Seventh-day Sabbath Questions And Answers

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Well you should also be doing these things or you may be stoned:

It was to be kept from sunset to sunset (Lev. 23:32)
-No burden was to be carried (Jer. 17:21)
-No fire kindled (Ex. 35:3)
-No Cooking done (Ex. 16:23)
-The penalty for doing any of these things during the Sabbath was DEATH (Numbers 15).

Your only sharing part of the picture friend…
You make a great point Michael. Jesus fulfilled the old law, and with the New Covenant freed us. We follow the law of Christ. Jesus submitted to the law so that he might redeem those under the law NOT so we would be submitted to the yoke of its slavery (Gal 4 and 5). For the whole law was fulfilled in one statement, namely “you shall love your neighbors as yourself.”

To keep the sabbath holy, has a connection with, and points to the commandment of love, becaused if one wants to love like Jesus had, one most know how he loves us, and this recognition stems from the seventh day, and not its position in the line. The act of love does not depend on a mathematical order, even though Adventists claim it does.

I recommend the OP read the book An Adventist and a Catholic, to better understand the Catholic position on the sabbath. It is a great book, and fairly represents the Adventist and Catholic viewpoints.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Great work here Maria, I think you have brought forth some really good points:)
 
Thank you for your kind words Michael! In rereading my posts, I realized I need to be more careful about typos and spell chekcing though! haha. That bok, an Adventist and a Catholic, is excellent and is an easy read. I had to order it from a book store in Canada, but it was only around $8. Every Catholic, who knows an Adventist, and vice versa, should read it.

I fully recognize it is the Holy Spirit, and not a post from me, that will truly shed light on the Catholic viewpoint for Adventists. It is hard to study something with an open mind when you may have internalized some myths about Catholicism. But when we study the Early Church Fathers, it shows that the Catholic position has the backing of the Early Chruch Fathers and Tradition. Moreover, nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say we are bound to continue to keep the content of the Sabbath on Saturday. Rather, the Apostles teach us not to judge what day we worship the Lord on. But since Adventists do not take into account the teachings of the early Church, oral tradition, etc., they still are not able to fully understand why we worship on Sunday.

I don`t care what day Adventists choose to worship on, I just hope they will respect our decision. However, I do feel sad when Scripture is taken out of context. It really needs to be read as a whole.

It is ironic because some non-Catholic Christians say we are too legalistic. But I feel liberated as a Catholic. I can rely on two thousand years of Catholic teaching to help me understand Scripture, without having to rely on my personal, perhaps flawed, interpretation. Rather, it seems non-Catholic Christians who still feel we are bound by the old law that seem legalistic. (Not to mention a contradiction. As you may know, Adventists do take pictures, and use illustrations in their evangelical materials. There is nothing wrong with that, it just seems like a contradiction to pick and choose what laws one will follow from the Old Creation, even though it has been fullfilled.

I have read a lot of Adventist work on the sabbath question. It seems filled with contradiction, since it uses certain Scripture to make its point, while ignoring Scripture that illustrates otherwise.

I know our Adventist brothers and sisters mean well, and I appreciate their concern. I am glad some choose to participate at CAF. It has definitely helped me learn more about Adventism.

It is already Easter in Japan. So happy Easter everyone!!

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
For an excellent book comparing Catholic and Adventist teaching on Sunday and the Saturday sabbath, I recommend reading An Adventist and a Catholic. The author is Paul Eirene.
Contact information for ordering the book is below:

Ave Maria Press
P.O. Box 489, Sation U
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M8Z 5Y8

416-251-4245 or 1-800-663-Mary
Fax 416-253-0480

The ISBN number is 0-9684895-6-7

It is well worth the effort of getting the book and it costs less than ten dollars. I recommend ordering several, so you can share it with your Adventist friends and family.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
Happy Easter Maria and thank you for having a spirit of humility and love in dealing with this topic, the world will see Christ in that. Add the SDA’s here at the board and thgroughout the world to your parayers and novenas, never forget them in your prayers. My friends who are SDA or ex SDA are very special people with great enthusiasm for life, health and so many wonderful things. Entrust them to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. God bless!
 
