Seventh Day Adventists

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illuminator:
Don’t have time to fully research my sources until tonight. Here is something to look at until then:

elca.org/ecumenical/ecumenicaldialogue/romancatholic/vision_statement.html

Notice the term “full reconciliation” in print.

I may have mis spoke and said that Luther is a Saint. I think that he is on the long track to becoming a saint - I’ll look though. The point is that there is a concerted effort to bring the “daughter” back to the “mother” by both sides (although there are some Lutherans who are mortified at the idea).
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A perfect example of misrepresentation of the Catholic Church! How you get the idea that Luther is on any track to be sainted from this article is beyond me. Where is this apology? It is called Eecumenical dialogue, and the only way for full reconciliation to work is if they become Catholic.

Peace! 👍
 
You should read the book “The Great Controversy” by Ellen G White. Read it looking at it from two different views. The first view being from a Catholic aspect. You will be astounded that someone could so grossly represent the Catholic Church. It was so bad it made me cry that someone would even believe such things about the Church that Jesus Christ established.
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Yep, I’d recommend Catholics strong and knowledgable in their faith who want to know something about what SDA’s think of our Faith to read this book too. I’ve been reading it, and so far I’m to the part about Luther. I have a bunch of other books I’m reading at the same time, so I’m kinda taking it slow. However, as far as I’ve got in it I can tell you that about 99% of it consists of lies, half-truths, spin, and sensationalism. Historically and theologically speaking, it is absolutely horrendous.

However, I can see why SDA’s don’t like the Catholic Church if this kind of garbage is their only source on Catholicism. I have a more modern copy and I must applaud them for at least citing some actual authoritative Catholic sources, but I don’t see how any SDA could possibly look into those sources objectively after being so roundly propagandized. It also has a bunch of pictures trying to link up Catholicism and paganism (ala Hislop and Boettner) which would be pretty funny if it was in a parody paper or magazine, but since they are being serious it is just sad 😦 .

As to Luther being made a saint-absolutely not. He had his chance 500 some odd yrs ago. Granted, you won’t hear many Catholics refer to Luther as the spawn of Satan or the Devil’s mouthpiece anymore, but most sides have toned down the smack talk and polemics.

As to ecumenism, I read a good book on this subject written in 1960 (can’t remember the title right off) by a Protestant minister and an orthodox Jesuit (yep, they did and still do exist!) and that is what the priest stressed-Catholic ecumenism boils down into everyone coming back to Rome. That is still the stance of Holy Mother Church-it can be no other way. There can be no “Catholic Protestant Church” because the Catholic Church (by its very nature) cannot deny any of the doctrines revealed to us by God.

However, it is a good thing that we get together and talk about our differences and similarities-to see where we are all coming from and to build up mutual trust and good will.
 
I’m not the only one who has heard of a rumor of Luthor beiong a saint:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=53586

Recently the Roman Church praised Martin Luther as a “witness to the Gospel, a teacher in faith and as someone calling for spiritual renewal.” see here

latter-rain.com/archive/10-25-2000.htm

John Paul also will meet with Protestant leaders in the land of Martin Luther – who led the Protestant break from the church in the 16th century – and preside at a prayer service for Catholics and Lutherans. One recent report in the German press claimed that the pope had planned to lift the excommunication of Luther during the trip, but was persuaded not to by his bishops. see here:

christusrex.org/www2/news-old/6-96/es6-21-96.html

Apologizing about the Reformation (from Lutherans):

whatyoudodoquickly.blogspot.com/2005/10/mourning-reformation.html

Of course some Lutherans are not happy about this:

lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/mediate.pdf

So again, I’m not mis-representing anything. It’s there - take time to read.
 
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ComradeAndrei:
However, as far as I’ve got in it I can tell you that about 99% of it consists of lies, half-truths, spin, and sensationalism. Historically and theologically speaking, it is absolutely horrendous.
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Really, what part is? (specifically)
 
Dear Maria,

To answer your question, 2 Cor 6:14 is used all the time in the SDA church. Anyone can take scripture out of context and use it for there benifit. Just look at the 33,000 or more protestant denominations. There is only 1 Catholic church. Amen!

To Illiluminator:

smugness: meaning complacent or self satified.

You state that you have confidence in your faith.
But you then state your inlaws take their religion very seriously.
The Adventist have faith.
The Catholics have religion.
Interesting.
I do not wish to be petty, but that is how you came across.

To your question of why I left:
After being in the SDA church and studing a little less than 2 decades. IT WAS DEFINATELY DOCTRINAL!!!

Dear Illuminator, NEVER EVER take a church or anyone’s word.
STUDY History, search, read as much as you can, pray, weep, ask God The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, for guidance. I thought I was going to live all of my remaining days in the SDA church. I did, I really did, but I was poor, blind, wretched, miserable and naked as scripture states. Until the day the scales fell off my eyes and it took nearly 20 years to do it.

