Seventh Day Adventists

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What this thread has turned into is people against me throwing a lot of accusations at me and the Seventh-day Adventist church - most of it false and the part that is true is of little consequence or based on misunderstandings.

Of course I can’t answer all of your questions about the faith (as I have a full time job and wife and child), and I do have answers if you really want to hear them. My question is on the latter half - do you really want to hear them or just want me to hear what you think?

Look, the Seventh-Day Adventist Church has a growth rate of about 11% per year and can now be found in 205 of the 229 countries and areas of the world recognized by the United Nations, with 91.6% of membership living outside of North America. (this was 6 years ago)

Seventh-day Adventists run a large number of hospitals and health related institutions. Their predominant school of medicine in North America is located in Loma Linda, California. In Australia, the church-owned Sanitarium Health Food Company is one of Australia’s leading manufacturers of health and vegetarian-related products.

The cover story of the November 2005 issue of 'National Geographic Magazine discusses the longevity of Adventists, typically from four to ten years longer than non-Adventists. Adventists, along with natives of Okinawa and Sardinia, are the longest-lived people in the world, a trait which has been attributed to health practices as well as the weekly Sabbath as a stress reducer.
there’s got to be more to us than just waking up everyday and “hating Catholics!” We are one of the fastest growing Christian Religions in Latin America. It’s not because we go out and say, “Hey, lets all get together and hate Catholics!” Some of you on this thread have a REALLY WARPED sense of what it is to be a Seventh-Day Adventist.

I’m sure you would say, “Well, as a Seventh-Day Adventist, you must have a warped sense about what it means to be a Catholic” To that I say, “NO I DON’T” My wife is a former Catholic. My Mother-in-law is a Catholic currently. My Father-in-law recently died of brain cancer. I was a pall bearer at his funeral (yes I actually went into a Catholic Church). My parents who are Seventh-Day Adventist loved and supported my in-laws through there time of trouble. This is not unique to loving Seventh-Day Adventists. I work in a Seventh-Day Adventist Hospital. We have a Catholic Priest (paid by the hospital) to minister to our Catholic patients. We (adventist) more than any other relgion respect the need for liberty and freedom of choice when it comes to religion. We respect everyone’s right to worship as they choose. If you want to classify what Seventh-Day adventist think by the actions of a fringe group then go ahead. Just realize that in doing so, you are getting a WARPED sense of reality - this makes you look really dumb when you talk about it to people who are actually Seventh-Day Adventist.

THis is why I refrain from forming judgements about religions based on the people who go to their church. I deal with teachings, doctrines, and theology. THings that are well thought out and testable. Look, during the flood (if you still beleive in it, I do), the ark was the ONLY place to be. YOu can bet, however, that it was a stinky place with poo poo on the floor and smelly animals all over the place. Now, would you say, “This place stinks, let me get outta here and jump over board into the sea.”??? The Seventh-Day Adventist Church has the soundest doctrine, and theology out of any of the world’s relgions. Period. Can it be a smelly at times, yes. I’m sure you can find someone here and there that don’t represent the church’s values. However, I will stand on the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - they are sound doctrines based on Biblical evidence - and they make sense to me. They are ringing even more true right before my eyes as history unfolds even in this very decade.

Peace

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6
 
One more thing.

You have to learn the difference between attacking the teachings of the Catholic Church and “hating Catholics”

Please, there is a difference. Christ taught to hate NO ONE!

If we truly hated Catholics, why are most of our best ministers former Catholics. DId we hate them so much that they wanted to become one of us?

Most of our new converts are former Catholics (especially in Latin America). Same thing?

And another.

There is nothing spectacularly unique about attacking the doctinrine of the Catholic chruch. Luther did it as did most of the reformers. In fact, none of the teachings of the Seventh-Day adentist church about Rome in Revelation are new. ALL of it is from the reformation. We made none of it up. The reformers called the Pope the “anti-Christ” before we did. We didn’t start that. This all shows what we beleive this Seventh-Day Adventist Church to be: namely the
proper continuation of the Reformation to its final conclusion: That is all.

