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SteveVH
Guest
I believe that the actual number of abortions is closer to 3,000 per day. Your point, however, is well taken and even one abortion is one too many.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
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BibleTruth
Guest
They have said it. You just read words to that effect.
You may want to look into the esoteric teachings of the RCC and the Jesuit Order. There you will uncover the truth for yourself and will discover that the Catholic Church has its origins in paganism and the Order of the Knights Templar.
“The Templars, like all other Secret Orders and Associations, had two doctrines, one concealed and reserved for the Masters, which was Johannism; the other public, which was the Roman Catholic.” Morals and Dogma, p. 689 Albert Pike.
“The celebration of the Mysteries of Mithras was also styled a mass; and the ceremonies used were the same. There were found all the sacraments of the Catholic Church, even the breath of confirmation. The Priest of Mithras promised the Initiates deliverance from sin, by means of confession and baptism, and a future life of happiness or misery. He celebrated the oblation of bread, image of the resurrection. The baptism of newly-born children, extreme unction, confession of sins, - all belonged to the Mithriac rites. The candidate was purified by a species of baptism, a mark was impressed upon his forehead, he offered bread and water, pronouncing certain mysterious words.” ibid, p. 456.
By the way, Albert Pike is not an SDA source. His writings comprise the foundation of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, of which the esoteric aspect of the RCC is closely linked.
You are being deceived. God is calling you to “come out of her my people…” Revelation 18:4. If you truly belong to Him, you will hear and respond to His call.
God bless you.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
One of the wonderful things about modern society is that people can write or say whatever they want–especially about their neighbor’s religion. That doesn’t make any of it true, and unfortunately, people such as yourself abuse the privilege.
So… are you prepared to accuse the Jews of being Mithraic? After all, they have baptism (mikvah), confirmation (bar mitzvah), ritual bread (matzo), confession (vidui), and so on. Of course you aren’t—but you’ll demonize the Catholic Church all day long. Please take the log out of your eye.
By the way, there are no “esoteric” or “secret” teachings of the Catholic Church. Freemasonry, however, has plenty.
So… are you prepared to accuse the Jews of being Mithraic? After all, they have baptism (mikvah), confirmation (bar mitzvah), ritual bread (matzo), confession (vidui), and so on. Of course you aren’t—but you’ll demonize the Catholic Church all day long. Please take the log out of your eye.
By the way, there are no “esoteric” or “secret” teachings of the Catholic Church. Freemasonry, however, has plenty.
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SteveVH
Guest
No problem. The real numbers are bad enough. Can you imagine what this country would be doing if we had a 9/11 each and every day? We have just that, through abortion, and most don’t even blink an eye. I think we’re getting a little off topic though. Maybe you could start a new thread on this subject.
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system
Guest
Hello BIBLETRUTH,
Below is a brief response to some of your comments. I put them in bold.
“Pagan sun worship precedes the formation of the Roman Empire, but it was adopted by Constantine and was “baptized” into Christianity by his desire to merge paganism and Christianity in an effort to bring relative peace to the empire.”
If there is any truth to this it would be historically irrelevant for two major reasons
“The first official Sunday law was instituted by him in 321 AD.”
As far as a Sunday law, that may be correct (I was not able to verify this). Fortunately this has no effect on the fact that the Christians had been celebrating the Eucharist together every Sunday.
You see, we can both debate our own personal interpretation over Scripture all day and get no where. Essentially the Sabbath question is a historical one.
Which can be solved by answering one question. “Did the early Church celebrate the Eucharist on Sundays or the Sabbath?”. If so they would be the best examples to follow, as they were taught either by apostles, or those taught by apostles, etc. So what was the early Church teaching?
The earliest clear cut answer to the question on Christians viewed the Lord’s Day as Sunday comes to us from St Justin Martyr writing in his first apology;
"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.’’
continued…
Below is a brief response to some of your comments. I put them in bold.
“Pagan sun worship precedes the formation of the Roman Empire, but it was adopted by Constantine and was “baptized” into Christianity by his desire to merge paganism and Christianity in an effort to bring relative peace to the empire.”
If there is any truth to this it would be historically irrelevant for two major reasons
- As Constantine was not baptized until his deathbed and
- there is absolutely no evidence that Christianity and it’s core doctirnes were ever changed or modified due to Constantine ordering them to merge together. This conspiracy Da Vinci Code tpye view of the early Church and the council of Nicea is a best a simple myth. This type of argumentation I expect from Muslims, but I am shocked at how many SDA ministers and apologists are using this type of argumentation.
“The first official Sunday law was instituted by him in 321 AD.”
As far as a Sunday law, that may be correct (I was not able to verify this). Fortunately this has no effect on the fact that the Christians had been celebrating the Eucharist together every Sunday.
You see, we can both debate our own personal interpretation over Scripture all day and get no where. Essentially the Sabbath question is a historical one.