WARNING: When the SDA church cannot answer questions posed to them about doctrin, or church writings, something is very, very wrong.
Here are some websites you can look to if you are interested.
www.formeradventist.com
ellenwhite.org
sdaoutreach.org/

Growing In Christ Jesus and His Catholic Church
Ruth1:16

I will lift you and your family up in prayer Illuminator.
 
What I find interesting is that Ellen White proclaimed herself a prophet(ess) and now has millions following her. And like so many Protestant religions, SDA’s mostly define their doctrines as opposing Catholic ones. When talking to many SDA’s this is how they explain their faith to me: by opposing Catholic doctrines.

Illuminator, while I respect you coming here, and being very civil, I must reccommend that you read the history of the Church. You will find things such as Sunday worship and other Catholic Doctrines being practiced since the earliest of days.
 
I have read the history of the church (Catholic)

I know quite well the contents of:

ellenwhite.org
sdaoutreach.org/

I hope you don’t subsrcibe to the ideas contained therin because most if not all of what is said are deceptions.

For instance on ellenwhite.org/gc1.htm is states that basically nothing of Catholic/Rome importance happened in 538 AD. Yet if you type in “538 AD” into Yahoo. The first entry is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/538 stating that

“Witiges, king of the Ostrogoths ends his siege of Rome and retreats to Ravenna, leaving the city in the hands of the victorious Roman general, Belisarius” So did they forget to talk about this? Or did they purposely overlook this?

Again the ellenwhite.org/gc1.htm site says “Now that we have established that the 538 date corresponds to nothing significant in history…”

When clearly, out of all the things that happened in 538 wikipedia puts it at the top of the list for that year as being significant.

I could give you many more examples of this but it would take to long. They have an agenda - this is not the place to look for truth exposed - more like the place for truth “proposed”

This is the kind of deception that reigns true at these sort of web sites. SO I would ask you to “NEVER EVER take a church or anyone’s word. STUDY History, search, read as much as you can, pray, weep, ask God The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, for guidance.”

For jaz1976, I have read the church doctrines. You wouldn’t think that I would come to a Catholic web site with knowing first Catholic doctrine? would you? I know that there are a few things that are practiced in the Catholic Church that have NO basis in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. That’s why there is “Tradition” For example, the pracitice of the Lord’s Day on Sunday. I know that there is no evidence for Sunday observance in the Bible from end to end but that the Catholic Church keeps this day Holy becuase of Tradition. I know that this is the case because most of the Catechisms teach this. I don’t assume things about you belief - I read your doctrinal literature.

A final note about being a Seventh-Day Adventist. I am not one because I like the name, or I like being confused with Jehovah’s Witnesses, or being called a “non Christian” mistakenly by some people on this web site because I don’t beleive in the Trinity and the diety of Christ (again confusing with JW). I am a Seventh-Day Adventist becuase I beleive in sola scriptura and I believe that the Seventh-Day Adventist church holds most closely to that principle. More than any other church in existance today. If you were to show me a church that mroe closely holds to that, I would move my membership tommorow. Sure there will be bad people in my church. That’s because we are all sinners. The Ark of the Flood was a pretty stinky place to be in - however, it was the ONLY place to be in if you wanted to live - so just because the church you are in has bad people in it - it doesn’t mean that the doctrines are wrong. OH, yeah, I forgot, you are probably going to misconstrue that statement to beleive that I am saying that the Adventist church is the ark and that you are all outside - PLEASE - I’M NOT SAYING THIS.
 
Dear Illuminator,

Very sorry to upset you so much. Just as you came on this website to give your perspective, I gave mine. I hope you can forgive me. I hope you can understand, my struggle to leave the SDA church was extremely hard, I left behind my whole family, and all of my friends. I had to step out in Faith. I am going forward in my journey , and it has brought me home to the Catholic Church, of which I am a member. Christ Jesus is the only answer and I can have a closer relationship with Him every day if I choose, in the Holy Eucharist, prayer and bible study. I want to grow closer to Him. And NO Illuminator my ears were not tickled with strange doctrin I wanted to hear. I know the SDA church teaches there will be those who leave the SDA church will be lost and you must understand that Ellen White and her writings are hurtful to Catholics. I know one day I will see His Face, I love my Lord and Savoir with my entire heart.

Sincerely
In The Love of Christ
Ruth1:16
At Home In His Catholic Church
 
Not upset at all - keep listening to the Holy Spirit. God Bless you all.
 