Dear Michael,

Thank you for your very thoughtful and important reminder on keeping Adventists in our prayers. I pray for them every day and said a special prayer for them at Easter Mass yesterday. Like you, I know many wonderful Adventists and former-Adventists. They are wonderful people with a true love for Jesus, and their enthusiasm and dedication to God is very inspiring.

I often ask St. Monica for her intercession when I pray for Adventists, and all of our non-Catholic Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters. Prayer is the best thing we can do for anyone!!

Thank you for your email and for encouragement!

Sincerely,

Maria
 
Hey, thanks. I appreciate this. I think, if I understand the gist of these CCC references; Catholicism is saying they didn’t actually change the sabbath, per se; rather, preferring to just say they changed “the observance” of the day. Am I correct on that point?

I don’t get why Catholocism would have authority to make such a change in the observance of the day. To me, the whole essence of the commandment is tied up within the “seventh-day” concepts mentioned in the Bible. The 6 different meeting the Apostles had on Sunday don’t actually say anything about changing the day, or changing the observance thereof.

I do realize that, as Catholics prefer to teach it, the first time anyone formally recognized and taught, orally, and in writing, about the change to Sunday, it did not come from a Pope. I was more asking which Pope first gave official recommendation, in writing, to this change? For eg., did the very first Pope write about it? if not, who did this first? I would like to read what he wrote and when he wrote it.

Because the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, trumps the creation of the world - so the Sunday, trumps the old Sabbath​

 
Saturday is the sabbath. It has always been the sabbath and it will always be the sabbath. As I understand it, Catholics teach that Sunday - as the eigth day, and the day on which our Lord rose from the dead - is termed the Lord’s day. It wasn’t a pope that first taught that we should worship on the Sunday instead of the Saturday, but the apostles themselves. I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of evidence in the Acts of the Apostles that they did this.

In worshipping on the Sunday, Catholics can keep the third Commandment - ie fulfil the sabbath obligation as it were.
I would like to tell you and all who read this post that there are no biblical reasons why the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The verses used in the new testiment to support this are misunderstood and I would be happy to explain them if anyone wants to quote one to me. Or better yet, I will post all of them on this forum and explain each one, (sometime in the next few days). The official Catholic stance on this issue is this:

There is no evidence in the bible of the day being changed.
The Papacy changed the solemnity of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday by the popes authority only. He claims devine right to change anything in the bible he deems necessary. That is why the second commandment regarding idols has been removed from the ten commandments. I believe that the Sabbath in a normal bible is the fourth commandment. In a Catholic bible it now sits at # 3. To be a Cotholic is to acknowledge that the pope is the divine authority of both your soul and doctrine. Feel free to challenge me on this but I have official doctrine stamped by the papacy to support my claim. I would post it now but I don’t have it with me at this moment. Will post it later, with the resources I’m using.

A catholic bishop (can’t remember his name, but WILL post it later when I get to my notes… I’m at applebees right now 😉 ) said himself, that there is no authority in the bible to back up the change, just that the pope claims the authority to do it.

Now if your Catholic that should be fine with you because you believe in his (pope) authority to do that. If your not, then I ask you this, can you give me a good reason why you still continue to worship on Sunday? Just curious… it has always confused me, (outside of the fact that most people have the tendancy to just follow what everyone else is doing without questioning it).
 
I would like to tell you and all who read this post that there are no biblical reasons why the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The verses used in the new testiment to support this are misunderstood and I would be happy to explain them if anyone wants to quote one to me. Or better yet, I will post all of them on this forum and explain each one, (sometime in the next few days). The official Catholic stance on this issue is this:

There is no evidence in the bible of the day being changed.
The Papacy changed the solemnity of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday by the popes authority only. He claims devine right to change anything in the bible he deems necessary. That is why the second commandment regarding idols has been removed from the ten commandments. I believe that the Sabbath in a normal bible is the fourth commandment. In a Catholic bible it now sits at # 3. To be a Cotholic is to acknowledge that the pope is the divine authority of both your soul and doctrine. Feel free to challenge me on this but I have official doctrine stamped by the papacy to support my claim. I would post it now but I don’t have it with me at this moment. Will post it later, with the resources I’m using.