Which can be solved by answering one question. “Did the early Church celebrate the Eucharist on Sundays or the Sabbath?”. If so they would be the best examples to follow, as they were taught either by apostles, or those taught by apostles, etc. So what was the early Church teaching?
The earliest clear cut answer to the question on Christians viewed the Lord’s Day as Sunday comes to us from St Justin Martyr writing in his first apology;
"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.’’
- St Justin Martyr (105 CE - 165 CE) First Apology CHAPTER LXVII – WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS
continued…
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system
Guest
continued…
The only way you could possibly disregard this evidence is by saying that the church somehow after receiving clear instructions from the Apostles and their successors, had somehow went completely astray, and was not corrected until the Seventh Day Adventists came around in the 1800s.
I mean there is not a single Church Father that supports the Seventh Day Adventists views on the Day of Assembly for Christians.
It is also made very clear in the writings of Paul that the external laws of the old covenant had been fullfilled by Christ and made obsolete.
Colossians 2:16 "Then never let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or about observance of annual festivals, New Moons, or Sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what was coming: the reality is the body of Christ.
Hebrews 8:13 "By speaking of a new covenant, he implies that the first one is old. And anything old and aging is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 10:10 He is abolishing the first sort to establish the second.
“After the Caesars were removed from power (476 AD), complete civil and religious authority of the empire was given to the Bishop of Rome (i.e. the pope) who maintained and upheld the same belief regarding Sunday observance”
Again this is just simply a few factual words fused together with pure rhetoric…I have heard these sermons given so many times on the SDA websites, and it is nothing more than wishful thinking;
The simple fact is that the earliest Christians assembled on the First day of the week and celebrated the Eucharist. This was one of the Traditions that the church passed down through the centuries.
I would also like to add that the early Church for the Record did not teach “BIBLE ALONE”. Most Churches did not even have many texts of scripture, and maybe two or so could read them. The Church was built on Oral Tradition, and assisted by Scripture which confirms the traditions.
With regard to the authority of the Church. It has the authority to “BIND AND LOSE” [Matt. 16] and according to the apostle Paul there were traditions which the Church was to head to that were not written in scripture that we were to follow[1 Corinthians 11:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 ] Paul also teaches that these traditions are not traditions of men but God’s[1 Thessalonians 2:13]
I hope this was able to express the historical view of the Church.
God Bless
The only way you could possibly disregard this evidence is by saying that the church somehow after receiving clear instructions from the Apostles and their successors, had somehow went completely astray, and was not corrected until the Seventh Day Adventists came around in the 1800s.
I mean there is not a single Church Father that supports the Seventh Day Adventists views on the Day of Assembly for Christians.
It is also made very clear in the writings of Paul that the external laws of the old covenant had been fullfilled by Christ and made obsolete.
Colossians 2:16 "Then never let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or about observance of annual festivals, New Moons, or Sabbaths. These are only a shadow of what was coming: the reality is the body of Christ.
Hebrews 8:13 "By speaking of a new covenant, he implies that the first one is old. And anything old and aging is ready to disappear.
Hebrews 10:10 He is abolishing the first sort to establish the second.
“After the Caesars were removed from power (476 AD), complete civil and religious authority of the empire was given to the Bishop of Rome (i.e. the pope) who maintained and upheld the same belief regarding Sunday observance”
Again this is just simply a few factual words fused together with pure rhetoric…I have heard these sermons given so many times on the SDA websites, and it is nothing more than wishful thinking;
The simple fact is that the earliest Christians assembled on the First day of the week and celebrated the Eucharist. This was one of the Traditions that the church passed down through the centuries.
I would also like to add that the early Church for the Record did not teach “BIBLE ALONE”. Most Churches did not even have many texts of scripture, and maybe two or so could read them. The Church was built on Oral Tradition, and assisted by Scripture which confirms the traditions.
With regard to the authority of the Church. It has the authority to “BIND AND LOSE” [Matt. 16] and according to the apostle Paul there were traditions which the Church was to head to that were not written in scripture that we were to follow[1 Corinthians 11:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 ] Paul also teaches that these traditions are not traditions of men but God’s[1 Thessalonians 2:13]
I hope this was able to express the historical view of the Church.
God Bless
S
sincereheart
Guest
I am a Seventh-Day Adventist and have grown up among Adventists all of my life, but never have I heard a bitter word or unkind thing spoken from any SDA about about the Catholic people. It’s only some of the Catholic churches major belief’s that we disagree with. A sincere SDA should not be prejudiced against any Catholic because of their differences.
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Big_Dummy
Guest
It is not a matter of speaking against the people, who are catholic. Within SDAism literature the speaking is against the Catholic Church itself. Nice try at handling or managing the critic.
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SDAMisconceptio
Guest
For a further in-depth explanation of key SDA teachings I suggest one goes to www.adventistcultmisconceptions.blogspot.com.