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illuminator:
I have read the history of the church (Catholic)

For jaz1976, I have read the church doctrines. You wouldn’t think that I would come to a Catholic web site with knowing first Catholic doctrine? would you? I know that there are a few things that are practiced in the Catholic Church that have NO basis in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. That’s why there is “Tradition” For example, the pracitice of the Lord’s Day on Sunday. I know that there is no evidence for Sunday observance in the Bible from end to end but that the Catholic Church keeps this day Holy becuase of Tradition.
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Ahem. Did you really read the whole Bible ?? The practice of the Lord’s Day IS in the Bible…or maybe you came across it but didn’t know what it meant.
 
When I first wanted to learn the basics beliefs of SDAs, I read the article on SDA that is listed on the Catholic Answers Homepage under the Library section. I realize that most of you have read this already, but wonder if our former-SDA members, and current SDA members view this as an accurate summary of SDA beliefs. I found it to be very helpful.

catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp
 
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illuminator:
I’m not the only one who has heard of a rumor of Luthor beiong a saint:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=53586.
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This site said nothing about Luther being a saint…at least not from the Church. Don’t MIS-represent what you read.
Recently the Roman Church praised Martin Luther as a “witness to the Gospel, a teacher in faith and as someone calling for spiritual renewal.” see here

latter-rain.com/archive/10-25-2000.htm

John Paul also will meet with Protestant leaders in the land of Martin Luther – who led the Protestant break from the church in the 16th century – and preside at a prayer service for Catholics and Lutherans. One recent report in the German press claimed that the pope had planned to lift the excommunication of Luther during the trip, but was persuaded not to by his bishops. see here:

christusrex.org/www2/news-old/6-96/es6-21-96.html

Apologizing about the Reformation (from Lutherans):

whatyoudodoquickly.blogspot.com/2005/10/mourning-reformation.html

Of course some Lutherans are not happy about this:

lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/mediate.pdf

So again, I’m not mis-representing anything. It’s there - take time to read.
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You said:
" If you will recall that Luther has now been made a Saint of the Catholic Church "

None of the sites you give indicate such nonsense. Take care that you do not give outright lie!
 
I already said that I meant that that he was in the process of being made a saint (notice first reference on previous post and post prior to that). Anyway, my point was that the Lutheran church is coming togethter with the Catholic church and aparently putting differences aside (Luther would still be rolling over in his grave). I couldn’t find anything on the internet in the limited time of my search but evidently I am not the only one who has heard this. AGAIN: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=53586

Regarding the Lord’s Day in the Bible. Please show me specifically in the Bible where the “Lord’s Day” was honored. I can’t seem to find it and the neither can the Catholic Church offically (according to their literature).
 
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illuminator:
I already said that I meant that that he was in the process of being made a saint (notice first reference on previous post and post prior to that). Anyway, my point was that the Lutheran church is coming togethter with the Catholic church and aparently putting differences aside (Luther would still be rolling over in his grave). I couldn’t find anything on the internet in the limited time of my search but evidently I am not the only one who has heard this. AGAIN: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=53586

Regarding the Lord’s Day in the Bible. Please show me specifically in the Bible where the “Lord’s Day” was honored. I can’t seem to find it and the neither can the Catholic Church offically (according to their literature).
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Peace

bringyou.to/apologetics/num56.htm#LORDSDAY
 
Hey I, checked out the site (one I have already seen). In it he admits, “it is difficult proving from the Bible alone that the phrase means necessarily “the first day of the week” or Sunday, the Day of the Lord’s glorious Resurrection.” - I’m glad that he mentions that - because it is true. It is VERY hard.

In multiple places in the Bible it says that the Sabbath is on Saturday, that we are to remember this, and that it is an eternal sign of his creation. You would think that if this were to change in the New Testament that there would be some text to this effect therin. There is not.

Elsewhere in the web site that you have given me it says,
“If Tony Lee wants to push this interpretation [that the Lord’s day is the Sabbath], I would ask him to produce a single non-SdA commentary that supports it. To my knowledge, there are none since there is no basis for Lord’s Day = Sabbath.”

Well how about an interpretation from a Catholic Publication that says something to the same effect (that would classify as “non SDA” - wouldn’t it?). From the Baltimore Catholic Mirror:

“The Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists are witnesses of their weekly desecration of the day named by God so repeatedly, and whilst [Protestant Bible Christians] have ignored and condemned their teacher, the Bible, they have adopted a day kept by the Catholic Church. What Protestant can, after perusing these articles, with a clear conscience, continue to disobey the command of God, enjoining Saturday to be kept, which command his teacher, the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, records as the will of God?”

And that of this:

“The Israelites, scattered all over the earth, keep the last day of the week sacred to the worship of the Deity. In this particular, the Seventh-day Adventists (a sect of Christians numerically few) have also selected the same day.”