A catholic bishop (can’t remember his name, but WILL post it later when I get to my notes… I’m at applebees right now 😉 ) said himself, that there is no authority in the bible to back up the change, just that the pope claims the authority to do it.

Now if your Catholic that should be fine with you because you believe in his (pope) authority to do that. If your not, then I ask you this, can you give me a good reason why you still continue to worship on Sunday? Just curious… it has always confused me, (outside of the fact that most people have the tendancy to just follow what everyone else is doing without questioning it).
Source? The only place I have ever read this is on an SDA web site.
 
You are right about the Grace. But, what is that Grace for? Why do we need it?
We also need grace to properly keep the commandments that Jesus taught. That is why Jesus suffered and died, to merit the grace that frees us from the slavery of sin, and makes it possible to obey God.

To clear up a little more.

Christians were never under the law of Moses.
If they had been, they would have had to be circumcised, and follow the whole law. Only the Isrealites were under the law of Moses.

The 10 commandments are part of the natural law, which man already knows. Thus when Cain killed Abel, he did not break the 10 commandments, the law of Moses, because they had not been written yet. He broke the natural law, a law that God puts in the hearts of everyone. Thus he knew he sinned.

We don’t need God to tell us that murder and stealing are wrong, because we can learn through our human reasoning that these are wrong.

God gave the Jews the written 10 commandments so that they could know clearly and easily the natural law
because the natural law is not always clear.

Part of the natural law is to worship God. The Jews needed a day of the week to worship, so God gave them the Sabbath as their day. The specific day of the week is NOT part of the natural law, but it is part of the ceremonial or ritual law.

When a Jew becomes a Christian he is no longer under the law of Moses. He is now under the law of Christ.
Just as when a person moves from Maryland to Mississippi, after a year or so, he is no longer under the laws of Maryland, he is no under the laws of Mississippi.

When a Jew becomes a Christian, he is still under the natural law, the moral law. Thus, Jesus did not do away with the 10 commandments, He expanded upon them.
Some examples in the bible are His teachings on adultery and murder.

But, since a Christian is now under a new covenant, and not under the Mosaic covenant, then he is no longer bound by the ceremonial and ritual laws of the old covenent. Just as the person who moved to Mississippi is no longer under the laws of Maryland.

Thus, Jesus gave new ceremonial and ritual laws, when to worship, how so worship, etc, and added them to the expanded moral law. The apostles, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, God himself, who Jesus sent, made Sunday the new day of worship.

Christians cannot make Saturday the primary day of worship, because to do so would make the law of Moses greater than the law of Christ.
 
I would like to tell you and all who read this post that there are no biblical reasons why the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. The verses used in the new testiment to support this
So, there is Scriptural support.
are misunderstood and I would be happy to explain them if anyone wants to quote one to me.
You have no teaching authority whatsoever, nor are your views superior to that of the Holy Catholic Church.
The Papacy changed the solemnity of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday by the popes authority only.
Prove this. Show us the Papal decree which suddenly - and out of the blue - changed the entire Church from worshipping on Saturday to Sunday.
He claims devine right to change anything in the bible he deems necessary.
Prove this. Provide the Papal document which so claims so that we might take a look.
That is why the second commandment regarding idols has been removed from the ten commandments.
It is a common lie that the Catholic Church “took the second commandment out of the bible.” Check these online Catholic Bibles, you’ll see the commandment still there:

New American Bible:
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus20.htm
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy5.htm

Douay-Rheims Bible:
intratext.com/IXT/ENG0011/_P1Y.HTM
intratext.com/IXT/ENG0011/_P4E.HTM
I believe that the Sabbath in a normal bible is the fourth commandment. In a Catholic bible it now sits at # 3.
The commandments are not numbered in Scripture. Go ahead, check your Bible.
To be a Cotholic is to acknowledge that the pope is the divine authority of both your soul and doctrine. Feel free to challenge me on this but I have official doctrine stamped by the papacy to support my claim. I would post it now but I don’t have it with me at this moment. Will post it later, with the resources I’m using.
Well, we do acknowledge the Pope as supreme visible head of the Church. But we have other leaders: Bishops and Councils.

