Seventh Grader Sues School Over Right to Wear Pro-Life T-Shirt

[royal_archer]

Would you feel the same way if the student was wearing a pro-choice t-shirt?

I stand by my original post. If you let one person wear a politically confrontational message on their clothing - then you have to let all the students do the same thing - and the end result could be a very tense situation.

The student and her parents likely expected this type of reaction from the school. I think they orchestrated the whole situation to get the publicity they are now receiving.

If the school policy were to ban all political statements I could see them having an issue with this shirt. However, They punnished her for something that was allowable by the school rules.

 

[royal_archer]

Dress codes – if and when they exist – must be explicit. There should be no “loopholes”, except those made by your shoelaces.

The best way to prevent “objectionable” messages is to prohibit all messages.

And the best way to enforce a dress code is to bring in school uniforms with a limited selection of items.

Not that this is a panacaea – just that if you (as a school) decide to bring in a dress code, then don’t be namby-pamby about it. To paraphrase Luther, if you’re going to restrict – restrict boldly!

The problem with that is attendance is compulsory and paying for the school is compulsory. If the school offered vouchers and allowed the students to attend a school where they and their diverse points of view are welcome it would be a different story. But because of the compulsory nature of the goverenment run schools, children are forced to be in an environment where they are not allowed to express their points of view.

 

[royal_archer]

Another example of the wisdom of Catholic schools-UNIFORMS!!! I can still remember my eighth grade teacher responding to a comment by one of the girls that the uniforms were “ugly things”. “Well, maybe they are ugly things, but you’re ALL wearing ugly things together”

I think that’s really the answer today to keep any and all message clothing out of the school environment.

Suppression of free speech is not the answer. Instead, anyone who has an issue with the pro human message should be sent to sensitivity and diversity training until they are willing to accept others with opposing points of view.

 

[royal_archer]

Abortion is a seriously divisive issue in the country and I can certainly see the wisdom of keeping students from wearing T-shirts that say anything about it in a school setting.

Would you agree with pulling all the other divisive topics out of the school as well?

 

[Christopher68]

This will be my shortest post ever.

Sorry, Sir, but you are wrong.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Obviously, my opinion is that you are the one who is wrong.

 

[rpp]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Obviously, my opinion is that you are the one who is wrong.

In order for your position to make logical sense, tee-shirts with any kinf of message or clothing that displayed any type of brand should be forbidden. After all, a student might be upset if another student wore a North Face coat and his father worked for Columbia Sportswear.

 

[tcurrey]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Obviously, my opinion is that you are the one who is wrong.

Look, you’re arguing that if every child in the school wore a shirt representing their respective positions, because this is such a charged and divisive issue, that chaotic conflict would likely ensue. But the fact of the matter is, that they didn’t…and they won’t. It’s unlikely, and, for that matter, unreasonable to suggest that this would ever happen. As Catholics, we should always employ faith and reason. And, furthermore, you know as well as I do, that if the shoe had been on the other foot, it would have been a completely different issue. And even if action had been taken, it would not have been handled nearly as brazenly or with as much contempt as in this case.

Let’s be logical, if the administration that “caught” her had been of the pro-life persuasion, do you think they would have reacted the way they did? If the allegations as to how things were handled is correct, then this case is beyond merely school policy. It’s much more personal than that.

And one more thing…all this aside, as Christians, our faith has******* to come first to everything. This includes education and politics. If there is an issue involving moralilty, regardless of the arena in which it presents itself, we must take the side that our faith and morals oblidge us to take. I am so sick and tired of people saying,

“Well, I’m Catholic, but I don’t vote on moral issues - they don’t belong in politics.” or,

“the economy is my number one issue, not morals, but I’m Catholic.”

I don’t care what people think should or should not be on the table in the political arena. The fact is those issues are on the table, and therefore, our morals must trump our politics! Why do so many Christians have a hard time understanding this!!! ***

 

[Christopher68]

Look, you’re arguing that if every child in the school wore a shirt representing their respective positions, because this is such a charged and divisive issue, that chaotic conflict would likely ensue. But the fact of the matter is, that they didn’t…and they won’t. It’s unlikely, and, for that matter, unreasonable to suggest that this would ever happen. As Catholics, we should always employ faith and reason. And, furthermore, you know as well as I do, that if the shoe had been on the other foot, it would have been a completely different issue. And even if action had been taken, it would not have been handled nearly as brazenly or with as much contempt as in this case.

Let’s be logical, if the administration that “caught” her had been of the pro-life persuasion, do you think they would have reacted the way they did? If the allegations as to how things were handled is correct, then this case is beyond merely school policy. It’s much more personal than that.