Read this web site for more info:
presenttruthmag.com/7dayadventist/shaking/1.html

Peace
 
Illuminator,

Good to know the SDA’s are growing, that you
know enough about Catholicism since you married
a former one and have stepped inside a church
as a pall bearer.

But really I had friends that were
SDA’s and I researched it in and out from both
sides to include SDA forums. I would be very embarrassed to say that
I had been inside an SDA church as evidence
of my knowledge of their faith and institutional
structure. In fact, 99% of the time, (actually 100%)
when I dialogue Protestants about their faith vs. Catholicism, the usual one thing that uninformed, under read, ill prepared, people say to me is that they know what they are talking about and that they have been in a Catholic Church visa vi a Wedding, or attending Mass once. They think they understand
something but really havent done the homework, hence the ‘I’ve been in your Church before’ statement. Anyone who hasnt done their homework
easily falls prey to the half truths, lies and mud thats
been disproved many times, but keeps getting slung
around all the same because it seems to be the truth.

Very definetly SDA’s as an institution do not practice Anti-Catholicism, but SDA’s of the past
(around 50 years ago) were the worst and this can be related to the writings
of Ellen White who wrote that the end times would be
accompanied by Catholics getting a law passed to enforce pagan Sunday worship and that the SDA’s would be persecuted by them.You still have a wing
of the SDA’s that are troubled by the direction of the
organization in the past 50 years.

Here’s a nugget:
Since the 60’s every Christian denomination
with the exception of Catholicism and Fundamentalists have back slid on the issues
of Abortion or Homosexuality. A church that teaches
backsliding doctrine is not a Church guided by the
Holy Spirit. Your Church and Hospitals condone
and perform abortions for ‘valid personal reasons’.
This is not a lie, hype or sensationalism.

Its one thing to know something because you
went into the Chevy dealership and they told you that Chevies were better than Fords and listed all their faults. Its another issue to go visit the Ford dealership and hear what they have to say and weigh it all out.

Which side of a coin is the prettiest side?
Well for many , it depends on who is teaching you.
 
However, I will stand on the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - they are sound doctrines based on Biblical evidence
Click to expand...
That is what all the other umpteen thousand other protestant groups say too. They all can “prove” their doctrines from the Bible.

Furthermore, how about The Great Controversy? I posted a few reasons why I thought it was bunk and I’d like to know why SDAs think it is so great. After reading the first few chapters (and nothing more so far seems different), I fail to see how any Adventist would understand anything real about the Catholic Church after being taught that kind of National Enquirer style of history.
 
ComradeAndrei,
I too also read the ‘The Great Conroversy’
and used to keep it in my library.
I read it at the suggestion of an SDA friend.

The first few chapters start with a big assumption.
Ellen assumes the reader knows that the Catholic
Church is off the tracks, never goes through any
kind of proof whatsoever, and then lists some heretical
groups in early church history as trying to be restorative, but swatted down by the Catholic church. , then gives major kudos to Martin Luther
and talks about angels floating around him on his duty…
I told my SDA friend that it doesnt make any sense
for me to read this since it doesnt substantiate
in any way whatsoever why the Catholic Church is wrong.

Its just a written to the choir type of book!

As to quoting things, you’ve got to be careful of the sources. Many people use one-liners out of context
to prove what they are trying to achieve with their agenda. Arguing that all sites are created equal and are honest is 100% naive. It goes with the 'I’ve been
in your Church ’ line.

My SDA friend told me about the Catholics before he specifically knew I was Catholic!
He told me that the Catholic Cathecism taught that
there is no salvation except through the Catholic Church.
Well he got that from an SDA site teaching about
the Catholic Church.