Are you SDA? Don’t you give EGW divine authority over both your soul and doctrine? What about the SDA Church?
A catholic bishop (can’t remember his name, but WILL post it later when I get to my notes… I’m at applebees right now 😉 ) said himself, that there is no authority in the bible to back up the change, just that the pope claims the authority to do it.
I’ve seen this claim on some SDA TV station. But as I recall, the supposed authority was of the Catholic Church as a whole, not just the Pope.
Now if your Catholic that should be fine with you because you believe in his (pope) authority to do that. If your not, then I ask you this, can you give me a good reason why you still continue to worship on Sunday? Just curious… it has always confused me, (outside of the fact that most people have the tendancy to just follow what everyone else is doing without questioning it).
This is a very good thing for you to do. You’re SDA? Question your leaders. Do you blindly accept everything they say?

Why do you revere EGW as a prophet? Upon what authority? Is not everything you believe about the Sabbath from her viewpoint?

Is not SDAism a quasi-Christian, Judaizing heresy that follows a false prophet?

I understand your focus on the Pope, rather than the Catholic Church as a whole. It is a matter of faith for a SDA to believe that the Pope is the anti-Christ.
 
You do realize that Sunday is the First Day not the eighth day, and that First Days are spoken of in the bible, not just the number seven. Jesus is God. He rose on the First day and explained and taught EVERYTHING to His Apostles.Including when to worship.

Leviticus 23:7 **On the first day **hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’ "

Exodus 12:15 For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. **On the first day **remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel.

Leviticus 23:24 "Say to the Israelites: **'On the first day **of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts.

Numbers 28:18** On the **first day ****hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.

Matthew 28
The Resurrection
1After the Sabbath, at dawn **on the first day **of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

John 20:19

Jesus Appears to His Disciples
19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

**Acts 20:7 **

7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
 
You wouldn’t believe how much biblical evidence there is to support the first day. I have over four pages!

Genesis 1:5

God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Funny if you think about it Jesus is the light and oh look God gave us light ON THE FIRST DAY!:extrahappy:
 
Do you think they’ll change their names to First Day Adventist?
 
Jesus says other, similar things in this same passage. But, the teaching is clear: Under the Mosaic Law, people were forbidden to commit adultery and murder. However, Jesus (in the New Covenant) requires us to go further than that, for, under the Old Covenant, people would only keep the letter of these Laws and not go any deeper than that - because nothing required that they do so. For example, the Commandment “Thou shall not kill” was limited to the legal wording of the Commandment. According to the Pharisees, as long as one kept the specific legal conditions of the Commandment, one was “righteous before God.” Jesus denies this. For the Lord Jesus, the mere letter of the Law is not enough because, while the Commandment says, “Thou shall not kill,” it does not mean that you are righteous if you just beat a man within an inch of his life, just as long as you do not actually kill him. 🙂 That was never God’s intention at all. Rather, the Commandment goes much deeper than that and Christians are obligated (by their Covenant of Love with Jesus Christ) to keep the Commandment much deeper than that. However, non-Christian Jews are not. They are only bound by the specific wording of the Commandment; that is, they are bound by the letter of the law, and on a mere basis of law. Christians are bound by the righteousness of Christ Himself (to Whom the Law points) because of their Covenant of Love with Jesus Christ. See the distinction?

Now, it should be pointed out that Jesus is not saying that looking at a woman lustfully or calling your brother a fool is the very same thing as physically cheating on your wife or physically killing your brother, for the latter sins are far more serious than the former. Rather, the Lord’s point is that we are called to a righteousness and a perfection that is so high that, not only would we never commit adultery or murder, but we would not even harbor lustful or unjustly violent thoughts in our hearts; that is, we are called to avoid even those things, for the sake of our love of Jesus and our desire to be perfect as He is perfect. Again, do you see the distinction?