And one more thing…all this aside, as Christians, our faith has******** to come first to everything. This includes education and politics. If there is an issue involving moralilty, regardless of the arena in which it presents itself, we must take the side that our faith and morals oblidge us to take. I am so sick and tired of people saying,

“Well, I’m Catholic, but I don’t vote on moral issues - they don’t belong in politics.” or,

“the economy is my number one issue, not morals, but I’m Catholic.”

I don’t care what people think should or should not be on the table in the political arena. The fact is those issues are on the table, and therefore, our morals must trump our politics! Why do so many Christians have a hard time understanding this!!! **

If all of our Catholic ideals were enforced by the coercive power of government, we would live under a religious theocracy. That’s certainly not what I want. Religious enlightenment is always most sincere when it’s arrived at voluntarily.

Regarding the t-shirt example from above, I don’t know if the situation would have been reversed if the shoe would have been on the other foot. I hope not. I prefer consistency, as opposed to people distorting standards to suit their own particular agenda.

 

[rpp]

If all of our Catholic ideals were enforced by the coercive power of government, we would live under a religious theocracy. That’s certainly not what I want. Religious enlightenment is always most sincere when it’s arrived at voluntarily.

Regarding the t-shirt example from above, I don’t know if the situation would have been reversed if the shoe would have been on the other foot. I hope not. I prefer consistency, as opposed to people distorting standards to suit their own particular agenda.

Yes, we a really oppressed because the government has outlawed murderm theft and assault. Do you think abortion should be illegal?

 

[tcurrey]

If all of our Catholic ideals were enforced by the coercive power of government, we would live under a religious theocracy. That’s certainly not what I want. Religious enlightenment is always most sincere when it’s arrived at voluntarily.

Regarding the t-shirt example from above, I don’t know if the situation would have been reversed if the shoe would have been on the other foot. I hope not. I prefer consistency, as opposed to people distorting standards to suit their own particular agenda.

Sorry, but it’s better to be a phony Catholic who does nothave an abortion, than a ****sincere********Catholic who does.

And, we’re not talking about all of our Catholic ideals, we are talking about one of them - the biggest one - a right to freaking life!!! And that’s not just a Catholic ideal - it’s a Christian ideal!

What you are suggesting is a “Live and let Live” sort of deal, and that is a flawed philosophy. As Catholics, we must constantly fight for what is right, as we have the fullness of truth. It is better for someone not to believe in Catholic ideals and live under them than not to believe in them and not** live under them. In other words, even if someone doesn’t believe in Catholic ideals, based on the ONE truth that exists, it is better for that nonbeliever to insincerely live under those ideals than to not live under them at all, because those ideals are right, whether they believe it or not.

I have a friend that says, “Well, I don’t believe in abortion, but it’s not my place to tell someone else what they can and can’t do.” ------Bull !!! If it’s not morally right for you, then how is it morally right for someone else? And it darn sure is your place to tell them what is right and wrong. We are called to be whitnesses to the truth! There is ONE truth! If you fail to attempt to correct your brother’s sin, then his sin is now your sin.

And, following that flawed line of thinking, would you also say then, “I don’t believe in murder, but I can’t tell someone else that they can’t do it.” That’s insane!!! No one says that! Abortion is murder. Come on people! Let’s quit twisting logic and distorting standards to suit [our] own particular agenda**

 

[Christopher68]

Sorry, but it’s better to be a phony Catholic who does nothave an abortion, than a ****sincere******Catholic who does.

And, we’re not talking about all of our Catholic ideals, we are talking about one of them - the biggest one - a right to freaking life!!! And that’s not just a Catholic ideal - it’s a Christian ideal!

What you are suggesting is a “Live and let Live” sort of deal, and that is a flawed philosophy. As Catholics, we must constantly fight for what is right, as we have the fullness of truth. It is better for someone not to believe in Catholic ideals and live under them than not to believe in them and not** live under them. In other words, even if someone doesn’t believe in Catholic ideals, based on the ONE truth that exists, it is better for that nonbeliever to insincerely live under those ideals than to not live under them at all, because those ideals are right, whether they believe it or not.

I have a friend that says, “Well, I don’t believe in abortion, but it’s not my place to tell someone else what they can and can’t do.” ------Bull !!! If it’s not morally right for you, then how is it morally right for someone else? And it darn sure is your place to tell them what is right and wrong. We are called to be whitnesses to the truth! There is ONE truth! If you fail to attempt to correct your brother’s sin, then his sin is now your sin.