Now this one liner sounds really bad to him, because he knows we are save through Chirst alone
and for a whole host of other haughty/evil sounding
reasons.
Howver,
  1. he was right
  2. that was a childrens catechism that was preaching to the choir.
  3. the teaching that there is ‘No Salvation outside the
    Catholic Church’ is a teaching that is summarized by that line, however the actual teaching is that all
    Christian denominations(they have less truth) are imperfectly in union with the Catholic Chuch and that Salvation comes through Chirst and his Church in ths manner. Of course, what I just said is a summarization also.
However, the SDA sites have no vested interest in
telling you this, they just want you to think the worst,
because it suites their purposes. Truth is only spread as far as it serves the goal.

Sort of like going to Ford to hear about Chevies!
 
Sounds like you guys have had your head buried in the sand for quite a while.

You are absolutely right. 50 years ago and even today (you can count be in with them) - The Catholic Church with help from main stream Protestants will set up an image to the Beast and enforce Sunday worship in the United States. It’s already happening. Open your eyes and look.I quote from the Pope himself (the last one that is):

APOSTOLIC LETTER
DIES DOMINI
OF THE HOLY FATHER
JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY AND FAITHFUL
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON KEEPING THE LORD’S DAY HOLY

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html
  1. Finally, it should not be forgotten that even in our own day work is very oppressive for many people, either because of miserable working conditions and long hours — especially in the poorer regions of the world — or because of the persistence in economically more developed societies of too many cases of injustice and exploitation of man by man. When, through the centuries, she has made laws concerning Sunday rest, (109) the Church has had in mind above all the work of servants and workers, certainly not because this work was any less worthy when compared to the spiritual requirements of Sunday observance, but rather because it needed greater regulation to lighten its burden and thus enable everyone to keep the Lord’s Day holy. In this matter, my predecessor Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical Rerum Novarum spoke of Sunday rest as a worker’s right which the State must guarantee. (110)
    In our own historical context there remains the obligation to ensure that everyone can enjoy the freedom, rest and relaxation which human dignity requires, together with the associated religious, family, cultural and interpersonal needs which are difficult to meet if there is no guarantee of at least one day of the week on which people can both rest and celebrate. Naturally, this right of workers to rest presupposes their right to work and, as we reflect on the question of the Christian understanding of Sunday, we cannot but recall with a deep sense of solidarity the hardship of countless men and women who, because of the lack of jobs, are forced to remain inactive on workdays as well.
  2. Through Sunday rest, daily concerns and tasks can find their proper perspective: the material things about which we worry give way to spiritual values; in a moment of encounter and less pressured exchange, we see the true face of the people with whom we live. Even the beauties of nature — too often marred by the desire to exploit, which turns against man himself — can be rediscovered and enjoyed to the full. As the day on which man is at peace with God, with himself and with others, Sunday becomes a moment when people can look anew upon the wonders of nature, allowing themselves to be caught up in that marvellous and mysterious harmony which, in the words of Saint Ambrose, weds the many elements of the cosmos in a “bond of communion and peace” by “an inviolable law of concord and love”. (111) Men and women then come to a deeper sense, as the Apostle says, that “everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer” (1 Tim 4:4-5). If after six days of work — reduced in fact to five for many people — people look for time to relax and to pay more attention to other aspects of their lives, this corresponds to an authentic need which is in full harmony with the vision of the Gospel message. Believers are therefore called to satisfy this need in a way consistent with the manifestation of their personal and community faith, as expressed in the celebration and sanctification of the Lord’s Day.
Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy. In any case, they are obliged in conscience to arrange their Sunday rest in a way which allows them to take part in the Eucharist, refraining from work and activities which are incompatible with the sanctification of the Lord’s Day, with its characteristic joy and necessary rest for spirit and body. (112)

END QUOTE:

So hwy does that catholic chruch have to tell me what day I rest on! What happened to religious liberty?
 