It provides detailed answers to 50 commons accusations of Adventists made by critics. With respect, Adventists themselves over simplify, misrepresent or simply do not really understand some of their more ‘distinctive’ beliefs, which is why to an outsider some of them might seem a little bizarre.
For example, did you know that the SDA Church is fiercely anti-Gnostic, which is a heresy the Roman Catholic Church itself has been trying to combat in one way or the other since Paul’s own time. Adventist approaches to a wholistic approach to theology is increasingly being shared by Christian scholars, including notable Catholic theologians.
In this way, Adventists actually have a lot to agree with Catholics, and in some ways are arguably not just ‘orthodox’ but ‘ultra-orthodox’ in Christian beliefs.
It provides detailed answers to 50 commons accusations of Adventists made by critics. With respect, Adventists themselves over simplify, misrepresent or simply do not really understand some of their more ‘distinctive’ beliefs, which is why to an outsider some of them might seem a little bizarre.
For example, did you know that the SDA Church is fiercely anti-Gnostic, which is a heresy the Roman Catholic Church itself has been trying to combat in one way or the other since Paul’s own time. Adventist approaches to a wholistic approach to theology is increasingly being shared by Christian scholars, including notable Catholic theologians.
In this way, Adventists actually have a lot to agree with Catholics, and in some ways are arguably not just ‘orthodox’ but ‘ultra-orthodox’ in Christian beliefs.
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benidict
Guest
I dont think we agree on much at all. But if you wish, you can find and ressurect the thread " is Adventism Christian?" It would be nice to have an Adventist voice to answer any misconceptions we may have reguarding your movement. I raised the Charges, and have been hoping an Adventist could answer them. Welcome to the forums my friend. Peace :thumbsup
.S. I promise I will be nice 
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sincereheart
Guest
Seventh-Day Adventists have a lot to agree on with Catholics! Or at least I think so. We believe in the Godhead, the Virgin Birth (although not the immaculate conception), the necessity of obeying God, the inspiration of the Bible, the Second Coming of Christ, and the absolute importance of prayer.I dont think we agree on much at all. But if you wish, you can find and ressurect the thread " is Adventism Christian?" It would be nice to have an Adventist voice to answer any misconceptions we may have reguarding your movement. I raised the Charges, and have been hoping an Adventist could answer them. Welcome to the forums my friend. Peace :thumbsup
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benidict
Guest
The Same Trinitarian Godhead? Do we really? Not according to some of your more prolific teachers. Im going to see if I can ressurect the thread. No need to derail this one. Im glad yall are here. Peace to you and yours.
Like I said. I do promise I will not bite. 
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
There is the main SDA denomination, but there are also offshoots that call themselves SDA but are far more stringent than the mainstream SDA denomination. Some of these offshoots consider themselves to be the true SDAs and the consider the denomination to be a daughter of Babylon.
It is possible that this girl’s family belongs to one of these groups. I’m just guessing here, you understand, but she is not behaving like a “normal” SDA would.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
SDAs also believe that the Pope/Church is the anti-christ and the whore of Babylon and by changing the Sabbath to Sunday has or will implement the Mark of the Beast. I have to think whatever minor similarities there may be between the SDA denomination and the Catholic Church are far outweighed by these anti-Catholic doctrines.
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benidict
Guest
Unfortunately they are very minor indeed. This is why I had to reassess how I view them. It was not a pleasure, and certainly not easy to come to some of the conclusions I came to. Many are very lovely people. I pray for them.
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MartinJordan
Guest
My mum (a staunch Catholic) listens to and takes notes from their radio program, from guys like Doug Bachelor, et al. Can learn quite a lot as my mother tells me. But I notice they do not come to any Bible verses that deal with Mother Mary though.
I can see though they do have a veiled hints of anti-Catholicism. But that’s just my opinion.
MJ
I can see though they do have a veiled hints of anti-Catholicism. But that’s just my opinion.
MJ
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LiftHimUp
Guest
To make such a statement is rude and disrespectful to SDA’s. Please do not categorize an entire group of people. I think it’s odd that so many catholics on this site can say whatever they want but when someone of a different faith says something that can be proven, they are banned or sent threatening messages from people who aren’t even moderators.
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LiftHimUp
Guest
Something about this story doesn’t add up. I don’t think that these are all the details. I think there is more to this story. Maybe it had something to do with your parents. It could be anything. I’ve never me a SDA who dislikes catholics but many who dislike catholicism.
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benidict
Guest
Why are you complaining? I am still giving them an opportunity to answer my charges on another thread. Im giving them an open floor. I have once again laid down the gauntlet here. They have only to show up. There are many Mormons on this forum who valiently defend their posititon every day. Many have been here for a long time. Your little quip about people being banned or sent threatening messages does not hold any weight. Invite your pastor to discuss with me if you like. Get your brightest theologian. I will be waiting. are they smarter than a high school graduate? they should easily be able to put me in my place. and quite frankly, I WISH someone could prove me wrong, so I COULD accept them as seperated bretheren. Peace
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