And, following that flawed line of thinking, would you also say then, “I don’t believe in murder, but I can’t tell someone else that they can’t do it.” That’s insane!!! No one says that! Abortion is murder. Come on people! Let’s quit twisting logic and distorting standards to suit [our] own particular agenda

We could go back and forth ad nauseum on this issue. Suffice it to say we have very differing viewpoints on the role of government in society, as well as how government relates to religion (and vice versa). I’m not going to change your mind, and you’re not going to change mine. Let’s just leave it at that.

 

[rpp]

We could go back and forth ad nauseum on this issue. Suffice it to say we have very differing viewpoints on the role of government in society, as well as how government relates to religion (and vice versa). I’m not going to change your mind, and you’re not going to change mine. Let’s just leave it at that.

Yes, we do have differing views. On one side are the courageous who take a stand for life and the true teachings of the Church and are willing to labor and sacrifice. On the other are those who either through cowardice give in or by apathy, do nothing, or are in agreement. You have helped to clearly identify these “differing viewpoints”. I will add that one of the “viewpoints” is consistent with Church teachings and the other is utterly anti-Catholic.

 

[tcurrey]

Yes, we do have differing views. On one side are the courageous who take a stand for life and the true teachings of the Church and are willing to labor and sacrifice. On the other are those who either through cowardice give in or by apathy, do nothing, or are in agreement. You have helped to clearly identify these “differing viewpoints”. I will add that one of the “viewpoints” is consistent with Church teachings and the other is utterly anti-Catholic.

Amen!

Thank you!

 

[tcurrey]

We could go back and forth ad nauseum on this issue. Suffice it to say we have very differing viewpoints on the role of government in society, as well as how government relates to religion (and vice versa). I’m not going to change your mind, and you’re not going to change mine. Let’s just leave it at that.

Let’s.

I can rest easy knowing that I did as my Faith (I capitilize Faith for a reason) calls me to do, and whitnessed to the Truth - again sybolic capitilization.

Although, not only did you through your opinion out here, you were one of the first to do so; therefore, it’s only reasonable to assume that you should defend it, instead of “leave it at that.” With all due respect, it’s a bit of a copout.

But, nevertheless, I will honor your request. But I would like to leave you with one more thought. This is really to all of those out there who so proudly lable themselves as “liberal Catholics” - a huge oxymoron if you ask me----- “liberal” and “Catholic” are at their respective cores diametrical opposites; and therefore, it is impossible to be both…but I digress.

The Message:

Catholics, BE CATHOLIC!

“Catholic” is not a label, it’s a lifestyle. If you choose not to live or believe in ALL of the preceps of the Faith (there’s that darn symbolic capitilization again), then do not indentify yourselves as “Catholic,” because you do not share our Faith.

I hope one day, you will employ logic and reason in conjuction with the Faith instead of allowing the Faith to take a back seat to limited human understanding of the world in which live.

That’s all I got.

 

[Christopher68]

Amen!

Thank you!

I’m confused. You support using the force of government to coerce everyone to abide by Catholic values. However, a muslim in the middle east who wants to do the same thing is known as the Taliban.

I stand by my earlier comments that religious enlightenment is most sincere when it is arrived at voluntarily rather than through force. The persuasive power of the truth of our Catholicism is much more powerful than the coercive power of government.

 

[bacon_man]

Would you feel the same way if the student was wearing a pro-choice t-shirt?

I stand by my original post. If you let one person wear a politically confrontational message on their clothing - then you have to let all the students do the same thing - and the end result could be a very tense situation.

The student and her parents likely expected this type of reaction from the school. I think they orchestrated the whole situation to get the publicity they are now receiving.

They have every right to their opinion, may I refer you to Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District

 

[Christopher68]

Let’s.

I can rest easy knowing that I did as my Faith (I capitilize Faith for a reason) calls me to do, and whitnessed to the Truth - again sybolic capitilization.

Although, not only did you through your opinion out here, you were one of the first to do so; therefore, it’s only reasonable to assume that you should defend it, instead of “leave it at that.” With all due respect, it’s a bit of a copout.

But, nevertheless, I will honor your request. But I would like to leave you with one more thought. This is really to all of those out there who so proudly lable themselves as “liberal Catholics” - a huge oxymoron if you ask me----- “liberal” and “Catholic” are at their respective cores diametrical opposites; and therefore, it is impossible to be both…but I digress.

The Message:

Catholics, BE CATHOLIC!

“Catholic” is not a label, it’s a lifestyle. If you choose not to live or believe in ALL of the preceps of the Faith (there’s that darn symbolic capitilization again), then do not indentify yourselves as “Catholic,” because you do not share our Faith.

