in six (24-hour) days. And, why? Because, the Bible says so.

Thanks.

God bless

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Marsha’s obsession with Adventists being all secretive and such is just not true. She’s so used to saying it, (she gets it from non-Catholic sources) that she even said it to me, and for over three years on this forum; I have made sure everyone knew I was Adventist. You need to face the fact that she is wrong.

Protestant101:

I was an SDA for 31 years. When we would go out to do door to door evangelization in preparation for an evangelistic series we were told not to reveal our religious affiliation, and were instructed in how to avoid it if we were pressed on the issue without “actually” lying about it.

Yes, you have always admitted to being an SDA, but with a name like Protestant 101 and no information in the Religion spot, it really was not obvious unless it came up in conversation. That strikes me as being secretive.

 

[greggy53]

So you are saying revenge is OK?

No, I said in effect that if you beat some one over the head with a club don’t be suprised if they hit you back. It’s self defense, not revenge.

It is very plain on this forum what many Catholics think of us, no matter what you try to say your Church officially teaches.

I’ll agree that some of us come off pretty cocky about our faith at times. That is not a good thing and many a priest and other leaders in our Church would admonish us for it and rightly so.
I know that the Catholic Church teaches that the SDA have a valid Baptism, and we should accept them as Christians. I personally have a hard time doing so because the SDA hate the Church that I love.

If you look at our teachings as a whole picture; it would be evident right away that it is not just Catholics who are “reproved” by certain Bible teachings that we hold to…

When I look at your teachings as a whole I see that they are based on the delusions of a sick woman who after receiving a head injury started having hallucinations. I don’t recognize your authority to teach, or “reprove” anyone for anything.

I am not “feigning indignance.” Just stating an observation and conclusion that Marsha’s obsession with Adventists being all secretive and such is just not true. She’s so used to saying it, (she gets it from non-Catholic sources) that she even said it to me, and for over three years on this forum; I have made sure everyone knew I was Adventist. You need to face the fact that she is wrong.

Well you folks know how to dish it out so you’ll get no sympathy from me…If you have a probelm Marsha then take it up with Marsha. I think she’s got your number and it’s sticking in your throat.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, (name removed by moderator),

Very nicely stated! Keep up the good work!

God bless

Tom

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101:

I was an SDA for 31 years. When we would go out to do door to door evangelization in preparation for an evangelistic series we were told not to reveal our religious affiliation, and were instructed in how to avoid it if we were pressed on the issue without “actually” lying about it.

Yes, you have always admitted to being an SDA, but with a name like Protestant 101 and no information in the Religion spot, it really was not obvious unless it came up in conversation. That strikes me as being secretive.

I don’t know what you are trying to prove here. For over three years I have had that info in my profile somewhere so quit trying to “prove” Im “secretive.”

 

[Protestant101]

No, I said in effect that if you beat some one over the head with a club don’t be suprised if they hit you back. It’s self defense, not revenge.

I’ll agree that some of us come off pretty cocky about our faith at times. That is not a good thing and many a priest and other leaders in our Church would admonish us for it and rightly so.
I know that the Catholic Church teaches that the SDA have a valid Baptism, and we should accept them as Christians. I personally have a hard time doing so because the SDA hate the Church that I love.

When I look at your teachings as a whole I see that they are based on the delusions of a sick woman who after receiving a head injury started having hallucinations. I don’t recognize your authority to teach, or “reprove” anyone for anything.

Well you folks know how to dish it out so you’ll get no sympathy from me…If you have a probelm Marsha then take it up with Marsha. I think she’s got your number and it’s sticking in your throat.

Marsha doesn’t “have my number,” and the last thing I want is “sympathy” from anyone here. I appreciate the opportunity of expressing my ideas here, of testing my beliefs and opinions; and I would just add two things to this comment I am posting.

1. Some former Adventists truly believe that they are “experts” on Seventh-day Adventists. This is not usually the case; but it’s what they believe. All they can do is relate their own personal experience, but this does not prove what the denomination “really teaches.”
2. Adventists do not “hate” the Catholic Church or any other Church. We do teach things that are in direct opposition to your Church; and we do say that some of these teachings are not from God, but that is an entirely different thing than “hatred” of an entire denomination. I could also presume from the many responses I have gotten just on this forum, let alone elsewhere, that Catholics hate Adventists; in fact, I do think that some former Adventists actually do hate us. They act and look very bitter to us in any interactions. But generally speaking, Christian groups who oppose one another’s teachings are not guilty of “hatred.” They are concerned about truth, just as you are. I also know that the Adventist Church certainly does not condone the behavior of some of our members towards Catholics, so you need to consider this, plus the fact that Ellen White has written just as strongly against Seventh-day Adventists whom she saw as not following the truth. If you were living beside me here where I live; I am sure we would be good friends.