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Beeline:
ComradeAndrei,

The first few chapters start with a big assumption.
Ellen assumes the reader knows that the Catholic
Church is off the tracks, never goes through any
kind of proof whatsoever, and then lists some heretical
groups in early church history as trying to be restorative, but swatted down by the Catholic church. , then gives major kudos to Martin Luther
and talks about angels floating around him on his duty…
I told my SDA friend that it doesnt make any sense
for me to read this since it doesnt substantiate
in any way whatsoever why the Catholic Church is wrong.
Click to expand...
I could have said it better. Because it is precisly for this reason that you fail to understand Seventh-Day Adventists. You have no clue about the Reformation. All you know about is what your church has said about the Reformation.

If you had a working knowledge about the reformation, Seventh-Day Adventism might make more sense to you.

For instance can any of you name the nine identifying points of the 4th Beast in Daniel 7 Of course you can’t. My point is is that you should try. All of the Refomers could. They had no trouble finding a perfect fit either. This belief is not unique to the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - it is beleived by all protestants.

From Beeline:
Good to know the SDA’s are growing, that you
know enough about Catholicism since you married
a former one and have stepped inside a church
as a pall bearer.

This reply is sarcastic and contains little Christian love. If you knew the ciscumstances of which you talk you would be embarrased. Never mind, I’ll forgive you. 🙂

Again I quote from Beeline
A church that teaches
backsliding doctrine is not a Church guided by the
Holy Spirit. Your Church and Hospitals condone
and perform abortions for ‘valid personal reasons’.
This is not a lie, hype or sensationalism.
END QUOTE:

First of all, I am against abortions in any sense unless the mother’s life is in danger (this is usually a rare occurance but it does happen). There is president in the Bible for the Mother’s life above the unborn fetus’ life:

Ex 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Clear as day: The perpretrator is not asked to give his life only if the unborn child’s life is ended - only if the mother’s is.

You, however, miss the entire point. Abortion is not a doctrine! What does it say in Revelation about what the church will be life in the last days. Let’s see:

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Doesn’t sound good. Sounds like God says that his last church in the end times will still have much to be desired in terms of personal qualities however they will have the truth - thus Christ’s Chruch.

Anway, you’ll be glad to know that Catholic Hospitals are also performing abortions:

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=36918
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40465
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4826608.stm
freerepublic.com/forum/a3a38d9d57a8a.htm
sffaith.com/ed/articles/2004/0411mk.htm

With untoward consequences:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1463100#post1463100

“This is not a lie, hype or sensationalism.” Again, it would be good to think about what you say before you post.

Again - anyone know the 9 identifing marks of the 4th Beast in Daniel 7? - If you haven’t got a clue about what I’m talking about then you don’t have a clue about the reformation - Period.
 
Head in the sand?? I’m confused here.
Thats evidence of a end times prophecy by
Ellen White?? , you SDA’s are both paranoid,
cynical and have hard felt beliefs about things
that are not in the Bible. This is not ‘Sola Scriptura’
and that is where it can pass into a cult.
A belief in a charismatic or compelling person.
By the bible she fails the test of a Prophet.

According to your link, the Pope is advocating
against 7 day work weeks and he does so on behalf
of his flock around the world. Which is the largest denomination in the world with a presence in every
country across the globe. But if it feeds your passions, whatever??

Moreover, I fear churches who promote and perform
abortions. Thats simple direct and straight at you. However Ellen White
promised the Seventh Day Adventist movement that
their Church would never seriously go astray and
perservere until the end times unlike other churches.
Is that why you ignore this very serious matter?

My SDA friend lamented over this with me but his
heart was with the SDA’s.
You just throw chaff out when someone brings up
these serious issues.

Do you know of any other scripturally correct
‘Sola Scriptura’ Churches that give a pass on
abortion and perform them in their hospitals?
Actually they may be pretty common at least
the part of giving a pass.

I guess this is the end of what I was hoping was
a serious and direct conversation.
As I stuck to facts and not wild conjecture with you.
I guess your not equipped.
P.S. I’ve stepped inside a SDA hospital before,
so I know the whole enchilada!
Goodday
 
You well know that there are homosexual priests as well:

religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm
michnews.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/236/10636

DO I care about all this!?