And this is what Jesus means when, at the beginning of the passage in Matthew 5, He says …

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish but to fulfill. …I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

In other words, the Law must be kept in a way that is greater than a mere legal observance of the Commandments. It must be exceeded by the example of Him Who embodies the Righteousness behind the Law: Jesus Christ. This is why Christians are not bound by the Law, but by the New Covenant of grace and love in Jesus Christ. Sunday, is the day the fulfillment of the New Covenant in Love – not in Law - (and an anticipation of the day of the coming of the Lord of Love in glory) when the Divine Food that binds us to this Covenant is received by those united in the fullness of His Church.

Adventists, with their strong fixation on the OT, have adopted a very legal-minded attitude toward obeying God that is far more Jewish than it is Christian. But, again, we in the New Covenant are not a people of “law,” but a people of grace who live in a Covenant based on Love. No “law” binds you or any Christian to Jesus Christ; rather, you are bound to Him by a Covenant of Faith and Love, and you obey Him because of that Covenant of Faith and Love (per Hebrews 5:9, Romans 16:26, etc). Obedience does not have to be based on Law. Obedience can be based on faith and love, and the latter is the nature of the New Covenant in Christ. This is the Good News of the Gospel, and the Adventists are largely blind to it.
Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments.” Jn. 14:15
I think He was talking about the ten commandments, all ten.
 
We also need grace to properly keep the commandments that Jesus taught. That is why Jesus suffered and died, to merit the grace that frees us from the slavery of sin, and makes it possible to obey God.

To clear up a little more.

Christians were never under the law of Moses.
If they had been, they would have had to be circumcised, and follow the whole law. Only the Isrealites were under the law of Moses.

The 10 commandments are part of the natural law, which man already knows. Thus when Cain killed Abel, he did not break the 10 commandments, the law of Moses, because they had not been written yet. He broke the natural law, a law that God puts in the hearts of everyone. Thus he knew he sinned.

We don’t need God to tell us that murder and stealing are wrong, because we can learn through our human reasoning that these are wrong.

God gave the Jews the written 10 commandments so that they could know clearly and easily the natural law
because the natural law is not always clear.

Part of the natural law is to worship God. The Jews needed a day of the week to worship, so God gave them the Sabbath as their day. The specific day of the week is NOT part of the natural law, but it is part of the ceremonial or ritual law.

When a Jew becomes a Christian he is no longer under the law of Moses. He is now under the law of Christ.
Just as when a person moves from Maryland to Mississippi, after a year or so, he is no longer under the laws of Maryland, he is no under the laws of Mississippi.

When a Jew becomes a Christian, he is still under the natural law, the moral law. Thus, Jesus did not do away with the 10 commandments, He expanded upon them.
Some examples in the bible are His teachings on adultery and murder.

But, since a Christian is now under a new covenant, and not under the Mosaic covenant, then he is no longer bound by the ceremonial and ritual laws of the old covenent. Just as the person who moved to Mississippi is no longer under the laws of Maryland.

Thus, Jesus gave new ceremonial and ritual laws, when to worship, how so worship, etc, and added them to the expanded moral law. The apostles, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, God himself, who Jesus sent, made Sunday the new day of worship.

Christians cannot make Saturday the primary day of worship, because to do so would make the law of Moses greater than the law of Christ.
Where does Jesus give us these new laws. He says:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
 
So which day was the 7th day for Moses?

I’m thinking that it giving time for rest and for God that’s the point, but, hey if were going to be legalistic about it then we better make sure we have the right 7th day.

So are we sure the modern calendar matches up with Moses’ calendar?

Chuck
 
So which day was the 7th day for Moses?

I’m thinking that it giving time for rest and for God that’s the point, but, hey if were going to be legalistic about it then we better make sure we have the right 7th day.

So are we sure the modern calendar matches up with Moses’ calendar?

Chuck
How many 7th days can there be?
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.Gen.2:1-3
God gave the Sabbath to mankind at creation for a memorial to creation.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.Ex.20:8-11
We can know which day the Sabbath is.
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luke 23:54-24:1
These verses show the sequence of days from the Friday that Christ died until the first day when he rose. Altho the calender has been changed the seven day sequence we call the week has never been compromised.
 
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