"Israelites and Adventists both appeal to the Bible for the divine command, persistently obliging the strict observance of Saturday. The Israelite respects the authority of the Old Testament only, but the Adventist, who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old: viz., an inspired record also. He finds that the Bible, his teacher, is consistent in both parts, that the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday. The Gospels plainly evince to him this fact; whilst, in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse, not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement can be found."

“The Adventists, therefore, in common with Israelites, derive their belief from the Old Testament, which position is confirmed by the New Testament, endorsing fully by the life and practice of the Redeemer and His apostles the teaching of the Sacred Word for nearly a century of the Christian era.”

"Numerically considered, the Seventh-day Adventists form an insignificant portion of the Protestants population of the earth, but, as the question is not one of numbers, but of truth, and right, a strict sense of justice forbids the condemnation of this little sect without a calm and unbiased investigation; this is none of our funeral. "

The Catholic Mirror 1893 (September 2nd)

Again, there is no Biblical basis for the Lord’s Day (this is even agreed apon in the Catholic Church) - at least I thought.
 
I thought that these were relevant components of the article:

Ignatius (30-107 AD) writes,

“Let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all the days (of the week)” [ANF:1:63].

Justin [Martyr] (110-165 AD), writing of the day on which the saints met for worship identified it as

“Sunday…the first day…and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead” [ANF:1:168].

The Teaching of the Twelve [or Didache c. 70-140 AD]:

“But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread” [ANF:7:381].

Clement [of Alexandria] (153-217 AD), writing against the Gnostics, identifies the Lord’s day with the resurrection, saying,

“He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the Gospel, keeps the Lord’s day…glorifying the Lord’s resurrection” [ANF:2:545].

Tertullian (145-220 AD) identifies “the Lord’s day” as “every eighth day” [ANF:3:70].

Constitution of the Holy Apostles (250-325 AD):

“And on the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s day, meet more diligently” [ANF:7:423]; and

“on the day of the resurrection of the Lord, that is, the Lord’s day, assemble yourselves together, without fail” [ibid, 471].

CCC - 2174. Jesus rose from the dead “on the first day of the week” [Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1]. Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath [Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1], it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) – Sunday:

“We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.” [St. Justin Martyr, I Apol 67; MPG 6:429,432]
 
Yes, I know. Maybe you are not fully understanding what I am saying and that is what the problem is. All of these quotes are from non Biblical sources as to why Sunday is kept. They all say something about keeping the first day of the week because Jesus rose form the dead.

Remember that he rested on Sabbath. Just like he told us to do.

What I am saying is there is no **Biblical ** evidence for Sunday as the Lord’s day. Which is important if Protestants are going to follow sola scriptura. For Catholics, it’s no big deal because you don’t follow Sola scriptura. You follow Tradition above the Bible. (right?)
 
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illuminator:
Yes, I know. Maybe you are not fully understanding what I am saying and that is what the problem is. All of these quotes are from non Biblical sources as to why Sunday is kept. They all say something about keeping the first day of the week because Jesus rose form the dead.

Remember that he rested on Sabbath. Just like he told us to do.

What I am saying is there is no **Biblical ** evidence for Sunday as the Lord’s day. Which is important if Protestants are going to follow sola scriptura. For Catholics, it’s no big deal because you don’t follow Sola scriptura. You follow Tradition above the Bible. (right?)
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Tradition, the Bible, and the Magesterium. Think of it as a stool. Ever try to sit on a one-legged stool? Tough balancing act.
 
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illuminator:
I already said that I meant that that he was in the process of being made a saint …but evidently I am not the only one who has heard this. AGAIN: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=53586
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“In the process…” You’re still not even close to what you made about your previous claim. There is no process of anything concerning Luther. He’s a heretic and a schismatic.

You keep refering to the given site as if it’s really something and it’s not. Why do you ignore the statement:
“it is highly doubtful that Luther would be considered a candidate for sainthood.”

Enough of the ridiculous claim.
 
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illuminator:
Yes, I know. Maybe you are not fully understanding what I am saying and that is what the problem is. All of these quotes are from non Biblical sources as to why Sunday is kept. They all say something about keeping the first day of the week because Jesus rose form the dead.

Remember that he rested on Sabbath. Just like he told us to do.

What I am saying is there is no **Biblical **evidence for Sunday as the Lord’s day. Which is important if Protestants are going to follow sola scriptura. For Catholics, it’s no big deal because you don’t follow Sola scriptura. You follow Tradition above the Bible. (right?)
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What do you mean there is no Biblical evidence?? It’s in there…keep looking.

“Tradition above the Bible”. You think the Bible fell from the sky. It is because of Tradition that the Bible existed. You think you have nothing that belongs to Catholic. The Bible itself came from Catholic C. If you accept the Bible, that means you accept Tradition.

Give credit where credit is due please.
 
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