NO, it helps no one on the way to truth. I brought this up before with my “ark analogy” (stinky on the inside and deadly on the outside) but I keep hearing you all exclaim that “Seventh-Day adventist are doing abortions” “Seventh-Day adventist are doing abortions” :eek: :eek: :eek: Well surprise surprise! So are Catholic Hosptials!

Get a grip!

If you want to throw around dirt I can do that just as well if not better.

Please lets stick to doctrine, faith, and history - things that we can test and discuss civily. If you want to prove that humans are sinful - you only have to look a few pages into the Holy Scriptures to find that answer.

Lets hope that this thread takes a higher road of discussion and elevates rather than drudges.
 
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Beeline:
Moreover, I fear churches who promote and perform
abortions. Thats simple direct and straight at you.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess that you should fear your own church? :confused:

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=36918
worldnetdaily.com/news/artic…RTICLE_ID=40465
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4826608.stm
freerepublic.com/forum/a3a38d9d57a8a.htm
sffaith.com/ed/articles/2004/0411mk.htm

With untoward consequences:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthre…100#post1463100

The fact that some Catholic Hosptials are not allowed to induce labor is a serious health care problem and it doesn’t live up to “standard of care” in many communities (see link above)

Let’s refresh ourselves on what the SDA chruch says about abortion:

“Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman’s life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.”

adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html

Sounds reasonable to me!
 
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Beeline:
According to your link, the Pope is advocating
against 7 day work weeks and he does so on behalf
of his flock around the world. Which is the largest denomination in the world with a presence in every
country across the globe. But if it feeds your passions, whatever??
Click to expand...
First of all, it is not MY link. It’s your own Pontiffs. Second, I can tell by your “whatever??” statement that you really have no defense for what is called for in the letter. It specfically calls for civil legislation to make Sunday a weekly holiday.

Excuse me! Since when do we have to make laws to protect the majority. Your silence on this issue speaks volumes.

For over a hundred years, the Seventh-Day Adventist church has predicted a day will come in this contry when Sunday observance will be made law. This was at a time when the Catholic CHurch was relatively weak in this country. “How could this ever happen” many scoffed. Well, look again at the site. The pontiff has spoken. Get ready for Sunday Laws.
 
40.png
Beeline:
Head in the sand?? I’m confused here.
Thats evidence of a end times prophecy by
Ellen White?? , you SDA’s are both paranoid,
cynical and have hard felt beliefs about things
that are not in the Bible. This is not ‘Sola Scriptura’
and that is where it can pass into a cult.
A belief in a charismatic or compelling person.
By the bible she fails the test of a Prophet.
Click to expand...
No, no , no

THis is in the Bible. Allow me. The making of a Law for Sunday worship is there:

“…and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.–Daniel 7:23-25”

What is the only law of the ten commandments that has to do with time?

Revelation:
013:017 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. "

Again, I ask any of you to list the 9 identifying signs of the 4th beast of Daniel 7. Can you do it?

What about what the characterisitics of a phophet are?
 