I hope one day, you will employ logic and reason in conjuction with the Faith instead of allowing the Faith to take a back seat to limited human understanding of the world in which live.

That’s all I got.

I am not a ‘liberal’. I am not a member of any political party, although I almost always vote for the Libertarian candidates.

 

[mlchance]

I’m confused. You support using the force of government to coerce everyone to abide by Catholic values.

The only person who’s mentioned government coercion positively is you. Certainly no one in this thread has advocated that the government force people to be Catholic. A few have, however, advocated the government using force to restrict students’ range of expression.

The persuasive power of the truth of our Catholicism is much more powerful than the coercive power of government.

Then you should perhaps rethink the appropriateness of the school’s actions regarding the girl and her T-shirt.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[tcurrey]

I’m confused. You support using the force of government to coerce everyone to abide by Catholic values. However, a muslim in the middle east who wants to do the same thing is known as the Taliban.

I stand by my earlier comments that religious enlightenment is most sincere when it is arrived at voluntarily rather than through force. The persuasive power of the truth of our Catholicism is much more powerful than the coercive power of government.

What I am in support of, Sir, is fighting to modify the law of the land to more closely reflect the values that I hold to be true. It’s what we are called to do as Catholics and Christians. This is how law is made - people fighting to get the law to reflect their opinions and beliefs. Even athiests and those without morals fight for this. Why else is abortion legal? Someone faught for their “right” to kill thier unborn child (roe v. wade).

When the founding fathers established the laws this Country was built on, they did so with their morals in mind, and they just so happened to be Christian morals. But some how, we have gotten away from all of those values. We have perverted and twisted the interpretation of the laws on which this country was founded to such a degree, I doubt if the fouding fathers would even recognize it now. I seriously doubt that the way most people in this country today live is what our forefathers had in mind when they wrote our constitution.

The problem is that those with morals contrary to the ones Catholics and Christians alike hold to be true, are winning the battle over how these laws are to be written, interpreted, etc. And, we are sitting back and letting them win. We are letting the minority rule the majority in this country, and it’s bull! We are letting them drag us down, instead of us bringing them up. In the words of Father John Coropi, “WAKE UP AMERICA! WAKE UP!!!”

We know that these people are wrong and these laws are detrimental to people’s spiritual well-being, yet we do nothing and chalk it up to separation of church and state. At some point, we are going to have to bring a little church back to the state. After all, when we are dead and gone, none of this political mumbo jumbo will matter, but morality will and whether or not we faught for those morals will. And, that is why, as Catholics, we must place our morals above all else - in every arena - especially politics. And, if you can’t see that, my friend, then I feel sorry for you. I really do.

Truth is truth even if no one believes it.
A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.

 

[Christopher68]

What I am in support of, Sir, is fighting to modify the law of the land to more closely reflect the values that I hold to be true. It’s what we are called to do as Catholics and Christians. This is how law is made - people fighting to get the law to reflect their opinions and beliefs. Even athiests and those without morals fight for this. Why else is abortion legal? Someone faught for their “right” to kill thier unborn child (roe v. wade).

When the founding fathers established the laws this Country was built on, they did so with their morals in mind, and they just so happened to be Christian morals. But some how, we have gotten away from all of those values. We have perverted and twisted the interpretation of the laws on which this country was founded to such a degree, I doubt if the fouding fathers would even recognize it now. I seriously doubt that the way most people in this country today live is what our forefathers had in mind when they wrote our constitution.

The problem is that those with morals contrary to the ones Catholics and Christians alike hold to be true, are winning the battle over how these laws are to be written, interpreted, etc. And, we are sitting back and letting them win. We are letting the minority rule the majority in this country, and it’s bull! We are letting them drag us down, instead of us bringing them up. In the words of Father John Coropi, “WAKE UP AMERICA! WAKE UP!!!”

We know that these people are wrong and these laws are detrimental to people’s spiritual well-being, yet we do nothing and chalk it up to separation of church and state. At some point, we are going to have to bring a little church back to the state. After all, when we are dead and gone, none of this political mumbo jumbo will matter, but morality will and whether or not we faught for those morals will. And, that is why, as Catholics, we must place our morals above all else - in every arena - especially politics. And, if you can’t see that, my friend, then I feel sorry for you. I really do.

Truth is truth even if no one believes it.
A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.

I agree with you that the Founding Fathers would be disappointed today.

If the Founders were alive today I believe they would most likely be aligned with the Libertarian Party.