For instance can any of you name the nine identifying points of the 4th Beast in Daniel 7 Of course you can’t. My point is is that you should try. All of the Refomers could. They had no trouble finding a perfect fit either. This belief is not unique to the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - it is beleived by all protestants.
Click to expand...
Anybody can come up with kooky antichrist theories out of the Bible. And yes, I’ve heard all about the “little horn” and the 7 hilled city etc. etc. and it is all a bunch of lies and “fuzzy” interpretation to justify the “Reformer’s” heresies.
First of all, it is not MY link. It’s your own Pontiffs. Second, I can tell by your “whatever??” statement that you really have no defense for what is called for in the letter. It specfically calls for civil legislation to make Sunday a weekly holiday.
Click to expand...
Excuse me! Since when do we have to make laws to protect the majority. Your silence on this issue speaks volumes.
Click to expand...
There we go, off on the Sunday laws thing. Guess what? We used to have Sunday and all the Holy Days of Obligation as “national holidays” so to speak as well in most countries. Sunday was a de facto holiday until businesses found that they could get a bit more money by making Sunday a business day like any other.
For over a hundred years, the Seventh-Day Adventist church has predicted a day will come in this contry when Sunday observance will be made law. This was at a time when the Catholic CHurch was relatively weak in this country. “How could this ever happen” many scoffed. Well, look again at the site. The pontiff has spoken. Get ready for Sunday Laws.
Click to expand...
There’s that good old paranoia! :rolleyes: Get a grip on yourself-besides concern for the souls of our brothers and sisters ensnared in heresy we could care less if you want to observe the Jewish Sabbath. No one wants to force you to worship on Sunday. You want to worship Baal? Knock yourself out. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

So, tell us again why The Great Controversy isn’t all lies, conjecture, half-truths ad naseaum and why E. G. White should be considered anything more than a charlatan? I have yet to see anything about that yet.
For over a hundred years, the Seventh-Day Adventist church has predicted a day will come in this contry when Sunday observance will be made law. This was at a time when the Catholic CHurch was relatively weak in this country. “How could this ever happen” many scoffed. Well, look again at the site. The pontiff has spoken. Get ready for Sunday Laws.
Click to expand...
Wow…The Church is so much bigger than America. We have officiated at the Requiem of many empires, republics, kingdoms etc. and yet we just get stronger. Unless the world ends before then, I don’t see any reason why the Church won’t be still going strong when America keels over.

Of course, once Opus Dei gets a Catholic in the presidency that will move the pope into the White House, we’ll basically have the government under the thumb of Rome (we already basically have the Supreme Court). Then we can turn the Dept. of Homeland Security into the Holy Office of the American Inquisition (ooh…I’m getting goosebumps…) and blah, blah, blah (cue sarcasm)

That is the problem with American religions-they just have to make America have some sort of special divine commission. Just read up on American religious history-its a riot.
Well surprise surprise! So are Catholic Hosptials!
Click to expand...
Certainly not with the approval of the Church. Sadly, many Catholic hospitals are no longer really under Church control, they basically remain “Catholic” in name only.
Sounds reasonable to me!
Click to expand...
Well, what is “reasonable” to man can be most unreasonable to God. “You have been my guide since I was first formed . . . from my mother’s womb you are my God” (Psalm 22:10-11).

Let us really get back to theology or history. Let’s talk about The Great Controversy.
 
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illuminator:
Revelation:
013:017 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. "

Again, I ask any of you to list the 9 identifying signs of the 4th beast of Daniel 7. Can you do it?

What about what the characterisitics of a phophet are?
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with anything? I have good friends who are in the SDA church. I have been to their service several times. I have never seen the anger in any of them that I see in your postings. If you are an example of a SDA member, it’s no wonder Maria broke up with him. I truly understand defending your faith, remember, it is said that it is easier to catch flies with honey than vinigar.

I don’t think it matters which day of the week you set a side for the Lord, as long as you set aside one day for him. As as for “everyday being the Lords day” the priest was right. We should live everyday as though it was the the Lords day. We should show our faith each and every day.
 
ComradeAndrei said "Anybody can come up with kooky antichrist theories out of the Bible. And yes, I’ve heard all about the “little horn” and the 7 hilled city etc. etc. and it is all a bunch of lies and “fuzzy” interpretation to justify the “Reformer’s” heresies. "

Perhaps you could enlighten us on how these theories are wrong - or better yet maybe the correct intrepretation of them?

Maybe you don’t know what the 9 signs are? Why don’t you want to talk about it?

and this
"There’s that good old paranoia! Get a grip on yourself-besides concern for the souls of our brothers and sisters ensnared in heresy we could care less if you want to observe the Jewish Sabbath. No one wants to force you to worship on Sunday. You want to worship Baal? Knock yourself out. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. "

Really, why did the Catholic church care so much in previous years/centuries:

The Roman Catholic Church has traditionally suppressed, opposed, and forbidden the open use of the Bible. It was first officially forbidden to the people and placed on the index of Forbidden Books List by the Council of Valencia in 1229 A.D. The Council of Trent (1545-63 A.D.) also prohibited its use and pronounced a curse upon anyone who would dare oppose this decree. Many popes have issued decrees forbidding Bible reading in the common language of the people, condemning Bible societies and banning its possession and translation under penalty of mortal sin and death. The Roman Catholic Church has openly burned Bibles and those who translated it or promoted its study, reading, and use (John Hus, 1415 A.D.; William Tyndale, 1536 A.D.)

Why would they do this? Have they changed?

You think you know about the Reformation but you are ignorant. Even your sarcasim at what you think I hold true is not:

you said "Of course, once Opus Dei gets a Catholic in the presidency that will move the pope into the White House, we’ll basically have the government under the thumb of Rome (we already basically have the Supreme Court). Then we can turn the Dept. of Homeland Security into the Holy Office of the American Inquisition (ooh…I’m getting goosebumps…) and blah, blah, blah (cue sarcasm) "

First of all, if you knew anything about revelation, it predicts that an **image ** of the 4th beast would be set up. NOT THE FOURTH BEAST ITSELF. So , the pope as president, even though you meant it in gest shows how really far off you are (as opposed to some of your other collegues that I have been having some nice civilized conversations with on this thread - before you arrived).

Please read and understand what I am saying before you open your mouth spill sarcastic dripping venum (Oh, I’ve read that before and blah blah blah). You haven’t even let me discuss the topic of Daniel 7 before you have already said that I’m a paranoid heretic. - maybe this was your point. You have two ears to hear and only one mouth to speak.

I really do hope that the other readers on this post are a little more polite and actually want to have a conversation about topics before cutting me off. If not, there is not much point in me continuing on this thread.
 
Dear Illuminator,

Your postings are so full of anger. I will be praying that your heart wil be filled with peace, rather than anger.

I suggest you read the book What Catholics Really Believe by Karl Keating. This book answers 52 misperceptions about the Catholic Faith and I highly recommend it. It is clear you have many misperceptions and Karl Keating can correct these misperceptions in a much better way than I can.

Beginning on page 29, Keating addresses your misperception that lay Catholics were not allowed to read the Bible. It is quite the opposite. In fact, as Keating points out, the Bible is a Catholic book wriitten for Catholics. If you read Pope Pius xiis 1943 enclyclical, found in the beginning of most Catholic Bibles, you will also note that it instructs Catholics to read the Bible. Moreover, Pope Leo XIIIs 1893 enclyclical on the study of scripture illustrates that a complete Catholic is one that reads the Bible. From the earliest times popes, councils, saints and Catholic scholars have encouraged Bible reading.

I could go on and on, but this is all the time I have for this morning.

If you would like to correct your misperceptions, I reccommend this book. I have found it very useful.

I also recommend that if you have specific questions on Catholicism, you open a new thread.

Again, I pray that your heart will be filled with peace rather than anger.
 
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illuminator:
ComradeAndrei said "Anybody can come up with kooky antichrist theories out of the Bible. And yes, I’ve heard all about the “little horn” and the 7 hilled city etc. etc. and it is all a bunch of lies and “fuzzy” interpretation to justify the “Reformer’s” heresies. "

Perhaps you could enlighten us on how these theories are wrong - or better yet maybe the correct intrepretation of them?

Maybe you don’t know what the 9 signs are? Why don’t you want to talk about it?

and this
"There’s that good old paranoia! Get a grip on yourself-besides concern for the souls of our brothers and sisters ensnared in heresy we could care less if you want to observe the Jewish Sabbath. No one wants to force you to worship on Sunday. You want to worship Baal? Knock yourself out. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. "

Really, why did the Catholic church care so much in previous years/centuries:

The Roman Catholic Church has traditionally suppressed, opposed, and forbidden the open use of the Bible. It was first officially forbidden to the people and placed on the index of Forbidden Books List by the Council of Valencia in 1229 A.D. The Council of Trent (1545-63 A.D.) also prohibited its use and pronounced a curse upon anyone who would dare oppose this decree. Many popes have issued decrees forbidding Bible reading in the common language of the people, condemning Bible societies and banning its possession and translation under penalty of mortal sin and death. The Roman Catholic Church has openly burned Bibles and those who translated it or promoted its study, reading, and use (John Hus, 1415 A.D.; William Tyndale, 1536 A.D.)

Why would they do this? Have they changed?

You think you know about the Reformation but you are ignorant. Even your sarcasim at what you think I hold true is not:

you said "Of course, once Opus Dei gets a Catholic in the presidency that will move the pope into the White House, we’ll basically have the government under the thumb of Rome (we already basically have the Supreme Court). Then we can turn the Dept. of Homeland Security into the Holy Office of the American Inquisition (ooh…I’m getting goosebumps…) and blah, blah, blah (cue sarcasm) "

First of all, if you knew anything about revelation, it predicts that an **image ** of the 4th beast would be set up. NOT THE FOURTH BEAST ITSELF. So , the pope as president, even though you meant it in gest shows how really far off you are (as opposed to some of your other collegues that I have been having some nice civilized conversations with on this thread - before you arrived).

Please read and understand what I am saying before you open your mouth spill sarcastic dripping venum (Oh, I’ve read that before and blah blah blah). You haven’t even let me discuss the topic of Daniel 7 before you have already said that I’m a paranoid heretic. - maybe this was your point. You have two ears to hear and only one mouth to speak.

I really do hope that the other readers on this post are a little more polite and actually want to have a conversation about topics before cutting me off. If not, there is not much point in me continuing on this thread.
Click to expand...
Peace be with you.

I’ve drifted on and off here, but what, exactly, are the issues concerning you? This thread is like a plate of tangled spaghetti anymore.

As succinctly as possible, what is/are the issue(s)?

If there are not any, other than hurling grenades at one another, then let’s move on.

Thanks.
 
arial black

Hi! I obviously am Adventist and I just had a couple things to say. I have been reading your threads for quite a while and I just had a few comments. I have been a member of the church since I was 9 and I have attended church regularly since. I have also been to seminars and evangelistic meetings. And I have NEVER heard ANY Adventist say that they dislike, hate, or pity Catholics. The conversations I have been a part of have always been those of love and peace. This is not a religion to be thought of as “the ones that hate us”.
We do believe that the church in the higher levels does have some apostacies, but to the everyday Catholic who does not bear the weight of thousands upon thousands of souls on their head; they have only their own and will be judged as such.
There is no TRUE Adventist who would say that Catholics are not making it to paradise. For he has many sheep, not all of one fold. AMEN? I hope that you can understand the Illuminator??'s objective in here is not to upset you, but to direct you to some of the Catholic quotes that many do not know about. In a hope of either causing you to ask questions, or to make you stronger in your faith. But as anyone entering a “room” of those who have different ideas than you, the road to going on the defensive, is short!
Well thats my 2 cents. I just want you to know that I read the section on Adventism and the quotes are accurate. Though taken out of context and not presented in their paragraphs, those are our core beleifs. But to make it sound like we hate you or do not consider you family in Jesus, is wrong. Thanks for reading
 
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dhgray:
OK I"LL BITE, what are the 9 signs of the 4th beast?
Click to expand...
And by the way, thank you for being honest about the church. I appreciated your comments. No matter what you believe, how can you bring anyone to God thru paranoia and hate? Neither of our institutions should display such. Dont you agree?
 
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